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post #14011 of 14025 Old Today, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Must be a severe multipath issue when you're pointed at SF. You should be able to receive KSTS and the other full power stations up there on a paperclip. You can see the transmitters.

So the Weak Signal History shows KNTV 11.1 as a weak signal at some point?

Chuck


Hi Chuck. Thanks for the question.

No, I cannot see the transmitters from here. Ch. 11.1 still sucks this morning.

Will change to Ch. 2.1 or 5.1 until the engineers fix KNTV. KNTV is the only station that has given problems.

Below are screen shots re: signal strength of 11.1 and the separate screen of a weak signal log. Have no idea what this Samsung means as "weak".
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post #14012 of 14025 Old Today, 08:27 AM
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BTW, I've not been watching the Olympics and had not rec'd recent AVS Forum notices from this thread. Also, SWMBO has been watching them on 11.1 without complaints so I was blissfully unaware of any issues. I just checked my recordings and TSReader found 299 continuity errors in my Men's Gold Medal Basketball file and 433 in the Closing Ceremony file. I normally see fewer than 10 CE in hours-long recordings on RF 12, which is one of my strongest signals.

I asked SWMBO if she'd noticed any problems and it turned out that she had, but thought they were minor. I guess we HDTV enthusiasts are a demanding lot.
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post #14013 of 14025 Old Today, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Hi Chuck. Thanks for the question.

No, I cannot see the transmitters from here. Ch. 11.1 still sucks this morning.

Will change to Ch. 2.1 or 5.1 until the engineers fix KNTV. KNTV is the only station that has given problems.

Below are screen shots re: signal strength of 11.1 and the separate screen of a weak signal log. Have no idea what this Samsung means as "weak".

KNTV has been coming in this morning. I checked it a bit after 7 am and there were no problems. I just checked it again before 10:30 am and still no problems. The signal was very good with an SNR of 27 dB.

If you're having problems this morning then it must be just you.

I'm beginning to think that KNTV is having a problem AND you're having a problem too. Both problems look the same on your TV. That's the only thing that would explain all the reports.

So you're blocked by a hill to Fremont and your antenna is pointed to SF. Could you post your TV Fool so we could see what it says?

Chuck
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post #14014 of 14025 Old Today, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KNTV has been coming in this morning. I checked it a bit after 7 am and there were no problems. I just checked it again before 10:30 am and still no problems. The signal was very good with an SNR of 27 dB.

If you're having problems this morning then it must be just you.

I'm beginning to think that KNTV is having a problem AND you're having a problem too. Both problems look the same on your TV. That's the only thing that would explain all the reports.

So you're blocked by a hill to Fremont and your antenna is pointed to SF. Could you post your TV Fool so we could see what it says?

Chuck


Thanks, Chuck. Not sure what you mean by "Both problems look the same on your TV.". These issues are identical to the last time KNTV did have a big problem, and the breakups disappeared when KNTV finally corrected the problem(s).

Don't think any hill is blocking Fremont access, but the antenna rotor motor is broken, so the antenna is fixed toward S.F.

Wow! Never tried TV Fool before, or don't remember. Please tell us what this graphic means. Don't see 11.3 listed... did I miss it?
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post #14015 of 14025 Old Today, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Thanks, Chuck. Not sure what you mean by "Both problems look the same on your TV.". These issues are identical to the last time KNTV did have a big problem, and the breakups disappeared when KNTV finally corrected the problem(s).

Don't think any hill is blocking Fremont access, but the antenna rotor motor is broken, so the antenna is fixed toward S.F.

Wow! Never tried TV Fool before, or don't remember. Please tell us what this graphic means. Don't see 11.3 listed... did I miss it?

KNTV having a problem and you having a problem would both result in similar looking dropouts. You wouldn't be able to tell which one was which.

I checked KNTV a little after 7 am and there was no problem. I also had it on for an hour late this morning. No problems.

Sounds to me that there are two problems; the one everyone sees and then the one only you see. I have no idea what that could be. Maybe your TV listing KNTV in the Weak Signal History is a clue. With a +61 dB Noise Margin there is no way that should ever show up as weak. Even if atmospherics affected the signal it is impossible to drop out a +61 dB NM signal. You must have some connection problem.

TV Fool does not show sub channels. It only shows the the real and virtual channel numbers. See my article in the link below my signature for a detailed explanation of TV Noise Margin.

Another broken antenna rotor..... This is why I only recommend the Ham rotors.

If you point just about any antenna to Fremont you should receive all the stations.

Do you know for sure that you're watching KGO on RF 7 and not RF 35? Your signal page should say Physical Channel 7.

