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Local HDTV Info and Reception > San Francisco, CA - OTA
GregF's Avatar GregF 02:10 PM 02-15-2005
depending on which of my too many remotes I'm using, I sometimes have to pull up a digital channel by punching in "0051" for 5.1, and at least one of my remotes has a decimal point among the numbers. I hope one of those measures works for you.

keithhr's Avatar keithhr 05:30 PM 02-15-2005
I found 4.1 and 4.2 on their digital 57.1 and 57.2 counterparts and now they are in my tuner's memory although I'm not sure why.
slk230's Avatar slk230 10:17 PM 02-15-2005
Ref: Strange times. It seems that both NBC and ABC are pulling this plus or minus a few minutes #^%$#. Tomorrow Lost will run long, and Alias will run short. NBC starts ER two minutes early every Thursday. Shades of Ted Turner's starting shows five minutes after the hour.
Lee
pacman13's Avatar pacman13 09:07 AM 02-16-2005
I know on my DVR (not HDTV, Dish Network 721) I can set an option to start up to 30 minutes early and end up to 30 minutes later (default sets to 1 and 3 respectively). Do the ones you are using allow this? Nothing worse than finally sitting down to watch a recorded program only to miss the last 3 minutes because they didn't end "on time"! I have noticed that Lost has been this way for quite a while now...
micmel2's Avatar micmel2 08:37 PM 02-17-2005
Can anyone who captures the TS files from KRON run HDTV2MPEG or DVD2AVI against it? That is the only station that I cannot run these programs against--all other stations work correctly. Someone on this forum stated that KRON's TS doesn't broadcast with any I-frames. Thanks in advance.
dr1394's Avatar dr1394 04:03 AM 02-19-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by micmel2
Can anyone who captures the TS files from KRON run HDTV2MPEG or DVD2AVI against it? That is the only station that I cannot run these programs against--all other stations work correctly. Someone on this forum stated that KRON's TS doesn't broadcast with any I-frames. Thanks in advance.

There's plenty of I-frames in the KRON-DT bitstreams. However, there are
some unusual aspects of both the SD and HD video streams. The HD stream
is IBP (only 1 B-frame between P-frames), and there are no GOP headers
or GOP timecode. Here's a dump of the HD video stream:

Code:
@  Found Sequence Start Code at byte position 0.
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 0        ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 100      ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 151000   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 187168   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 215056   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 244392   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 269312   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 297088   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 320280   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 344176   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 365272   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 390416   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 410648   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 433624   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 455016   ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 477144   ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 477244   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 622272   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 653032   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 680128   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 708688   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 733968   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 758760   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 781672   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 807088   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 831488   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 856976   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 881736   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 906096   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 932016   ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 957640   ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 957740   ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1081296  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1117744  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1151264  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1182144  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1210824  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1238992  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1265288  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1293192  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1320440  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1345856  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1370016  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1395192  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1417848  ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 1441968  ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 1442068  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1568552  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1600792  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1640936  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1672072  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1703256  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1735024  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1761440  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1787512  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1812608  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1838840  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1863008  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1889520  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 1913944  ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 1938928  ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 1939028  ---------
* --------  Bidirectional frame at 2072344  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 2105752  ---------
The SD video stream is even more unusual. No B-frames, no GOP headers
or GOP timecode and the Sequence headers are not aligned to I-frames.
This stream will start decoding on P-frames, so when you change channels
to the KRON-DT SD channel, you may see up to 14 funny looking frames
before the first I-frame arrives.
Code:
@  Found Sequence Start Code at byte position 0.
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 0        ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 24       ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 19104    ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 37956    ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 57384    ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 76756    ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 94772    ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 142128   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 161676   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 180516   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 199828   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 218696   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 237748   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 256860   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 275632   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 295180   ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 313880   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 313904   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 332648   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 351572   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 370996   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 389856   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 409464   ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 427580   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 475856   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 495028   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 514288   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 532980   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 551640   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 570428   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 589736   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 608752   ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 627392   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 627416   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 647152   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 665072   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 684484   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 703888   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 721864   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 741832   ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 759952   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 808928   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 827788   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 847116   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 865884   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 884616   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 903240   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 922408   ---------
* --------  Sequence Start Code at 941420   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 941444   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 960468   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 978936   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 998100   ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1017200  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1035992  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1054140  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1074332  ---------
* --------          Intra frame at 1092372  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1141648  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1159956  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1179156  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1197992  ---------
* --------      Predicted frame at 1216888  ---------
Both of these streams are "legal" (within specification) MPEG-2.

