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Local HDTV Info and Reception > San Francisco, CA - OTA
Chuck Tribolet's Avatar Chuck Tribolet 12:54 PM 04-08-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Are you sure that's the correct website? That website says it's a network in the Middle East, not the US.

- Trip


I'm seeing the same thing.

 

Chuck



Calaveras's Avatar Calaveras 03:14 PM 04-08-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

All four stations are owned by Univision. Perhaps that's how they're affiliated? wink.gif

- Trip


I don't know where you find that. I can't find any mention of Univision in Station Info or Ownership Info in the FCC records.

Chuck
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 03:40 PM 04-08-2014
Larry Kenney's Avatar Larry Kenney 04:58 PM 04-08-2014
From TV Technology:

KOFY 20 is going to launch OTA Tablet TV this Fall. Tablet Television LLC will conduct its first beta market test in San Francisco and start commercial operations in the fall of 2014. Tablet TV, a joint venture of Motive Television plc and Granite Broadcasting, is an over-the-air, ATSC-based service for tablet computers, with no subscription fee, cable, satellite or Internet required.

Here's a link to the details: http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/ota-tablet-tv-to-launch-this-fall-/269822

Larry
TPeterson's Avatar TPeterson 07:09 PM 04-08-2014
Looks to be the tablet equivalent of the USB PC tuner, Larry. I wonder if it'll have better software support? biggrin.gif
Larry Kenney's Avatar Larry Kenney 01:19 AM 04-09-2014
We'll have to check it out and see well it works.

Larry
4Crawler's Avatar 4Crawler 01:53 PM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post

And, like so many stations, they don't seem to care if the PSIP info is updated. There doesn't even seem to be a web site explaining the channel, have a schedule, or any information whatsoever. How do they expect folks to tune in if there is no way to see what's on?

So far I've seen two movies ... which were both B&W "B" movies from the 60s ... .

Yes, I still see nothing on the OTA EPG information nor anything in the on-line schedules, like Zap and SD.
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 06:19 PM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Crawler View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post

And, like so many stations, they don't seem to care if the PSIP info is updated. There doesn't even seem to be a web site explaining the channel, have a schedule, or any information whatsoever. How do they expect folks to tune in if there is no way to see what's on?

So far I've seen two movies ... which were both B&W "B" movies from the 60s ... .

Yes, I still see nothing on the OTA EPG information nor anything in the on-line schedules, like Zap and SD.

Hi,

 

I just checked TitanTV which seems to get new streams added first and it has nothing either.

 

If you or anyone sees programming on "The Works" VC 38.6 that you recognize I can start the process of getting the new sub-channel added to Zap2It and SD. Both of those use TMS for the listings.

 

I think that I am going to wait as this appears to me to be a new start up and it may take a while unless more information comes in.

 

I need to be able to recognize some programs to be able to confirm to SD that both the program and the time are correct so SD can close the ticket with TMS.

 

We now have so many channels showing movies the well must be going dry.

 

Maybe this is a rebranded "MOVIES! that we are waiting for.

 

SHF

 

Quote:
How do they expect folks to tune in if there is no way to see what's on?

 

Simple, they just tune in to a stream and start doing other things, if they see something they like then start watching.


Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 06:30 PM 04-11-2014
If you check the TitanTV listing for WTVE in Philadelphia, it already has guide info for "The Works." It's on WTVE's website, if that helps.

- Trip
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 06:51 PM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

If you check the TitanTV listing for WTVE in Philadelphia, it already has guide info for "The Works." It's on WTVE's website, if that helps.

- Trip

 

Hi,

 

thanks, I found "The Works" listings.

 

http://www.wtve.com/channel-schedule/

 

If the movies listed are like most of the other ones they will be showing, then count me out.
 

Quote:

It's Alive! (NR, *) A loony farmer in a small town finds a prehistoric, cave-dwelling and lizard-like creature hidden on his land, and he feeds passersby to the monster.

 

Quote:

Daughters of Satan (R, **) After buying a painting of witches being burned at the stake, a man's wife, who resembles one of the witches in the painting, begins acting very oddly.

 

SHF


Edit: I just realized that I watch a lot of "horror" programs, but they are in various languages with English subtitles.