BTW, do I remember that you've had this problem in the past where it was unclear that everyone was seeing what you saw?

Chuck
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post #14016 of 14025 Old Today, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KNTV having a problem and you having a problem would both result in similar looking dropouts. You wouldn't be able to tell which one was which.

I checked KNTV a little after 7 am and there was no problem. I also had it on for an hour late this morning. No problems.

Sounds to me that there are two problems; the one everyone sees and then the one only you see. I have no idea what that could be. Maybe your TV listing KNTV in the Weak Signal History is a clue. With a +61 dB Noise Margin there is no way that should ever show up as weak. Even if atmospherics affected the signal it is impossible to drop out a +61 dB NM signal. You must have some connection problem.

TV Fool does not show sub channels. It only shows the the real and virtual channel numbers. See my article in the link below my signature for a detailed explanation of TV Noise Margin.

Another broken antenna rotor..... This is why I only recommend the Ham rotors.

If you point just about any antenna to Fremont you should receive all the stations.

Do you know for sure that you're watching KGO on RF 7 and not RF 35? Your signal page should say Physical Channel 7.

BTW, do I remember that you've had this problem in the past where it was unclear that everyone was seeing what you saw?

Chuck

1. The rotor is 35 years old. Forgive the failure.
2. DTV Air 7-1 is detected as Physical 7, mod 8VSB, SNR 33, Lock. No listing of 7-1 in Weak History.
3. Maybe something was unclear to some, but the issues described were experienced by others and explainable. The only unique issue I had was a bad balon/transformer on the antenna and that was fixed about 1.5 years ago.
4. Have no idea why 11-1 is in the WEAK history. Would have to ask Samsung.
5. 11-1 has improved today, with glitches occurring in groups and it's okay for an hour or two. So you could have easily had a good experience today.
6. An antenna pointed to Fremont will receive ALL the channels? Really? Even the ones derived from the antenna now pointing to S.F. ?

Thanks again for your interest and help.
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post #14017 of 14025 Old Today, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
1. The rotor is 35 years old. Forgive the failure.
2. DTV Air 7-1 is detected as Physical 7, mod 8VSB, SNR 33, Lock. No listing of 7-1 in Weak History.
3. Maybe something was unclear to some, but the issues described were experienced by others and explainable. The only unique issue I had was a bad balon/transformer on the antenna and that was fixed about 1.5 years ago.
4. Have no idea why 11-1 is in the WEAK history. Would have to ask Samsung.
5. 11-1 has improved today, with glitches occurring in groups and it's okay for an hour or two. So you could have easily had a good experience today.
6. An antenna pointed to Fremont will receive ALL the channels? Really? Even the ones derived from the antenna now pointing to S.F. ?

Thanks again for your interest and help.

An antenna pointed to Fremont will not receive all the channels, just all the Fremont channels. A separate small UHF antenna with an A/B switch would do it or replace your old rotor. You might be a good candidate for a DB8e antenna where you can point the two halves in different directions. Your stations are all strong and LOS which is what that antenna is really meant for. You would need a separate VHF antenna pointed to SF. I don't remember what your current setup is. Also you might be able to just combine a separate UHF antenna with your main antenna without messing up its reception.

I got the impression from all the posts that you were having trouble at times that others were not. Larry in particular was indicating much less of an issue than you were. I did not sit down and watch KNTV for hours. I just left it on and peeked at it intermittently. I checked it again early this afternoon and it was still fine. It's possible I could have missed it.

In the current situation if there's only the occasional glitch it's probably not going to get fixed. You'll have to put up with it. If that bothers you too much then the answer is to get 11.3.

Chuck
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post #14018 of 14025 Old Today, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
An antenna pointed to Fremont will not receive all the channels, just all the Fremont channels. A separate small UHF antenna with an A/B switch would do it or replace your old rotor. You might be a good candidate for a DB8e antenna where you can point the two halves in different directions. Your stations are all strong and LOS which is what that antenna is really meant for. You would need a separate VHF antenna pointed to SF. I don't remember what your current setup is. Also you might be able to just combine a separate UHF antenna with your main antenna without messing up its reception.

I got the impression from all the posts that you were having trouble at times that others were not. Larry in particular was indicating much less of an issue than you were. I did not sit down and watch KNTV for hours. I just left it on and peeked at it intermittently. I checked it again early this afternoon and it was still fine. It's possible I could have missed it.

In the current situation if there's only the occasional glitch it's probably not going to get fixed. You'll have to put up with it. If that bothers you too much then the answer is to get 11.3.

Chuck

Very helpful post. Thank you.

I previously posted a picture of the roof antenna.

