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post #11341 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Sure. TVGOS, UpdateTV, Sezmi, and AirBox, I believe, all qualify as ancillary services.

- Trip

That doesn't answer my question.

Do any stations provide these services? TVGOS is gone as stated on your website. Sezmi is gone. I guess Airbox are those encrypted channels on ION but do they still exist? I couldn't figure out what the status of UpdateTV is. Seems like it would be easier to get your firmware updates over the internet.

Certainly I have not looked at all the 317 forms but I have yet to stumble upon one where the station says they are providing such services.

Instead of the FCC requiring every station to file a yearly 317 form, it would make more sense to require filing the form only if they provide such services.

Chuck
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post #11342 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 11:44 AM
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Ah, gotcha. Yes, AirBox still exists.

I don't have this year's 317, but a few months ago I got a dump of last year's. Filtering out all the N/A ones got me this list: http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=anc

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Last edited by Trip in VA; 10-21-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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post #11343 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
...

encrypted channels on ION but do they still exist?
...

Chuck
No. This scan was done 8/30/2014

Quote:
SCANNING: 635000000 (us-bcast:41)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=96 snq=68 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0195
PROGRAM 3: 65.1 ION
PROGRAM 4: 65.2 qubo
PROGRAM 5: 65.3 IONLife
PROGRAM 6: 65.4 Shop
PROGRAM 7: 65.5 HSN
PROGRAM 8: 65.6 QVC
SHF
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post #11344 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Ah, gotcha. Yes, AirBox still exists.

I don't have this year's 317, but a few months ago I got a dump of last year's. Filtering out all the N/A ones got me this list: http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=anc

- Trip

I'm surprised the list is that long. Not many stations are making any money on the services though.

Chuck
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post #11345 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 03:00 PM
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I've never found out what the two KQED and KVIE program sub-channels 8 and 9 are for. Anyone here know what they are? Maybe it has something to do with PBS.

SCANNING: 569000000 (us-bcast:30) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=91 snq=75 seq=100) TSID: 0x017F
PROGRAM 1: 9.1 KQED-HD
PROGRAM 2: 9.2 KQED+
PROGRAM 3: 9.3 WORLD
PROGRAM 8: 0 (control) <------- These two channels do not show up on regular TV receiver scans.
PROGRAM 9: 0 (control) <------- They only show up on my Home Run HD and TSReader scans.

SCANNING: 189000000 (us-bcast:9) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=64 snq=50 seq=100) TSID: 0x0159
PROGRAM 3: 6.1 KVIEHD
PROGRAM 4: 6.2 KVIE2
PROGRAM 5: 6.3 KVIEVme
PROGRAM 8: 0 (control)
PROGRAM 9: 0 (control)

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post #11346 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
I've never found out what the two KQED and KVIE program sub-channels 8 and 9 are for. Anyone here know what they are? Maybe it has something to do with PBS.
A lot of PBS stations were carrying "PBS National Datacast" since 1988. I read an announcement that most of that operation was closed on June 30, 2014. Maybe that's what those sub-channels were for. The 2013 Form 317 from KQED says no ancillary broadcasts but the KVIE Form 317 does show PBS National Datacast with no revenue. Those stations should file 317's shortly so you can check what they did in that last year.

Chuck
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post #11347 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 05:47 PM
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Yes, those hidden subchannels are/were related to Update TV (National Datacast).

- Trip

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post #11348 of 11366 Old 10-21-2014, 08:53 PM
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Thanks, Chuck and Trip, for the info.

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
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post #11349 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 12:43 AM
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KPIX 5 will have a sub-channel, 5-2 Decades, starting sometime next year.

Here's the information about the new service.

Larry

The CBS O&O group is developing a digital subchannel, partnering with Weigel Broadcasting, to launch an outlet devoted to vintage TV and pop culture.

The channel dubbed "Decades" aims to stand apart from other retro-TV services by offering wrap-around programming designed to highlight the overall theme of the day’s program slate. The anchor of this effort will be an hourlong daily program, “Decades Retrospectical,” that will examine the news and events of a particular day or period in history, and all of the programs airing that day will reflect the theme. The service will debut sometime in late Spring, 2015.

Billed as “the ultimate TV time capsule,” "Decades" will allow CBS to make use of its vast library of TV series, telepics and movies, which range from “I Love Lucy” to “Cheers” to “Beverly Hills, 90210,” as well as the archives of CBS News, “Entertainment Tonight” and other in-house resources. The channel will be carried by the 16 CBS O&Os, and offered to stations in other markets on a syndicated basis in exchange for a national/local split of advertising time.

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post #11350 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM
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KOVR is not a CBS O&O station but I hope they will consider it.

Chuck
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post #11351 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KOVR is not a CBS O&O station but I hope they will consider it.


http://www.cbscorporation.com/portfolio.php?division=96

- Trip

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post #11352 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

You're probably the only person this doesn't confuse. It seems that this is nearly impossible to figure out unless you work for the FCC. A TV Query on KOVR says the licensee is Sacramento Television Stations, Inc. Same goes for the Station Info page. Are they not the owners?

