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post #12751 of 12778 Old 06-25-2015, 09:11 PM
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Question KRON-TV Channel 4.1 going bye bye

Well, it's breaking up and going completely off the air for up to 45 seconds. Freezes, multiple boxes, audio tones, no signal. Worse than KNTV ever was.

Is it my TV ?
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post #12752 of 12778 Old 06-25-2015, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Well, it's breaking up and going completely off the air for up to 45 seconds. Freezes, multiple boxes, audio tones, no signal. Worse than KNTV ever was.

Is it my TV ?
Yes it is your TV. RF 38 looks fine.

Code:
G:\HDTV>REM FullStream3.bat Working 6/23/2015
G:\HDTV>REM
G:\HDTV>REM 1) Use HDHomeRun Config (GUI) to choose the physical channel.
G:\HDTV>REM Ctrl-C to stop after 30 seconds.
G:\HDTV>REM
G:\HDTV>Date /T
Thu 06/25/2015
G:\HDTV>Time /T
10:36 PM
G:\HDTV>"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 set /
tuner0/filter "0x0000-0x1FFF"
G:\HDTV>"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 save
/tuner0 sample3.ts
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................
-- Video statistics --
825518 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport errors
, 0 sequence errors
Terminate batch job (Y/N)? n
G:\HDTV>REM
G:\HDTV>Pause
Press any key to continue . . .
SHF
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post #12753 of 12778 Old 06-26-2015, 09:43 AM
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Fischer:

Think you missed it, as it stopped spontaneously after 31 minutes. Then all was fine. It was real, and all channels are fine now.
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post #12754 of 12778 Old 06-26-2015, 10:02 AM
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Interesting. I'm usually the one who complains about 11.1 and I haven't seen any issues for quite some time. We don't watch 4.1 that much but I haven't seen any "KNTV-like" issues with it either.
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post #12755 of 12778 Old 06-26-2015, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Fischer:

Think you missed it, as it stopped spontaneously after 31 minutes. Then all was fine. It was real, and all channels are fine now.
You mentioned KNTV so I applied that test. That also had the purpose of showing a "good" channel to compare with the "bad" one KNTV. I now include the date and time and I am looking for a way to include the PSIP.

I also checked Toast0's chart for RF 38 and it is a little ragged at times.

Remember that his samples are ~ thirty (30) minutes apart.

If you hover over the data points after clicking "strength" you will see a large difference from high to low.

The Symbol Quality does not drop suggesting that no problems were occurring.

KRON is second station after KMTP that I would suspect that problems do happen.

SHF
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post #12756 of 12778 Old 06-26-2015, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Well, it's breaking up and going completely off the air for up to 45 seconds. Freezes, multiple boxes, audio tones, no signal. Worse than KNTV ever was.

Is it my TV ?
Probably not...it was completely off the air when I tuned
in at about 5am before going to work. Later that day it
was fine, so they are probably having problems, depends
on when you hit it...

--
maxreactance
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post #12757 of 12778 Old 06-26-2015, 06:59 PM
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Hi,

I got the output format of the HDHR full stream capture to include:
  • Date
  • Time
  • RF Channel
  • Streams
Followed by a series of dots to indicate no problems.

Code:
G:\HDTV>REM FullStream3.bat Working 6/26/2015
G:\HDTV>REM
G:\HDTV>REM 1) Use HDHomeRun Config (GUI) to choose the physical channel.
G:\HDTV>REM Ctrl-C to stop after 30 seconds.
G:\HDTV>REM
G:\HDTV>ECHO OFF
--------------------------
Fri 06/26/2015
06:48 PM
auto:12
3: 11.1 KNTV HD
4: 11.2 COZI
tsid=0x018D
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................................................
................................................................................
......................
-- Video statistics --
631770 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport errors
, 0 sequence errors
Terminate batch job (Y/N)? n
Press any key to continue . . .
FullStream3.bat
Code:
REM FullStream3.bat Working 6/26/2015
REM
REM 1) Use HDHomeRun Config (GUI) to choose the physical channel. 
REM Ctrl-C to stop after 30 seconds.
REM
ECHO OFF
ECHO --------------------------
Date /T
Time /T
"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 get /tuner0/channel
"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 get /tuner0/streaminfo
REM pause
"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 set /tuner0/filter "0x0000-0x1FFF" 
"C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config" 101A7308 save /tuner0 sample3.ts 
REM
Pause
SHF
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post #12758 of 12778 Old 06-27-2015, 06:51 PM
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KRON is so messed up now, cannot watch it. Boxes, beeps, no signal, etc. All other channels fine.
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post #12759 of 12778 Old 06-27-2015, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
KRON is so messed up now, cannot watch it. Boxes, beeps, no signal, etc. All other channels fine.
MyHD is fine with KRON VC 4 RF 38.

