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Old 08-04-2014, 07:23 AM
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I was able to decode KTSF RF 27 for the first time this morning. For some reason KEXT was off the air and I had exceptional conditions to Mt. San Bruno. KKPX was SNR 31 dB as it sometimes is. I captured a good ID for KTSF when it was SNR 26 dB.

I don't know what's going on with KEXT. Normally I would think because it was off the air that they were converting to digital but they've been off the air before and came back on still as analog. One day that'll have to change. If they're not converting I'd be happy if they'd stay off.

I also received KMUM on RF 31 for the first time this weekend and I see they're translating KSPX. They don't ID as KMUM. Another wasted channel.

Chuck
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:31 PM
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FCC Service Contour Maps

I have several pages that I put together and had links to them in my signature. I decided to change that and create one master page with links to them and anything new I might add. See the new link in my signature.

I created a new page showing the FCC Service Contours for all the licensed stations in Northern and Central California within 350 KM of me, basically from Redding to Bakersfield. It is organized by RF channel number. I only included licensed stations. I did not include applications for a station or construction permits for stations. There are many very small translator stations in the eastern Sierra most running less than 100 watts ERP with tiny service contours. I did not include any of those. I did not include any analog stations. I did include a few Reno stations that had significant coverage into California. There were no stations on RF 5 or RF 6 that met my criteria for inclusion.

A few things jumped out while going through the FCC database one channel at a time. There are many licensed LPTV analog stations. I don't know how many are still on the air. There are large numbers of applications on file that the FCC has not acted on for both low power stations and even some full service stations. There are a large number of construction permits for low power digital stations going back to 2009 and earlier that have not been built.

Link

http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Contours/contours.html

The service contours are one criteria that the FCC uses to determine if a new station can granted a construction permit. Of course stations are often received well beyond their contours.

Chuck
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:35 PM
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Very interesting Chuck, thanks for posting that.

I do not agree with KMAX RF 21 and KCRA RF 35.
A complete circle. ? "Maybe in a flat world" , but not reality.
KGO 35 is also suspect. UHF reaching into Santa Cruz. ?

On the other hand, KHSL & KEMO in my experience, ... go way beyond that in service.

I still have not solved the RF 7 signal in Roseville. But will find out eventually.
I believe RF 13 KTVN is possible there, too.
Interesting.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
I do not agree with KMAX RF 21 and KCRA RF 35.
A complete circle. ? "Maybe in a flat world" , but not reality.
KGO 35 is also suspect. UHF reaching into Santa Cruz. ?
That's how contour lines work. The process is called "projecting" the contour because it only takes into account terrain for the first 10 miles. After that, terrain is ignored.

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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Old 08-08-2014, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I created a new page showing the FCC Service Contours for all the licensed stations in Northern and Central California within 350 KM of me, basically from Redding to Bakersfield.
Chuck
Great job, Chuck. It's going to be a lot more handy to check your maps than it is to bring up the FCC pages. Thanks for the service!

Larry

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:14 PM
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Hi Guys,

I follow your forum but it's way out of my league. So I have a cheap motorized antenna mounted 20ft. above my roof in Novato. It's about 2ft by 2ft, has two ears that stick out to each side at angles to about 5 loops one in front of the other. Sold all over Ebay for about $30. I had to eliminate the rotating feature because it kept rotating on it's own for some reason.

I normally have it pointed at San Fran where I get most everything coming out of there. There are a couple of other stations coming from other areas (Freemont, Sacramento) I would like to get, and can if I rotate what I have now. Can you suggest a better antenna?

TIA
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
I normally have it pointed at San Fran where I get most everything coming out of there. There are a couple of other stations coming from other areas (Freemont, Sacramento) I would like to get, and can if I rotate what I have now. Can you suggest a better antenna?
What antenna do you have? Model #? Please post a link to your TV Fool report.

Chuck
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:01 PM
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Here is the antenna I have

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-TV-Antenn...item258ffc0d28

And here is the report.



