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post #13921 of 13941 Old 07-11-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
I'm mostly inclined to think that the person you are assisting is pressing, by mistake, that same aspect button you are pressing. I assist an older woman with her computer issues, and she has many. One of them is that she can't figure out why her computer keeps making upper case letters small and lower case big. What is going on here is that she often presses 'caps lock' when she is attempting to press 'a.' This is a consistent issue and it isn't going to change because she thinks that she is a great typist, once taught typing as a teacher. Unfortunately those days were many, many years ago..... Just a thought!
I see the same issue with my 90 year old mother. I'm always resetting one thing or another. The solution may be to get a learning remote with few buttons and limited capabilities, so wrong buttons cannot be pressed.

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post #13922 of 13941 Old 07-11-2016, 04:49 PM
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Just before the analog shutdown KQED tried switching between SD and HD to match the format of the program.

IT WAS A ROYAL DISASTER! Never to be tried again.

So switching the mode to match the program is just not done.

The KTVU Movies! issue is that they do have something wrong, sending a 4:3 aspect ratio when 16:9 is needed.

Other streams on other stations use Resolution 720 x 480i for a 4:3 picture and others use Resolution 720 x 480i for a 16:9 picture. This is a description of the stream not an individual program. The stations still do not get it right all the time but they are getting better.

Many streams that I watch are sent as SD. Sometimes the picture is a true 4:3 SD program and it fills the screen from top to bottom. Other times it is a 16:9 picture letterboxed and pillared. I use a setting buried three levels deep in VLC Media Player to crop the picture to 16:9 so my 16:9 screen is full.

The intermingling of true 4:3 programs and letterboxed and pillared 16:9 programs is one reason the stations cannot tell the set how to display an individual program correctly, some people can crop the picture to fill their screen while others do not have that option.

Again, the 4:3 or 16:9 aspect is for a stream, not an individual program.

SHF
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post #13923 of 13941 Old 07-11-2016, 06:27 PM
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I've given up on the stations sending out the correct aspect ratio. As Stephen said, they are getting better, but there are still pictures being transmitted that aren't right. I just use my "Wide" or "Size" button to make the picture the right size.

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post #13924 of 13941 Old 07-11-2016, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
I've given up on the stations sending out the correct aspect ratio. As Stephen said, they are getting better, but there are still pictures being transmitted that aren't right. I just use my "Wide" or "Size" button to make the picture the right size.

Larry
My new Sony also has a "Wide" button and it was made just a few months ago.

The only thing that I must do really special processing with VideoReDo ($$) is when a 16:9 picture is letterboxed and pillared and sent as HD. I have not caught that error lately but it is the hardest to correct.

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post #13925 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 08:52 AM
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Looking At The Future -- Here's an article from TV Technology that I found very interesting, a proposal for implementation of ATSC 3.0:
"A Channel Sharing Proposal for ATSC 3.0" -
http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/00...atsc-30/278960

Larry

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post #13926 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Just before the analog shutdown KQED tried switching between SD and HD to match the format of the program.

IT WAS A ROYAL DISASTER! Never to be tried again.

So switching the mode to match the program is just not done.

The KTVU Movies! issue is that they do have something wrong, sending a 4:3 aspect ratio when 16:9 is needed.

Other streams on other stations use Resolution 720 x 480i for a 4:3 picture and others use Resolution 720 x 480i for a 16:9 picture. This is a description of the stream not an individual program. The stations still do not get it right all the time but they are getting better.

Many streams that I watch are sent as SD. Sometimes the picture is a true 4:3 SD program and it fills the screen from top to bottom. Other times it is a 16:9 picture letterboxed and pillared. I use a setting buried three levels deep in VLC Media Player to crop the picture to 16:9 so my 16:9 screen is full.

The intermingling of true 4:3 programs and letterboxed and pillared 16:9 programs is one reason the stations cannot tell the set how to display an individual program correctly, some people can crop the picture to fill their screen while others do not have that option.

Again, the 4:3 or 16:9 aspect is for a stream, not an individual program.

SHF
Yes, exactly! Not that KTVU is trying to do what KQED did, they are just sending the incorrect tag on the stream. If they would just send a 16:9 tag, the picture would be fine! They already add the side bars for actual 4:3 content.

It's like beating your head against a wall ... and I so understand the folks who have just given up on trying to get the stations to give a crap about the quality of their signal.

If anyone else would like to add their voice to the choir, and explain it to them in simple English, it would be greatly appreciated. The addy is: Don.Thompson@FOXTV.COM.