Ron
micmel2's Avatar micmel2 12:03 PM 02-19-2005
Ron, thanks for the very informative info. Since this is "legal" under the MPEG2 specs, I guess there is nothing that I can tell KRON that they are transmitting something wrong, i.e. unusual, but legal.
avnstf's Avatar avnstf 02:20 PM 02-19-2005
Hi - for the past couple of nights, the digital signal from channel 11-1 has been breaking up badly with my Samsung 165 ...basically unwatchable. This HASN'T been true using my LG 3410 A, but I haven't changed anything, and I just want to see whether anyone else has seen any change in the signal, so I can decide whether it's that or my 165! Thanks - Tony
eahicks's Avatar eahicks 03:11 PM 02-19-2005
I am in Frisco trying to get HD OTA signals with no luck so far. Have antenna mounted in my attic. Any specific direciton to point to (I know south, and i have it a little southwest right now). Is it pretty tricky getting the perfect angle to point to? I'm new to this, so pardon the inexperience.
djearl81's Avatar djearl81 03:26 PM 02-19-2005
Hicks...

Head to www.antennaweb.org and that will help you out.
Bxz's Avatar Bxz 08:14 PM 02-21-2005
i can't get any CBS channel 5 today at all, anyone knows what's going on? i'm at the bay area.

thx
BXZ
Bxz's Avatar Bxz 11:17 PM 02-21-2005
signal back now, anyway, maybe just some breakout

thx
jsantors's Avatar jsantors 10:17 AM 02-22-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by Bxz
signal back now, anyway, maybe just some breakout

thx

CBS 5-1 and 29 were out for me as well on Sunday.
Glad to hear it is back now though I have not verified for myself.
I was busy watching FOX last night (AI & 24)
go_blue_90's Avatar go_blue_90 09:21 AM 02-23-2005
I switched to a more powerful in-line amp (23 dB) (my old one is 13 dB), and with the help of my brother, I re-positoned the antenna.

Now I got CBS at 29-1, and PBS at 9-1, -2, -3, -4, and -5. I am a happy guy :-)

Of all the HD channels, IMHO, 9-1 has the best quality, with 4-2 (KRON) a close second. The CBS shows are kind of grainy, Fox's are better, ABC and NBC are kind of in between.

680/Washington/Fremont
Samsung 451/Terk 55/15' pole/one-story house
Quad Shield RG6
srikumarc's Avatar srikumarc 11:39 AM 02-24-2005
11-1: Are you folks getting West Wing in HD? I get a strong KNTV signal (about 85-90%) but West Wing doesn't seem to be in HD.

4-1/2: As of the last two days I completely stopped getting any signal for KRON. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? I usually loose KRON even if I put a splitter - essentially a very weak signal. But it was strong enough that my Dish 921 used to lock in and acquire the signal.
jsantors's Avatar jsantors 01:09 PM 02-24-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by srikumarc
11-1: Are you folks getting West Wing in HD? I get a strong KNTV signal (about 85-90%) but West Wing doesn't seem to be in HD.

4-1/2: As of the last two days I completely stopped getting any signal for KRON. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? I usually loose KRON even if I put a splitter - essentially a very weak signal. But it was strong enough that my Dish 921 used to lock in and acquire the signal.

I had KRON 4-1 and 4-2 last night. It was weird on the 4-1 local broadcast news, the sound and video sync were off. Other then that, I was getting the typical signal.
go_blue_90's Avatar go_blue_90 03:01 PM 02-24-2005
Yeah last night there was some strange things with West Wing. First I couln't get any thing (although the signal strength is 8/10), then I got audio but no video. Then I got both. Then I got this black box/frame around the image, like someone shrink the image size. it was like this till the end of the show. Then I switched to CSI-NY.
avnstf's Avatar avnstf 05:19 PM 02-24-2005
I set my LG3410a to record West Wing last night, but something must have been messed up, because it was only 47 minutes long...the first quarter of the show wasn't there!

I've also been having trouble recording 5-1 (otherwise known as 29) for the last week.. I guess it started when the digital broadcast went out for part of the weekend, but since then BOTH of my receivers now try to go to 5-1, then give me first a "no signal" screen, but then evidently pick it up at 29, which then gets relabeled as 5-1...but this is enough of a screwup that any scheduled recording fails. I guess I may have to unplug power and disconnect the antenna from both, in the hope this solves the problem, but I hate to go through all the setup stuff I did on the 3410A to have the TV Guide show the HD channels at the top, so that that's what would be recorded when I set the appropriate button...

ANybody else still having trouble with 5-1?

Tony
kgidley's Avatar kgidley 05:41 PM 02-24-2005
I also had weird problems with the "West Wing" recording last night. When I went to play it back on my HDTivo, it showed the Tivo background screen for the video with the correct audio. I tried FF but that wasn't really working either - skipping to 15 min in worked better. Fortunately, I had a SD Tivo recording it as well, so I got the see the whole ep, though not in HD.
pacman13's Avatar pacman13 06:49 PM 02-24-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by avnstf
ANybody else still having trouble with 5-1?

