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San Francisco, CA - OTA

2M views 20K replies 1K participants last post by  jamesm113 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of upgrading to an HDTV and have some questions for those getting OTA HD in the Bay Area.


I live in Berkeley and it looks like while I get most of my networks from SF, I need to also point toward San Jose, 57 miles away, to get NBC. I've been looking at the Channel Master antennaes, but I can't tell if you have one station in the blue range and the rest in the green or yellow ranges, whether you can just point your directional antennae at the blue and pick everything else up off the rest of the antennae, or whether you'd need two directionals or one that can point in two directions.


Also, on antennaeweb, it has a column that's supposed to read "live now" for digital channels that are being broadcast, yet none of the bay area channels say "live now." Most are blank. I take it for granted that the digital broadcasts are available right? You can't get HDTV from an analog broadcast, can you, and I know that's available OTA. Also, I assume that all the digital channels are UHF, so I need to buy the antennae that can reach 60 miles on UHF to get NBC, don't I?


If I go the HD route, I'll be using Directv plus OTA, so I will need to get all the networks in HD to really make the investment worthwhile (as directv will give me either none, or only CBS HD). I'd appreciate if anyone in Berkeley, Oakland, Albany, etc. can sound off on their OTA experiences.


Thanks for the input.

UPDATE: I was asked to add the info below to my post. I now live in a hilly area in Oakland and can't get OTA reception any more. Too bad for me.


Viewers in the San Francisco Bay Area will find the following sites very useful for finding local digital stations:


Bay Area DTV - HDTV Channel List - http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html


FCC DTV Reception Maps - http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Locate TV stations available at your address and compute expected signal strength and directions -
http://www.tvfool.com/
 
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#3,121 ·
Dawn--


The problem with "center channel" sound arises when somebody (at the station?) forgets to throw the switch for including the 5.1-channel sound track. As bnwbass says, it's happened before on most (maybe even all) of the HD channels over the past few years. Just another aspect of living on the bleeding edge of DTV. (But I'm hopeful that the local and network engineers will all soon have climbed far enough up the DTV learning curve to put this particular issue behind us!)


When you notice the problem, you may be able to get a realtime fix by calling the station to report it.
 
#3,122 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson /forum/post/12823038


The 4228 has very high gain, which helps it discriminate against signals from slightly different directions. An 8VSB tuner needs to have one of the received signals a certain number of dB stronger than the others on the same frequency or it cannot reliably handle it. If the actual signal strength of that beam from the antenna overloads the input stage of the tuner, then the solution is to insert attenuation in the signal path.

That is a very good point.


If multi-path is a problem and if an attenuator can lower the signal to an acceptable level for the tuner, then it is probably better than a rabbit ear/loop combo that is picking up reflections off buildings, etc.


Would a 4221 be a good choice close to the tower? Is the 4221 (or 4220) good enough to receive KNTV VHF-12 at this range? I also see that KGO is moving back to VHF-7 next year, but the 2 or 4 bays don't really do well for 7-10.


What would you use for an attenuator? I have some cable TV attenuators of 10 and 20dB, but would a regular splitter be better (even if it only will reduce the signal by ~3.5dB)?
 
#3,124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson /forum/post/12823836


Dawn--


The problem with "center channel" sound arises when somebody (at the station?) forgets to throw the switch for including the 5.1-channel sound track. As bnwbass says, it's happened before on most (maybe even all) of the HD channels over the past few years. Just another aspect of living on the bleeding edge of DTV. (But I'm hopeful that the local and network engineers will all soon have climbed far enough up the DTV learning curve to put this particular issue behind us!)


When you notice the problem, you may be able to get a realtime fix by calling the station to report it.

Thanks bnwbass and TPeterson. Suggesting I call the station when this happens ("somebody . . . forgets to throw the switch") reminds me of stories my grandpa told about the early days of radio and telephone in rural Alabama. They could contact the broadcaster (radio) or "central" (telephone) to get fixes, and they even knew their names because they were all neighbors!


It seems we still have a little bit of that in post-modern, corporate Amerika. Thank goodness.
 
#3,125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesharkman /forum/post/12806415


... did i read you correctly when you said that i will basically get either "no" video or great video on the digital channels? kntv was not clear at all, but i just assumed that to be due to the vhf nature of that one station.

I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said "no" video or "great" video. With a digital tuner, as you have found out, you either get a picture or you don't. There's no varying level of picture quality, based on signal strength, like there is with analog TV. When you get a picture you get what the station is transmitting. Most of the time it's "great" video... no ghosts, no RF interference, no snow or colored confetti, etc., like you can get with analog.