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post #13927 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
I'm mostly inclined to think that the person you are assisting is pressing, by mistake, that same aspect button you are pressing. I assist an older woman with her computer issues, and she has many. One of them is that she can't figure out why her computer keeps making upper case letters small and lower case big. What is going on here is that she often presses 'caps lock' when she is attempting to press 'a.' This is a consistent issue and it isn't going to change because she thinks that she is a great typist, once taught typing as a teacher. Unfortunately those days were many, many years ago..... Just a thought!
Bobby, thanks for the response and thoughts. I've thought of that issue. If it was inadvertent button presses, I would expect that sometimes over a period of days that it would be pressed more than once, but that has never happened.
I'll be there pet-sitting for a few days without the usual watcher and will check to see if it occurs "on its own" as am suspecting. But if anyone else has heard of aspect issues, particularly KTVU, please enlighten me or at least do some rumor mongering. Thanks for Don's comments - maybe I can learn whether it's simply switching to some other KTVU stream that reset things?? Doesn't seem that way, as I have surfed the whole of 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 32, 44, 60, 65, 66 (that's most of it with almost all foreign language, religious, and shopping disabled) and back, and not had it go to incorrect aspect. It just /is/ that way a few days later when I return.

Last edited by pault1; 07-12-2016 at 01:08 PM.
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post #13928 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 02:38 PM
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Sutro Tower Aux Antenna notice

Good morning. You have requested to hear from us when we have a need to switch to our Auxiliary antennas. We will be inspecting all of the structure and antennas on top of the tower this afternoon, tomorrow, and as a contingency, Thursday and Friday if we find any issues that need repair.

Our field surveys have shown that there is very little difference RF emission between the main and the auxiliary antennas around the neighborhood except for the area right below the tower on the track around Summit Reservoir. This area has higher measured levels of RF energy, a maximum of 34% of the public standard at one location next to the Sutro Tower property.

You can see all of our reports on our web site at: http://sutrotower.com/for-our-neighbors/

Eric Dausman
Vice President & COO
Sutro Tower, Inc.
1 La Avanzada Street
San Francisco, CA 94131
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post #13929 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 05:02 PM
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KCSM AUX Antenna Blues

KCSM had a bad time using the AUX antennas today.

Did anyone have problems receiving KCSM today?

SHF

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post #13930 of 13941 Old 07-12-2016, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Looking At The Future -- Here's an article from TV Technology that I found very interesting, a proposal for implementation of ATSC 3.0:
"A Channel Sharing Proposal for ATSC 3.0" -
http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/00...atsc-30/278960

Larry

The comments in the discussion following the article is more interesting than the article itself.

Chuck
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post #13931 of 13941 Old 07-13-2016, 12:08 AM
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During the time that the Sutro Tower stations were operating on the auxiliary antennas today I noticed an interesting situation. Many of the more distant stations that I normally receive, such as 22 from Sonoma Mountain, 48 from the South Bay, 52 from Mt. Diablo and 31 and 58 from Walnut Grove were missing. Apparently the lower, closer antennas provide more power locally and it desensed my receivers to the point that the weaker signals couldn't make it through. Once Sutro went back to their regular antennas, the weaker signals returned.

Considering that there was more RF here, I was surprised to see the signal levels coming from the stations up there. Two were what I expected, up in the 30 dB SNR range - both 20 and 44 were hot, but the rest were all 25 dB or lower. 60 was down to 21 dB... not very good for being 3/4 mile away. Looks like their coverage from the Aux antenna is bad down in Silicon Valley, too, as reported above.

Larry

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post #13932 of 13941 Old 07-19-2016, 07:41 AM
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Larry,

Here's an update for your channel list. KAHC-LD is on the air. Here's their channel line-up:

45.1001 - Laff TV
45.1002 - Test Pattern
45.1003 - Cozi TV
45.1004 - LCHD
45.1005 - QVC
45.1006 - QVC Plus

I wonder if they're using the high VC numbers to avoid a conflict with KFTY?

They're transmitting from a 350' tower on N. Market Blvd in Sacramento. The signal is so strong here even at 60 miles that I can no longer receive KBCW.

Chuck
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post #13933 of 13941 Old 07-19-2016, 11:34 PM
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Larry,

Here's an update for your channel list. KAHC-LD is on the air.

I wonder if they're using the high VC numbers to avoid a conflict with KFTY?

They're transmitting from a 350' tower on N. Market Blvd in Sacramento. The signal is so strong here even at 60 miles that I can no longer receive KBCW.