Tony

Yup - I have to tune to 29 in order to get the channel. When I tune to 5 it gives me a "no signal"...and when 29 does tune in, it does not "remap" to channel 5...
avnstf's Avatar avnstf 01:04 AM 02-25-2005
Pacman13: has this ony been happening recently with you?

That's the case with me....before the past week or so, 29 mapped automatically into 5-1, and I could use the TV Guide for selecting programs on 5 for recording...Tony
Otto Pylot's Avatar Otto Pylot 08:19 AM 02-25-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by avnstf
I set my LG3410a to record West Wing last night, but something must have been messed up, because it was only 47 minutes long...the first quarter of the show wasn't there!




ANybody else still having trouble with 5-1?

Tony

Yes! I couldn't tune in 5-1 at all last night. Kept getting No Signal with my LST-4200A. Same thing this morning. Everything else from Sutro is rock solid for me including KNBC from Mt. Alison in Fremont. The LG is able remap and redirect me to other stations that have changed so I don't understand why it can't do 5-1. Someone enlighten me please.
Bxz's Avatar Bxz 05:08 PM 02-27-2005
Guys,

I'm watching ABC Oscar live now, the signal is pretty strong (80% around 19dB),
but the picture sometimes freeze for a second or 2, not sure it's my setup or the signal problem. Nascar is on fox now too, i only got 17dB, but pic is perfect without any glitch.

Anyone has this problem? i'm using fusion3T.

BXZ
GregF's Avatar GregF 08:13 PM 02-27-2005
I was watching OTA without incident. Perhaps the bad weather was causing you some trouble.
Larry Kenney's Avatar Larry Kenney 01:10 AM 02-28-2005
I've been away for a few days, so I want to cover three different subjects that have been discussed here lately.

First, the Program Guide info is sent by each station as part of their PSIP data. If the timing is not correct for the programs that start a minute or two off the hour, such as "Lost", "Alias", "ER", "Law & Order", etc., that's due to the time being entered wrong at the station. Wherever the information is coming from, either from the program log or from some database, they haven't corrected the time to match the actual program time. An email or phone call to the station alerting them to the problem might get it fixed.

It seems like more and more programs are starting and ending one or two minutes before or after the hour. I don't like it! To see the end of one program, you miss the first minute or two of another program you want to watch on another channel.

Several of you have indicated that you've had problems receiving KRON, KPIX, and KGO at times. It's all due to their PSIP data not being compatible with all receivers. Different receivers seem to interpret the PSIP data differently. Since the stations have made changes to satisfy new FCC laws for PSIP, the final results haven't worked for everyone. Sometimes a simple scan will fix the problem. Sometimes it won't.

KGO 7 (24) knows about their problem, and they've ordered a new PSIP generator. Their old one keeps dropping information for 7.2. If you can't find 7.2, try tuning to 24.2. You'll find it there.

KRON 4 (57) and KPIX 5 (29) have had PSIP problems that affect some receivers. KRON seems to have fixed their problem, at least for my reciever, but I'm not sure about KPIX since it didn't bother either of mine. If you can't find a signal on 4.1 or 4.2, try 57.1 and 57.2. If you can't find anything on 5.1, go to 29.1.

Two other stations that haven't been mentioned here are still having problems. KTLN 47.1 will not come in on some receivers with their present PSIP data even when you get a good signal. Since they transmit on 47 and send PSIP data as 47.1, there's no place to tune to here.

KFSF 66 (34.1) can't be received on 66.1 on some receivers, but the signal is fine on 34.1.

Sometimes the signal looks fine on the OTA monitors at a station and they don't realize that they have a problem! If you're having reception problems with a station, let them know by email or phone, and make sure you tell them what make and model receiver(s) you're using. It's best to talk to someone in the engineering office if you can get through to them.

Finally, someone asked about how to "punch in" the numbers to get the sub-channels. It seems like every receiver is different, so there's no definite answer to this question. The channel readouts can even be different. Some receivers use dots, such as 7.1, while others use a dash, such as 7-1. On the remote for my Sony I have a "dot", so I can punch in "seven dot one" or "two nine dot one". For my Hi-Pix card, the only way to get to the sub-channels is to do a scan and hope that it picks them up and puts them in my channel list. As others have mentioned, on some receivers you can punch in the main channel number, and then use the channel up button to go to .1, .2, .3, etc. Good luck on that one!

Larry
pacman13's Avatar pacman13 09:54 AM 02-28-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by avnstf
Pacman13: has this ony been happening recently with you?