If the station is sending out HD, the quality will be top notch, but if the station is sending out SD or poor quality video, like an out of focus news clip, then you'll see poorer quality. I saw a station with ghosts the other day, but they were transmitting the ghosts from their microwave feed. It wasn't due to my reception. It has nothing to do with your antenna, your signal strength or whether it's VHF or UHF. It all depends on what's being transmitted by the station.


A comparison would be if listening to an FM radio station you can hear excellent quality music from a CD or scratchy poor quality music from an old 78. The signal hasn't changed... just the content.


You said that KNTV was not clear at all. How about during an HD broadcast? KNTV should then look as good as KTVU. Sometimes KTVU can not look that clear either when sending out a lousy news video, for example. All stations transmit poor video sometimes. Look at KPIX... their HD broadcasts look fantastic, but it you look at the local news broadcasts, their video looks pretty bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesharkman /forum/post/12806415


i'm behind tower market, so close to sutro and am i correct in assuming that if i use a 'real' antenna (ie a channel master 4228), i'll most likely get all of the networks as crisp as my fox channel was today?

shark

We're almost neighbors! I'm on the hill between the Castro and Noe Valley, directly east of Sutro Tower and only 3/4 of a mile away from it. I use a CM 4228 and have had excellent results. There is only one problem with it. I cannot find one position where I can get ALL of the stations from Sutro. I'm speaking of the digital stations here. The antenna is on a rotor so I can change directions easily, and doing that I can get all of the stations.


The ones I have the most problems with are 4, 5 and 9. I can get 2, 7, 32, 44 and 66, with just about any westerly direction. 20, 38 and 43 need a little more fine tuning on the direction, but aren't too hard to bring in, but 4, 5, and 9 can be really touchy. A couple degrees one way of the other can make the difference between a signal of 90 or nothing! I also get more break up on these three due to varying multipath problems, so I suspect that multipath is the cause of most the of the problems on these channels.


Turning the antenna toward Mt. San Bruno I get 11, 26 and 65 without any problems. Turning it northwest I get 68 solid. Turning it southeast I get 14, 36 and 48 solid about 98% of the time. They break up occasionally. 54 is only received on rare occasions.


If I turn the antenna east I get 42 from Mt. Diablo, but have never been able to get 64, and it's also on Mt. Diablo. ???


With the antenna east northeast I get KMAX 31 out of Sacramento all the time, but haven't got any of the other stations from up there.


So that I have reliable signals for recording with my DVR, I don't use the CM4228. I bought a small Antennas Direct SR-15 (see http://www.antennasdirect.com/uhf.html ) pointed it up at an angle directly at the digital antenna on Sutro Tower, added a VHF antenna for channel 12 and pointed it at Mt. San Bruno and tied the two antennas together with a Jointenna. (You can search Google for a variety of places that sell it.)


With this combination of SR-15 and VHF antenna, I get solid signals on all Sutro channels except 4, as well as KNTV. KRON4 can be fine, but it breaks up occasionally. I have to make sure I have this combination fed to the DVR receiver all the time so that I get reliable recordings. If I want to watch one of the other stations on Mt. San Bruno or in the other locations, then I use the CM4228, but I switch back to the combo when I'm done. I use an A-B switch.


So, in conclusion, the CM4228 will work close in to Sutro, but you have to adjust it for the various stations... so you need a rotor. It works great for more distant stations. For Sutro only, try a smaller antenna, like the SR-15, and you'll have better overall results.


Larry

SF
 
#3,126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by btran88 /forum/post/12814459


Onair GT is usb hd/qam capable tuner. I'm on 2nd floor of 5 stories, looks like I'm facing West toward North Beach. Yes I did scan for ALL stations but the only ones that showed up was analog cable. I don't have outside roof top antenna, can this be the cause? I find it hard to believe that being 4 miles away from towers and signal is not strong enough to pick up. What should I do now? Thank you.

As TPeterson said, it sounds like you've got multipath problems with too many strong signals bouncing around off the nearby buildings and all getting into your antenna. When you did the check of the analog channels, did you see a lot of ghosts or multiple images? If so, that's multipath.


A directional antenna on the roof would solve your problem. Like I wrote above, the CM4228 works fine, but you need a rotor as it won't get all of the stations from any one direction. Even if you don't have a DVR or Tivo, it's a pain having to tweek the antenna every time you change channels. You might want to get the SR-15 that I'm using. That's proven to work well for me, so should work for you too. It's a small, sturdy antenna and easy to install.


