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post #13861 of 14304 Old 06-21-2016, 08:58 PM
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I have found many reports of "LG" problems. I do not know if any relate to what is wrong in the KOFY stream.

I will tell them about those reports but the main point is to clean up the missed packets / sequence errors / continuity errors that Toast0's charts do not show in any other RF stream.

After that is done then if any problems remain they should be taken to a "LG" thread in the proper AVS place.

Lets not clutter this thread up more until KOFY's engineers get back to me or are assumed to be ignoring me.

SHF
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post #13862 of 14304 Old 06-21-2016, 09:59 PM
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I agree. Thanks for pursuing this with KOFY. Let us know if, and when, you hear back. Post here or in HDTV-in-SFbay.
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post #13863 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I think KNTV got the best deal of the three. They didn't have to get a license for another station or build a station and they got on a full power UHF station with much wider coverage. KNTV 11.3 is a good deal for me since KSTS is as reliable as the average Walnut Grove station.

Chuck
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I agree great deal, I remember that both the stations are owned by NBC's parent.

The only puzzlement is that it took so long.

But then we have no idea how long it will last.
SHF
This is not really new ..... KNTV did this before they moved from Loma Prieta to San Bruno Mt.
Apparently complaints came from San Francisco viewers about no OTA NBC station for Olympic Coverage.
And then came NBC on 48-2, ... just like that.
BUT you were still screwed in San Francisco, if you didn't upgrade to digital, and were still watching the "duel service" old analog stations.
After Mt. San Bruno was built, 48-2 NBC was then gone.
This was around the same time they re-named their local newscast "NBC-3" And confused viewers were trying to scan-in "3" on their OTA tv sets.

Looks like they simply re-tooled it to just display 11-3 now.
That does have some key advantages to some areas. LOS service to the city of Tracy (Sacramento market)
Weak but serviceable signal from Gilroy down to Salinas.
Smart move if its a full power station. Low power stations have limited use.
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post #13864 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 11:59 AM
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Yes we have no missed packets, KOFY.

Try KOFY again, the missed packets dropped to zero between 10:30 PM and 11 PM.

SHF
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post #13865 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Try KOFY again, the missed packets dropped to zero between 10:30 PM and 11 PM.

SHF
I just tried it and it seems to be working fine now. Did you contact them or did they fix it on their own?
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post #13866 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdoor View Post
I just tried it and it seems to be working fine now. Did you contact them or did they fix it on their own?
e-mail sent:

Tuesday, June 21, 2016 5:08 PM

NO reply but I saw on Toast0's chart that the missed packets dropped.

SHF
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post #13867 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Try KOFY again, the missed packets dropped to zero between 10:30 PM and 11 PM.

SHF
I'll take a look tonight when I get home.
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post #13868 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
e-mail sent:

Tuesday, June 21, 2016 5:08 PM

NO reply but I saw on Toast0's chart that the missed packets dropped.

SHF
Well, I've been watching it now for about 20 minutes with no problems. Before, the channel would totally lock up after 30 seconds every single time.

Let us rejoice.
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post #13869 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Try KOFY again, the missed packets dropped to zero between 10:30 PM and 11 PM.

SHF
Not working here. 20-1, even though it initially scanned in automatically, is gone. If I manually type in 20-1, no signal. The odd thing is that I went back to my channel list and now 20 is gone altogether, as if it was never detected and saved. If KOFY stays stable for those who have LG tv's, maybe I'll try the re-scan again with and without the antenna connected.
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post #13870 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Not working here. 20-1, even though it initially scanned in automatically, is gone. If I manually type in 20-1, no signal. The odd thing is that I went back to my channel list and now 20 is gone altogether, as if it was never detected and saved. If KOFY stays stable for those who have LG tv's, maybe I'll try the re-scan again with and without the antenna connected.
20-1 ~ 20-4 has been rock solid for me all day. I'm in Sunnyvale. I never had to do a scan at all.
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post #13871 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdoor View Post
20-1 ~ 20-4 has been rock solid for me all day. I'm in Sunnyvale. I never had to do a scan at all.
Guess I'll give it a couple of more days and then check again. Sure hope it's not my tuner
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post #13872 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Guess I'll give it a couple of more days and then check again. Sure hope it's not my tuner
Did you try adding it manually? My LG tv requires the RF channel. For channel 20 that would be 19.
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post #13873 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 08:18 PM
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No I did not. I'll have to see where that is on my LG (LD520 b.t.w.). All the other stations are VC's but maybe KOFY requires the RF now.
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post #13874 of 14304 Old 06-22-2016, 08:38 PM
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Update: I went to Manual Tuning and "scrolled" to 19. There was no Add option available but 20-1 appeared. I left it alone and went back to 7-1. Manually put in 20 and the tv immediately went to 20-1. I then went to my saved and 20-1/20-2 was there and I can now channel up or down and 20-1 is there. Not sure what the deal is but we'll see what happens after I power off the tv and then back on again. An interesting problem for sure. Thanks for the tip that I had forgot all about. I've never had to use the RF before to find and lock onto a station.
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post #13875 of 14304 Old 06-28-2016, 10:00 PM
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Is there anyone out there looking for a good UHF antenna? A friend of mine has a slightly used Antennas Direct 91XG for sale. You have to be willing to pick it up at his home on the border of Pleasant Hill and Concord. He said he accepts PayPal. If interested PM me and I'll give you the details.