As is Fusion.

BUT, HDHR will not display any of the three streams and the full stream capture will not work.

Code:
 G:\HDTV>REM FullStream3.bat Working 6/26/2015
 G:\HDTV>REM
 G:\HDTV>REM 1) Use HDHomeRun Config (GUI) to choose the physical channel.
 G:\HDTV>REM Ctrl-C to stop after 30 seconds.
 G:\HDTV>REM
 G:\HDTV>ECHO OFF
--------------------------
Sat 06/27/2015
07:17 PM
auto:38
3: 4.2 KRON-SD
4: 4.1 KRON-HD
5: 4.3 KRONSD2
tsid=0x0179
 
-- Video statistics --
0 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport errors, 0 s
equence errors
Terminate batch job (Y/N)?
That's all that appears, none of the dots for good packets and the file remains zero bytes.

TSReader cannot see anything from the HDHR tuner.

I am stumped. Call the station for help, wait no one is there like KMTP.

EDIT: My old HDHR tuner cannot see KRON but the new one can.

TSReader output perhaps in a few minutes.


OPPS: It's my laptop software or wireless or ...
RF 38 is fine on my old HDHR on my HTPC.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 06-27-2015 at 09:51 PM.
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post #12760 of 12778 Old 06-27-2015, 07:53 PM
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[s]KRON needs new HDHR for capture / view[/s]

Hi,

I got my new HDHR to capture the full stream for KRON and TSReader was able to analyze it. It is attached.

I cannot see anything wrong but something must be as my old HDHR sees nothing. Experts of TSReader output may see the problem.

EDIT: Updated firmware and software for both old and new HDHRs. No change. Will check later.

OPPS: It's my laptop software or wireless or ...
RF 38 is fine on my old HDHR on my HTPC.
Spoiler!

SHF
Attached Files
File Type: zip KRON.zip (95.9 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; Yesterday at 12:09 PM.
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post #12761 of 12778 Old 06-27-2015, 11:26 PM
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Turned power of on all my hardwired network devices and starting with the wireless router turned power back on.

KRON and all the other stations are back. So on my part, a false report about KRON.

SHF
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post #12762 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 12:08 AM
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I wonder what's going on with KMMC channel 40. It was back on a few days ago, but now it's off again. Maybe they found that they still had interference problems.

Larry

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
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post #12763 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Turned power of on all my hardwired network devices and starting with the wireless router turned power back on.

KRON and all the other stations are back. So on my part, a false report about KRON.

SHF


15 minutes after I posted, KRON normalized. How expensive is your testing equipment.
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post #12764 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
15 minutes after I posted, KRON normalized. How expensive is your testing equipment.
Well, the need for a HTPC with Wireless (Optional) Networking being the base system strongly suggests that the desire for a HTPC is the determining cost. My 37" HDTV with a DEAD ATSC Tuner is my system monitor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-015-_-Product

You could get by for $84 + Shipping and Handling and an Ethernet cable if you have a computer. Software runs on various systems.

http://www.silicondust.com/products/...merun-connect/

SHF
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post #12765 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
15 minutes after I posted, KRON normalized. How expensive is your testing equipment.
KRON 4.1 is very crappy again now.
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post #12766 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
KRON 4.1 is very crappy again now.
I am unsure if this applies as my antenna is in a different place than yours (And sucks better with more gain).


Spoiler!
TSreader showed a larger number of errors. Perhaps another report later.

SHF
Attached Files
File Type: zip KRON_1.zip (108.0 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; 06-28-2015 at 08:42 PM.
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post #12767 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
KNTV is breaking up again tonight, every three to ten minutes. Central horizontal lines, under one second per episode. No audio disruptions . . . yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Confirmed, RF 12 has problems, worse than the last report.