Larry

SF
 
#3,127 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbuLafya /forum/post/12817380


Was there no CBS 5.1 OTA broadcast during Monday prime-time or did my set get crazy?


Is there a website with scheduled outages, e.g. for broadcast antenna maintenance?

I didn't watch channel 5 Monday until 11 pm, so I can't answer your first question for prime-time. 5.1 was fine at 11, though. Have you been able to pick up their signal since then?


A website for outages would be a great idea, but I don't know of any. KQED sends out notices to their email schedule subscribers when KQED is off, but it's often after the fact. KGO used to have an antenna status note on their website, but it's no longer there. An outage site would be very helpful!


Larry

SF
 
#3,128 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/12837225


I didn't watch channel 5 Monday until 11 pm, so I can't answer your first question for prime-time. 5.1 was fine at 11, though. Have you been able to pick up their signal since then?


A website for outages would be a great idea, but I don't know of any. KQED sends out notices to their email schedule subscribers when KQED is off, but it's often after the fact. KGO used to have an antenna status note on their website, but it's no longer there. An outage site would be very helpful!


Larry

SF

Thanks for your reply.


5.1 remained unavailable (south bay), in the few times I checked, all through Monday night, Tuesday morning. When I checked again Tuesday evening it was back. The analog ch.5 was available all that time.

The way it disappeared completely/replaced by the Analog ch.5 on my TV's channel list, instead of merely displaying "weak signal" message, made me suspect a defect in the set.
 
#3,129 ·
So, after much effort, I have raised the roof antenna another 7 feet and added a mast-mount amplifier. Just moments before I was about to raise the mast this afternoon, the wind stirred up pretty good, making for a hair-raising mast-raising
. So now my mast is 20 feet long, which puts it about 30 feet above ground level. I think the antenna can now just peek above the second floor motel facade which is directly in my line of sight to Sutro.


My amplifier is doing something strange. Perhaps someone has a theory. When I had the antenna off the mast, I laid it on the roof pointing roughly at Sutro, added the amplifier and experimented with the gain control. With the antenna laying on the roof, the signal was, of course, weaker, and as I increased the gain, I could watch the signal increase at the TV. Some channels more than others, but a couple not much if at all. However, once the antenna was back up on the mast, the gain control on the amplifier now seems to be acting opposite. When set to MIN (which is actually 20 dB amplification) if the TV's signal meter shows, say, 70%, if I turn the gain all the way up, the signal actually goes down by up to 10 - 20 - even 30 percent, sometimes enough to cause loss of signal lock! WTF? Why would it act this way on the pole when it acted opposite (and more logically) when the antenna was laying on the roof? So now I am not sure what I actually have in the way of amplification! Any suggestions on why increasing my gain control would actually lessen my signal?



I am beginning to suspect that wind, not rain, was/is the cause of much of my cutting in and out of signal. Recall that my woes began a couple weeks ago when it was very rainy, and windy. Today it was quite windy when I put the mast up, and as soon as it was up I went inside to check the signal. It seems I have quite a picky antenna in that, even though here in Sunnyvale I am far away from Sutro, just a couple or few degrees of antenna rotation has a dramatic effect on the signals I get from the various channels coming from Sutro. I was also seeing the signal jumping somewhat and intermittently losing lock on some channels. Between that and the amp acting ass-backwards, I was getting very depressed after all my efforts to improve upon a situation seemed to be in vain. An hour or two later, the signals became rock steady and the TV was no longer cutting in and out of certain channels. That is when it dawned on me that the wind had also died down completely. When it was windy I could see the antenna moving back and forth ever so slightly in the wind. Could the wind causing the antenna to rock back and forth against the slop in the rotor gears be causing the antenna to move enough to make the antenna lose it's aim? Why should the aim be that critical from a distance of about 40-50 miles from Sutro? The only info I have to offer about my particular antenna is that it's a Radio Shack UHF-VHF with a 140" boom.


So, any ideas about the backward-acting amp, and the effects of wind on antenna signal would be enlightening. Thanks.
 
#3,130 ·
If reducing the gain increases the "signal strength", chances are very good that you've got an overloaded amplifier stage somewhere in the signal path.


Regarding sensitivity to antenna direction...haven't you been following the discussion about multipath signals and their disastrous effects on 8VSB reception? What you're seeing is very consistent with everyone else's observations here in the Bay Area multipath soup bowl. You may also find that some other aiming direction gives you overall better results than to point straight at Sutro.
 
