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post #91 of 11188 Old 09-19-2004, 12:47 PM
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I live in San Francisco's Inner Sunset district. I'm only a little over a mile from Mt. Sutro, but I don't have direct line-of-sight. I'm near the top on the other side of a hill between Sutro and my house. I have an antenna on my roof -- an Antennasdirect SR15 (yagi style). It's easily the best I've tried. I was using a Radio Shack yagi-style... not very good in my situation. I think I have real multipath issues given where I live, but the SR15 reall seems to be doing the job. It appears to be a very well constructed antenna.

Anyway, I'm finding that all of the stations come in very well. KPIX, KRON, KGO, KQED, KBWB, KBHK. All strong signals. All except KTVU (Fox).

KTVU (Fox) is very spotty. The SR15 is giving me the best signal so far of any antenna I've tried (watching the 49ers/Saints right now), but KTVU is not nearly as strong as the others. And it cuts out somewhat frequently. It's very inconsistent (btw, it's a beautiful, sunny day in SF).

Does this issue have more to do with how KTVU is broadcasting? Maybe not using much power? (I'm still learning about HD OTA). All the stations I mentioned are broadcasting from Sutro (according to antennaweb.org), so I don't see why I would have to adjust my antenna. Again... good, consistently, strong signals from all the other stations broadcasting from Sutro, except KTVU (Fox).

I'm tired of going onto my roof (I hate ladders) I think I've found a very nice antenna. If someone can tell me that the inconsistent signal is due to KTVU and not me, I'd be a lot happier. I'll stop messing with the antenna. I just want to know I've done all I can to get a good signal.

So, is it me or KTVU?

Thanks very much in advance.... Brian
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post #92 of 11188 Old 09-19-2004, 02:33 PM
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I'm not sure Brian. I have some problems with KTVU also. I believe I'm pretty much line of sight with Sutro, but I'm in Berkeley. I usually don't get as good an analog signal from KTVU as the other network stations that broadcast from Sutro and the digital signal often also has problems. Today, for instance, and last Sunday I had audio cutouts occasionally. Last Sunday it was HDTV in the AM and today it was just SD digital. On 9/13, Greeno (Jeff) said that KTVU had problems that accounted for these audio difficulties.
- - - -
On another score, I figure I need another antenna. I have two rooftop antennas. The first used to be used for analog but I had pretty severe ghosting, which I believe is evidence of multipath issues. I went to a local independent electronics supply store (Al Lasher's in Berkeley) and they sold me a Winegard Chromstar II antighosting antenna and I took the other antenna off the mast, put up the Winegard and was quite pleased that my ghosts were basically a thing of the past. This was over 10 years ago.

I just went digital, having bought the MyHD 120 HDTV PCI card + daughterboard, and find that the Winegard does a pretty good job supplying antenna signals to the card. The other antenna is still on the roof (it just sits up there - no mast, but I put 2 or 3 bricks on the arms to keep the wind from moving it). I have it hooked up to the second antenna input of the MyHD card, and I have the antennas pointed about 90 degrees opposite of each other. I'm using the Winegard for NBC and the multipath susceptible antenna (seated on the roof) for Sutro. Thing is, it does OK for Sutro with the MyHD, which I only use for digital basically anyway. But I have both antennas hooked up to an analog TV (A/B switch) and am suffering bad multipath again when not using the Winegard anti-ghoster, but I don't use that for most stations since it's highly directional and pointed away from Sutro. Al Lasher's no longer sells antennas so I wonder if someone can recommend a logical choice in a second antenna - one that will pull in good digital and analog signals and be pretty multipath resistant (anti-ghosting). Thanks for recommendations.
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post #93 of 11188 Old 09-19-2004, 03:31 PM
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Muse.... I'm not an antenna expert, nor do I have the experience you have with them. But I've been very happy with the antenna I bought from antennasdirect.com. I email them before I purchased the antenna, and the gentleman (Richard) responded right away. And I feel he gave me very good advice. I explained my situation, and he didnt' recommend the most expensive solution. Another vendor said I needed a preamp and a bigger bowtie antenna; Richard said a preamp would probably not help (I also have a long coax run). He was right... I tried a preamp (bought it at Lowe's, so easy to return), and it was no help. These antennas seem very sturdy to me. My new SR15 puts the Radio Shack antenna I had to shame.

Hope this is useful... Brian
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post #94 of 11188 Old 09-19-2004, 05:48 PM
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Here's one thing to note: on KRON, in the morning, they have posted a crawl on the screen every day for a while now, that they are working on their antenna and that the signal will be improved as soon as possible. I wonder if that is true of all of Sutro's digital broadcasts. I literally sit at a bird's eye view of the tower from Nob Hill and I find I have to tweak my rooftop antenna when changing channels now. How come none of our local experts have chimed in on these reception issues?