 

21:00 - Unit One 60-1 KCSMDT, ends 22:00 Crime (started 23 hours ago) The head of Unit One is found murdered in his home. Ingrid Dahl is promoted to take his place and discover who killed him.

 

I am watching this program right now.

 

MHZ - International Mystery on KCSM at 21:00 seven days a week.


rdvegas's Avatar rdvegas 09:04 PM 04-11-2014
It would seem possible that current programming on The Works is low level fare prior to an official launch of the network.
Calaveras's Avatar Calaveras 09:38 AM 04-16-2014
The Saga of K02QX

K02QX is another One Ministries station.

July 2010 - Is granted a construction permit for a 300 watt transmitter on RF 2 on Fremont Peak.

May 2013 - Is granted a 6 month extension to complete construction.

December 2013 - Is granted another 6 month extension to complete construction.

March 2014 - Is granted a License to Cover the construction permit.

March 2014 - Is granted a Silent STA because only now they discover that KOTR analog is already on RF 2 and the two stations interfere with each other. Appears to be an FCC screw-up allowing KOTR to change antenna patterns. Of course this wouldn't be an issue had KOTR built their channel 11 digital station and shut off analog 2.

April 2014 - Files an application to move the transmitter from Fremont Peak to a location 31 miles north directly west of Morgan Hill that is 400' higher and includes a power increase to 3KW.

The application claims that in prior communication, the FCC has agreed to allow this move. The new service contour easily covers the south bay and way up the east bay. If the application is approved there'll be a new channel 2 in the south bay.

Stay tuned.

Chuck
Larry Kenney's Avatar Larry Kenney 01:38 AM 04-17-2014
If K02QX gets on in the South Bay it'll be competing with KFTY 2 from Mt. St. Helena... both owned by One Ministries. Interesting!

By the way, I've been able to receive KFTY here in San Francisco. I saw a signal from them on my antennas pointed toward Walnut Grove, but too weak to make a picture. I made a quick dipole cut for channel 2. Moving it around the room I was able to get a 17 dB signal on 2. I'm sure with a low VHF antenna on my roof pointed north they'd come in full time. My only antenna that covers low VHF is pointed SSW and it doesn't get any signal on channel 2.

Larry
Chuck Tribolet's Avatar Chuck Tribolet 05:40 PM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

April 2014 - Files an application to move the transmitter from Fremont Peak to a location 31 miles north directly west of Morgan Hill that is 400' higher and includes a power increase to 3KW.

That sounds like the old KSBW tower.

 

Chuck


SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 06:03 PM 04-19-2014
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

April 2014 - Files an application to move the transmitter from Fremont Peak to a location 31 miles north directly west of Morgan Hill that is 400' higher and includes a power increase to 3KW.

That sounds like the old KSBW tower.

 

Chuck

Hi,

 

Final EDIT Maybe: I am unsure, I am using several mapping programs and my memory from 35+ years ago when I was on top of the ridge on a motorcycle (Gate was open) to locate KNTV's old tower.

 

Not KSBW's old tower, maybe KNTV's old tower???.

 

N37 7 8, W121 49 57

 

That is from the application.

 

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1633739&Service=LD&Form_id=346&Facility_id=182144

 

Mt. Chual is the closest landmark I see.  Loma Prieta  is close by.

 

The tower Registration  number 1201679

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=2098722

 

I have not found what other services are on the tower.

 

Sorry for all the noise, I did not save KNTV's old tower location.

 

SHF

 




 

 

the old KSBW tower is visible in Google Earth. Not owned by KSBW. Also Mt. Chual's tower is visible, see above.

 

Quote:
a location 31 miles north directly west of Morgan Hill

 KSBW's old tower is West of Gilroy not Morgan Hill. KNTV's old tower is West of Morgan Hill.

 

Time to go into the FCC files and extract the Lat. and Lon.

 

NOT DONE correctly, Fremont Peak looked to me like the OLD KSBW tower. A different mapping program with cities showed the error! :o

 

See the above.

 

SHF


CTEL08's Avatar CTEL08 10:57 PM 04-19-2014
i drive by that tower every day when we take the kids to school.

its not on top of the hills, its on the valley floor a little bit west of town.
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 12:13 AM 04-20-2014

Hi,

 

Thanks for your comment, it made me realize that I have a 3D mapping program.