Chuck
Thanks for the info. I checked the FCC list and it shows a transmitter channel of 34. Is that what you found?

At first I didn't know what you meant about using the high VC numbers to avoid a conflict with KFTY. Then it donned on me that you must be talking about the possibility where someone could receive both stations so they're using those weird sub-channel numbers to avoid 45-1 - 10 from KFTY. Those are weird sub-channel numbers. I've never seen anything like that before!

The call looks familiar, but I can't seem to find it in my CP station list. Must have missed that on. It'll now go into the main lists.

Larry

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Last edited by Larry Kenney; 07-19-2016 at 11:43 PM.
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post #13934 of 13941 Old 07-20-2016, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks for the info. I checked the FCC list and it shows a transmitter channel of 34. Is that what you found?

At first I didn't know what you meant about using the high VC numbers to avoid a conflict with KFTY. Then it donned on me that you must be talking about the possibility where someone could receive both stations so they're using those weird sub-channel numbers to avoid 45-1 - 10 from KFTY. Those are weird sub-channel numbers. I've never seen anything like that before!

The call looks familiar, but I can't seem to find it in my CP station list. Must have missed that on. It'll now go into the main lists.

Larry

This station used to be K45HC, an analog station on channel 45 on one of the Walnut Grove towers. They recently became KAHC and after several construction permits ended up in Sacramento. I see that one of the construction permits was for RF 34 but that's not the one they built. They are on RF 45. I'm one of those people who can receive both and I'm sure there are plenty of people in Sacramento who could receive both.

With the repack just around the corner I'm surprised they built this station since I doubt they're going to be staying there for long.

After the morning inversions dissipated the signal settled down and was a very stable SNR 25-26 dB all day. This morning it's back up to 28-29 dB. Looks like it's more stable than the Walnut Grove stations.

Chuck
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post #13935 of 13941 Old 07-22-2016, 12:58 AM
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It's been noted on another site that some TV receivers don't recognize those four digit sub-channel numbers, such as the 45-1001 mentioned above, so the channel goes undetected. I wonder if they know that.

Larry
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post #13936 of 13941 Old 07-22-2016, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
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It's been noted on another site that some TV receivers don't recognize those four digit sub-channel numbers, such as the 45-1001 mentioned above, so the channel goes undetected. I wonder if they know that.

Larry

My 7" portable will not accept anything above 99. The TiVo won't accept anything above 999. The guide in my new Sony shows KAHC as 45.1 and when I select that the TV tunes to KAHC. But if I manually enter 45.1 the TV tunes to KFTY. Only entering 45.1001 tunes to KAHC. I don't know why they selected VC 45. For all intents and purposes this is a brand new station. No one is going to remember K45HC, or know that they are related, or care, except a select few of us. There are plenty of unused VCs they could have selected.

DTV America owns KAHC and they've been playing the LPTV paperwork games with stations around here some time but this is the first time they've actually put one on the air in this area. With the repack in the not so distant future I have to wonder what their long term plan is?

Maybe I'll e-mail them.

Chuck
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post #13937 of 13941 Old 07-22-2016, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
DTV America owns KAHC and they've been playing the LPTV paperwork games with stations around here some time but this is the first time they've actually put one on the air in this area. With the repack in the not so distant future I have to wonder what their long term plan is?

Maybe I'll e-mail them.
It would be quite interesting if they respond with anything informative.

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post #13938 of 13941 Old 07-22-2016, 12:21 PM
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The ATSC standard says that video channels should always have minor channel numbers 1-99, then datacasting channels on 100 and above. So no surprise that some receivers don't receive stations with minor channel numbers above 99.

- Trip
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post #13939 of 13941 Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
The comments in the discussion following the article is more interesting than the article itself.

Chuck
Today I started wondering if any stream is being broadcast in MP4 any where in the USA which KQED INC. tested on KQEH a few months ago?

And if the installed ATSC tuner base is MP4 ready as MP4 was added years ago to the ATSC Spec?

If MP4 could be used after the repack we could have many more streams and make it easier to transition to ATSC 3.0.

SHF
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post #13940 of 13941 Old Today, 02:47 AM
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I'm not aware of it anywhere in the US, but I do know it's being done in Mexico.

- Trip

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post #13941 of 13941 Old Today, 10:20 AM
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Here's an article from TV Technology about the new ATSC 3.0 station that's now on the air in North Carolina.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/00...casting/279098

Larry

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