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post #14071 of 14099 Old 08-28-2016, 09:11 PM
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I looked at KNTV, briefly, tonight and saw a squiggle and there were a few audio drop outs. Maybe all is not well yet, but better...

Bobby 

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post #14072 of 14099 Old 08-28-2016, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
KOFY VC 20 RF 19 is off the air. It appears to left the air ~ a few minutes after Noon.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/char...3A35-07%3A00&e=

That time of the day looks suspicious, like a planned outage.

Maybe they have gotten a check from the FCC and no longer want to pay PG&E for the power to run their transmittor. ()

SHF
Hmmm, I had the same thought
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post #14073 of 14099 Old 08-28-2016, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Hmmm, I had the same thought
As a taxpayer I hope that no money will be paid out until the money comes in. (Except that from K-Street of course which has already been received.)

SHF
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post #14074 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
I looked at KNTV, briefly, tonight and saw a squiggle and there were a few audio drop outs. Maybe all is not well yet, but better...

Very intermittent but I saw some video dropouts around 8 am this morning. Big signal at SNR 28-29 dB.

Chuck
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post #14075 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 11:49 AM
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I just read a report on the SF-HDTV Yahoo group that "@ 12:32 Sutro took a power hit yesterday. May be the issue."

As of 11:50 am Monday, KOFY 20 is still off the air.

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post #14076 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 02:30 PM
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Hi all, I'm in Sunnyvale. Could some of the recent issues people are noting with KNTV have anything to do with why my HDHomeRun setup/config programs can no longer see the call sign (guide name/guide number) for KNTV on channel 12? I can view the channel just fine in HDHR's viewer, but BeyondTV can't tune it at all as of this morning and I think it's because all of a sudden the guide name/guide number are blank (where they used to say "KNTV-HD" and "11.1"). I haven't watched a lot of NBC since the Olympics (full of dropouts and stuttering, it was awful), but this started fairly recently since at least for the Olympics we were able to tune the channel.

Under HDHomeRun config, under "Program" where it normally says things like "9.1 KQED-HD" or "7.1 KGO-HD", channel 12 just says "0", like there's no call sign coming in. It has always said "11.1 KNTV-HD" in the past. I don't know if this is a signal issue, a HDHR/SiliconDust issue, or something missing from the feed, but I thought I'd mention it.

I ended up switching to channel 49.5 (11.3) which is better here in the south bay.
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post #14077 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haus123 View Post
Hi all, I'm in Sunnyvale. Could some of the recent issues people are noting with KNTV have anything to do with why my HDHomeRun setup/config programs can no longer see the call sign (guide name/guide number) for KNTV on channel 12? ...
KNTV's PSIP looks good at 7:10 PM and has been ever since I started checking for the Sequence errors.

KOFY came back on the air ~ 4 PM today.

SHF
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post #14078 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 09:25 PM
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Since last year, KNTV started transmitting at two different locations: San Bruno and Milpitas, CA. At San Bruno, they are transmitting on VHF ch. 12 or 11.1. At Mt. Allison in Milpitas, they are using one of the sub-channels of their sister station Telemundo on the UHF channel 49 or 11-3. KSTS is cross transmitted on 48-3 on their San Bruno transmitter. You will have to rescan to There is a campaign on their Facebook page.
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post #14079 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbr600fs View Post
... There is a campaign on their Facebook page.
Do you have a link?
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post #14080 of 14099 Old 08-29-2016, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
KNTV's PSIP looks good at 7:10 PM and has been ever since I started checking for the Sequence errors
Interesting. That must be what was missing, because I just checked again and now the "program" information is showing again. Thanks for clearing that up!
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post #14081 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
KOFY 20-1, 20-2 is gone again. None of my tv's this time (2 Samsungs and 1 LG) has any signal at all. KNTV 11-1, 11-2 has been fine. Anyone else?


11.1 is NOT fine here. Audio much more than video breakups. Professor Fischer: any objective reports?
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post #14082 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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Hmmm, I'll have to check out KNTV a little more closely tonight. The few times we've stopped by for a few minutes it's been ok.
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post #14083 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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I've swapped a few e-mails with Francis at KNTV. He upgraded their encoder software around 11 am after seeing some dropouts on a Samsung TV. Keep an eye on KNTV to see if there is an improvement. The problem seems to be that no one knows exactly what's causing the problem.

