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post #4381 of 11265 Old 05-12-2009, 06:05 PM
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Hey Chuck

Thanks for your detailed response! I hope your right about KSBW I will miss them if I can't get it after June 12. I like that they show my soap Days of Our lives two hours earlier than KNTV

As to 28 I'm sorry I didn't know there was more than one. the version I recieve is called KFTL it shows HSN during the day, religious programming in primetime and old public domain stuff late night.

I also didn't know about low power not required to switch in June so thanks for the heads up on 40. As to the other stations you mentioned I'll cross my fingers that there station and power changes will be enough to get some of them. As someone who doesn't have cable I look forward to any additions that may come my way. As a non tech person I've so far enjoyed digital and the help all of you here give me when asking stuff that probably sounds simple to all of you and am grateful you put up with someone who's not an expert
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post #4382 of 11265 Old 05-12-2009, 07:23 PM
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bettygunn,

I going to plead ignorance on KFTL. I've never seen a hint of them on 28 but I looked in the FCC database and I see they are running 90KW from some site near Daily City. They have a Construction Permit for a digital station on channel 24 but for only 2 watts! I can't imagine why they'd go to such low power. Doesn't seem likely you'll see them in Fremont.

KDTV-CA on 28 is the station I was seeing here but now that KMMW has fired up their digital transmitter on 28 just 14 miles from here KDTV-CA is history. No matter though, I can receive their main transmitter from Mt. Allison up here just fine.

Chuck


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post #4383 of 11265 Old 05-12-2009, 07:29 PM
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I think the .002 kW signal is more of a channel claim than anything else.

The FCC said something to the effect of not allowing stations to file for existing channels until they are abandoned. I don't remember exactly, but basically there's some baseline interference number they can't exceed in their application. So by filing for 2 watts, nobody else can claim the channel, but they don't exceed that interference number to KGO-DT.

I imagine once they migrate to DT-07, we'll see an application to boost it by a ton.

- Trip

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post #4384 of 11265 Old 05-12-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Does the KFSF signal get up there? If it does, is it possible they won't do anything with KDTV-CA?

- Trip

I'll bet that KFSF doesn't have much coverage up there. That area is all hills, mountains, and valleys. KDTV-CA is on a nearly 4000' mountain which should cover that area much better. I'm kind of surprised it's not at the higher location of KFTY which is very close by.

Chuck


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post #4385 of 11265 Old 05-13-2009, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

That would be interesting to see the "work-in-progress." Do you think that channel 7 will also have their "new" digital antenna along with the other broadcasters in October?
- DFGY

Yes, KGO will be getting a new antenna. When they switch their digital operation to channel 7 on June 12 they will use the antenna they're now using for analog on 7, but when the work is done on the tower that they're on the old antenna will be replaced with a new one.

During the time the antenna is being replaced, they will have to use the auxiliary antenna that's lower on the tower.

I have no idea how the two antennas (old vs new) differ. They'll both be at about the same height. According to the FCC records, the new antenna will be a few feet higher than the exisiting one.

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post #4386 of 11265 Old 05-13-2009, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I think the .002 kW signal is more of a channel claim than anything else.

The FCC said something to the effect of not allowing stations to file for existing channels until they are abandoned. I don't remember exactly, but basically there's some baseline interference number they can't exceed in their application. So by filing for 2 watts, nobody else can claim the channel, but they don't exceed that interference number to KGO-DT.

I imagine once they migrate to DT-07, we'll see an application to boost it by a ton.

- Trip

Trip has got the exact reason for the 2 watt construction permit for KFTL on channel 24. I was talking to the CE for KFTL and KMMC 40 recently and he says that they are working on an application for a power increase, but have not yet determined what power they're going to go for. They're still doing interference calculations. No hardware in place yet at Mt. San Bruno, but he is in the process of making rack space available in master control for the encoders and multiplexers that are on the way.

KMMC has some of their equipment for the switch to digital but it's not all there yet, so there's no date set for when they'll flashcut from analog to digital. He said when he got a date he'd let me know, and, of course, I'll let all of you know.

For Chuck's info, both KFTL and KMMC are located in the same building as KTSF 27 and KKPX 41 on Mt. San Bruno, about 300 feet to the northwest from KNTV 12's building and tower.