SHF
I see KNTV breaking up tonight (Sunday) 6:55pm, every 4 seconds, a complete picture of boxes, then a 4 second recovery.
A slower timed breakup (On their end) The audio holds steady, the picture does not.
They have some issues.
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post #12768 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
I see KNTV breaking up tonight (Sunday) 6:55pm, every 4 seconds, a complete picture of boxes, then a 4 second recovery.
A slower timed breakup (On their end) The audio holds steady, the picture does not.
They have some issues.

Watching KNTV for the past ten minutes. No breakups yet.
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post #12769 of 12778 Old 06-28-2015, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Watching KNTV for the past ten minutes. No breakups yet.
I captured KNTV's full stream starting at 8 PM for ~ 30 minutes. Only TWO (2) errors seen.

Spoiler!


SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 06-28-2015 at 09:06 PM.
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post #12770 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Interesting. I'm usually the one who complains about 11.1 and I haven't seen any issues for quite some time. We don't watch 4.1 that much but I haven't seen any "KNTV-like" issues with it either.

Sorry if this issue has been addressed before - I could not find anything using this forum's search engine.


My problems are also with NBC bay area channels 11.1 & 11.2. For about the past 1 1/2 weeks or so I get a picture , but no sound. This has always happened once in a while, but would only last a day or two. The problem had gotten worse in the last couple of months, but has never been without sound for this long. There is no problem with my tv or converter box - every other channel comes in fine with sound.


Anyone else have this problem ? Any solutions ?
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post #12771 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barube View Post
Sorry if this issue has been addressed before - I could not find anything using this forum's search engine.

My problems are also with NBC bay area channels 11.1 & 11.2. For about the past 1 1/2 weeks or so I get a picture , but no sound. This has always happened once in a while, but would only last a day or two. The problem had gotten worse in the last couple of months, but has never been without sound for this long. There is no problem with my tv or converter box - every other channel comes in fine with sound.

Anyone else have this problem ? Any solutions ?
It's possible that KNTV's attempts to discover the problems they have had for some time that have made some changes that affect only some HDTV sets. If there have been others having this problem there would have been a loud response.

I will do a long full stream capture of KNTV from ~ 5:25 PM to ~ 6:15 PM to cover both network and local programming. Please report if you have any problems if you are able to watch during this period.

Before that, if you can, do a double scan. First disconnect the antenna and the full scan should produce no channels. Then reconnect the antenna and do a second scan which should have all channels appear.

I will do a quick scan of KNTV and go back as see if I have a TSReader output from long ago to compare with.

Looking at the KNTV TSReader report for 6/9/2015 I see two audio channels defined.

If you have selected the second audio channel which is often used for Spanish, then long periods of silence would be expected as they only try to have the Spanish audio supplied for Sports programming. Other periods sound would be missing.


SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; Yesterday at 03:48 PM.
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post #12772 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
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KNTV has problems right now big time

I just did a HDHR Full Channel Capture of KNTV and it has lots of problems.

Spoiler!


SHF
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post #12773 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
It's possible that KNTV's attempts to discover the problems they have had for some time that have made some changes that affect only some HDTV sets. If there have been others having this problem there would have been a loud response.

I will do a long full stream capture of KNTV from ~ 5:25 PM to ~ 6:15 PM to cover both network and local programming. Please report if you have any problems if you are able to watch during this period.

Before that, if you can, do a double scan. First disconnect the antenna and the full scan should produce no channels. Then reconnect the antenna and do a second scan which should have all channels appear.

I will do a quick scan of KNTV and go back as see if I have a TSReader output from long ago to compare with.

Looking at the KNTV TSReader report for 6/9/2015 I see two audio channels defined.

If you have selected the second audio channel which is often used for Spanish, then long periods of silence would be expected as they only try to have the Spanish audio supplied for Sports programming. Other periods sound would be missing.


SHF

Thanks for you help.


Guess what ? I just turned on channel 11 and suddenly there is audio for the first time in more than a week that I know of. It was not working a couple of hours ago. The last time I had sound on this channel about 10 days ago, it came back on for about 1 day and then went out again until today.


I will go ahead and perform the double scan.
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post #12774 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
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SHF,

I think the "n" are dropped ethernet packets on your local network, not KNTV.