Chuck

Last edited by Calaveras; Yesterday at 02:37 PM.
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post #14084 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
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Channel 20 back on the air as of this morning. Watching MEtv (20.2) Bonanza in 16:9 (it's a 4:3 show). I guess they went off the air so they could come back with beautiful squish-o-vision. Cool beans. Yet another OTA station that just doesn't give a carp.
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post #14085 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeninsulaMark View Post
11.1 is NOT fine here. Audio much more than video breakups. Professor Fischer: any objective reports?
I saw earlier in this thread someone suggested 11.3, but you weren't able to see it. I don't know if you ever resolved that, but KNTV's translator (virtual channel) 11.3 is actually on channel 49.5 and is listed as "KSTS" in TVFool (because KSTS is the primary virtual channel 48.1 on channel 49, but KNTV fits a 720p feed in on their subchannel). In SW Sunnyvale/Los Altos I've strugged with the sutro/san bruno signals for a long time, but with KNTV, KGO, and KTVU running translators in the south bay at this point things are looking pretty good with just a basic tabletop antenna. I can't say for sure if 11.3 suffers the same issues as 11.1 since I haven't had much time to test lately, but my signal quality is vastly improved and at least that reduces the impact of signal strength on reception issues. Given its location in Fremont/Milpitas I would think anyone on the peninsula should be able to see it easily with a basic UHF antenna. Where I am it's literally the 2nd signal in the TVFool list, LOS just 14 miles away.

If you're on an HDHomeRun, go into the config tool, type "49" in the channel box, then select subchannel 5 (11.3 KNTV-HD) from the dropdown, and check your levels. Right now I've got signal quality of 100% and strength 96%, while channel 12 (11.1) is at 61% quality. That's a huge difference for me.

Hope that helps, sorry if you've already gotten it working, I just know how much this discovery helped me lately.
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post #14086 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyG View Post
I've found KNTV on Sutro with the channel 48-2. Unfortunately, I don't get guide data for it, but I can watch HD NBC. I'm not sure off hand what frequency it's being brodcast in, but definitely UHF band. Antennaweb doesn't list it, however.<br><br>
Along those lines, does anyone know any ways to alias a station on the Samsung TS-160 or transfer guide data?
KNTV is using Telemundo sub channels to re-transmit their programming at 11-3.
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post #14087 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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I just watched the news from 5-5:30 on KNTV 11-1. No issues at all. Maybe whatever it was has been fixed. 20-2 looks ok as well. No stretch-o-vision, at least on CHiPs.
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post #14088 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 09:04 PM
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As my methods of watching anything on KNTV do not show any serious problems I rely on Toast0's charts which show three days of samples twice a hour. When it is clean for at least two days then I will check closer.

My new Sony TV showed no serious breakups on Football Thursday and playing the capture of Sunday Night Football with Fusion I saw no serious breakups either. Fusion by design shows only good frames so if it cannot decode a new clean frame it does not display it. The picture is jumpy a bit.

I am immune to the problems you are seeing and KNTV does not see.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=12

As for KSTS VC 48 RF 49 it shows only two missed packets at Aug. 29, 2016 10:13:53 PM.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=49

Please understand that I have watched a ton of much worse DTV since my first ATSC tuner card so I know bad. KBCW's football game showed many more problems which were reception problems which I have seen before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
... The problem seems to be that no one knows exactly what's causing the problem.
Chuck
As KNTV likely has close to new equipment like I do their dilemma is understood by me.

----------------------------------------------

Now, if you wish to see a station on Sutro that needs attention, check KCSM.

http://ruka.org/~toast/atscdata/chart.php?c=43

SHF
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post #14089 of 14099 Old Yesterday, 10:02 PM
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Monitoring stations with HDHR "BAT" file.