I asked about KAXT, which is analog on 22 and has a CP for digital on channel 42 from Mt. San Bruno and an application for channel 42 from Mt. Allison. He said he didn't know anything about their plans.

Also, KTVJ-LD channel 4 from Mt. Tamalpais is working on a November '09 sign on.

Has anyone heard anything on the Daystar stations, KDTS and KDAS, both going up on channel 8 on both Mt. Diablo and Mt. St. Helena?

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post #4387 of 11265 Old 05-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Has anyone heard anything on the Daystar stations, KDTS and KDAS, both going up on channel 8 on both Mt. Diablo and Mt. St. Helena?

Is KDTS going to have to shut down on June 12th since they're on 52? It's kind of strange but I can barely detect them on 52. I should be able to see anything from Stockton. I took a portable TV down there once to verify they were actually on the air and they are. I was not happy to see them with a CP for channel 8 on Mt. Diablo no matter how low power. They might cause interference to KSBW even though KSBW is very strong here.

Chuck


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post #4388 of 11265 Old 05-14-2009, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Is KDTS going to have to shut down on June 12th since they're on 52?

I don't think the low power stations and translators on channels above 51 have to shut down on June 12th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

It's kind of strange but I can barely detect them on 52. I should be able to see anything from Stockton. I took a portable TV down there once to verify they were actually on the air and they are. I was not happy to see them with a CP for channel 8 on Mt. Diablo no matter how low power. They might cause interference to KSBW even though KSBW is very strong here.
Chuck

Have you seen the signal pattern for the KDTS channel 8 coverage from Mt. Diablo? It's a figure 8 pattern with the main lobe pointing straight at San Francisco, covering the city, southern Marin County, the northern part of the San Mateo county peninsula and the east bay from Richmond to San Leandro. The other lobe reaches about as far east as I-5 northwest of Stockton.

The signal for KDAS on channel 8 from Mt. St. Helena is also directional but it doesn't have such a narrow beam. It covers north of Santa Rosa and Lake Berryessa from the coast to about the Napa County line.

I don't think either signal should bother you up there in the foothills.

Here in San Francisco we're going to lose KTXL, which we now get on 55, when they move to 40. KMMC will be blocking them for sure here, whether they're still analog or change to digital. I still get the KMMC signal fine when my antenna is pointed toward Walnut Grove. On the other hand, we might pick up KSPX on 48 when KSTS analog goes off the air.

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post #4389 of 11265 Old 05-14-2009, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

I don't think the low power stations and translators on channels above 51 have to shut down on June 12th.

Not until the new frequency owners force them off of their existing channels. We have several LP stations in the LA area above 51 which will probably remain for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see some still there next year.


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post #4390 of 11265 Old 05-14-2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Have you seen the signal pattern for the KDTS channel 8 coverage from Mt. Diablo? It's a figure 8 pattern with the main lobe pointing straight at San Francisco, covering the city, southern Marin County, the northern part of the San Mateo county peninsula and the east bay from Richmond to San Leandro. The other lobe reaches about as far east as I-5 northwest of Stockton.

Yes, I have seen it. Unfortunately the rear lobe points directly at me and Mt. Diablo is LOS even though it's 80 miles from here.

Quote:


I don't think either signal should bother you up there in the foothills.

I hope that's the case. KSBW analog is very strong here and once they get their digital transmitter switched to their omini antenna in August they should once again be strong enough to override most anything. I do get some interference from the 3 KW KBTV-CA channel 8 in Sacramento.

Quote:


Here in San Francisco we're going to lose KTXL, which we now get on 55, when they move to 40. KMMC will be blocking them for sure here, whether they're still analog or change to digital. I still get the KMMC signal fine when my antenna is pointed toward Walnut Grove. On the other hand, we might pick up KSPX on 48 when KSTS analog goes off the air.

After the transition there will be stations we'll gain and lose. It's not like the old days that you and I remember when there was no channel duplication within any distance you could possibly receive. The FCC has crammed so many stations into the band that you're lucky to even have a chance to receive a station in an adjacent market.

Chuck


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post #4391 of 11265 Old 05-15-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Hi Folks,

I just talked to engineering at KTVU and they said that their target-date for
the new digital antennas on Sutro is October 18, 2009; but, could be as early as the end-of-September, if no problems are encountered and wheather permitting...