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post #95 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 07:47 AM
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Brian, who is the manufacturer (brand?) of your SR15? Sturdy does count for a lot, however both my antennas seem OK after double digit years of use. I figure I definitely need to replace my older antenna. It would be OK if I didn't use the signals also with my analog TV, but it doesn't cut it right now. I just love the fact that the MyHD 120 card has two antenna inputs!

I would never think to shop for an antenna at Radio Shack unless I got really really good recommendations for them. Now, a few years back I did see top-notch recommendations (likely in these forums) for a Radio Shack antenna amplifier. Most of them are not very effective, but this one was supposed to be the best (for certain uses, anyway). I looked at it but didn't buy - just made a note of the fact that I might want to buy it at some future time.

I believe that antennaweb Internet site makes recommendations for certain antennas but I don't know how realistic those are. Again, I'd like something more concrete in the way of advice before making a buying decision. It's not buying a car, etc., but I hate to make the wrong purchase decisions - I usually research them pretty well before buying.
- - - -
GregF, KRON went off the air for a few hours the other day, both the SD and HDTV channels. The HDTV is appreciated because it's an HD-only station, apparently the only one I can get and they appear to be on all the time.
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post #96 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 07:50 AM
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Opening Sunday (at least the morning games, Fox and CBS) were in HD. The games I got yesterday on Fox and CBS were SD. What's their strategy? Will there be occasional HD NFL broadcasts or will that cease until the playoffs?

I figure that all the ABC NFL broadcasts (Madden and Michaels) will continue to be in HD.
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post #97 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 07:55 AM
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I'm having trouble figuring out what the situation is. I get the Sunday S.F. Chronicle, and the TV magazine included has a few HD listings for each day, but they are evidently incomplete (for instance, they don't include the KRON-HD programming or KQED HD programming), and they aren't user friendly enough to include HD info in the schedule itself. Is there any other resource I can use? I do have direct TitanTV tie-in with my MyHD 120 HDTV card, and that shows "HD" in the schedules for HD broadcasts.

In the same vein, does anyone have any kind of idea in what manner HD programming OTA might be ramping up in the Bay Area? Thanks!
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post #98 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 08:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Muse
Brian, who is the manufacturer (brand?) of your SR15? Sturdy does count for a lot, however both my antennas seem OK after double digit years of use. I figure I definitely need to replace my older antenna. It would be OK if I didn't use the signals also with my analog TV, but it doesn't cut it right now. I just love the fact that the MyHD 120 card has two antenna inputs!

I was under the impression they made their own antennas. But I saw this in a posting in the Cleveland reception thread: "A very well built antenna by the way. Apprently made by an Alvin Corp. out of Australia. The boom is a heavy gauge milled aluminum, not the typical thin-metal boom assemblies I've seen with the Radio Shack type VHF/UHF outdoor antennas."

Anyway, I would definitely check them out when making a decision. I've seen antennasdirect.com mentioned quite often here on the boards, and folks seem to have only good things to say about their antennas. They also have a good return policy, at least according to their web site.

Good luck.... Brian
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post #99 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Muse
I'm having trouble figuring out what the situation is. I get the Sunday S.F. Chronicle, and the TV magazine included has a few HD listings for each day, but they are evidently incomplete (for instance, they don't include the KRON-HD programming), and they aren't user friendly enough to include HD info in the schedule itself. Is there any other resource I can use. I do have direct TitanTV tie-in with my MyHD 120 HDTV card, and that shows "HD" in the schedules for HD broadcasts.

In the same vein, does anyone have any kind of idea in what manner HD programming OTA might be ramping up in the Bay Area? Thanks!

Edit: Poking around I see that there is an HD-only guide-for-the-day at TitanTV, but using and seeing it are pretty kludgy: You have to scroll up and down and the smallish window isn't resizable.

It sounds like you are in the command center page. If so, there is a "View Full Guide" that shows a lot more detail. You can change the number of hours to display on a horizontal line. You can scroll vertically for all the channels. The best thing to do is set up the "my favorites" page. I think once you get over the u/i, Titan TV is very easy to use.
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post #100 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 05:29 PM
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Anybody know what is up with CBS football out here in the Bay Area? For some reason when they have a scheduled doubled header they often change to a single header. I understand why they black out the raiders games, but why not show any other games. I was expecting to get some good HD action today from CBS, but it looks like CBS is short changing us and not giving us the double header. If anybody knows what is going on, please share.