I have posted the BAT file I use on Windows

HDHomeRun - Dual ATSC or QAM to Ethernet Box

I have different BAT files for each of my HDHR tuners.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; Yesterday at 11:11 PM.
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post #14090 of 14099 Old Today, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I've swapped a few e-mails with Francis at KNTV. He upgraded their encoder software around 11 am after seeing some dropouts on a Samsung TV. Keep an eye on KNTV to see if there is an improvement. The problem seems to be that no one knows exactly what's causing the problem.

Chuck
Well I hoped to see fewer missed Packets on RF 12 but Toast0's chart does not look like there has been any improvement. (7:50 AM 8/31/2016)

I will if you specifically request do more testing, a quick check ~ 8 AM shows Sequence errors.

I have posted the bat file used so if any other people with HDHR tuners wish to make runs from their locations they can. I am willing to help others with varying levels of experience with bat files. Should several people show interest a more friendly method changing of tuners has been thought about but not yet done.

I am going to look more closely at TSReader to see if more information can be supplied. I suspect that the paid version is needed.

SHF
Attached Files
File Type: zip KNTV-2016-08-31.zip (618 Bytes, 3 views)
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post #14091 of 14099 Old Today, 09:00 AM
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Please explain what continuity errors mean?

FromTSReaderLite Support Information

http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/support.html

Quote:
An MPEG-2 transport stream contains data in 188-byte packets. The first four byes of each packet are header and flags and then there's 184 bytes of payload data - video, audio, tables, IP data -- you name it.
In the header, there's a 13-bit field (range 0-8191 decimal) which is the Packet ID (PID) of the packet currently being sent. There is also a four bit field (range 0-15) called the continuity counter. This field increments for each packet sent on that PID. For example, one might see a sequence like:
PID 0 - continuity 0
PID 1 - continuity 0
PID 0 - continuity 1
PID 0 - continuity 2
...
PID 0 - continuity 15
PID 0 - continuity 0
PID 1 - continuity 1
PID 0 - continuity 1

This field is used by receivers (and programs like TSReader) to make sure that the transport stream data is continuous, i.e. it hasn't lost packets. If a receiver tracks the continuity it can determine if packets on a particular PID were lost -- for example if the satellite signal is interrupted. It handles cases except the case when exactly 16 packets (or multiples of 16 packets) were lost on a single PID which is unlikely.
IMHO something is clobbering some of the bits in some packets. If the bits clobbered are the PID and or the continuity counter then a sequence error is detected. The PID will have lost data and video or audio is lost.

If the bits clobbered are in the data packet itself lessor bad things happen.

--------
So far I have been unable to find any way in TSReaderLite to gain more information. Perhaps the PAID version would help but that does not give me hope.

SHF
Attached Files
File Type: zip KNTV TSReader output_8_30_2016.zip (112.8 KB, 3 views)
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post #14092 of 14099 Old Today, 11:00 AM
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For all you OTA fans, you've just got back two channels post repack. The first stage of the incentive auction failed to meet the proceeds target and is starting over at a 114 MHz clearing target.

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000

Based on the amount bid in the first stage ($22.45B), folks are saying an 84 MHz target seems to be about right. At 84 MHz, the UHF band would be channels 14 through 36 inclusive.

Ron

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post #14093 of 14099 Old Today, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post
For all you OTA fans, you've just got back two channels post repack. The first stage of the incentive auction failed to meet the proceeds target and is starting over at a 114 MHz clearing target.

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000

Based on the amount bid in the first stage ($22.45B), folks are saying an 84 MHz target seems to be about right. At 84 MHz, the UHF band would be channels 14 through 36 inclusive.

Ron

Thanks for posting this. I've been wondering where the process was. As an outsider I find the whole process confusing. I assume that the process will be finished when the Net Proceeds exceed the Target. Further, I assume some stations will drop out because they can't get enough money for their station. It'll come down to the stations that simply want out and something is better than nothing.

So after September 16 there'll be another summary showing if the Net Proceeds exceed the Target? So it's possible that there will another reduction in spectrum to be taken from broadcast TV?