Anyone, like myself, that finds themselves 40+ miles away from Sutro and is not currently able to receive the stations while broadcasting on their temporary antennas (due to the lower height and/or wattage), might be able to receive them after the above-mentioned date. I'm fairly certain that I'll be able to up here in Santa Rosa...- DFGY

Being up here in Santa Rosa, I too am hoping for success in getting the digital channels once the move is done. I'm on the flats near the Wells Fargo Center for the Performing Arts and was able to get some reception from time to time with an attic antenna and am hoping for that again only better.

In our sub, no one has a roof top antenna and I'm choosing to not be the first one to do it. Subdivision looks better without an accumulation of the rooftop antennas.

Brian...reporting from the left coast...
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post #4392 of 11265 Old 05-15-2009, 06:42 PM
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Subdivision looks better without an accumulation of the rooftop antennas.

And they look even better without an accumulation of houses.
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post #4393 of 11265 Old 05-15-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandude View Post

Being up here in Santa Rosa, I too am hoping for success in getting the digital channels once the move is done. I'm on the flats near the Wells Fargo Center for the Performing Arts and was able to get some reception from time to time with an attic antenna and am hoping for that again only better.

In our sub, no one has a roof top antenna and I'm choosing to not be the first one to do it. Subdivision looks better without an accumulation of the rooftop antennas.

Well, if you're getting pretty good reception on the current analog stations right now off of Sutro, you'll likely be able to get 7 on June 13 and some of the others around
October 18th. It sounds like you get a little better signal where you are, than I do. I know an attic antenna wouldn't cut it for me. But, I don't live in a subdivision, I know my legal rights, and I think my rig looks pretty cool. Some of the neighbors think it's
pretty high-tech looking. A lot of folks don't know that you can get OTA TV and they're surprised when I tell them about it... Sort of looks like an alien ray-gun array...

I have a friend in mid-town Santa Rosa, in the flat area of town and he has a new older CM-4228 on a 50ft ham tower; he doesn't get much from Sutro at the moment either...


Best of luck to you.


- DFGY
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post #4394 of 11265 Old 05-15-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Yes, KGO will be getting a new antenna. When they switch their digital operation to channel 7 on June 12 they will use the antenna they're now using for analog on 7, but when the work is done on the tower that they're on the old antenna will be replaced with a new one.

During the time the antenna is being replaced, they will have to use the auxiliary antenna that's lower on the tower.

I have no idea how the two antennas (old vs new) differ. They'll both be at about the same height. According to the FCC records, the new antenna will be a few feet higher than the exisiting one.

Larry
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post #4395 of 11265 Old 05-15-2009, 08:41 PM
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I just noticed the KQCA 46.2 movie channel; Called "This"; It's pretty good. Fun to see all those old 70's cars again... Is this a relatively new sub-channel? I hadn't noticed it before...


- DFGY
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post #4396 of 11265 Old 05-16-2009, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

I just noticed the KQCA 46.2 movie channel; Called "This"; It's pretty good. Fun to see all those old 70's cars again... Is this a relatively new sub-channel? I hadn't noticed it before...
- DFGY

Came on two to three months ago.

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post #4397 of 11265 Old 05-16-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Came on two to three months ago.

Larry

That would be just about right. I left the Sac. stations alone for about 2 months here. I still haven't figured out what happened in each case; but, I wasn't getting a few of them - all of a sudden, after Feb. 17th. Now I'm getting all of them once again at about the same signal strengths as before... KVIE came back too...
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post #4398 of 11265 Old 05-16-2009, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

That would be just about right. I left the Sac. stations alone for about 2 months here. I still haven't figured out what happened in each case; but, I wasn't getting a few of them - all of a sudden, after Feb. 17th. Now I'm getting all of them once again at about the same signal strengths as before... KVIE came back too...