#3,131 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson /forum/post/12844450


Regarding sensitivity to antenna direction... What you're seeing is very consistent with everyone else's observations here in the Bay Area multipath soup bowl.


If reducing the gain increases the "signal strength", chances are very good that you've got an overloaded amplifier stage somewhere in the signal path.


So if everyone else is having the same multipath problem, then I'm feeling better already, since misery loves company!



Regarding the other comment, do you mean that possibly since I raised the antenna, the raw signal is now strong enough to overload the amplifier? If so, I suppose that means turning the gain up still won't provide any signal benefit even after I split the signal five ways and add four more TV's? It would be nice if I could just turn off the amp and compare the signal, but the amp doesn't pass signal without power, so the only way to compare would be to bring the whole setup right back down and bypass the mast amp. Guess who isn't pulling the antenna back down any time soon! I'll just leave it at max cut for now.
 
#3,132 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 /forum/post/12842068


My amplifier is doing something strange. ... With the antenna laying on the roof, the signal was, of course, weaker, and as I increased the gain, I could watch the signal increase at the TV. ... However, once the antenna was back up on the mast, the gain control on the amplifier now seems to be acting opposite. When set to MIN (which is actually 20 dB amplification) if the TV's signal meter shows, say, 70%, if I turn the gain all the way up, the signal actually goes down by up to 10 - 20 - even 30 percent, sometimes enough to cause loss of signal lock! ... just a couple or few degrees of antenna rotation has a dramatic effect on the signals I get from the various channels coming from Sutro. ... Could the wind causing the antenna to rock back and forth against the slop in the rotor gears be causing the antenna to move enough to make the antenna lose it's aim? Why should the aim be that critical from a distance of about 40-50 miles from Sutro? The only info I have to offer about my particular antenna is that it's a Radio Shack UHF-VHF with a 140" boom. ...

First, the "backward amp" problem. Remember, your "signal strength meter" is not really a signal strength meter... it's actually a signal quality meter. It's possible to get a higher reading with a weaker signal if there's no multipath or interference bothering the signal. So my take on the amp situation is that as you turn up the gain you're making the quality of signal worse. I would guess signal overload. ??? I don't know... but it appears that as you get more signal it's affecting the quality of the signal, so the numbers are going down. It seems to be better with the amp than without it, so I'd leave the amp on set at the least amount of gain.


An antenna with a 140" boom usually has a lot of gain and a lot of directivity, so it should be pulling in a good signal for you and should be good at rejecting the multipath reflections. The cutting in and out when it's windy says to me that the antenna is alternatively picking up and not picking up multipath signals... and, yes, a degree or two one way or the other can mean the difference between a good signal and no signal. I know from experience. See my post above to Sharkman. One or two clicks on the rotor can make the difference of perfect picture or no picture for me.


Just for the hell of it, try pointing the antenna in different directions to see if you get a better signal. I've found a more reliable signal for KTEH 54 with the antenna pointing southwest... about 80 degrees off from where I should get 54. It's still not that good, but it's better than with the antenna pointed toward Fremont where the transmitter is. I also get a very good signal from KICU 36 with my antenna pointed at 290 degrees, which is waaay off of the 120 normal setting. I get 36 at 120, so there's no need to use the reflection, but it's there.


I feel sorry for you, after all the work you've put into this project, that it's not working better, but I think you've done about all you can do. In a year the stations will be moving to their permanent digital channels and transmitting antennas, which should be better than that combined antenna they're using now. If you can wait until February of next year, I'd say hold off on doing anything and see what happens after the analog is gone and the digitals settle into their final configuration. 2, 4, 7, 8, 36 and 42 will all be transmitting on different channels, which will present totally different conditions.


Larry

SF
 
#3,133 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/12853768


Just for the hell of it, try pointing the antenna in different directions to see if you get a better signal.


OK, I will play around and point the antenna in some "illogical" directions to see if I can find a hidden "sweet" spot. I know this is OT, but when playing with my rotator control, when the control shuts of the rotor, it sends a pretty huge spike to my subwoofer which activates it's amplifier Auto-On feature and causes the subwoofer to THUMP and nearly bottom out. I grit my teeth every time it does it, and it can't be good! Is this noise going through the AC, and is there a filter which can subdue spurious AC impulse noise? I already run the subwoofer AC through a Monster Home Theatre System Power Center. Thanks.
 
#3,135 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 /forum/post/12864679


...when the control shuts of the rotor, it sends a pretty huge spike to my subwoofer which activates it's amplifier Auto-On feature and causes the subwoofer to THUMP and nearly bottom out.

