San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 10:22 AM
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I currently have the 5100. But I'm trying to get rid of my monthly Comcast bill if possible. Thta's if I can get enough HD channels with an indoor antenna.
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post #362 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 10:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
Thanks Otto !

I lost 36-1 today, the signal strength is less than 1/4th. It was fine till yesterday. Who knows what the HD Gods are doing at the Sutro Tower ?

Mudit

I'm not sure about the gods at Sutro, but 36-1 is from Monument Peak, east of Fremont.

Carl
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post #363 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
My friend tried samsung amplified antenna from best buy for $100. It was okay but not that great. I was not impressed with silver sensor. I bought it from fry's for $40, tried it but returned within a day. Amazon has it cheaper though. Your best bet is to get one by one and try it out.

BTW, my friend had put the channel master CM 4228 is in his living room for about a week before we installed on the chimney. The reception was excellent in his living room, about 60-70% (hooked upto dish 811). Ofcourse, when mounted outside, he is getting 90%+ on all channels.

People have installed channel master in attic, in balcony, etc etc. It depends your location.

What HD tuner do you have right now ?

mudit

The jury is out on the 811 and 921 OTA tuners. Consensus has been that they don't measure up to the OTA tuners in the D* HD boxes. I brought my Zenith HD-SAT 520 box to a friend's house who was running a 921 E* DVR. He did a scan with each box fed from a splitter off his UHF antenna. Signal strength and lockup was better on about half the channels on my box.
Perhaps E* is getting the message. Their 921 is judged inferior to the D* HD Tivo in features and ease-of-use, and word has it that the 921 has been discontinued. To be fair, D* has announced they will be offering their own version of the HD Tivo sometime in 2005. The battle for supremacy continues. Thank goodness there is competition.

Carl
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post #364 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 11:30 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cedosada
I currently have the 5100. But I'm trying to get rid of my monthly Comcast bill if possible. Thta's if I can get enough HD channels with an indoor antenna.

try the silver and then the samsung amplified. but DONT get any terk stuff, its p.o.s. If you have a balcony, you can also experiment with the CM 4228, its little big pizza box shape antenna, probably 4'x4'. If you can leave it on the balcony floor and get good signals from it, go for it !

I got mine from campbell fry's for $50.
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post #365 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 01:34 PM
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Mudit:

Nothing is going on at Sutro, you still have issues to work out with your installation.You have a great OTA tuner and installed it as best you could so then you may have more abstract problems. As the weather, temperature, cloud cover and humidity changes, the signal propagates differnently and you will need to rotate your antennae from time to time. I have a straight shot from Alameda to Sutro but I have to rotate my 4228 about 30 degrees different between winter and summer due to weather issues. Chris the Antennae doctor has a great disscussion about this issue in the archives of the yahoo group HDTV-in-sfbay.

Other things that may need to be looked into are height of your antennae, the wiring to your STB (new RG-6 without any splitters can make a world of difference on a borderline signal) and experiemnting with a preamp like the 7777 which has a switchable FM filter.

Without a rotor, you are not going to be able to always stay "on target" for best signal. You may alslo be able to get some of the monterey stations.

Cesosada:
The CC&R rules likely predate the changes to California state law allowing renters and owners to install roof dishes and antennae . No HOA is allowed to prevent you from installing any more. There is a great discussion by a lawyer about this on the yahoo group, including a form letter to use to "inform" your HOA you are going to exercise your legal rights and put up an antennae. Several renters and home owners have gone to court on this and have all won.


This is a partial post from June in anwswer to a guy from Almaden:
It quotes the national rule, not Ca state law.


"
The FCC ruling also allows you to put up an antenna as long as it's
mounted on an area of exclusive use or ownership. If your HOA pays for
all roof maintenance, you are likely not going to be able to mount it up
there."

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html


Seems to cover you even if you lease or rent, as long as the mount area is not a common area to your neighbors. Also no size restriction for a digital OTA antennae is defined so you can mount a 4228 if you want, but if you dont want to thumb your nose at them, maybe try the square shooter.

Skids
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post #366 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 01:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by skids
Also no size restriction for a digital OTA antennae is defined so you can mount a 4228 if you want, but if you dont want to thumb your nose at them, maybe try the square shooter.

All good info, except for this part about no restriction for a digital antenna. There is really no such thing, an antenna that receives digital signals is a UHF, VHF or combination of both.
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post #367 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 02:12 PM
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Oh yeah,

I had just read the FCC webpage and their lingo was still infecting my mind.

exempted antennae and dishes include:
"commercially-available analog and digital television antennas."