Paul
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Here is the antenna I have

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-TV-Antenn...item258ffc0d28

And here is the report.

Paul
Hi,

Please go back to the TVFool Page and copy and paste the LINK into a post. You are in the hills and clicking on a station will bring up a profile. We cannot click on an image. Or provide a zip code.

I extracted your zip code and entered it into:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Click the box " Show lines pointing to each transmitter".

When you click on a station radio button you will see the coverage.

The stations on Mt. Allison and Monument Pk. do not look promising for you.

There is no link for that TVFool report.

SHF
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:31 PM
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Here is the link

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c676393bdbbb

There are many hills around but I am mostly to the east of them. I'm very near the intersection of Highways 101 and 37.

Thanks!

One channel I would like to add is Get TV, which I was able to 'get' out of Sacramento KTFKDT3 64.3 by turning my antenna in that direction (lost most SF stations).
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Here is the link

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c676393bdbbb

There are many hills around but I am mostly to the east of them. I'm very near the intersection of Highways 101 and 37.

Thanks!

One channel I would like to add is Get TV, which I was able to 'get' out of Sacramento KTFKDT3 64.3 by turning my antenna in that direction (lost most SF stations).

Moving the pin to 101 and 37 gives a much better "TV Fool Google map" than the zip code.

KDTV-DT (Digital)
Channel: 51 (14.1)
Network: Univision (SI)
Maximum ERP: 476.300 kW
Coordinates: 37.499336 -121.872449
(Mt. Allison) 55 Miles


KTFK-DT (Digital)

Channel: 26 (64.1)
Network: Telefutura
Maximum ERP: 850.000 kW
Coordinates: 38.239915 -121.501897
(Walnut Grove) 58 Miles but ~ twice the power

Both are worth trying for, but until you aim your antenna and ask your TV is it sees anything the final answer will not be known. Oh the perils of multipath.

Turning your antenna to Walnut Grove and you lose Sutro, expected. If you turn your head toward Walnut Grove can you see behind to your right. NO. Same with a directional antenna.

The antenna experts can suggest perhaps a better antenna and rotor, perhaps one that is not so "Star Wars" looking to sell instead one that is designed to receive DTV. WHAT! There is no such thing as a HD Antenna!


Quote:
Channel: VHF1-12 UHF21-69
VHF RF 1 ????? What about VHF 13 and UHF 14-20 ???? UHF 52 - 69 are mostly gone.

What is the brand and model of the antenna? I do not think that it even does a good job on KGO RF 7.

The WalMart description sure has a lot of B* jive nonsense.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 08-08-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Here is the antenna I have
I tried one of those antennas for use when going to hill tops looking for stations. It was small, compact and folded up easily. But it worked terribly compared to other antennas, so you can definitely improve your reception with a better antenna.

Looking at your TVFool list, only three stations up your way (RF 2, 23, and 47, which convert to 45, 22 and 68) plus the two VHF stations, 7 and 12 (11) have strong signals. Channel 3 should be there, too. It's a new station transmitting from Mt. Tam. All of the others are in the pink area or worse, so you're going to need an antenna with gain to get decent signals that won't pixelate and break up on you. Stations in the grey area are usually very iffy. You might get them; you might not.

I've had very good luck with the Channel Master CM4228 for UHF (channels 14-51) and an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 yagi for VHF. See attached photo. I recommend that you get them or something similar. I can receive all of the channels listed on my TVFool report down to through the pink section, plus a few in the gray area. You can find these antennas on many of the on line electronic sites which you can find on my Broadcasting page (linked below). Look for the section on antennas. I've had good service from Solid Signal. When you get to a site, search for CM4228 and Y10-7-13. You'll find the antennas I'm talking about along with others that are similar. Also buy a VHF/UHF combiner. You connect the two antennas to the combiner and then have one coax cable that comes down to your TV.

