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post #11491 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
I thought I might have a good chance of finding out what the mystery station was earlier tonight. The channel 13 signal was getting stronger, bit by bit, but peaked at 14.3 dB SNR and then started going back down. Sometime I'll find out.
Larry
I see RF 13 & RF 8 (KSBW) a little "higher than normal" tonight. @ 11pm
11/24
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post #11492 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
I see RF 13 & RF 8 (KSBW) a little "higher than normal" tonight. @ 11pm
11/24

I saw huge signals coming from Salinas this morning around 10 am. KMUV analog was full quieting and K29AB was almost full quieting. KION was about 25 dB above average and SNR 32 dB, a number seen only on KSBW previously. KQET on RF 25 (1.8 KW ERP) was as strong as the KOVR usually is and was overriding KOVR for awhile. Overall everything from down there was 20-30 dB above average. Signals were dropping by 11 am. Most other signals were below average.

Chuck
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post #11493 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 02:15 PM
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I tried to post last night, but the AVS site was having problems and I couldn't save my post.

After seeing Ben's post I took a look around the channels and the Walnut Grove stations were all above average. The two VHF stations were much stronger than usual. Stations from up north in Marin and Sonoma and from the South Bay were just at their average levels.

This morning signals are all about normal here.

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post #11494 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 04:46 PM
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Since I posted a couple hours ago, signals from Walnut Grove have gone through the roof! Both VHF stations - 6 and 10, and five of the UHF stations - 3, 13, 21, 35 and 46 are all above 20 dB SNR right now. KMAX is coming in at 29.5 to 30 dB! KTNC from Mt. Diablo is also 3 dB stronger than usual at 26 dB.

Both KSPX 29 and whatever station is coming in on channel 13 are SO CLOSE to being detected for the first time, but neither one can get past 14.5 dB to make it over the cliff edge.

Despite the extra strong signals from the east and northeast, the signals from up north and down south are still at about normal levels.

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post #11495 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 04:57 PM
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I've been getting KFTY, 3, off of my CM 4228! Unbelievable!

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post #11496 of 11510 Old 11-25-2014, 09:34 PM
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KGO Problems?

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From: scasse@sonic.net [HDTV-in-SFbay]
To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:53 PM
Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] ABC 7-1 Reception Issues

In all my years of flawless OTA HDTV, last night and tonight ABC 7-1 has been breaking up very badly. It happened last night about the same time, around 7:45pm. It lasts for a few minutes and is then fine for the rest of the evening. Anybody else experiencing this? I don't see this on the other stations.
KGO VC 7 RF 7 has a translator on RF 35 from Mt. Allison, are you sure that you are not using it. Problems often occur with RF 35.

The chart for KGO VC 7 RF 7 shows no glitches, but as the samples are ~ 30 minutes apart it is not definitive.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=7

Could there be something in your house that is in use at that time that is causing interference?

I will ask on avs.

Any problem with RF 7 would be very unusual.

SHF





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post #11497 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
KTNC from Mt. Diablo is also 3 dB stronger than usual at 26 dB.
It's puzzling to me as to why you don't receive KTNC much better. You're just 30 miles away and I assume you can see Mt. Diablo from your roof. It's seems like it ought to be max SNR all the time. Unfortunately I didn't measure KTNC when I was there. That probably would have answered it.

KTNC is 80 miles from here, almost LOS and the SNR is typically 31 dB, although it does drop at times to as low as 25 dB. KTNC and KTXL are about the same signal strength here.
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post #11498 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
KGO VC 7 RF 7 has a translator on RF 35 from Mt. Allison, are you sure that you are not using it. Problems often occur with RF 35.

The chart for KGO VC 7 RF 7 shows no glitches, but as the samples are ~ 30 minutes apart it is not definitive.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=7

Could there be something in your house that is in use at that time that is causing interference?

I will ask on avs.

Any problem with RF 7 would be very unusual.

SHF





Thanks. I responded in the Yahoo group but to answer your interference question, I can't think of anything in the house that would all of a sudden cause a brief interference at the same time every night (at least the last two nights) and then go away. I've always used RF 7, which has always been reliable and rock solid for me. I'll see if it happens again tonight at the same time frame during Wheel
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post #11499 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
I've been getting KFTY, 3, off of my CM 4228! Unbelievable!

Do you mean K03HY on RF 3 or KFTY on RF 2?

I wonder if Keith moved the antennas for K03HY? A few days ago I noticed that I can barely find an antenna location where KCSO on RF 3 will decode. Up until then it was typically SNR 28 db when pointed at it. I checked it on the analyzer and the signal strength is unchanged and the Sony AGC says the same thing. The only explanation is that K03HY has become much stronger.