DFGY - What type of antenna are you using? I also live in Santa Rosa - northeast - and I have my indoor antenna pointed south through a big picture window. I am able to get the VHF-HI stations and KNTV Digital 12 with a Yagi I built. Channel 36 and DTV41 (65) are also easy to get but I am getting spotty results from the SF stations using Sutro tower. On a good day I receive DTV12/19/23/27/29/36/39/41; on a bad day I get
DTV12/23/36/41.
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post #4399 of 11265 Old 05-16-2009, 10:47 PM
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i was watching the DTV information special, and thanks to KNTV for sending the DTV Transition analog shutoff schedule on June 12th.

so here is our DTV transition analog shutoff schedule on June 12th:

2 KTVU (Fox) - 6PM-Midnight
3 KCRA (NBC) - 6AM-Noon
4 KRON (MyNetworkTV) - 6PM-Midnight
5 KPIX (CBS) - Noon-6PM
6 KVIE (PBS) 6PM-Midnight
7 KGO (ABC) - 6PM-Midnight
8 KSBW (NBC) - Noon-6PM
9 KQED (PBS) - 6PM-Midnight
10 KXTV (ABC) - 6PM-Midnight
11 KNTV (NBC) - Noon-6PM
13 KOVR (CBS) - 6PM-Midnight
14 KDTV (Univision) - 6PM-Midnight
19 KUVS (Univision) - 6PM-Midnight
22 KRCB (PBS) - 6PM-Midnight
26 KTSF (Ind.) - 6PM-Midnight
29 KSPX (ION) - 6PM-Midnight
31 KMAX (The CW) - 6PM-Midnight
32 KMTP (Ind.) - 6PM-Midnight
40 KTXL (Fox) - 6PM-Midnight
42 KTNC (Ind.) - Midnight-6AM
44 KBCW (The CW) - 6PM-Midnight
48 KSTS (Telemundo) - Noon-6PM
54 KTEH (PBS) - 6PM-Midnight
58 KQCA (MyNetworkTV) - 6PM-Midnight
64 KTFK (TeleFutura) - 6PM-Midnight
65 KKPX (ION) - 6PM-Midnight
66 KFSF (TeleFutura) - 6PM-Midnight
68 KTLN (Ind.) - 6PM-Midnight
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post #4400 of 11265 Old 05-16-2009, 11:16 PM
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so I wonder what the schedule is for the shifts in frequency for the digital channels?

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post #4401 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 12:36 AM
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Thanks to "nbcnewsclips" for the analog shutdown times, but they don't agree with what the stations submitted to the FCC. In their report on analog termination, stations had to indicate what day and what part of the day they are going to turn off their analog transmitter. For the day part they could select:
A - 12 midnight to 6 am
B - 6 am to 12 noon
C - 12 noon to 6 pm
D - 6 pm to midnight
All stations in this area except for KQET, which signed off on May 9th, said they would end analog service on June 12th. For the day part, almost all stations indicated D, with a few exceptions:
KTNC 42 selected A
KCRA 3 selected B
KPIX 5, KSBW 8, KNTV 11 and KSTS 48 selected C.

According to the staff at KGO, they don't plan to shut down until 11:59 pm.

So who's right? Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Only three stations have indicated that they're going to do Nightlight Service:
KCRA 3, KVIE 6 and KNTV 11

To answer "avnstf's" question, according to a report I read, digital channel changes cannot be made until after 12:01 am on June 13. Stations have to wait until the end of the analog shut down period, which ends at midnight, and then they can make their channel change.

KTVU and KRON will probably be off the air for a few hours as they have to change the wave guide connections and antenna inputs to new transmitters. KGO should make the change quickly, as they have separate transmitters for channel 7 analog, channel 7 digital and channel 24 digital. They just have to turn off the channel 7 analog, turn off the channel 24 digital, switch the channel 7 antenna to the channel 7 digital transmitter and come back on the air. It took them about five minutes to do this when they did their overnight tests. KTNC on Mt. Diablo should be ready to go on channel 14 with the flick of a switch. They've been off the air with digital since January, so we should see them shortly after midnight.

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post #4402 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

To answer "avnstf's" question, according to a report I read, digital channel changes cannot be made until after 12:01 am on June 13. Stations have to wait until the end of the analog shut down period, which ends at midnight, and then they can make their channel change.

KTVU and KRON will probably be off the air for a few hours as they have to change the wave guide connections and antenna inputs to new transmitters. KGO should make the change quickly, as they have separate transmitters for channel 7 analog, channel 7 digital and channel 24 digital. They just have to turn off the channel 7 analog, turn off the channel 24 digital, switch the channel 7 antenna to the channel 7 digital transmitter and come back on the air. It took them about five minutes to do this when they did their overnight tests. KTNC on Mt. Diablo should be ready to go on channel 14 with the flick of a switch. They've been off the air with digital since January, so we should see them shortly after midnight.