Chuck
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post #14094 of 14099 Old Today, 12:22 PM
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September 13 is the date that the 114 MHz reverse stage begins. It will likely run for several weeks, and then we will know the new target. Then another forward stage will occur and we see what the bidders are willing to pay, and that may only take a week or two, and then we'll know what the new net proceeds are. (The first forward auction stage only lasted two weeks.)

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So was the first stage 132 MHz (30-51)?

Chuck
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post #14096 of 14099 Old Today, 12:45 PM
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126 MHz. 30-51.

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126 MHz, channel 37 doesn't count.

Ron

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post #14098 of 14099 Unread Today, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I have posted the BAT file I use on Windows
Thank you for that. I just ran it on KTVU's translator on channel 48. Despite signal values that are "ok"; the output was completely unwatchable for this run, and mirrors toast0's chart showing random missed packets.

Code:
REM FullStream3.bat Working 8/30/2016
 -
"10209027 /tuner0"
Wed 08/31/2016
02:35 PM
auto:48
3: 2.1 KTVU-HD
4: 2.2 LATV
5: 2.3 Movies!
6: 2.4 Buzzr
tsid=0x0141

ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb ss=77 snq=91 seq=100 bps=19392576 pps=0
tun: ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb:677000000 ss=77 snq=91 seq=100 dbg=12151-10269-1409/-1

dev: bps=19392576 resync=0 overflow=0
ts:  bps=19392576 te=0 miss=24593 crc=61
net: pps=0 err=0 stop=0

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
-- Video statistics --
82480 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport errors,
 100166 sequence errors
Terminate batch job (Y/N)? n
ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb ss=77 snq=91 seq=100 bps=19394080 pps=0
tun: ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb:677000000 ss=77 snq=92 seq=100 dbg=12166-10233-1409/-1

dev: bps=19394080 resync=0 overflow=0
ts:  bps=19394080 te=0 miss=126492 crc=286
net: pps=0 err=0 stop=1

Wed 08/31/2016
02:36 PM
Press any key to continue . . .
Then I ran it a couple of minutes later and it's fine:

Code:

REM FullStream3.bat Working 8/30/2016
 -
"10209027 /tuner0"
Wed 08/31/2016
02:47 PM
auto:48
3: 2.1 KTVU-HD
4: 2.2 LATV
5: 2.3 Movies!
6: 2.4 Buzzr
tsid=0x0141

ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb ss=78 snq=91 seq=100 bps=7908032 pps=0
tun: ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb:677000000 ss=78 snq=90 seq=100 dbg=12010-10335-1402/-1

dev: bps=19394080 resync=0 overflow=0
ts:  bps=7908032 te=0 miss=0 crc=0
net: pps=0 err=0 stop=1

....................
-- Video statistics --
38245 packets received, 0 overflow errors, 0 network errors, 0 transport errors,
 0 sequence errors
Terminate batch job (Y/N)? n
ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb ss=79 snq=95 seq=100 bps=19394080 pps=0
tun: ch=auto:48 lock=8vsb:677000000 ss=78 snq=91 seq=100 dbg=12111-10334-1408/-1

dev: bps=19394080 resync=0 overflow=0
ts:  bps=19394080 te=0 miss=0 crc=0
net: pps=0 err=0 stop=1

Wed 08/31/2016
02:48 PM
Press any key to continue . . .
This explains why I keep getting BTV and SageTV complaining about signal dropouts on my KTVU recordings.
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post #14099 of 14099 Unread Today, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haus123 View Post
Thank you for that. I just ran it on KTVU's translator on channel 48. Despite signal values that are "ok"; the output was completely unwatchable for this run, and mirrors toast0's chart showing random missed packets.
...
This explains why I keep getting BTV and SageTV complaining about signal dropouts on my KTVU recordings.
RF 48 was good in the past, we need to check further. Now you need also to enter the End when changing the Start.

---------------------------------------------------------------

RF 49 suddenly got bad in Toast0's chart but when I ran a short test it looked good.

RF 12 now looks clean, so they may have found what was wrong by swapping with RF 49 and seeing it was bad there and then put another good board in.

Cross your fingers.

SHF


P.S. I am very glad that you were able to collect the data. The next step may be TSReaderLite to expand your knowledge.
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