Maybe this is why you're getting RF 3(?) now.

I have KFTY RF 2 on now and its SNR is fine but there are major dropouts.

Chuck
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post #11500 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Do you mean K03HY on RF 3 or KFTY on RF 2?

I wonder if Keith moved the antennas for K03HY? A few days ago I noticed that I can barely find an antenna location where KCSO on RF 3 will decode. Up until then it was typically SNR 28 db when pointed at it. I checked it on the analyzer and the signal strength is unchanged and the Sony AGC says the same thing. The only explanation is that K03HY has become much stronger.

Maybe this is why you're getting RF 3(?) now.

I have KFTY RF 2 on now and its SNR is fine but there are major dropouts.

Chuck
It may well be 2 rather than 3. I pick it up on my Dish Hopper and it scans multiple channels, one at a time. It seems that it shows channels on 3 but it may well be 2.... I'll try later to see what my Sharp scan will do...

Bobby 

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post #11501 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Thanks. I responded in the Yahoo group but to answer your interference question, I can't think of anything in the house that would all of a sudden cause a brief interference at the same time every night (at least the last two nights) and then go away. I've always used RF 7, which has always been reliable and rock solid for me. I'll see if it happens again tonight at the same time frame during Wheel
Your location (ZIP code only) would be helpful.

The reception reports (Which do not include KGO VC 7 RF 7) have been all over up and down lately. You may have read them.

KGO VC 7 VHF-Hi RF 7 is the most difficult station to receive so reporting your antenna type also would be helpful. A link to your TVFool may also help and reports only the ZIP code.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

It is sort of like the NFL referee going under the hood to check a play when a Red Flag was thrown. The entire play is looked at, not just what the coach thought he saw.


EDIT: Operator Error, I had the tuners mixed up, 1,2,3,4 went to 3,4,1,2 Attic UHF antenna does not receive VHF-Hi.
BTW, your report had a bad side effect for me. I just recently had to replace my original HDHR box which has two tuners. The replacement has only one antenna connection for the two tuners. I was shocked to discover that the second tuner does not get RF 7 and RF 12 is poor. I will need to check all stations.

SHF

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post #11502 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Your location (ZIP code only) would be helpful.

The reception reports (Which do not include KGO VC 7 RF 7) have been all over up and down lately. You may have read them.

KGO VC 7 VHF-Hi RF 7 is the most difficult station to receive so reporting your antenna type also would be helpful. A link to your TVFool may also help and reports only the ZIP code.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

It is sort of like the NFL referee going under the hood to check a play when a Red Flag was thrown. The entire play is looked at, not just what the coach thought he saw.

BTW, your report had a bad side effect for me. I just recently had to replace my original HDHR box which has two tuners. The replacement has only one antenna connection for the two tuners. I was shocked to discover that the second tuner does not get RF 7 and RF 12 is poor. I will need to check all stations.

SHF
I'm out in the Evergreen Area of San Jose. We have never had any reception issues since the inception of HDTV with 7-1, 5-1, 11-1, 2-1, etc. Antenna is roof mounted and our LOS is almost perfect, even from down here. Weather has really never been a factor. The antenna is a 30+ year old Winegard, UHF-VHF-FM, 72 elements. 7-1 seemed ok tonight so who knows? Checked out other stations and all is well. Probably just an anomaly.
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post #11503 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 11:53 PM
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"Normal Conditions"

Bill Martin on KTVU news at 10 PM said the atmosphere was very stable the last two days. That there was little mixing of the layers. Third "Spare the Air Day in a row.

I consider this to match Chuck's description of "Normal Conditions". (Yes it was a long time ago he posted that.)

Any mixing may cause better or worse reception.

I sure would like Bill to post a satellite picture of the bay area looking like it was filled half way up with milk.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It was many decades ago that I read how a data center solved it's continuing problem of back up tapes being unreadable. They could not figure why until someone happened to be working very late and saw the big floor polishing machine being used. The motor had such a strong field that it was erasing the tapes on the lower shelf.

Perhaps the problem of KGO being bad the same time each day needs some out of the box thinking. If it is un-watch able have someone watch the screen and someone else take two laps around the house inside and outside.
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post #11504 of 11510 Old Yesterday, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I saw huge signals coming from Salinas this morning around 10 am. KMUV analog was full quieting and K29AB was almost full quieting. KION was about 25 dB above average and SNR 32 dB, a number seen only on KSBW previously. KQET on RF 25 (1.8 KW ERP) was as strong as the KOVR usually is and was overriding KOVR for awhile. Overall everything from down there was 20-30 dB above average. Signals were dropping by 11 am. Most other signals were below average.