Skids
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post #368 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 03:18 PM
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Hello,
I'm looking for some help getting OTA reception - mostly Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC, less importantly KQED, WB, UPN. I've read all 19 pagesof this thread, but I don't see posts from anyone in my area - I live in the Terra Linda area of San Rafael. I am situated at the base of a hill, so I suspect I may not be able to get any reception. (For what it's worth, I can get a little reception with a portable 3 inch TV with a telescoping antenna - but it's pretty poor.)

I got DTV with HD Tivo, and a SONY KDF-60XS955 (which does have a built in tuner) about 2 weeks ago. I previosly had 2 SD receivers and a SD Tivo, so when the HD Tivo was installed he put in a 5 X 8 multiswitch, and told me I could add an antenna to the input on the multiswitch (which is upstairs, under the roof overhang), then split one of the two lines going to the Tivo and run it to the "antenna in" on the Tivo box.

Before doing this, I did try a Radio Shack indoor antenna (15-1870), hooked it to the Tivo antenna in, and did a scan for off air signal, and not surprisingly, I got none. (I didn't try hooking the antenna directly to the TV since I would like to be able to use the Tivo functions).

So what would you guys recommend? Specifically -
1. Would using the multiswitch as above be likely to work as well as a separate line for the antenna?
2. Which antenna would be best (according to antennaweb, I need a "large directional with pre amp")
3. Would the TV's tuner be any better than the Tivo's tuner? (But as I mentioned, I would prefer to be able to use the Tivo)
4. Is there anyway (other than antennaweb) to predict if I'll be able to get any reception at all?
5. Does anyone have recommendations about hiring someone for this - how much would this cost? It might be more worth it to me to spend a few dollars rather than spending many hours of trial and error; plus, climbing on my roof doesn't thrill me.

Thanks for reading this - any help would be much appreciated.

JR
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post #369 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by skids
Oh yeah,

I had just read the FCC webpage and their lingo was still infecting my mind.

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post #370 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 03:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by heywood jablomy
Hello,
I'm looking for some help getting OTA reception - mostly Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC, less importantly KQED, WB, UPN. I've read all 19 pagesof this thread, but I don't see posts from anyone in my area - I live in the Terra Linda area of San Rafael. I am situated at the base of a hill, so I suspect I may not be able to get any reception.

JR

How is your line of sight due east? You might have better luck getting Sacto station signals from Walnut Grove.
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post #371 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 03:57 PM
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JR,

The basic recommended gear setup is:

Gear: Channel Master 4228 on CM9251 rotor + Wineguard 3613 cut for 11-
13> Ch 12 joiner > new RG-6 cable> CM 7777 preamp> your HD-TIVO

This gear can be had for under $200 total. I spent about $150 on ebay for used stuff.

I can't comment on which tuner is better but in order to watch on one channel and record another I think you must go through TIVO first. Or the 5x8 multiswitch forces you to setup that way so you can switch on the fly to see what works best.

You can get this gear and advice at Lasher's in Berkeley or Schad's in San Jose. You can get some gear but no advice at Fry's and ebay.

As for install help , call Chris the Antenna doctor ( http://www.antennadoctor.com 650-548-1992). He isn't cheap but has more experience than anyone else in SF. He probably has done installs in San Rafael and can tell you what to expect. He also sells all this gear at a good price, so that saves you a trip. Expect $250- 500 for his install depending on if it's quick for him or a half day. If that freaks you out, work in the $120-160 / year you will save by not paying the cable company for locals.

Skids
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post #372 of 11206 Old 12-05-2004, 11:54 PM
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Skids,
Thanks for all the info - I checked out the antenna doctor website - they offer free estimates via email, so I may give that a try. Meanwhile I just called DTV to ask about waivers; they activated CBS (W) right away, and will submit the request for NBC (which I hear is usually denied). Oh well - at least I got one network with just a phone call.

Also (way off topic - I'll look for the right forum to post this in) for anyone who bought an HD Tivo within the last 60 days at GG - I went back there to return an extra cable and remote today, and they have it on sale for $50 off, plus a $50 gift card, and I was able to get both with their 60 day price guarantee.
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post #373 of 11206 Old 12-09-2004, 05:30 PM
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hey guys,

I'm kind of new to OTA HD. I live in Hayward. I just got VOOM since I've gone tired of Comcast. I had to cancel since I fall in the 2% category where I only get 3 local HD channels NBC, ABC and PBS. No CBS, no INHD (no Warriors, Giants, Sharks -if they were playing), no Discovery HD.

For my VOOM install they gave me a Winegard antenna, not really sure what kind it is. I'm currently getting NBC, ABC, PBS and several other channels I dont really care for. I love football and was really hoping to get FOX and CBS since I didnt get that from Comcast. I've called VOOM and told them my situation. The CSR from VOOM made a service order for an antenna upgrade. Also the installer told me that I would need a better antenna if I want to get FOX, CBS and KRON. So this is what I said to the VOOM CSR.