As Stephen (SHF) pointed out, antennas are directional and only pick up stations in the direction that they're pointed. If you want stations from Sutro Tower and Mt. San Bruno, plus stations from Walnut Grove, you'll need a rotor.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Larry
SF
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My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
I tried one of those antennas for use when going to hill tops looking for stations. It was small, compact and folded up easily. But it worked terribly compared to other antennas, so you can definitely improve your reception with a better antenna.

...

Larry
SF
Thanks Larry for confirming my instant evaluation.

From Walmart, red is ROFLMAO

http://www.walmart.com/ip/HDTV-Outdo...Miles/34176799


Quote:
Best Choice Product presents this brand new HD TV Antenna. This Outdoor antenna is one of the most powerful on the market with a range of 150 miles. It's designed to receive Digital TV UHF/VHF signals while providing high quality HDTV picture. You can enjoy High Definition Television without the high cost of cable or satellite. We purchase our products directly from the manufacturer, so you know you're getting the best prices available.

NEW PRODUCT WITH FACTORY PACKAGING

FEATURES:

•UHF/VHF/FM signals

•Broadcast in both High Definition and Standard Definition

•For 1080p or 720p depending on the broadcast signal and your TVs resolution capability

•Weather-resistant

Low-noise and high-gain amplifier is built in

•Built-in motor turns the antenna 360 degrees

•Motor turns in both directions to avoid tangles

•Wireless remote controller

•Control box with dual TV outputs is included

•Assembles in minutes

•Mounts to a pole up to 1" in diameter (pole not included) SPECIFICATIONS:

•150 miles range

•Frequency: 40-890 MHz

Channel: VHF1-12 UHF21-69

•Impedance: 75 Ω

•Power: 3W

•Power Supply: AC110V

•Rotation speed: 2-4 rounds/min

PLEASE NOTE:

•Our digital images are as accurate as possible. However, different monitors may cause colors to vary slightly.

•Some of our items are handcrafted and/or hand finished. Color can vary and slight imperfections in the metal work are normal and considered evidence of the hand-finishing process, which adds character and authenticity to those items.

Do you have questions about this product? Ask a question.


And this is just the first page I found trying to find out what this antenna is. Lots of sites are selling them, they MUST be great!

PaulamI, the factory in China must be running 24/7/365 to meet the demand.

Don't feel bad, if Larry bought one anyone can be fooled. Oh if it just was as great as the unknown copy writer says Cable, Disk, AT&T ... would be unable to send their $$$$$$$ charges.

But then,
  • This was made by a baby bending wire?
  • Designed by a Computer to be the best?
  • Was sent into space?


SHF
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Old 08-09-2014, 07:06 AM
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Thanks so much guys, nothing like first hand experience. Well I'm learning, I now know that no matter what antenna, a rotor is necessary. To clarify my earlier post, I can get the Walnut Grove stations by pointing my cheapo antenna that way, and I do get all of the major stations out of SF (Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC) when I point it that way. I was not able to get the Freemont stations.

How do you guys manage the direction in which your antenna is pointed? Do you just rotate it until the station you want comes in? As I mentioned, when I was using my rotor it kept moving on it's own (maybe a neighbor's remote control?) and I always found myself getting up and going outside to see where it was pointed and how many times the coax was wrapped around the pole.

Can you have two antennas pointed in different directions hooked up at the same time?

I have my antenna hooked up to two TVs, and a second home made coat hanger antenna on the same pole hooked to a TV in another area of the house. To share my limited experience, the coat hanger antenna gets me the same SF channels but the coax cable has to be shorter and will only support one TV while the other works on the two TVs farther away (because of the amplifier I suppose). I tried and it will not support all three TVs in the house. So I guess for my $30 what I got was an amplifier and a rotor and nothing special for an antenna. In it's defense I have gotten a year of use out of it and it will make a nice Halloween costume headdress.

Larry, thanks for the link to your antennas, very useful.

