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post #14041 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Sorry. If not a reception problem than what is the problem?

They have a problem somewhere in the transmission chain that looks to us like reception dropouts.

Doug and his contact at the station both responded to my latest e-mail. They say that they haven't seen the issue. Perhaps they just haven't looked at the right time.

The best we can hope for is that they see the problem themselves eventually.

Chuck
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post #14042 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 10:47 AM
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Exclamation Everybody here complain to the KNTV 11.1 ENGINEERS

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They have a problem somewhere in the transmission chain that looks to us like reception dropouts.

Doug and his contact at the station both responded to my latest e-mail. They say that they haven't seen the issue. Perhaps they just haven't looked at the right time.

The best we can hope for is that they see the problem themselves eventually.

Chuck

Everyone please call KNTV 408-432-6221 and press option 4 to report this signal problem. Multiple calls will get their attention.
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post #14043 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
Sorry. If not a reception problem than what is the problem?
Either broken or maladjusted hardware at the broadcaster's end. The transport stream is leaving the transmitter with CE. This could be caused by packet loss in a link upstream of the the transmitter (e.g., in a microwave link, as Chuck suggested) or malfunctioning in the TS encoder (as I had guessed). Either way, it's on KNTV (or their program supplier) regardless of their protestations.
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post #14044 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Either broken or maladjusted hardware at the broadcaster's end. The transport stream is leaving the transmitter with CE. This could be caused by packet loss in a link upstream of the the transmitter (e.g., in a microwave link, as Chuck suggested) or malfunctioning in the TS encoder (as I had guessed). Either way, it's on KNTV (or their program supplier) regardless of their protestations.


Oh! Thanks. A "reception problem" to my stupid mind meant a problem receiving, and didn't distinguish between source and target. "Transmission problem" might be a more accurate description.
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post #14045 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 05:15 PM
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Question Did anyone here call KNTV???????????

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Everyone please call KNTV 408-432-6221 and press option 4 to report this signal problem. Multiple calls will get their attention.

.

So, did anyone here call that number and extension ???????????????????????
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post #14046 of 14067 Old 08-24-2016, 10:11 PM
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NPS Fort Ord Weather Page

As today was an off day for capturing DTV I ran the HDHR on KTNV from 8:33 PM to 9:20 PM to see if there if I could make any sense to the pattern.

First I checked if airplanes were taking off to the South, no.

I did find the "NPS Fort Ord Weather Page" which has the automated tools for determining the marine level height.

http://met.nps.edu/~lind/profiler/profiler_all.html

Larry lists the height for KNTV on Mt. San Bruno to be 1236 feet above sea level. (376.7328 Meters)

The tools are experimental and the notes I have yet to find. It will take some time to understand, when Bill on KTVU talks about the marine layer I can check his source to try and understand.

The question I am looking for an answer to is, the one that Chuck wrote about, the possibility of a microwave link from San Jose to Mt. San Bruno being affected.

In the back of my mind there is the strange idea that KNTV's news is sent to LA where either the network feed or the news is inserted and sent to KVTV's transmitter.

SHF
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post #14047 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 09:09 AM
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Nani, is that HDHR record on your Ethernet-connected gear? You have way too many network errors! The rate of CE is consistent with my Rio recordings, but the network issues cloud the results.
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post #14048 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
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So, did anyone here call that number and extension ???????????????????????
Yeppers, FWIW.
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post #14049 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 09:38 AM
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Thank you calling KNTV

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Yeppers, FWIW.


Thank you. One more person is better than no one. FWIW, this AM it is 90% better, but there is occasional audio drop without pixellation, and the pixellations are reduced in frequency and severity.
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post #14050 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 01:42 PM
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Mark, I'm not sure how you calculated "90% better", but there is an improvement it seems. My 299 CE during the Men's Gold Medal BB game works out to 1.97 CE/minute and I just did a test (results attached) similar to the one that Nani posted and got 0.73 CE/minute.

EDIT: I note that Nani's test evidently yielded 5.64 CE/minute, so the error rate appears to be highly variable over time.
EDIT2: For grins, I did the same test for an hour on KPIX and got 0.000 CE/minute; i.e., none.
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Last edited by TPeterson; 08-25-2016 at 02:31 PM.
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post #14051 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Mark, I'm not sure how you calculated "90% better", but there is an improvement it seems. My 299 CE during the Men's Gold Medal BB game works out to 1.97 CE/minute and I just did a test (results attached) similar to the one that Nani posted and got 0.73 CE/minute.

EDIT: I note that Nani's test evidently yielded 5.64 CE/minute, so the error rate appears to be highly variable over time.
EDIT2: For grins, I did the same test for an hour on KPIX and got 0.000 CE/minute; i.e., none.

90% is calculated precisely by a gut imprecise inaccurate silly feeling.

People, please keep nagging and/or telephoning KNTV and inform him, her, or them of this sub-optimal signal.
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post #14052 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Nani, is that HDHR record on your Ethernet-connected gear? You have way too many network errors! The rate of CE is consistent with my Rio recordings, but the network issues cloud the results.
Yes that test was done with a wireless connection so the "n"'s are bad news. But with a hardwired Ethernet connection to my backup HTPC the "n"s increased to huge numbers. Today I plan to get out a Ethernet cable to connect my laptop to see if that makes a difference.