If anybody is interested, I answered my own question. I emailed KPIX and they were actually nice enough to answer. Turns out my hunch was correct.
Quote:
By NFL rules we are not allowed to air a morning game if the afternoon Raider game isn't a sellout. This was the case this past weekend. Since the Raiders didn't sellout we were penalized twice (no Raider game and no morning doubleheader game).
CBS 5 Programming

So if you like football and don't like the raiders, be happy when they are on the road.
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post #101 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muse

GregF, KRON went off the air for a few hours the other day, both the SD and HDTV channels. The HDTV is appreciated because it's an HD-only station, apparently the only one I can get and they appear to be on all the time.

That's not what I'm talking about. They frequently run a message that their antenna is undergoing maintenance, not to adjust your sets, problem will be fixed ASAP. I don't recall the exact wording. I'm wondering if this is true of all digital broadcasts from sutro, and KRON is the only one addressing it, and that is what is causing so many to have more trouble tuning in various sutro signals than previously.

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post #102 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tn1
By NFL rules we are not allowed to air a morning game if the afternoon Raider game isn't a sellout. This was the case this past weekend. Since the Raiders didn't sellout we were penalized twice (no Raider game and no morning doubleheader game).
CBS 5 Programming

Wow. That really bites the big one. What makes it worse is that I don't think this was the case until this year. My memory may be a little hazy but I remember there being quite a few double headers last year, and during Raider's home games. And no, not the sold out ones. There are very few of those.

Anyways, thanks to tn1 for the info.


p.s. Raider fan and proud of it.

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post #103 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by ilikemyHT
What makes it worse is that I don't think this was the case until this year. My memory may be a little hazy but I remember there being quite a few double headers last year, and during Raider's home games.

I think your memory may be a little hazy.

The rule has been in at least as long as the current contract and since it's been an NFL priority to black out an area with a game that's not sold out, it's probably been in every NFL/TV contract.

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post #104 of 11188 Old 09-20-2004, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GregF
That's not what I'm talking about. They frequently run a message that their antenna is undergoing maintenance, not to adjust your sets, problem will be fixed ASAP. I don't recall the exact wording. I'm wondering if this is true of all digital broadcasts from sutro, and KRON is the only one addressing it, and that is what is causing so many to have more trouble tuning in various sutro signals than previously.

It is my understanding that whenever work is done on Sutro Tower the other transmitters need to be turned off or at reduced power. Since all these antennas are grouped so closely together if they are working in one section they need to turn all of them off otherwise the workers would be toasted. The fact that there has been really no outages of all the digital transmitters for a period of time like there was earlier in the year when the tower was being earthquake retrofitted makes me think whatever KRON is doing may be at the tower site but not actually on the tower itself.

I don't get much at all OTA up here, but have you had times when all the stations were down? That would be a clear indication that antenna work is being done.

At least KRON lets the viewers know when the signal is going to be suspect, I never heard of any of the other stations doing that.

Not that any of that answers your question...

I would call their engineering dept and ask them.

Jim
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post #105 of 11188 Old 09-21-2004, 12:04 AM
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No, wait, I wasn't saying they haven't always been blacking out the home game. Just that they usually play another game in it's slot. Not take the slot away all together. And that this was done even on double header days.

I know no one else is gonna back me up on this, cause it's a year in the past, but now it's like this vague recollection I just can't make out clearly and it's just gonna bug me the rest of the season every time there was supposed to be a double header. Doh!

Oh well. I'll just go back to taking my meds.

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post #106 of 11188 Old 09-21-2004, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ilikemyHT
No, wait, I wasn't saying they haven't always been blacking out the home game. Just that they usually play another game in it's slot. Not take the slot away all together. And that this was done even on double header days.

I know no one else is gonna back me up on this, cause it's a year in the past, but now it's like this vague recollection I just can't make out clearly and it's just gonna bug me the rest of the season every time there was supposed to be a double header. Doh!

Oh well. I'll just go back to taking my meds.

No, I really think you are right. They used to air other games. I guess the NFL thinks that if the fans anticipate Jonesing on football if they don't get their telecasts, they will buy tickets instead. Of course, there's always Fox! Hey, there's only so much football you can take. I'm not THAT big of an NFL fan, personally. Anyway, I like the Fox coverage at LOT better, at least in terms of the in-studio commentators. Bradshaw, Long, Brown and Collinsworth beat the pants off of those CBS guys.
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post #107 of 11188 Old 09-21-2004, 10:57 AM
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I live on the peninsula (Belmont) with clear line of sight to Sutro so I'm getting ABC, CBS, Fox HD programming fine. I'm getting these via HD Tivo tuner or via tuner in my Mits DLP. NBC is still the problem. I occasionally get 48.2 from Mt. Allison above Fremont but it's rare. I tried getting a waiver via DirectTV for the LA NBC feed but I was rejected. I have an old but good antenna on top of the roof but it is of course pointed at Sutro. Is anyone on the Peninsula or toward SF getting NBC? What's the solution - a second antenna pointed south? I'm not real confident in the rotator type of antennas. Any word on when NBC is moving to Mt. San Bruno?
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post #108 of 11188 Old 09-21-2004, 12:55 PM
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Any word on when NBC is moving to Mt. San Bruno?