Larry
SF

Thanks for the info...I guess that for me the afternoon of June 13 will be rescan time for my 2 units! (That plus figuring out whatever is happening with their TVGOS programming...) Tony

OTA only. For signal strength at your location:
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post #4403 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wm_tell1 View Post

DFGY - What type of antenna are you using? I also live in Santa Rosa - northeast - and I have my indoor antenna pointed south through a big picture window. I am able to get the VHF-HI stations and KNTV Digital 12 with a Yagi I built. Channel 36 and DTV41 (65) are also easy to get but I am getting spotty results from the SF stations using Sutro tower. On a good day I receive DTV12/19/23/27/29/36/39/41; on a bad day I get
DTV12/23/36/41.

Hey there wm_tell1,

It's nice to hear from some of the SR folks; I knew there were some out there

Here's a link to my rig.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15636184

I'm over in the south-east corner, myself. I have a bit of Sonoma Mtn. in front of me when pointed at Sutro.

That's not too shabby for an indoor antenna. I noticed that you didn't list TV50 DT-32.
I don't get a lock on that. I get db-levels in the 80% range, which is excellent, but no quality-level (0 - 2%). I don't quite understand why. I sent their engineering dept. an
email the other day. It's not a big deal, as that station obviously has some management issues; based on the programming descisions I've observed... But, it's strange because I used to get TV-50 (analog) with rabbit ears alone...

No Sacramento stations? You might if you put your antenna high in the air and point it south-east.

I don't have locks on any of the Sutro digitals (at the moment), they're too low on the tower and/or power is too low. But, I do see signal from all of them and was able to lock KMTP and KGO at about 4 am in the morning about 6 months ago...

My rig is VHF-high and UHF only, so here's my (English) list:
KCRA, KQCA, KSPX, KVIE, KTXL, KXTV
KNTV, KKPX
KRCB
KGO 7 ANALOG, KQED 9 ANALOG, KSBW 8 ANALOG

I get much better reception at night and early mornings, before the sun comes up. Some stations
are marginal during mid-day, which is always the worst reception time for me. Wintertime, and overcast days are always better for me (less static) than sunny blue-sky days; And I get some aircraft multi-path from the small planes, although it's temporary...

We should both fare better in late September - mid-October on the Sutro stations.


- DFGY
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post #4404 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

I noticed that you didn't list TV50 DT-32.
I don't get a lock on that. I get db-levels in the 80% range, which is excellent, but no quality-level (0 - 2%). I don't quite understand why. I sent their engineering dept. an
email the other day. It's not a big deal, as that station obviously has some management issues; based on the programming descisions I've observed... But, it's strange because I used to get TV-50 (analog) with rabbit ears alone...

You've lost TV50 since they went to digital channel 32. That is in direct conflict with KMTP, analog 32. In a few weeks when KMTP turns off their analog transmitter, you will begin receiving TV50 again. Just one of those things....

Bobby 

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post #4405 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Well, if you're getting pretty good reception on the current analog stations right now off of Sutro, you'll likely be able to get 7 on June 13 and some of the others around
October 18th. It sounds like you get a little better signal where you are, than I do. I know an attic antenna wouldn't cut it for me. But, I don't live in a subdivision, I know my legal rights, and I think my rig looks pretty cool. Some of the neighbors think it's
pretty high-tech looking. A lot of folks don't know that you can get OTA TV and they're surprised when I tell them about it... Sort of looks like an alien ray-gun array...

I have a friend in mid-town Santa Rosa, in the flat area of town and he has a new older CM-4228 on a 50ft ham tower; he doesn't get much from Sutro at the moment either...- DFGY

Actually, I'm not even trying for the analog signals. Gave up on that when I got DishNetwork back when I was living in Fremont. I had a clear view of Sutro from there but wanted more than just what OTA could provide.

I took a look at your pic of your setup and am amazed. I wouldn't even consider doing that here although I know I could legally do it. I did experiment with a 4228 outdoors on a pole on the pack of the house and could get reception somewhat at the time but I wanted to be hidden from view from the street and couldn't get it high enough for really good reception.
Also tried it in the attic but found that my old UHF/VHF up there worked better. Damn struggle getting it up there.

Best reception I got ever from up in the attic was from KNBC when it was transmitting from MtLomaPrieta, 108 miles from here.