That's the case with me....before the past week or so, 29 mapped automatically into 5-1, and I could use the TV Guide for selecting programs on 5 for recording...Tony

Yup, I have only had this problem since 2/12. Before that everything worked fine, so I know my receiver is "compatible" with their PSIP stuff... All other channels seem to be fine.
avnstf's Avatar avnstf 02:00 PM 02-28-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by Larry Kenney
I've been away for a few days, so I want to cover three different subjects that have been discussed here lately.

First, the Program Guide info is sent by each station as part of their PSIP data. If the timing is not correct for the programs that start a minute or two off the hour, such as "Lost", "Alias", "ER", "Law & Order", etc., that's due to the time being entered wrong at the station. Wherever the information is coming from, either from the program log or from some database, they haven't corrected the time to match the actual program time. An email or phone call to the station alerting them to the problem might get it fixed.

...

Larry

Thanks for the info, Larry. I wonder if you know anything about the TV Guide info that I understand is transmitted by one of the bay area analog stations (I don't know which one) and that feeds data for ALL the stations to certain kinds of receivers, like my new LG 3410a. This is supposed to be a centralized source of info for everything, and I've found 2 problems with it.

1. Even when a program is SCHEDULED to end, for example, 1 or 2 minutes after the hour, as happens with Lost on ABC routinely, this guide data apparently has that wrong. If I knew which station transmitted that data THAT's where I would inquire...

2. As far as I can tell this TV Guide data does NOT include info for 9-1, and increasingly KQED is having interesting and beautiful programs in high-def...it would be nice to have a convenient source of data for this station, and it seems like the TV Guide data source is that one that ought to carry it, since this feeds the data right into the receiver!

So do you know anything about this? Thanks - Tony
JeffNebraska's Avatar JeffNebraska 02:26 PM 02-28-2005
Hello there. Ironically, I started this thread over a year ago, but just got myself an HDTV last month.

Well, now that I have it, I have a roof antenna to get my singals from Sutro (I live in the Berkeley flats). On my HDTivo signal strength meter, I get basically every channel from Sutro at a signal strength between 70 and 95, which translates into perfect, break-up free picture quality... except for the WB. On the WB my signal strength fluxates wildly between 0 and 25.

I read earlier in the thread that people had complaints about the picture quality of the WB's HD signals, but is anyone else having this singal strength issue? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get the WB up to the level of the rest of my channels?

I'd really like to be able to get my HD Gilmore Girls. Should I be ashamed of that?

Thanks.
jsantors's Avatar jsantors 04:34 PM 02-28-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by JeffNebraska
Hello there. Ironically, I started this thread over a year ago, but just got myself an HDTV last month.

Well, now that I have it, I have a roof antenna to get my singals from Sutro (I live in the Berkeley flats). On my HDTivo signal strength meter, I get basically every channel from Sutro at a signal strength between 70 and 95, which translates into perfect, break-up free picture quality... except for the WB. On the WB my signal strength fluxates wildly between 0 and 25.

I read earlier in the thread that people had complaints about the picture quality of the WB's HD signals, but is anyone else having this singal strength issue? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get the WB up to the level of the rest of my channels?

I'd really like to be able to get my HD Gilmore Girls. Should I be ashamed of that?

Thanks.

I get the WB strong (80%), out in San Ramon.
I have a DB2 w\\ a CM7777.
Do you have a pre-amp? I was not getting a WB signal with the radio shack 15-1880, only after I upgraded to the DB2 and pre-amp did I get the signal.
With the terrain between me and sutro, you should have an advantage in berkeley.
ldivinag's Avatar ldivinag 07:30 PM 02-28-2005
Quote:


Originally posted by JeffNebraska

Well, now that I have it, I have a roof antenna to get my singals from Sutro (I live in the Berkeley flats). On my HDTivo signal strength meter, I get basically every channel from Sutro at a signal strength between 70 and 95, which translates into perfect, break-up free picture quality... except for the WB. On the WB my signal strength fluxates wildly between 0 and 25.

I read earlier in the thread that people had complaints about the picture quality of the WB's HD signals, but is anyone else having this singal strength issue? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get the WB up to the level of the rest of my channels?

I'd really like to be able to get my HD Gilmore Girls. Should I be ashamed of that?

Thanks.

1. on my indoor antenna, i have to rotate the pie plate in order to get kbwb. so you may have to rotate yours...

2. no the bitrate by kbwb just sucks so you have mega pixelation when panning on fast moving scenes...

3. no... i like the GG in HD... ditto OTH right after it. then SMALLVILLE and JACK & BOBBY...

now if comcast would add kbwb...
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