 

After perhaps the last of false "I got it", the answer was in the application and when the tower was built.

 

35+ years ago it was not there and Google Earth finally showed me the shadow of KNTV's old tower.

 

K02QX wants to be on a tower that is not the old KNTV tower but one close by.

 

SHF


RayGuy's Avatar RayGuy 02:36 AM 04-20-2014
Yes, it's getTV all over again. The same loop of movies over and over until they "go live" (or we go bonkers).
Theducksfan2010's Avatar Theducksfan2010 03:39 AM 04-20-2014

ZUUS Latino seems to have disappeared nationwide, what replaced it on KFTL 28.3??


Calaveras's Avatar Calaveras 08:08 AM 04-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet View Post

That sounds like the old KSBW tower.

Chuck


In Google Earth locate the intersection of Hwy 101 and Tenant Ave and then draw a line due west 11.5 miles long and you'll be at the proposed transmitter site.

Chuck
CTEL08's Avatar CTEL08 10:17 AM 04-20-2014
From what Chuck describes 11 or so miles west of that location would be roundabout Loma Prieta.


we have a view the entire ridge plain as day from my front door at something like 6 or 7 miles away.

KNTV's old transmitter is up there, but it looks like there are also several other transmitters grouped relatively close together along the ridge up there. there is also a low power transmitter for K-LOVE on ch 6, i wouldnt know if they use KNTV's old tower or not.
888CALLFCC's Avatar 888CALLFCC 04:26 PM 04-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

ZUUS Latino seems to have disappeared nationwide, what replaced it on KFTL 28.3??

It's still zuus latino.... Nothing has changed here..... Unless they are doing a re-run loop or something.
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 08:29 PM 04-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

...
there is also a low power transmitter for K-LOVE on ch 6, i wouldnt know if they use KNTV's old tower or not.

Hi,

 

K-LOVE (KBKF-LP) is on KNTV's old tower, or very close by. is NOT on KNTV's old tower. It was in the KBKF-LD's FCC entries.  KBKF-LD does have a Digital Construction Permit.

 

EDIT: The "Antenna Structure Registration database" number 1056768 comes up with a different Lat. Lon. and is not owned by KNTV!

 

37° 06' 39.10" N, 121° 50' 37.00" W

 

 

(That can be pasted into Google Earth's search box and after zooming in you can see the tower's shadow. It is hard to see as the sun was almost overhead.)

 

I am saving that as the location of KNTV's old tower. :o

 

 

The pin for Loma Prieta is above and centered, the pin for K-LOVE is to the right.

 

I am assuming that the KNTV tower is the big tower below "USA". It appears to have very many antennas on it.

 

 

SHF


equivocal's Avatar equivocal 12:22 AM 04-21-2014
I thought KNTV's old tower collapsed.
Maybe I have my call signs crossed.
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 01:24 AM 04-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by equivocal View Post

I thought KNTV's old tower collapsed.
Maybe I have my call signs crossed.

Hi,

 

Have you been watching the news lately?

 

KNTV's old Studios on Park Ave just burned down last week.

 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Bulldozers-Arrive-To-Tear-Down-Old-KNTV-Studios-Damaged-In-5-Alarm-Fire-255321561.html


The FCC data base shows nothing about the tower collapsing.

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistration.jsp?regKey=100100

 

In the picture it may not be the big one but the one at the top just above "37.00".

 

 

SHF

 


As soon as I started work after University the phrase "Good enough for Government Work" was said often by a experienced engineer.

 

That may be why the pins do not hit the tower base in Google Earth, locating a tower within 50 feet was acceptable.

 

Now of course we can locate down to centimeters and smaller.


Calaveras's Avatar Calaveras 09:14 AM 04-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

As soon as I started work after University the phrase "Good enough for Government Work" was said often by a experienced engineer.

That may be why the pins do not hit the tower base in Google Earth, locating a tower within 50 feet was acceptable.

Now of course we can locate down to centimeters and smaller.


There are a couple of reasons why the coordinates don't put the pin in quite the right place in Google Earth.

1) The FCC is using the NAD27 coordinate system and Google Earth is using NAD83/WGS84. There is a conversion between the two.

2) Some stations don't get their coordinates quite right.