I had hdhr picture breakups for a while, ended up changing how my hdhr tuners and host systems using the hdhrs were connected to 1 gb ether switch and routers. Copy/paste from bottom of hdhr "Network packet loss" FAQ

"You should see a series of dots. "n" indicates network packet loss. "t" indicates a reception error. "s" is informational."

hmm, forum does not let me add link, look for HDHR FAQ > HDHR DUAL then 5-6 FAQ entry
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post #12775 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rond1 View Post
SHF,

I think the "n" are dropped ethernet packets on your local network, not KNTV.

I had hdhr picture breakups for a while, ended up changing how my hdhr tuners and host systems using the hdhrs were connected to 1 gb ether switch and routers. Copy/paste from bottom of hdhr "Network packet loss" FAQ

"You should see a series of dots. "n" indicates network packet loss. "t" indicates a reception error. "s" is informational."

hmm, forum does not let me add link, look for HDHR FAQ > HDHR DUAL then 5-6 FAQ entry
I had come to that conclusion earlier in my test today. I will need to switch to capturing on my HTPC for tests(After I get it switched over to W7 HP) which is hard wired to the 1GB network. (Oh so many computers to build, four in progress now (2 W7, 2 W10) and four more that are running.) XP, W7 and W10 on my active HTPC, W7 and W10 on the standby HTPC.


Network packet loss
https://www.silicondust.com/forum/vi...hp?f=15&t=5877
Quote:
You should see a series of dots. "n" indicates network packet loss. "t" indicates a reception error. "s" is informational.
That FAQ was not linked in the "Capture Full Stream one.

Still, I only started looking at KNTV AFTER problems were reported by others. I did see / hear myself the breakups on the Canadian Grand Prix.

Today it is relative clean for the ~ 45 minute test. Earlier today it was very dirty.

-----------------------------------------------------

I watched the tail end of the 5 PM KNTV news, NBC Nightly News with Brian (Opps some stranger is in the chair) and the start of the KNTV news at 6 PM.

I saw no breaks.

On the subject of audio missing, KNTV SAP had NO audio during the entire period. I checked Cozi and it's SAP audio was silent also.


EDIT: ~ 9 PM KNTV SAP audio is there (In English), Cozi SAP audio is not. KTVU and KGO SAP audio are present. (Note, SAP is an old analog term but the Networks keep using it.)

I checked KTVU and it's SAP had audio as well as KICU SAP which was equal in level compared with the main audio channel.

-----------------------------------------------------

I think that perhaps I am chasing ghosts with the KNTV and KRON problems now.

Weather and bad antenna installations may well be the cause. So I am shutting down responding to these reports.

SHF
Attached Files
File Type: zip 6_29_2015_6_PM.zip (69.5 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; Yesterday at 09:03 PM.
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post #12776 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barube View Post
Thanks for you help.


Guess what ? I just turned on channel 11 and suddenly there is audio for the first time in more than a week that I know of. It was not working a couple of hours ago. The last time I had sound on this channel about 10 days ago, it came back on for about 1 day and then went out again until today.


I will go ahead and perform the double scan.
KNTV is having some type of issue, because their
program guide intermittently blinks on and off. Hasn't
affected my reception of audio/video at this time, but
the last time this happened, they friggin' crashed my
living-room flatscreen, wound up with all audio coming
out the TV speakers at full blast, no video to speak of,
and no way to control my TV at all until I did a full
reset of the thing and got it the hell away from that
channel.

I'm hoping this won't be a repeat of that, but the blinking
program guide was one of the symptoms that led up to
the disaster...(my other TVs just couldn't pick it up,
only the Sony-full-of-baloney actually crashed like a
Microsoft product)...

--
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post #12777 of 12778 Old Yesterday, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
KNTV is having some type of issue, because their
program guide intermittently blinks on and off. Hasn't
affected my reception of audio/video at this time, but
the last time this happened, they friggin' crashed my
living-room flatscreen, wound up with all audio coming
out the TV speakers at full blast, no video to speak of,
and no way to control my TV at all until I did a full
reset of the thing and got it the hell away from that
channel.

I'm hoping this won't be a repeat of that, but the blinking
program guide was one of the symptoms that led up to
the disaster...(my other TVs just couldn't pick it up,
only the Sony-full-of-baloney actually crashed like a
Microsoft product)...

--
maxreactance

Thanks for the heads up.


The audio is still working for me at the moment.
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I checked KNTV yesterday just after SFischer1 reported a problem and I saw a couple of video breakups.

KRON doesn't come in very often but it is right now and I saw no issues during the brief time I watched it.

Chuck
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