Chuck
What is K29AB? In the 1970s it was a translator station for KICU channel 36 (then KGSC) to serve the Salinas area.
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post #11505 of 11510 Old Today, 12:04 AM
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What is K29AB? In the 1970s it was a translator station for KICU channel 36 (then KGSC) to serve the Salinas area.
From the last report I have seen it still is but now digital.

I remember KTVU asking if anyone was watching, apparently the answer was yes.

SHF
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post #11506 of 11510 Old Today, 01:23 AM
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It's puzzling to me as to why you don't receive KTNC much better. You're just 30 miles away and I assume you can see Mt. Diablo from your roof.
No, I don't have a direct shot at Mt. Diablo. The hill next to our home rises for two blocks to about 75 feet higher directly to the east of us, so even with the antenna at about 40 feet above ground, the signals from KTNC and KDTS have to bend over that hill to reach us.

We have the same problem with the signals from the South Bay. That same hill continues rising to the south to about 100 to 125 feet high two blocks to the southeast of us, so we don't have a direct shot in that direction either. To the south we have Diamond Heights but Mt. San Bruno is visible over that. The only direction where we have no hills in the way to distant stations is north-northeast. That's why we get the Marin and Sonoma County stations so well here. It's line of sight to Mt. St. Helena 65 miles away, and KEMO is solid in here as a result.

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post #11507 of 11510 Old Today, 01:41 AM
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A viewer from Volcano, up in the Sierra foothills, reported that he's receiving two of the One Ministry low power stations, KKPM 28 from Sutter Buttes and KFTY 45 (RF2) from Mt. St. Helena.

As for K03HY from Mt. Tamalpais, the signal has dropped a 2 to 3 dB here in San Francisco in the past week.

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post #11508 of 11510 Old Today, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sted View Post
What is K29AB? In the 1970s it was a translator station for KICU channel 36 (then KGSC) to serve the Salinas area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
From the last report I have seen it still is but now digital.

I remember KTVU asking if anyone was watching, apparently the answer was yes.

SHF

K29AB is still analog on Fremont Peak and a translator for KICU. I receive it weakly except under extremely good conditions when the picture is about 90% quieting. See the attached ID slide.

I don't know why it hasn't gone digital or if it ever will.

Chuck
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post #11509 of 11510 Old Today, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
A viewer from Volcano, up in the Sierra foothills, reported that he's receiving two of the One Ministry low power stations, KKPM 28 from Sutter Buttes and KFTY 45 (RF2) from Mt. St. Helena.

As for K03HY from Mt. Tamalpais, the signal has dropped a 2 to 3 dB here in San Francisco in the past week.

Larry

Volcano is just in the next county north of here so he must be blocked to KMMW on 28 to be able to see KKPM. Nothing is going to challenge KMMW here.


So now there are 3 reports of a change in status on RF 3. Keith must have done something with the antennas. I've asked him about this via a PM.

The attached image shows the pattern of my low VHF antenna measured on RF 3. K03HY is at 260° and KCSO is at 235° as noted on the image. That puts K03HY only 1 dB down on the pattern when pointed at KCSO. KCSO has an SNR peak when I point the antenna at 180°. I noted where on the pattern that places KCSO (9 dB down) and K03HY (23 dB down). That increases the KCSO/K03HY ratio by 13 dB. This morning that gave KCSO a 7 dB noise margin as opposed to a negative margin when I point at KCSO.

Chuck
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post #11510 of 11510 Old Today, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I'm out in the Evergreen Area of San Jose. We have never had any reception issues since the inception of HDTV with 7-1, 5-1, 11-1, 2-1, etc. Antenna is roof mounted and our LOS is almost perfect, even from down here. Weather has really never been a factor. The antenna is a 30+ year old Winegard, UHF-VHF-FM, 72 elements. 7-1 seemed ok tonight so who knows? Checked out other stations and all is well. Probably just an anomaly.

Our recording of the Charlie Brown Thanksgiving Special pixelated at about 8:40 last night on KGO-DT, and the reception issues lasted about 5 minutes, luckily, and that was that.

And just so there is no confusion, KGO-LD from Mount Allison is deleted off our tivo's channel list, so the issue is 100% related to reception from Sutro. We're about 5 miles south of Otto Pylot.

All complaints aside, Happy Thanksgiving to all board members, and looking forward to a big weekend of College Football in sparkling OTA HD.
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