I see on your page that CBS Corporation is listed as the Operator. I guess I don't speak the legalese dialect of English because Operator and Owner are two different things.

Chuck
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post #11353 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM
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I assume STS, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of CBS. I'm sure if you're willing to dig through KOVR's ownership reports (I'm not that masochistic) you can find a nice chart showing how it's all arranged.

I use the general term "operator" because stations controlled under LMA/JSA/SSA type arrangements get lumped together, and "owner" is the wrong term. I don't have a better word than "operator."

- Trip

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post #11354 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM
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Wink Ready to buy a new ATSC 3.0 TV?

Reinvention of Broadcast TV: 10 Things to Know

Broadcasters bet its future on ATSC 3.0
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1324366


Quote:
At 1:00 a.m., Wednesday, Oct. 22, WKOW-TV in Madison, Wis., briefly shut off its digital TV signals and transmitted 4K UHDTV, 720P HD, and 480P SD signals simultaneously. Witnesses were a group of industry expert viewers, broadcast engineers in the region, and a few reporters, including EE Times.
WKOW, I watched that station .

------------------------------
They want us to buy new DTVs so they can continue in business using less channels.

But as high as Cable bills are now, it might be cheaper to buy the new DTV or another round of converter boxes. Some of the old ones are still being used.

SHF

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post #11355 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
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Hello everyone, just recently canceled Cable TV and move on to OTA. I live in San Francisco (ingleside heights), and close to the signal tower. my problem is receiving channel 2-7, channel 2 is the worse, signal always drop, especially in a sunny day. I'm using RCA ANT800 on top of the roof (Multi-Directional Outdoor Antenna).

Please help! need chennal 2 to watch the Giants game!
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post #11356 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 28mufields View Post
Hello everyone, just recently canceled Cable TV and move on to OTA. I live in San Francisco (ingleside heights), and close to the signal tower. my problem is receiving channel 2-7, channel 2 is the worse, signal always drop, especially in a sunny day. I'm using RCA ANT800 on top of the roof (Multi-Directional Outdoor Antenna).

Please help! need chennal 2 to watch the Giants game!
With that antenna maybe you are getting RF 48 from Monument Pk, but it is very unlikely so RF 44 from Sutro is likely what you are seeing for KTVU VC 2. Still if you can check it would be good to know.

Our San Francisco antenna expert hopefully will arrive soon.

KGO VC 7 RF 7 is very hard to get with a UHF antenna and as you are close to Sutro most of the signal my be going over your head. Maybe RF 44 also.

An indoor antenna that you can move around might get you the game, but we need to help you. (Low $)

You have purchased what I call a scam antenna. There are so many being sold these days that are not right for here. Even close to Sutro.

SHF
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post #11357 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28mufields View Post
Hello everyone, just recently canceled Cable TV and move on to OTA. I live in San Francisco (ingleside heights), and close to the signal tower. my problem is receiving channel 2-7, channel 2 is the worse, signal always drop, especially in a sunny day. I'm using RCA ANT800 on top of the roof (Multi-Directional Outdoor Antenna).

Please help! need chennal 2 to watch the Giants game!
I think your problems are being caused by the "multi-directional" feature of your antenna. Multi directional antennas are terrible in the San Francisco area because of all the hills. Signals reflect off of the hills and cause interference to the main signal coming from the antenna directly. The reflections are slightly delayed and when they mix with the direct signal you have problems. Usually it shows up as poor signal quality and your tuner can't handle it, so you see breakup and pixelation, or the signal drops out altogether.

Around here you need a directional antenna that will pick up the direct signal but none of the reflected signals. I live between the Castro and Noe Valley and have four sets of antennas here due to signals coming from several different directions. I have Sutro to the west, Mt San Bruno to the south, the South Bay stations to the southeast, stations up in Marin and Sonoma counties coming from the north and the stations on Mt. Diablo and Walnut Grove, where the Sacramento/Stockton stations transmit from, coming from the east. See the last link below to see what I'm using.

It's probably too late to make any changes before tomorrow's, Saturday's and Sunday's World Series games, unless you can find a local store like Fryes that has a directional UHF antenna. KTVU transmits on channel 44 from Sutro Tower, so you need a UHF antenna with some directivity. All of the stations on Sutro, except KGO 7, are transmitting on UHF, so this will also help you get the other stations, too.

In the meantime, have someone watch KTVU as you adjust your antenna for best reception. You might find that you get the best signal with the antenna NOT pointed in the direction of Sutro, but slightly off to the side one way or the other. TV signals can be very unpredictable.

Good luck... hope you find something that works by tomorrow at 5 pm.

Larry

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post #11358 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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Yes, it can get confusing, Chuck! KGO 7 is an ABC/Disney O&O, but if you look at any official documents on the station you see a variety of "owners". The FCC pages show that KGO is licensed to "KGO Television, Inc." That's one of the subsidiaries of the Disney Corporation. KABC in LA is licensed to "ABC Holding Company, Inc.", so each station is different.