Paul
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Thanks so much guys, nothing like first hand experience. Well I'm learning, I now know that no matter what antenna, a rotor is necessary. To clarify my earlier post, I can get the Walnut Grove stations by pointing my cheapo antenna that way, and I do get all of the major stations out of SF (Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC) when I point it that way. I was not able to get the Freemont stations.
Getting KGO VC 7 RF 7 is a surprise, that's the most difficult so the antenna does have some VHF High coverage.

I have a CM4228HD like Larry and it is just wide enough to get KGO RF 7 and KNTV RF 12. That would mean no separate VHF antenna is needed, but an amp might be necessary. Lack of Fremont Stations is suprising

Quote:
How do you guys manage the direction in which your antenna is pointed? Do you just rotate it until the station you want comes in? As I mentioned, when I was using my rotor it kept moving on it's own (maybe a neighbor's remote control?) and I always found myself getting up and going outside to see where it was pointed and how many times the coax was wrapped around the pole.
My very old rotor has a dial that shows the direction it is pointing and being hard wired no one else can turn it. It cannot rotate 360 degrees so no problem with the coax wrapping around the pole.

I just rotated it until the station I wanted came in. It is in my attic covered by a metal roof now so mainly used now for just one station. Before the metal roof when Sutro was on the initial low DTV antennas I could rotate the 4-Bay Bow Tie antenna 360 degrees trying to get KQED RF 30 during the winter without sucess. I rotated it a lot back in those days. In the summer I could park it in one place a lot of the time.

Quote:
Can you have two antennas pointed in different directions hooked up at the same time?
One VHF and one UHF yes, but two of the same type basely NEVER unless the two antennas are pointed 90 degrees apart and stations only appear only on one of the two antennas. Very rare for this to actually work.

Quote:
I have my antenna hooked up to two TVs, and a second home made coat hanger antenna on the same pole hooked to a TV in another area of the house. To share my limited experience, the coat hanger antenna gets me the same SF channels but the coax cable has to be shorter and will only support one TV while the other works on the two TVs farther away (because of the amplifier I suppose). I tried and it will not support all three TVs in the house. So I guess for my $30 what I got was an amplifier and a rotor and nothing special for an antenna. In it's defense I have gotten a year of use out of it and it will make a nice Halloween costume headdress.

Larry, thanks for the link to your antennas, very useful.

Paul
I wonder about putting a CM4228HD at the top of a roof with the wind loads you get so far north. A good solid installation would be necessary.

Adding an amp right at the antenna with power supply downstairs supplying power up the coax (The way mine was set up ~ 1970) might allow you to use a three way splitter for your three TV's. (Or Distribution amp)

That would mean all TV's would be getting either SUTRO or Walnut Grove at the same time.

A CM4228HD with an amp and rotor would be an upgrade to try for a year to see how happy you are.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 08-09-2014 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:37 PM
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Provided you're okay with using an A-B switch, two identical antennas can be used for aiming at different towers.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:26 AM
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If you're able to get Sutro and Walnut Grove stations with that antenna you got, you've got better signals at your place than what TVFool indicates.

Deltaguy has the same idea as what I have here. I had a rotor but the gusty winds broke the bearing and it was locked up.

I now have separate antennas for different directions. I put up a VHF - UHF antenna combination for local stations and for the stations in the South Bay. Since Sutro and Mt San Bruno were close I was able to find a direction where all of the stations from those locations plus the stations from the South Bay were received. A second VHF - UHF combination was put up pointing at Walnut Grove for the Mt. Diablo, Sacramento and Stockton stations, and a UHF yagi was put up pointing north for the channels in Marin and Sonoma County. The three antenna lines are sent through Distribution Amps and then are then connected to A-B-C RF switches which feed two TV sets, the DVR and my HD Home Run receivers. The antennas are locked in, but I can select any antenna I want with the push of a button.

Larry

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Old 08-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Here is the link

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c676393bdbbb

There are many hills around but I am mostly to the east of them. I'm very near the intersection of Highways 101 and 37.

Thanks!