11.1 is 90% better today, so will wait and observe. Will call KNTV tomorrow.
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post #14019 of 14025 Old Today, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
I previously posted a picture of the roof antenna.

Do you have a link to it? 800 posts is a lot to look through.

Chuck
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post #14020 of 14025 Old Today, 06:51 PM
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I was just doing my occasional look through of the OTA channels and found signals to be quite a bit stronger than normal today, for the most part. For example, KAXT 1 is normally touch and go here. Sometimes it's in, sometime's I get "No Signal". Right now it's coming in at SNR 19.5 dB. 27 is coming in at 22 dB and the full power stations from the South Bay are 26 to 28 dB. I'm getting RF 35 at 13 dB, but I don't know if that's channel 3 or channel 7, since I'm getting the same signal strength whether the antennas are pointed to the South Bay or toward Walnut Grove. I've never got a lock on KGO's translator on 35.

With the antennas pointed at Walnut Grove I'm getting 6 at 21 dB, 10 at 19 dB (it's normally stronger than 6, but not today), 31 is at 23 dB, 42 is 26-27 dB, and 52 is 17 dB. For some reason, my usually strongest station, KQCA 58, is at 13 dB, below the cliff edge, when it's normally about 20. Something weird there! 13 is about 14 dB, but if I turn the antenna from 50 to 315 degrees, KOVR 13 is 17-18 dB. This is a reflection of some kind and it's always there and usually quite solid.

North Bay signals are all strong: 22 is at 25 dB and 68 is at 29 dB. I used to be able to do a good signal comparison using channel 50, which was my most distant station, but now that they have the added transmitter on Sutro Tower it comes in at 31-32 dB, and I have no way of receiving the Mt. St. Helena signal.

KTVJ 12 (RF 4) is the only low VHF signal I get and it's at it's usual level of 20-21 dB using the VHF 10 element/UHF XG91 combination antennas. I get a fairly strong signal on RF2 from the South Bay, but the Signal Quality is never good enough to give me PSIP info and a picture.

So that's a quick summary of the somewhat unusual signal strengths this afternoon. Most are up, but a couple are way down.

Anyone else noticing the unusual signal levels?

Larry

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post #14021 of 14025 Old Today, 06:55 PM
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Do you have a link to it? 800 posts is a lot to look through.

Chuck

Not as bad as going through more than 4,600 posts by a highly-esteemed member!!

Here's a picture of the antenna. What are your thoughts now?
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post #14022 of 14025 Old Today, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
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Not as bad as going through more than 4,600 posts by a highly-esteemed member!!

Here's a picture of the antenna. What are your thoughts now?

Oh.... It's a U-100 rotor with a thrust bearing. That was the best TV rotor you could get at the time. Chances are that all that's wrong with it is the capacitor in the control box is bad. The less used they were the faster they went bad. Replace that and it could very well turn again.

I had a hard time finding them but one like this should work:

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...Code=P2IDP2PCP

Most rotors these days are DC and don't require starting capacitors.

That antenna is definitely from the analog days. All those low VHF elements are going to waste unless you watch one of Keith's stations. In your situation an HD7694P is all you really need.

Chuck
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post #14023 of 14025 Old Today, 08:47 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Oh.... It's a U-100 rotor with a thrust bearing. That was the best TV rotor you could get at the time. Chances are that all that's wrong with it is the capacitor in the control box is bad. The less used they were the faster they went bad. Replace that and it could very well turn again.

I had a hard time finding them but one like this should work:

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...Code=P2IDP2PCP

Most rotors these days are DC and don't require starting capacitors.

That antenna is definitely from the analog days. All those low VHF elements are going to waste unless you watch one of Keith's stations. In your situation an HD7694P is all you really need.

Chuck

My Lord. How can you know the model from one view so far away>\?

Yes, the antenna is at least twenty years old. The antenna man said I should not replace it. So a new ballon and new cabling and a ChannelMaster amp splitter and was good to go.

Should I change the antenna?

So I should replace the capacitor my self inside the control unit? I still have the Alliance U-100 with four wires leading to the motor. Have no idea if the repairman disconnected the connection to the rotor. Will that capacitor be suitable for this unit?

How about just buying this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Alli...-/262567556145

Last edited by PeninsulaMark; Today at 08:54 PM.
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post #14024 of 14025 Old Today, 09:12 PM
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KNTV breaking up again

KNTV acting up this evening. Darn, I like AGT.
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post #14025 of 14025 Old Today, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Oh.... It's a U-100 rotor with a thrust bearing.
Since it's a worm drive, the U-100 and U-110 could really take the abuse. At my old rental house, I had a 29 foot long, 14 lb. ham antenna on a push up mast with the U-110 and thrust bearing.

Ron

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