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post #13876 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 11:27 AM
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For those who are following the on-going auction, here is the latest update from "TVTechnology":
126 MHz cleared at $86 Billion
http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...billion/278926

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post #13877 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
For those who are following the on-going auction, here is the latest update from "TVTechnology":
126 MHz cleared at $86 Billion
http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/000...billion/278926

I guess it'll be after the entire process is complete before we know which stations are selling/moving/sharing.

Chuck
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post #13878 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 03:51 PM
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Hi,

I made some comments about the repack details which are not completely in what Larry posted.

AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum

Here is a link not in the document that suggested a Google search for "Federal Communications Commission’s Incentive Auction Dashboard".

https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-in...ion-transition

SHF
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post #13879 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I guess it'll be after the entire process is complete before we know which stations are selling/moving/sharing.
Correct. The process is confidential until it's over.

- Trip

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post #13880 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 06:48 PM
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Trip,

I was reading over SFicher1's link above and saw this:

prioritizing assignments to channel 5 in the Low-VHF band and off of channel 14 in the UHF band.

I assume channel 5 is the best of the worst low VHF channels but what's the rationale for avoiding channel 14? I would have thought that channel 14 would be prime real estate in the repack environment.

Chuck
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post #13881 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Trip,

I was reading over SFicher1's link above and saw this:

prioritizing assignments to channel 5 in the Low-VHF band and off of channel 14 in the UHF band.

I assume channel 5 is the best of the worst low VHF channels but what's the rationale for avoiding channel 14? I would have thought that channel 14 would be prime real estate in the repack environment.

Chuck
RF 14 was found to be a disaster on The Devil Mountain as KTNC found out. If it was bad there then other places it will be bad also for the Police, Fire ... services anywhere in the USA.

There has been a lot of study done to find out how to do the repack so that interference does not happen or be caused.

SHF
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post #13882 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
RF 14 was found to be a disaster on The Devil Mountain as KTNC found out. If it was bad there then other places it will be bad also for the Police, Fire ... services anywhere in the USA.

There has been a lot of study done to find out how to do the repack so that interference does not happen or be caused.

SHF

KTNC is on an old tower with many electrically poor connections and that's what the problems is. The tower needs to be replaced. KTNC was slated to go up on Sutro Tower with a MW. They wouldn't have okayed that if they thought it was going to be a problem. Channel 14 simply needs to be in a location not shared by services just below 470MHz. I don't think we can afford to give away channel 14 in the new era of limited UHF channels.

I'm really curious who if anyone is going to end up on low VHF. I think channel 11 is the only open high VHF channel around here.

Looks like it could very well be 2017 before the dust settles.

Chuck
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post #13883 of 14304 Old 06-29-2016, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KTNC is on an old tower with many electrically poor connections and that's what the problems is. The tower needs to be replaced. KTNC was slated to go up on Sutro Tower with a MW. They wouldn't have okayed that if they thought it was going to be a problem. Channel 14 simply needs to be in a location not shared by services just below 470MHz. I don't think we can afford to give away channel 14 in the new era of limited UHF channels.

I'm really curious who if anyone is going to end up on low VHF. I think channel 11 is the only open high VHF channel around here.

Looks like it could very well be 2017 before the dust settles.

Chuck
Well, we have someone who might have a better understanding why RF 14 is being dropped. I have read words that some RF frequencies must be vacant to protect other frequencies.

KTNC is already on Sutro, VC 38.3 RF 39.3.

Dust settling? It might be only Months (Days) when ATSC 3.0 is allowed and those who want to purchase a new HDTV can (MUST!). I assume that you are following my posts on "AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum".

It will be an exciting period standing on the sidelines watching in horror while what was started ~ 1943 changes. The money has been collected (From "K" Street) to pass the law that the repack will occur, it is about to be spent by congress to get reelected.

Now the "Smart Phone" people need to declare their millions in the next auction, or it starts over again with a different set of stations going off the air, finding new partners and so on.

2017, that's way too soon IMHO.

SHF
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post #13884 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I'm really curious who if anyone is going to end up on low VHF. I think channel 11 is the only open high VHF channel around here.
Some of the LPTV stations currently on low VHF will get booted off the air.