Brian...reporting from the left coast...
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post #4406 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

You've lost TV50 since they went to digital channel 32. That is in direct conflict with KMTP, analog 32. In a few weeks when KMTP turns off their analog transmitter, you will begin receiving TV50 again. Just one of those things....

Well, maybe... but I have a 91XG, which has pretty good backward rejection and when I point to TV-50 it's north-east and KMTP is south. I don't really recieve KMTP very well when I point to it. It's very spotty and full of snow.

I would think that the 91XG would be rejecting it... But, I can't think of any other reason why this is happening, so maybe you're right...

I'll keep an eye on it after June 12.
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post #4407 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Well, maybe... but I have a 91XG, which has pretty good backward rejection and when I point to TV-50 it's north-east and KMTP is south. I don't really recieve KMTP very well when I point to it. It's very spotty and full of snow.

I would think that the 91XG would be rejecting it... But, I can't think of any other reason why this is happening, so maybe you're right...

I'll keep an eye on it after June 12.

I have lots of experience up here with an analog station on the same channel as a digital station. If the analog station is strong enough to synch a picture and hear sound, then it is wiping out the digital station. If the analog picture is not synched and there's no sound then the digital station can often be received.

Two digital stations on the same channel are even worse. I have a pair of 91XGs and since KFTY moved to 32, I can hardly ever receive KION anymore. Even with all that rejection, enough of KFTY leaks through to effectively raise the noise floor a little.

Chuck


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post #4408 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

Hey there wm_tell1,

It's nice to hear from some of the SR folks; I knew there were some out there

Here's a link to my rig.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15636184

That is a sweet setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

I'm over in the south-east corner, myself. I have a bit of Sonoma Mtn. in front of me when pointed at Sutro.

That's not too shabby for an indoor antenna. I noticed that you didn't list TV50 DT-32.

I have a couple of prototype indoor antennas that I designed and fabricated. I built a VHF-HI Yagi that locks solidly on analog KGO7,KQED9 and KNTV11 and DTV12. I can see over to Kenwood and Sugarloaf is directly between my location and the Sacto stations. I have measured the Sacto stations and KSBW8 and they are about -97dBm - way to low to view. I am considering adding a low pass filter to eliminate KRCB on the VHF-HI and adding a preamp and that might do the trick.

I also built a UHF Yagi that works pretty well but I am cloning a CM4221 using Mclapp's design and hope that will be my UHF solution.

I will ruggedize the antennas when I am satisfied with their performance and mount them outdoors. That should get me a few dB and I will also be using the LMR400 - it is not cheap but it is very low loss as you know.

KFTY50 (DT-32) is near improssible to receive. My house and two hills stand between the antenna and KFTY50's transmitter on Mount St Helena but it's not a big deal since they have zero local programming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post

I don't get a lock on that. I get db-levels in the 80% range, which is excellent, but no quality-level (0 - 2%). I don't quite understand why. I sent their engineering dept. an
email the other day. It's not a big deal, as that station obviously has some management issues; based on the programming descisions I've observed... But, it's strange because I used to get TV-50 (analog) with rabbit ears alone...

No Sacramento stations? You might if you put your antenna high in the air and point it south-east.

I don't have locks on any of the Sutro digitals (at the moment), they're too low on the tower and/or power is too low. But, I do see signal from all of them and was able to lock KMTP and KGO at about 4 am in the morning about 6 months ago...

My rig is VHF-high and UHF only, so here's my (English) list:
KCRA, KQCA, KSPX, KVIE, KTXL, KXTV
KNTV, KKPX
KRCB
KGO 7 ANALOG, KQED 9 ANALOG, KSBW 8 ANALOG

I get much better reception at night and early mornings, before the sun comes up. Some stations
are marginal during mid-day, which is always the worst reception time for me. Wintertime, and overcast days are always better for me (less static) than sunny blue-sky days; And I get some aircraft multi-path from the small planes, although it's temporary...

The reception is worse during the summer due to the increase in thermal noise which ruins your signal-to-noise ratio. It is not a big issue on analog - just a bit of snow - but the digital dropouts are a pain.