My laptop is just a few feet from the wireless router. There are five (5) strong networks nearby and sixteen (16) weaker ones. I may do some other testing with my Vista laptop as it uses a different band which has fewer other networks nearby, but not today as watching football is the main activity.
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post #14053 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 04:11 PM
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Unless there's something woefully wrong with your wires, you should see essentially zero "n" in your HDHR tests over the wired network. (Look at my test for example) This is not a something that highly stresses the LAN.
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post #14054 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 04:56 PM
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Unless there's something woefully wrong with your wires, you should see essentially zero "n" in your HDHR tests over the wired network. (Look at my test for example) This is not a something that highly stresses the LAN.

I think the reason was the 50' Ethernet cable.


My W7 laptop is showing no "n"s with a 12' Ethernet cable.


SHF
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post #14055 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 06:36 PM
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KNTV First Half

The beat goes on with KNTV.


I saw little correlation between screen glitches and the sequence errors. Second quarter using my new Sony almost none.


SHF
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post #14056 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
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The beat goes on with KNTV.


I saw little correlation between screen glitches and the sequence errors. Second quarter using my new Sony almost none.


SHF

I happened to be watching in the 2nd quarter too and saw a few glitches but now it stopped. Sure looks like a microwave link fade issue.

Chuck
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post #14057 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 07:37 PM
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I'm seeing it on my Dish satellite feed. Dish gets its signal OTA. I've asked them to contact KNTV...

Bobby 

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post #14058 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 08:27 PM
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KNTV Second Half

Second half was similar to the first half.

Fusion was used for First and Third quarters. Fusion 3.91.00 12/3/2010.

Fusion keeps the last good frame on the screen until a new good frame is decoded. So the smearing is less but a little jumpy. Audio is the best of all my playing capture programs. Fusion has time shifting on so it is always is a little behind.

Sony KDL-48W650D Software Version 4.102-1.200-01 was built this year. Very little smears and no major breakups.

So having a newer HDTV model helps overcoming problems.

Microwave link fade issue, sounds right.

SHF
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post #14059 of 14067 Old 08-25-2016, 10:59 PM
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Question

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I'm seeing it on my Dish satellite feed. Dish gets its signal OTA. I've asked them to contact KNTV...
What is "it" ?

Who is "them" ? Must have missed a post.
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post #14060 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
What is "it" ?

Who is "them" ? Must have missed a post.
The way I read Bobby's post is that the "it" is the break up and the "them" is Dish.

Larry
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post #14061 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
What is "it" ?

Who is "them" ? Must have missed a post.
Satellite companies can get their local channels in two ways. one, via fiber feed and two, via OTA. Dish gets it's feed via OTA. So, if you are seeing an issue via your antenna Dish should be seeing the same. I am seeing the same issue that you are via my satellite feed on Dish. I have contacted Dish, my provider and tens of thousands more in the Bay Area, to get together with KNTV and fix this issue. I think they will listen to a company that is providing service to that many customers and paying for that right.

Clearer now?

Bobby 

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post #14062 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
Satellite companies can get their local channels in two ways. one, via fiber feed and two, via OTA. Dish gets it's feed via OTA. So, if you are seeing an issue via your antenna Dish should be seeing the same. I am seeing the same issue that you are via my satellite feed on Dish. I have contacted Dish, my provider and tens of thousands more in the Bay Area, to get together with KNTV and fix this issue. I think they will listen to a company that is providing service to that many customers and paying for that right.

Clearer now?


100% crystal clarity.

I tried calling KNTV and was very kind and gentle. A man proclaimed himself the chief engineer and insisted, as my neighbor reported, he insisted that there was nothing wrong with their signals and hung up on me.

Best wishes and good luck to Dish.
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post #14063 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
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100% crystal clarity.

I tried calling KNTV and was very kind and gentle. A man proclaimed himself the chief engineer and insisted, as my neighbor reported, he insisted that there was nothing wrong with their signals and hung up on me.

Best wishes and good luck to Dish.

I've had too many experiences like this where the company won't acknowledge a problem or believes it's your problem and treats you badly. It's extremely frustrating. You want to bet they don't monitor their own OTA signal? Hopefully that engineer will have to eat his words eventually.

Chuck
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post #14064 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 04:31 PM
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As I have said, I have been in contact with Dish about this. My contact tells me that there are at least 70 Dish customer complaints on file about audio video breakups on KNTV in the last week. Let's see how long it takes them to listen....

Bobby 

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post #14065 of 14067 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
As I have said, I have been in contact with Dish about this. My contact tells me that there are at least 70 Dish customer complaints on file about audio video breakups on KNTV in the last week. Let's see how long it takes them to listen....
The bits clobbered might be at times in the part such that they will not be paid for airing some commercials .

I assume that checking is digital now so that it will add up soon to the point that management will take action.

SHF
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post #14066 of 14067 Old Today, 12:20 AM
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I used to know the Chief Engineer of KNTV, and so did many of you, as he was quite active on this forum (sorry, can't remember his name). The new CE apparently doesn't appreciate the comments of his viewers like the former CE did. That's too bad.

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post #14067 of 14067 Old Today, 01:02 AM
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As I have said, I have been in contact with Dish about this. My contact tells me that there are at least 70 Dish customer complaints on file about audio video breakups on KNTV in the last week. Let's see how long it takes them to listen....


In the past 12 hours the audio > video has had mild to moderate interruptions at least every five minutes. Other OTA channels look fine. Thanks to everyone who called KNTV.
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