To convert from NAD27 to NAD83 use this:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/nadcon.prl

Even though it says otherwise, I can only get it to convert if I enter the Lat/Lon in the decimal format. Degrees/Minutes/Seconds doesn't work. So you have to do that conversion yourself.


K02QX doesn't put the pin in the correct location using either coordinates. I tried converting for KGO and the conversion put the pin directly on Sutro tower.

Chuck
Chuck Tribolet's Avatar Chuck Tribolet 09:32 AM 04-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

1) The FCC is using the NAD27 coordinate system and Google Earth is using NAD83/WGS84. There is a conversion between the two.

The difference between NAD27 and NAD83/WGS84 is much larger than the error in those push pins.  In northern California, it's something like 100 yards, mostly east/west.  Which is still amazing given NAD27 was laid out with tape measures and transits starting in Kansas.  When they got to California,  the cumulative error was 5/1000 of one per percent, which is less than a steel tape changes in 1degree F change in temperature.


Calaveras's Avatar Calaveras 10:55 AM 04-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Tribolet View Post

The difference between NAD27 and NAD83/WGS84 is much larger than the error in those push pins.  In northern California, it's something like 100 yards, mostly east/west.  Which is still amazing given NAD27 was laid out with tape measures and transits starting in Kansas.  When they got to California,  the cumulative error was 5/1000 of one per percent, which is less than a steel tape changes in 1degree F change in temperature.

I looked at KGO, KICU and KOVR in Google Earth and then converted from NAD27 to NAD83 and the pin moved much closer to the actual tower. It was still not perfect but close enough that you wouldn't mistake which tower they meant.

In this sample the difference between NAD27 and NAD83 was very close to the position error of the pins. I suspect the remaining error was from rounding to 1". I think fractional seconds are necessary.

Chuck
SFischer1's Avatar SFischer1 06:23 PM 04-21-2014

Hi,

 

I checked the Datum used by Google Earth, ExpertGPS and Delorme Topo North America plus the FCC last night.  WGS84 in use  EDIT: WGS84/NAD83)

 

The FCC is not using NAD27, well not completely.

 

Hitting Larry's list ICON  and then "KAXT" brings up an entry that is clearly marked NAD27.

 

Clicking on the url  I gave for KNTV's old tower brings up an entry with this line.
 

Quote:

Location (in NAD83 Coordinates - Convert to NAD27)

 

The "Convert to NAD27" link brings up the tool Chuck provided a link for:

 

Quote:

Use NADCON (North American Datum Conversion) to convert latitude and longitude from NAD 27 to NAD 83 or from NAD 83 to NAD 27.

Computations may be performed for a specific geographical location or for a file of input points

 


Googling  "Google Earth Datum" brings up one place which says:

 

Quote:
Wikipedia says, "The internal coordinate system of Google Earth is geographic coordinates (latitude/longitude) on the World Geodetic System of 1984 (WGS84) datum." WGS84 is the standard. NAD83 and WGS84 are similar enough to each other that you can use one or the other.
 

But just below that is:

 

Quote:
Umm, If you plot data using NAD83 (vs. WGS84) you will most definitely experience datum shift. The 2 datums are not interchangeable.

 

I got only forum answers!

 

So there are two problems, datum and data entry.

 

Quote:
K02QX doesn't put the pin in the correct location using either coordinates.

That is likely a data entry problem and there are likely tons of old entries that were entered incorrectly.

 

 

Getting the pin correctly for KNTV's old tower requires that we know which tower on Loma is KNTV's old tower. I do not know that but who to ask is listed and he is on the Yahoo  [HDTV-in-SFbay] list.

 

But do we really need to know which tower on Loma is KNTV's old tower and which one KBKF-LD is on. The question was are the two on the same tower. They are not as KBKF-LD's tower does not say "KNTV".

 

SHF


Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 06:48 PM 04-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

The FCC is not using NAD27, well not completely.

All coordinates in CDBS are in NAD27, while anything in ULS or the ASR database is in NAD83. That, of course, doesn't stop stations from incorrectly putting NAD83 coordinates into CDBS as though they were NAD27 coordinates. Nor does it stop stations from inputting incorrect coordinates. There are a fair number of stations with poor or incorrect coordinates.

- Trip
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