The English version of my best days are
VHF-HI - From the VHF-HI Yagi -
Analog KGO,KQED,KNTV
Digital KNTV

UHF - From the UHF Yagi -
Analog KRCB,KBCW
Digital KOFY,KRCB,KTSF,KPIX,KICU,KCNS, and KION. I expect to get better results when I finish building the Mclapp.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY View Post


We should both fare better in late September - mid-October on the Sutro stations.


- DFGY

Yes, the reception should improve considerably after the Sutro conversion. You may be able to improve your existing UHF performance by adding another XG91 or adding sections as suggested by another forum member. I am thinking that a double stack ( stack 2 horizontally and 2 vertically) would add 6dB of gain and the horizontal stack would eliminate multi-path while the vertical stack would minimize the airplane dropout.
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post #4409 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 04:21 PM
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It is pretty hot today in Santa Rosa but I decided to do a channel scan with my Sansonic FT-300A and surprisingly got a 30% signal strength on both DTV56 and DTV57. Has anyone else noticed a stronger signal today on either of these channels? I am wondering if they are doing any work on their antennas - doesn't make a lot of sense since they're both vacating these channel assignments.
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post #4410 of 11265 Old 05-17-2009, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wm_tell1 View Post

That is a sweet setup.


I have a couple of prototype indoor antennas that I designed and fabricated. I built a VHF-HI Yagi that locks solidly on analog KGO7,KQED9 and KNTV11 and DTV12. I can see over to Kenwood and Sugarloaf is directly between my location and the Sacto stations. I have measured the Sacto stations and KSBW8 and they are about -97dBm - way to low to view. I am considering adding a low pass filter to eliminate KRCB on the VHF-HI and adding a preamp and that might do the trick.

I also built a UHF Yagi that works pretty well but I am cloning a CM4221 using Mclapp's design and hope that will be my UHF solution.

I will ruggedize the antennas when I am satisfied with their performance and mount them outdoors. That should get me a few dB and I will also be using the LMR400 - it is not cheap but it is very low loss as you know.

KFTY50 (DT-32) is near improssible to receive. My house and two hills stand between the antenna and KFTY50's transmitter on Mount St Helena but it's not a big deal since they have zero local programming.


The reception is worse during the summer due to the increase in thermal noise which ruins your signal-to-noise ratio. It is not a big issue on analog - just a bit of snow - but the digital dropouts are a pain.

The English version of my best days are
VHF-HI - From the VHF-HI Yagi -
Analog KGO,KQED,KNTV
Digital KNTV

UHF - From the UHF Yagi -
Analog KRCB,KBCW
Digital KOFY,KRCB,KTSF,KPIX,KICU,KCNS, and KION. I expect to get better results when I finish building the Mclapp.





Yes, the reception should improve considerably after the Sutro conversion. You may be able to improve your existing UHF performance by adding another XG91 or adding sections as suggested by another forum member. I am thinking that a double stack ( stack 2 horizontally and 2 vertically) would add 6dB of gain and the horizontal stack would eliminate multi-path while the vertical stack would minimize the airplane dropout.

That's a cool way to go; building your own. I admire that. I've had TV antennas all my life, but I've never built one from scratch.

Sounds like KRCB is too powerful for you? I'm right next to it, with a 23db amp and I don't have any problems with bleedover or overpowering.

I really like the LMR-400-75. Excellent cable. You can get it by the foot at:
http://www.rfparts.com; I highly recommend the stripping tool ST-400-EZ and
the TM EZ connectors, which are more expensive than the cable run! Hutton Communications: http://www.hol4g.com/mk/index.aspx

If you ever do get that quad stack of 91XG's send me a pm or something will you?
I'd really like to find out how that went. Not too many out there... The XG's are
very light weight; their the one's to use for that. You should talk to Calaveras; I think he said he wanted to set up a quad for himself.

I think the easiest way to improve my reception would be to raise the antenna up
a little more. I'm already up at about 35 feet; if I want to go higher I'm supposed to
contact PRMD and get their approval...

Calaveras has a nice dual 91XG setup. I worry about them being a little too narrow. KVIE is sensitive to 1 - 2 degrees for me; and that's with one 91XG...

I think you're right on the money with the thermal-noise. That's exactly what I get too. But, on an overcast or foggy day it really cuts that static.

The aircraft multi-path, is, I think, a combination of the antennas and the tuner in the TV set. It'll be interesting to see how much the tuner's improve five or six years from now...


Well, good luck to you post-transition,

- DFGY
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