When I worked at KGO, my pay check came from a completely different company name, Buena Vista, although there were Mickey Mouse ears up in the corner.

Larry

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post #11359 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 04:58 PM
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Hi,

Larry used the words that I was avoiding "Multipath" and the second one "Multi-Directional" which both may be involved. Both bad words.

I tried to find an useful indoor antenna in a store that might be near you and failed. Only online.

They would be sold out one day before you need one anyway.

So you are really down to what Larry suggested, but as you have a "Multi-Directional" antenna, maybe a friend will invite you over.

Should you see one of these:



Even without an amp, grab it.

SHF
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post #11360 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM
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Hi Larry and SFischer1:

Thank you for the reply. I'm using the Multi-Directional antenna because both Sutro and Mt San Bruno tower are in the opposite direction, I thought it will give me a better solution. It looks like I was wrong. now, I will take your advise to change to directional antenna. my other question is do I get better reception by direct point to Sutro tower, or have to search around to find a better angle because of the reflect? there's some hills b/w the Sutro tower and my house, but none with Mt San Bruno tower.
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post #11361 of 11366 Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28mufields View Post
Hi Larry and SFischer1:

Thank you for the reply. I'm using the Multi-Directional antenna because both Sutro and Mt San Bruno tower are in the opposite direction, I thought it will give me a better solution. It looks like I was wrong. now, I will take your advise to change to directional antenna. my other question is do I get better reception by direct point to Sutro tower, or have to search around to find a better angle because of the reflect? there's some hills b/w the Sutro tower and my house, but none with Mt San Bruno tower.
Point in any direction that gives you the stations you want.

Keep in mind that KGO VC 7 RF 7 is a VHF-Hi signal. You might need two antennas and an A-B switch.

KNTV VC 11 RF 12 (Also VHF-Hi) on Bruno may be no problem for even a wet noodle.

Check Larry's list at the bottom of his posts for his almost up to the minute list of stations on the air.

No you will not get them all and may not want many, I get 98 streams but I settled in a great location.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90 will show you the directions and

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 will give you the signal strengths.

SHF
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post #11362 of 11366 Old Today, 07:17 AM
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Antenna Installed

Well after some process I finally installed my new antenna on the roof. It was pretty easy with a friend who I utilized for his skills. I assembled the parts out of the box and he did the rest. Directed towards Sutro tower. The result was the TV found 45 out of 69 channels. Don't know the channels I received just specifically yet. I was blown away by the great reception and picture. Now I don't really know where to go from here. I want to utilized my AV receiver (for sound etc.) Don't know what paths to take ... Do I need to some sort of converter for Coaxial to HDMI or is there a box/ tuner (DVR) that will do the trick and many others? Suggestions? Again thanks for the great advice.
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post #11363 of 11366 Old Today, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
KOVR is an owned and operated station. Sacramento Television Stations is a subsidiary of the CBS-TV.


I work for CBS...


Bill H.
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post #11364 of 11366 Old Today, 09:01 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by howlinrock View Post
Well after some process I finally installed my new antenna on the roof. It was pretty easy with a friend who I utilized for his skills. I assembled the parts out of the box and he did the rest. Directed towards Sutro tower. The result was the TV found 45 out of 69 channels. Don't know the channels I received just specifically yet. I was blown away by the great reception and picture. Now I don't really know where to go from here. I want to utilized my AV receiver (for sound etc.) Don't know what paths to take ... Do I need to some sort of converter for Coaxial to HDMI or is there a box/ tuner (DVR) that will do the trick and many others? Suggestions? Again thanks for the great advice.
I use Mediasonic HW-150PVR (or any PVR you like) to connect b/w the antenna and tv. it has the hdmi output, and you can connect to your AV (or TV). it also can do scheduled program recording. good luck!
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post #11365 of 11366 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howlinrock View Post
The result was the TV found 45 out of 69 channels. Don't know the channels I received just specifically yet.

You probably will want to compare the channels scanned in compared to your TV Fool list to see if anything was missed.

Chuck
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post #11366 of 11366 Old Today, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howlinrock View Post
Well after some process I finally installed my new antenna on the roof. It was pretty easy with a friend who I utilized for his skills. I assembled the parts out of the box and he did the rest. Directed towards Sutro tower. The result was the TV found 45 out of 69 channels. Don't know the channels I received just specifically yet. I was blown away by the great reception and picture. Now I don't really know where to go from here. I want to utilized my AV receiver (for sound etc.) Don't know what paths to take ... Do I need to some sort of converter for Coaxial to HDMI or is there a box/ tuner (DVR) that will do the trick and many others? Suggestions? Again thanks for the great advice.
Cool pics of the installation. I have a question if anyone knows. What are the large pieces of elements for that go along the boom between the smaller elements on the yagi portion? On a simple yagi you do not see those, but on some higher end ones you see the larger ones. I'd like to know what they are for and even better yet what are they called ie reflector deflector dipole etc.
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