I don't have any answer for that problem. You need an electrical engineer for that.


Have you found any hot spots where you get the channels better than when pointed direct at Sutro?


Larry

SF
 
#3,136 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tivoboy /forum/post/12878049


I gotta say, I am getting some pretty crappy signals today, both 2-1 and 5-1, the FOOTBALL stations for the day. antenna hasn't moved, there is a bit of overcast, but not much

I watched a teeny bit of the game on 5.1 and most of the game on 2.1 (the exciting one). All looked pretty good--with a qualification stated below.


I was especially critical of the pictures, because yesterday I hooked up my new Panasonic DMR-EZ47V (the DVDR)--my first DVD player ever! It is a DVD/VCR "upconverting" combo to go with my month-old Panasonic TH-42PZ700U plasma HDTV.


In doing so I redid my connections, which had been a coaxial from the roof antenna that attached to a splitter, with one coaxial going directly to the TV's RF-IN and the other to the (now discarded) VCR. My sole signal source for TV is OTA antenna only (no cable, no dish, etc.).


I got rid of the splitter on the coaxial cable from the roof and ran the coaxial directly to the new DVDR's RF-IN. I connected the DVDR's RF-OUT to the TV's RF-IN.


I used an HDMI cable to connect the DVDR to the TV (for upconverting and other good signals, I guess).


Finally, I used a set composite cables (red-white-yellow) to connect the DVDR's DVD/VHS COMMON OUT to the TV's INPUT 1 (Video 1 on the TV's onscreen menu). (Although I'm not sure why, except the "Quick Guide" and the HDMI of the manual showed this connection.)


So . . . the signal, which should have been better (no splitter, after all), was noticeably poorer on both the TV's digital and analog channels--and quite bad through the DVDR's tuner. Not as crisp on digital and more "ghosty" on the analog.


I gained considerable improvement by tightening the "nuts" on the DVDR's RF-IN and RF-OUT coaxial connections. (It was hard to reach and see back there in the rear of the armoire; and the armoire's back keeps me from accessing the DVDR from the rear).


Also, I was hearing a faint buzzing sound from the turned-off DVDR until I fiddled with the coaxial connection and pushed in the HMDI connection a bit harder. Something I touched made the buzz go away. (Would a loose connection buzz?)


And yet . . . and yet . . . I still have a sense that the setup I had before produced a better HD image. And KQED channel 9 analog is definitely worse, though some of the other analog channels are better.


Does anyone see any flaw in my connection setup?

Edit: Well everything was OK with today's signals until the last half hour of "Northanger Abbey," on KQED 9.1. It seems that just after 10 p.m. ALL of KQED's digital channels went out.


I will never understand the TV's signal meter. With the screen blank, the signal strength showed 92%. (That's not a typo.) Channel 11.1 was coming in perfectly at 75%. I've read here that the meter shows "quality," not strength. But how can this be?
 
#3,137 ·
If you use the composite yellow, red and white audio, cable to hook up your tv , that is most likely the cause of your poor picture. You are better off using a splitter to split the digital signal from your antenna. I have a 5 way splitter hooked up to my HDTV , satellite ota hd receiver, and get a marvelous picture. Use a splitter to your tv and let the tv tuner do what it's supposed to do. I hardly ever post here but felt compelled to lend a hand.
 
#3,138 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/12879010


Have you found any hot spots where you get the channels better than when pointed direct at Sutro?


Frankly, not being able to see Sutro from Sunnyvale, I am not sure exactly what constitutes "pointed direct" at Sutro! Today was spent getting rid of several series splitters on the other four TV's in the system, running each individual coax back to a common point where the antenna feed comes into the house, and tying all four into a single four-way splitter. Then it was off to experiment with antenna direction. First thing I learned is that different TV tuners definitely have differing abilities to lock onto a signal. A signal that might cause my cheapo kitchen LCD TV to drop in and out, is handled by my Panasonic plasma without issue. Second thing I learned while rotating the antenna is that there is a spot just on the other side of where my rotator stops that brings in some stronger signals. My tuning "zone" is between north and east, but to include this sweet spot just west of north without having to rotate the antenna all the way around, I just rotated the mast about 40 degrees to the west to include that area. As far as possibly getting some sweet signals from Sutro or Fremont by aiming the antenna in some bizzare direction, that was a negative. The most stable and strongest signals were always pointed in the general direction of the transmitters. Last thing I learned today is that there will never be a single antenna direction that will pick up all my major channels, with good signals, all of the time. I spent considerable time nudging the antenna a couple degrees this way or that to get the signal to stabilize on one channel, only to find that it was at the expense of another channel.