One channel I would like to add is Get TV, which I was able to 'get' out of Sacramento KTFKDT3 64.3 by turning my antenna in that direction (lost most SF stations).
I'd ditch that antenna you have and replace it with a Winegard HD7698P or an Antennacraft HBU55. If you just have two directions you need to point to it is cheaper to buy two antennas than it is a decent rotor. By "decent rotor" I mean a ham rotor which will run you about $400 for the least expensive model.

When you have mostly 2 edge paths like you do the key to receiving the stations is for the antenna to clear the local obstructions. It cannot be pointed directly in trees or buildings. My TV Fool report for Sacramento is much worse than yours but I receive all the stations with few problems.

Chuck
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:49 AM
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Great info on the AB switch and a second antenna towards Walnut Grove, sounds like the plan.

Are there any interesting stations coming from areas other than Sutro and Walnut? I miss History, Discovery and the like from when I was getting free cable a year or so ago but I don't suppose those types are OTA.

Thanks again for helping out a newbie.

Paul
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Great info on the AB switch and a second antenna towards Walnut Grove, sounds like the plan.

Are there any interesting stations coming from areas other than Sutro and Walnut? I miss History, Discovery and the like from when I was getting free cable a year or so ago but I don't suppose those types are OTA.

Thanks again for helping out a newbie.
.
Paul
Hi,

Check Larry's lists in his signature for a great listing of stations within (within 100 miles of San Francisco).

Also http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=grid

My interest currently is B&W and Color programs from 1950 - 1980. Cozi, Get TV, Antenna TV, Me TV, The Works are active with This TV and RTV departed recently. Others are live or missing.

PBS on KQED Inc. has many shows I have watched before but new ones appear on a regularly basis.

The biggest lost for me is MHz which was on KCSM and I now must be tied to my HTPC at 6 PM or 9 PM Thursday - Sunday and Saturday at 12 Noon for International Mystery via web feed. (English Sub Titles)

My automatic capture program downloads listings and schedules captures hands off for programs I have not seen.

New "History" and "Discovery" programs pop up on PBS with a 3-5 year delay so if you wait that long you will see those programs.

If you are stuck on FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS you will be missing lots of very interesting programs. YMMV

SHF
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:28 PM
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Audio problems on 3-1, for old mono speaker tvs.... have been fixed.
So the left audio channel is working now...
K03HY RF-3 (3-1)
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post

Are there any interesting stations coming from areas other than Sutro and Walnut? I miss History, Discovery and the like from when I was getting free cable a year or so ago but I don't suppose those types are OTA.
Paul
The only basic cable channels that I know on OTA are ......QVC, Daystar, HSN, The cool tv,.... and the PBS & ION sub channels for kids.
Most of those are not on Sutro tower.

Sorry.. ...No expanded basic cable premium channels.

But... they are no longer "cable channels" .... if they are now offered over the air.
I guess charging customers extra.... for QVC in the expanded cable package.... is now a thing of the past.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:59 AM
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Great links on programming. I see (per rabbit ears link) the Bay Area is high on home shopping and low on movies compared to other areas. Ugh.

I'm also a big classic TV fan (because I'm old..) which is what started me moving my antenna away from Sutro for GET TV. MeTV, Antenna TV, Cozi and Works are high on my list, while my wife watches the major networks and I do for news. Watch PBS (KQED) too when I can get control of the remote during prime time hours.

All in all we get all we need from OTA, hopefully the future of OTA stays at least as good as it is now. Now if I could just get rid of this $70 a month internet/land line bill...

Hope to get some time this week to play with new antennas and mounting, will report back any interesting results. BTW I am building a cabin in west Marin which will be a big challenge for OTA with Mt. Tam looming large. Have a tree guy out there now climbing 200 ft. redwoods, yesterday we talked about putting an antenna on a pole rising above the trees. He says it's doable, will be my best chance at getting something.

Paul

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Old 08-11-2014, 08:08 AM
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Even at that height you probably will have trouble with the Tam shadow in west Marin....