There was a notice that NBC's request to move to Mt. San Bruno had been approved in August. I don't know how long it will take them to do it.

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post #109 of 11188 Old 09-21-2004, 02:23 PM
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post #110 of 11188 Old 09-22-2004, 04:59 PM
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Other OTA channels (KTVU, KPIX, KQED) are coming in. But lost KGO.
I am using the HDTivo box.
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post #111 of 11188 Old 09-22-2004, 09:40 PM
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Watching KGO-DT LOST with no problems,
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post #112 of 11188 Old 09-23-2004, 10:00 AM
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Same here!! I am in Peninsula region in LOS ALTOS, used to get KGO fine!! But not any more!!

I have tried changing antenna to Omni Direction one! changed reciever..No luck! altogether!

Any solution?
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post #113 of 11188 Old 09-23-2004, 11:47 AM
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Hi
I'm a "brand-new" to this forum, Please help me on this matter:
With Samsung SIR-T351 and CM4228 I only got 2 channels NBC (11.1, 11.2 and 14.1) I did spend sometime to adjust the CM4228 (I live in South San Jose at Monterey and Branham lane) and on my Samsung SIR-T351, I got 7 to 9 bars on signal strengh.... I did check on Antennaweb for all the avaibility of OTA on my area by typing my address and it told me that I might get around 8 channels on HDTV and 24 channels on SDTV....I don't know what else to do......because I did stay on my roof for a whlie my CM4228....
Any helps at all will be appreciate.
Thanks a lot in advance
Dennis - DLe6
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post #114 of 11188 Old 09-23-2004, 12:05 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by dle6
[b]Hi
I'm a "brand-new" to this forum, Please help me on this matter:
With Samsung SIR-T351 and CM4228 I only got 2 channels NBC (11.1, 11.2 and 14.1) I did spend sometime to adjust the CM4228 (I live in South San Jose at Monterey and Branham lane) and on my Samsung SIR-T351, I got 7 to 9 bars on signal strengh....

I live in the Evergreen Area of San Jose and when I tested my system using the same tuner as you, I was able to get practically everything that comes off of Sutro. I even got channel 11 (48.2 I think) which was coming from the Telemundo "tower" in Fremont. I'm not familiar with the CM4228 antenna. Mine is an 18-year old Winegard log-periodic VHF-UHF-FM antenna. It sits on my roof on top of a 15-foot mast. It has a rotor but I never bothered to move it because it picked-up everthing right off. There are no trees or any obstructions that I can see. It looks like I've got a straight shot up the peninsula at Sutro. I've since returned the Samsung and am waiting for the LG LST-4200A which should be in next week.

How high up is your antenna, do you have a rotor, and are there any obstructions that you can see?
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post #115 of 11188 Old 09-23-2004, 01:09 PM
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Thanks for quick responding.

I don't have a rotor, I don't see any obstructions around and my antenna is only 15 feet high ( I will raise my antenna up to 35 feet from the ground this weekend) how may HDTV channel and SDTV do you get ?
Why do you have to return that Samsung SIR-T351, is there a problem with it or the the LG LST-4200A is better ?

Thanks for your help again.

Dennis - DLe6

How much do you pay for that the LG LST-4200A ? Where did you get it ?
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post #116 of 11188 Old 09-24-2004, 11:58 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by dle6
[b]Thanks for quick responding.

I don't have a rotor, I don't see any obstructions around and my antenna is only 15 feet high ( I will raise my antenna up to 35 feet from the ground this weekend) how may HDTV channel and SDTV do you get ?

If your antenna is only 15 feet off of the ground that may be your problem. Mine is probably about 35 or 40 feet off of the ground. As far as analog tv goes I get 2,4,5,7,9,11(with another smaller antenna pointed south),20,36,44,54 and a few other oddballs all crystal clear. I don't remember how many digital stations I got because I returned the Samsung but it was quite a few. Certainly all of the digital equivalents of the analog stations. My tv, at the time of the test, was an old Sony XBR (analog) but all of the digital stations came in very nicely. And the sound was exceptional. Now that we have the new Sony HD-ready tv I'm ready to do HD on a permanent basis.