I guess my question is, what are my chances of getting the channels mentioned above. The installer is coming out on Tuesday, is there something I should tell him, check for or remind him before they even come out or go up the ladder.

The house is two stories high with the antenna planted just around the bottom part of the roof raised about a foot or two high. Also, I checked the signal strength of CBS and it's about 80, I guess not within the required treshold. FOX is about 71 if I remember correctly. Aside from the local channels, the satellite channels from VOOM are coming in strong and clear.

I would appreciate any opinions, hints, guesses, links or directions.

thanks guys,

baby VOOMer
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post #374 of 11206 Old 12-09-2004, 05:33 PM
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baby voomer,

the most mentioned antenna which works in the bay area is channel master CM 4228. I dont know about hayward area though. Maybe someone in that will post more info about the reception.

thanks

mudit
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post #375 of 11206 Old 12-09-2004, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by onay32
hey guys,

I'm kind of new to OTA HD. I live in Hayward. I just got VOOM since I've gone tired of Comcast. I had to cancel since I fall in the 2% category where I only get 3 local HD channels NBC, ABC and PBS. No CBS, no INHD (no Warriors, Giants, Sharks -if they were playing), no Discovery HD.

For my VOOM install they gave me a Winegard antenna, not really sure what kind it is. I'm currently getting NBC, ABC, PBS and several other channels I dont really care for. I love football and was really hoping to get FOX and CBS since I didnt get that from Comcast. I've called VOOM and told them my situation. The CSR from VOOM made a service order for an antenna upgrade. Also the installer told me that I would need a better antenna if I want to get FOX, CBS and KRON. So this is what I said to the VOOM CSR.

I guess my question is, what are my chances of getting the channels mentioned above. The installer is coming out on Tuesday, is there something I should tell him, check for or remind him before they even come out or go up the ladder.

The house is two stories high with the antenna planted just around the bottom part of the roof raised about a foot or two high. Also, I checked the signal strength of CBS and it's about 80, I guess not within the required treshold. FOX is about 71 if I remember correctly. Aside from the local channels, the satellite channels from VOOM are coming in strong and clear.

I would appreciate any opinions, hints, guesses, links or directions.

thanks guys,

baby VOOMer

Unless you're really blocked toward Sutro, you should have not problems picking up KPIX-DT 29 and KTVU-DT 56 with a 4228 antenna. Right now, your signal strength readings seem hot enough. Maybe that VOOM OTA receiver is a dud.
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post #376 of 11206 Old 12-10-2004, 10:02 AM
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i forgot to mention that i have three receivers using the same winegard antenna. would that kind of setup mean that the signal has to be distributed to the 3 receivers, making the signal weaker.

baby VOOMer
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post #377 of 11206 Old 12-10-2004, 10:28 AM
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what kind of splitter are you using ? i'd recommend using the 2-5ghz splitter. You can also try the amplied version of the splitters.
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post #378 of 11206 Old 12-10-2004, 10:34 AM
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Im not sure which one they used, and i cant really see it since it's up there on the roof. I do know that they had to come back a second time for that 'multi-switch' which the installer said costs about 85 bucks (their cost, not mine), so maybe that's the splitter.

I believe nothing is amped at this point.

i will report back on changes or improvements after tuesday, i do hope that they bring in the CM 4228. does anybody know how big this CM 4228 is?
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post #379 of 11206 Old 12-10-2004, 10:52 AM
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cm4228 is about 40"x36"
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post #380 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 03:59 PM
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Anyone having problems with KBHK (UPN) today? Specifically 44-1?

Finally got my CM4228 installed and I've got a lot better reception on many stations, but I've got 0 signal for 44-1 today. I previously had a directional yagi and got 44-1 fine, so I'm hoping the reason I'm getting 0 signal is that KBHK is not broadcasting for some reason today (Sun, 12/12/04).

Oddly, I've lost 48-1,48-2 (not that I watch them). The CM4228 is supposed to be less directional than the yagi I replaced, but that antenna pointed at 305 deg, got 48-1, 48-2 fine. Antenna web says that transmitter is at 350 degrees from my house, so I guess I could try aiming off of 305 towards 350 to see if I can get a signal.

Anyone have thoughts on whether off-aiming might help my other signals from Sutro? Maybe help with multipath or something? I think my next step will be to add the CM7775 pre-amp and see if that helps the 2-1/4-1 signal quality.