You know, I think the OTA users who have the rabbit ears ar going to be SOL come next year, and pissed as hell. And even the average Joe, or granny, who's sagging, stationary rooftop antenna has served them well enough, albeit with a bit of snow or ghosting, will also be SOL ... and pissed as hell ... when they discover that there are just going to be channels that they can no longer get with their simple setup. One would think that having most of the transmitters hanging off a single tower would make it easier to aim ones antenna at it, and that's all there is to it. But it ain't so, is it?


Here's another thought. So, we are used to seeing this outage or that outage because they are working on The Tower. In a widespread natural disaster, how smart is it to have all the trnasmitting antennas hanging off a single vulnerabel tower? What a splendid target, too.


Just rambling...
 
#3,139 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/12836433


A

You said that KNTV was not clear at all. How about during an HD broadcast? KNTV should then look as good as KTVU. Sometimes KTVU can not look that clear either when sending out a lousy news video, for example. All stations transmit poor video sometimes. Look at KPIX... their HD broadcasts look fantastic, but it you look at the local news broadcasts, their video looks pretty bad.


We're almost neighbors! I'm on the hill between the Castro and Noe Valley, directly east of Sutro Tower and only 3/4 of a mile away from it. I use a CM 4228 and have had excellent results. There is only one problem with it. I cannot find one position where I can get ALL of the stations from Sutro. I'm speaking of the digital stations here. The antenna is on a rotor so I can change directions easily, and doing that I can get all of the stations.


The ones I have the most problems with are 4, 5 and 9. I can get 2, 7, 32, 44 and 66, with just about any westerly direction. 20, 38 and 43 need a little more fine tuning on the direction, but aren't too hard to bring in, but 4, 5, and 9 can be really touchy. A couple degrees one way of the other can make the difference between a signal of 90 or nothing! I also get more break up on these three due to varying multipath problems, so I suspect that multipath is the cause of most the of the problems on these channels.


Turning the antenna toward Mt. San Bruno I get 11, 26 and 65 without any problems. Turning it northwest I get 68 solid. Turning it southeast I get 14, 36 and 48 solid about 98% of the time. They break up occasionally. 54 is only received on rare occasions.


If I turn the antenna east I get 42 from Mt. Diablo, but have never been able to get 64, and it's also on Mt. Diablo. ???


With the antenna east northeast I get KMAX 31 out of Sacramento all the time, but haven't got any of the other stations from up there.


So that I have reliable signals for recording with my DVR, I don't use the CM4228. I bought a small Antennas Direct SR-15 (see http://www.antennasdirect.com/uhf.html ) pointed it up at an angle directly at the digital antenna on Sutro Tower, added a VHF antenna for channel 12 and pointed it at Mt. San Bruno and tied the two antennas together with a Jointenna. (You can search Google for a variety of places that sell it.)


With this combination of SR-15 and VHF antenna, I get solid signals on all Sutro channels except 4, as well as KNTV. KRON4 can be fine, but it breaks up occasionally. I have to make sure I have this combination fed to the DVR receiver all the time so that I get reliable recordings. If I want to watch one of the other stations on Mt. San Bruno or in the other locations, then I use the CM4228, but I switch back to the combo when I'm done. I use an A-B switch.


So, in conclusion, the CM4228 will work close in to Sutro, but you have to adjust it for the various stations... so you need a rotor. It works great for more distant stations. For Sutro only, try a smaller antenna, like the SR-15, and you'll have better overall results.


Larry

SF
yes, i attempted to watch kntv w/ the hd broadcast. i know it was the hd broadcast because my tv designated digital along w/ giving me dot by dot mode (and then i also did see the analog version
). it looked pretty bad.


drat, i was hoping i would not need a rotor to just get 2, 4, 5, 7 and 11. i really don't watch anything else during prime time and hence my reasoning for not subbing to dtvHD. maybe i'll just do the SR-15 and vhf antenna for now. you mention that you added the vhf antenna for channel 12, would i need that for kntv? thx....oh and yes, we're neighbors. lol.


shark
 
#3,140 ·
shark--


What do you mean by "looked pretty bad"? It sounds as though you have some sort of problem, but I'm not at all sure that it's with your antenna. As has been said many times already, DTV reception is either zero or one, there's no room for "pretty bad". Maybe you have a bum set...?
 
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