Why do you have to return that Samsung SIR-T351, is there a problem with it or the the LG LST-4200A is better ?

The Samsung worked just fine it's just that I've read and heard from quite a few folks that the LG is probably the best on the market now for OTA only receivers. The only authorized LG distributor in the San Jose area is Century Stereo and they won't be getting their first shipments until early October. Century's price will be about $280. The tuner is ATSC/NTSC/QAM only.

Oh yeah. I replaced all of the coax cable that comes from the antenna to where it connects in the garage with double-shielded RG-6. The cableing inside of the house is whatever the builder put in 18 years ago, probably RG-55 or 56.
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post #117 of 11188 Old 09-24-2004, 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by ilikemyHT
No, wait, I wasn't saying they haven't always been blacking out the home game. Just that they usually play another game in it's slot. Not take the slot away all together. And that this was done even on double header days.

I know no one else is gonna back me up on this, cause it's a year in the past, but now it's like this vague recollection I just can't make out clearly and it's just gonna bug me the rest of the season every time there was supposed to be a double header. Doh!

Oh well. I'll just go back to taking my meds.

As it turns out, it has been this way for quite a few years. Very frustrating, I know. I do remember this for the last few years. The circumstances are:

- We lose the double header because the network opposite of the network carrying home Raider game is the network owning the rights to show a double header. They can't show the afternoon game opposite of said home Raider game because of NFL rule.

- You lose Raider game because it's not sold out (editorial: Raider Nation = just a lot of blowhards that don't know anything about football and call JT (The Brick) but don't go to games).

- Network carrying Raider game replaces it with another game.

On the other hand, if the network carrying the non-sellout Raider game is the network with the double header, we're in the clear.

Now, why the other network isn't allowed to put back on the game that they're not allowed to show opposite of Raider game (that's not being shown anyway) is beyond me. I guess there is some rule against it, but it's been going on for a while.

Not a Raider fan and have always resented living in the same area because of things like this. What sucks is that even on days when they do sell out, I lose my double header AND I have to watch the Raiders.

go bears (Cal bears, that is...)
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post #118 of 11188 Old 09-24-2004, 03:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dle6

Why do you have to return that Samsung SIR-T351, is there a problem with it or the the LG LST-4200A is better ?


The LG LST-4200A is supposed to be the cat's meow as far as ATSC tuners until LG comes out with their 5th gen chip model, probably late this year or early next
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Originally posted by dle6

How much do you pay for that the LG LST-4200A ? Where did you get it ?

Yes, where did you get it? Locally hopefully?

Jim
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post #119 of 11188 Old 09-26-2004, 12:20 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Otto Pylot
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Originally posted by dle6
Thanks for quick responding.

I don't have a rotor, I don't see any obstructions around and my antenna is only 15 feet high ( I will raise my antenna up to 35 feet from the ground this weekend) how may HDTV channel and SDTV do you get ?

If your antenna is only 15 feet off of the ground that may be your problem. Mine is probably about 35 or 40 feet off of the ground. As far as analog tv goes I get 2,4,5,7,9,11(with another smaller antenna pointed south),20,36,44,54 and a few other oddballs all crystal clear. I don't remember how many digital stations I got because I returned the Samsung but it was quite a few. Certainly all of the digital equivalents of the analog stations. My tv, at the time of the test, was an old Sony XBR (analog) but all of the digital stations came in very nicely. And the sound was exceptional. Now that we have the new Sony HD-ready tv I'm ready to do HD on a permanent basis.

Why do you have to return that Samsung SIR-T351, is there a problem with it or the the LG LST-4200A is better ?

The Samsung worked just fine it's just that I've read and heard from quite a few folks that the LG is probably the best on the market now for OTA only receivers. The only authorized LG distributor in the San Jose area is Century Stereo and they won't be getting their first shipments until early October. Century's price will be about $280. The tuner is ATSC/NTSC/QAM only.

Oh yeah. I replaced all of the coax cable that comes from the antenna to where it connects in the garage with double-shielded RG-6. The cableing inside of the house is whatever the builder put in 18 years ago, probably RG-55 or 56.

Hi
I just got me CM 4228 on the highest place of roof about 35 feet oof the ground....now I got few channels (around 15 for both SDTV & HDTV).... I have to do a lilte fine tune on my antenna tomorrow.......
I'll list the detail of all the channels that I'll get later....
Again, Thanks for your help a lot.
Dennis - DLe6
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post #120 of 11188 Old 09-26-2004, 09:18 AM
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my kgo just reappeared last night
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