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Old 08-11-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulamI View Post
Hope to get some time this week to play with new antennas and mounting, will report back any interesting results. BTW I am building a cabin in west Marin which will be a big challenge for OTA with Mt. Tam looming large. Have a tree guy out there now climbing 200 ft. redwoods, yesterday we talked about putting an antenna on a pole rising above the trees. He says it's doable, will be my best chance at getting something.
For an installation like that you'll need at least RG-11 coax and hardline would be better. RG-6 has too much loss even using a preamp.

Chuck
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:14 AM
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Yes, and to make matters worse I have other hills pretty much all around. Here is the TVfool link. I put 300' for the antenna height. The tree I would be using is 100' off the valley floor (roadway) and another 200' for the tree. Maybe there is some hope. What is a 'hard line' in place of coax?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c687938bfc60

If I put in 30' for the antenna I still get something

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6d6480fda14
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:17 PM
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What is a 'hard line' in place of coax?
Hard line is coaxial cable but has a solid aluminum outer shield. It often has special construction for lower loss and is available in large diameters. It's bendable but not really flexible. It can sometimes be found surplus or for free from CATV installations in miscellaneous lengths. I got some old Trilogy MC2 cable from a friend. I had a hard time finding connectors for it. I have 430' of it I'm using with my TV antennas.

Here's a brochure of their latest version.

http://www.trilogycoax.com/pdf/wirel..._Transline.pdf

Their smallest offering of 1/2" cable has 1.8 dB loss per hundred feet at channel 51.

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Old 08-11-2014, 03:37 PM
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TVFool has apparently updated their database. It's now showing K03HY and KTVJ 4 in the results. The latest update must show KTVJ as being on the air, as it's listed in the OTA listing not just the pending list.

For quite a while it's been showing KPIX's translator on channel 42 on Mt. Vaca as being on the air, too. Does anyone up in the Napa Valley see a signal from it?

Larry

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Old 08-11-2014, 06:22 PM
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TVFool has apparently updated their database. It's now showing K03HY and KTVJ 4 in the results. The latest update must show KTVJ as being on the air, as it's listed in the OTA listing not just the pending list.

For quite a while it's been showing KPIX's translator on channel 42 on Mt. Vaca as being on the air, too. Does anyone up in the Napa Valley see a signal from it?

Larry

Sometimes I wonder about TV Fool. They now show KFTY at the new location west of Sacramento but Keith has told us it may be up to 2 years before it moves.

The new list is predicting K02QX near Morgan Hill to be 13 dB stronger than KFTY in the new location.

But TV Fool can be wildly inaccurate. It shows RF 7's KAIL in Fresno with a Noise Margin of -14.4 dB, KRNV in Reno with a NM of -25.1 dB and KGO with a NM of -32.8 dB. The only problem is that KGO is the one I receive and the other two I never see.

I don't think KPIX on 42 is on the air. There's no License to Cover and I bet KPIX files the correct paperwork. I also see no trace of any signal pointed to Mt. Vaca on 42. The ERP in my direction would be very low but judging from how strong the Mt. Vaca repeater on 2M is here, I would expect to see something on the spectrum analyzer.

Chuck
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:43 PM
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Thanks for your input, Chuck. I think TVFool is the best station list available, but it leaves a lot of be desired. I don't know where they get their updates (I presume it's from the FCC) but they have stations listed as being on the air, that are not, and some stations are listed twice at different signal levels. I find that it's accurate out to about the 35 mile point - the green and yellow areas - but beyond that it's not close to what I actually receive. KMAX and KQCA have the best signals from Walnut Grove here , but it lists KXTV, KVIE and KOVR as being stronger. KQCA is listed way down in the grey area. Both KEMO and KTLN are listed way down on my list but should be in at least the yellow area as both have solid signals all the time.

Here's my TVFool list: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2f7a311959ac

The listings in the green and yellow areas are fairly accurate, but those in the red area are no where near to being right.

Larry

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html
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