For the curious, here's my general signal strength on my HR10-250:

2-1 = 45 to 55 - decent signal, receiver shows a picture now (previous reading was 15-25, no picture at all)
4-1 = 45 to 55 - again, now I can get a picture, before I couldn't (signal was also in the 15 to 25 range)
5-1, 7-1, 9-1 = all 70 to 80+, about 10 points higher than before
11-1 = 60 to 70, about the same as before

Ken
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post #381 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 04:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kgidley
Anyone having problems with KBHK (UPN) today? Specifically 44-1?

Funny you should post this question... I just signed on to ask the same thing! I JUST installed a CM4228 today down in Morgan Hill to pick up locals OTA. I'm getting signal strength of 70-75 from KGO, KPIX, and KTVU from Sutro on my HR10-250, but 0 from KBHK. It seems really wierd to get NOTHING from channel 44-1 when I'm getting decent (dare I say GOOD) reception from three+ other stations off of Sutro.
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post #382 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 04:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by automa7ic
Funny you should post this question... I just signed on to ask the same thing! I JUST installed a CM4228 today down in Morgan Hill to pick up locals OTA. I'm getting signal strength of 70-75 from KGO, KPIX, and KTVU from Sutro on my HR10-250, but 0 from KBHK. It seems really wierd to get NOTHING from channel 44-1 when I'm getting decent (dare I say GOOD) reception from three+ other stations off of Sutro.

Good to know I'm not alone. That's great signal quality on KTVU from Morgan Hill. I'm further north (Almaden Valley) and getting only 45 to 55. Are you running a pre-amp?

Ken
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post #383 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 05:33 PM
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I too have had no signal from KBHK for over a day, so I'm thinking they've taken down their transmitter for some reason.
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post #384 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 05:43 PM
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No signal on 44-1 for me today either.

I've been having problems with 44-1 recently, but today it was absolutely zero. Previously it had been struggling up to 20 or so. I need more antenna and less trees.
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post #385 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 06:49 PM
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Yes, using a preamp. One I bought at Home Depot. The name escapes me (starts with an "L"?) but it's not a Winegard or Channel Master. It added about "10%" to my reception though, not much.

There are no houses next to me facing Sutro and no hills in the way for many miles. Just goes to show you how much a clean line of sight can make a difference!
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post #386 of 11206 Old 12-12-2004, 11:05 PM
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44-1 is dead since yesterday. Anyone getting it in the bay area ? Or is it just off the air ?
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post #387 of 11206 Old 12-13-2004, 08:24 AM
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OK, anyone else having problems with the guide data for KGO (7-1 & 7-2)? The guides shows all ABCs normal shows on 7-2, but they're actually playing on 7-1. This is causing my HR10-250 with Tivo to miss shows. Fortunately, I caught this before 'Desperate Housewifes' last night and set up a manual record. Any way to fix this on the box or do we have to report it to KGO and wait for them to fix it?

Thanks.

Ken
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post #388 of 11206 Old 12-13-2004, 08:33 AM
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I see to have the guide data for 7-1 and 7-2 reversed. I thought it was correct previously. It wouldn't be the first time D* has screwed up guide data. They still haven't got 43/60 right yet.

There seems to be a bug where they shift the guide data up one subchannel in certain circumstances, but this doesn't seem to be it.

Complaining to D* to fix it is the only thing you can do, and that may have no effect.
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post #389 of 11206 Old 12-13-2004, 09:33 AM
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My guide data for 7-1 and 7-2 is also swapped. I called D* yesterday and after getting transferred to the HD DVR "specialist" they informed me that it's the affliate's responsibility to straighten this out. I find that statement to be highly suspect.

Hopefully SOMEONE will notice the problem and fix it today.
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post #390 of 11206 Old 12-13-2004, 04:37 PM
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CBS DD2.0 and ABC DD5.1 ?

Does ABC (7-1) broadcasts in DD 5.1 and CBS (5-1) broadcasts in DD2.0 ?
I'm feeding my receiver the optical output from the LG LST 4200A HDTV tuner. When I listen to ABC, I see a dolby digital 5.1 stream. And I can only select either dolby digital or dolby virtual in my receiver (Sherwood 6108). And thats what it states in the manual that only these two modes are available in DD5.1 input.

But when I watch CBS, I have option to chose Dolby Prologic and Prologic II (and II's various formats, such as Matrix, Music, Movie, Custom, etc). As per the receiver manual, when the input is dolby digital 2 channels, these schemes can be selected.

Now I'm confused. I thought the HD programs were all in Dolby Digital 5.1 ? I'm talking about CBS's CSI:NY vs. ABC's Lost, both are in HD. All HD shows of CBS are in DD2.0 and all HD ABC shows are in DD 5.1.

Is it right assumption or am I missing something completely (may be need to select something on my tuner) ?

Thanks

Mudit
JohnTheDoe is offline  
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