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post #13885 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 02:04 AM
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Some of the LPTV stations currently on low VHF will get booted off the air.

Ron
Or join another station with H.265 streams, I have seen no numbers but it may be up to three dozen (36) or more.

Remember, ATSC DTV started with MPEG2 when MPEG4 had already been invented. Now we know what it can do and why the repack is possible.

SHF
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post #13886 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 04:39 AM
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I'm the one who pushed for those things. For reasoning on channel 14, see KTNC, who can't seem to resolve their land mobile interference issues. Any station on channel 14 has to include expensive additional filtering to protect land mobile below 470 MHz. (KERA in Dallas, for example, has spent multiple millions of dollars on it.) If channel 14 can be avoided, then less money has to be spent on repacking that station.

In most the populated parts of the country it won't make a difference, but what the algorithm was doing when I first saw it was that it was taking any station above the clearing target in, say, Montana, and dropping it on channel 14. Why would you do that and thus spend piles and piles of repacking money on high-dollar filtering when the whole rest of the band is wide open and doesn't require said filtering? It would be a waste of money and an extra burden on stations that otherwise wouldn't need to be there. Many of those stations would probably file to change channel post-auction anyway, like so many stations did during the DTV transition (see KRCR or KGPE, both of which were assigned channel 14 during the transition but relocated to 34 before actually going on the air) so the idea is to save on paperwork to do that, too.

As for channel 5, the issue there is that the general consensus seems to be that channels 5 and 6 are superior to channels 2-4, but channel 6 could have interference issues with FM and so trying to limit the interaction between the two seems like a reasonable step. Thus, channel 5 is preferred over the other low-VHF channels.

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post #13887 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Well, we have someone who might have a better understanding why RF 14 is being dropped. I have read words that some RF frequencies must be vacant to protect other frequencies.

KTNC is already on Sutro, VC 38.3 RF 39.3.

Dust settling? It might be only Months (Days) when ATSC 3.0 is allowed and those who want to purchase a new HDTV can (MUST!). I assume that you are following my posts on "AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum".

It will be an exciting period standing on the sidelines watching in horror while what was started ~ 1943 changes. The money has been collected (From "K" Street) to pass the law that the repack will occur, it is about to be spent by congress to get reelected.

Now the "Smart Phone" people need to declare their millions in the next auction, or it starts over again with a different set of stations going off the air, finding new partners and so on.

2017, that's way too soon IMHO.

SHF

KTNC may be on the KCNS transmitter but they were supposed to move to Sutro on channel 14. The antenna is included in the building permit for antenna expansion on the Sutro Tower. See Item #50 here:

http://sutrotower.com/wp-content/upl...2013-03-26.pdf

But now that's not going to happen.

I was following all the filings KTNC made to try to resolve the interference problem on Mt. Diablo. A lot of money was spent trying to find all the bad connections on the tower that were acting like diodes and generating intermod products. I think they ended up with 12KW because that was below the threshold where the intermods went crazy. I think all that proved was that they needed a brand new tower. Those sorts of bad connections are hard to track down.

I am following "The FCC and Broadcast Spectrum" thread. It's been quiet for a long time but I expect that'll change at the end of the auction.

Chuck
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post #13888 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
As for channel 5, the issue there is that the general consensus seems to be that channels 5 and 6 are superior to channels 2-4, but channel 6 could have interference issues with FM and so trying to limit the interaction between the two seems like a reasonable step. Thus, channel 5 is preferred over the other low-VHF channels.

That was my thinking. Channel 5/6 have somewhat less noise than 2-4 but they're still not wonderful. I suspect no broadcasters are going to willingly go to channel 5 unless they have no choice.

Ron - The era of LPTV may largely be over. They'll boot the remaining UHF LPTV stations off the air before they go to low VHF.

We have a few LPTV UHF stations on the air over here below channel 30. KBTV on 27, KEZT on 23 and KMMW on 28 come to mind. Those will be prime relocation channels.

Maybe KUVS in Angels Camp will share with KTFK on 26. They're sort of doing that now anyways by showing each other's main channel. It's redundant to have KUVS on the air when you have KTFK in Walnut Grove. Both are in the same market. I'd love to see KUVS go off the air or share the KTFK transmitter. KUVS is just an interference generator. :-)

Chuck

Last edited by Calaveras; 06-30-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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post #13889 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 05:29 PM
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ATSC 3.0 4K is on the air! WRAL, Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, has launched the first live ATSC 3.0 simulcast of a commercially licensed television station.

See the details in this TV Technology article:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/00...-signal/278927

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post #13890 of 14304 Old 06-30-2016, 07:51 PM
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I just added a new sub-channel to my stations lists:

KEMO 50-4 Evine

Larry

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