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Old Today, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Well this is odd. 5.2, Laugh In, is 480i, 16:9 but has pillars on the side. Commercials are 16:9 with no pillars and/or stretching.

2-3 Movies! is Author! Author!. 480i, 4:3 Full screen picture, no pillaring or letter boxing, and the pic doesn't look stretched at all.

My tv is an older LG 520. Just checked my settings and the Aspect Ratio is set to 16:9, not Just Scan (which is 1:1 pixel matching).
Laugh In is a 4:3 SD program from the NTSC analog days so it should have pillars and 16:9 commercials should have none.

So 5.2 is operating correctly as the stream is marked 16:9.

2.3 is bad because the stream is marked 4:3. So somehow your HDTV is realizing that 2.3 is actually 16:9 not the 4:3 that KTVU is sending.

If you have the time go to the Rabbitears site and test all the 480i(w) marked streams.

What happens with VC 4.2. It is actually 16:9 but Rabbitears still has it as 4:3.

SHF
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Old Today, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
The guide data in Emby displays the NBC icon for VC 11.3 (this changed from KSTS icon after I contacted SD), but shows the call letters as KSTS-DT3. Emby uses JSON data from SD.
Ah, JSON. That is different from what I am looking at and may have different rules. I am stuck in the old world and unlikely to ever get to JSON.

SHF


EDIT: Emby Premiere costs $$$ and thus SD listings cannot be used AFAIK.

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Old Today, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
What happens with VC 4.2. It is actually 16:9 but Rabbitears still has it as 4:3.
Is it now? The last data I have for KRON is more than three years old, and it was 4:3 then. I'll be glad to update it if that's no longer accurate.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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Old Today, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Ah, JSON. That is different from what I am looking at and may have different rules. I am stuck in the old world and unlikely to ever get to JSON.

SHF


EDIT: Emby Premiere costs $$$ and thus SD listings cannot be used AFAIK.
The Emby developers do good work, every screen I have uses it. I paid them their $99 for Emby Premiere.

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Old Today, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Is it now? The last data I have for KRON is more than three years old, and it was 4:3 then. I'll be glad to update it if that's no longer accurate.

- Trip
Well my Sony says "480i SD 16:9" but it is not in English so my personal interest is low, I just happened to catch it.

How could a HDTV recognize that the stream marked as 4:3 is actually 16:9 and process it using 16:9 rules?

When I looked at the ATSC spec and found that "480i SD 16:9" was legal as well as "480i SD 4:3" was many years ago. Could there be another separate flag now?

SHF
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Old Today, 05:38 PM
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The Emby developers do good work, every screen I have uses it. I paid them their $99 for Emby Premiere.
I hope that Emby is still on the approvedsoftware list (It is) and will remain approved. We need as many SD users as possible to keep SD alive.

SHF
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Old Today, 05:59 PM
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I use my TV's ATSC tuner and have no need to use a pc. As far as I'm concerned, those stations look "normal" to me, or what I would expect given the source, so I have no issue with the way they are being broadcast or how my tv interprets the signal. Sorry if my input is not what you are looking for or need.
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Old Today, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I use my TV's ATSC tuner and have no need to use a pc. As far as I'm concerned, those stations look "normal" to me, or what I would expect given the source, so I have no issue with the way they are being broadcast or how my tv interprets the signal. Sorry if my input is not what you are looking for or need.
It's my poor understanding of the ATSC document and my experience as a programmer that does not understand how what you are describing is happening. I do think your good luck is more widespread as nothing will be seen as wrong and no one will speak up in that case.

Given the number of companies / models / model years / programming teams multiplied together produce the fact that no ATSC tuner is the same and following the rules the ATSC document lays out produces so many strange happenings.

If every HDTV operated like yours we would have no problem and this discussion would have never come up. You got a very good one.

Just wait for ATSC 3.0, many more strange and good things will happen. A huge number of things like turning your TV on when a tornado is approaching. Currently if it is on the station can switch "your" TV to another station.

Hopefully my inability to understand will be changed, I consider my best days when it was shown that a better way than what I was following existed. If I start to read the ATSC 3.0 document some time in the future it may come clear. Never stop learning!

SHF
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Old Today, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
I use my TV's ATSC tuner and have no need to use a pc. As far as I'm concerned, those stations look "normal" to me, or what I would expect given the source, so I have no issue with the way they are being broadcast or how my tv interprets the signal. Sorry if my input is not what you are looking for or need.
I'm not sure you read my comment in the way it was intended. The goal was to confirm a technical error in VC 2.3 broadcast aspect ratio. Most TVs (mine included) are capable of re-scaling horizontally as you described. Because I don't configure my TV to automatically re-scale in this manner, the wrong aspect ratio problem is visible. The ideal fix is at the broadcast end, regardless of the TV's ability to correct it.

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Old Today, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
It's my poor understanding of the ATSC document and my experience as a programmer that does not understand how what you are describing is happening. I do think your good luck is more widespread as nothing will be seen as wrong and no one will speak up in that case.

Given the number of companies / models / model years / programming teams multiplied together produce the fact that no ATSC tuner is the same and following the rules the ATSC document lays out produces so many strange happenings.

If every HDTV operated like yours we would have no problem and this discussion would have never come up. You got a very good one.

Just wait for ATSC 3.0, many more strange and good things will happen. A huge number of things like turning your TV on when a tornado is approaching. Currently if it is on the station can switch "your" TV to another station.

Hopefully my inability to understand will be changed, I consider my best days when it was shown that a better way than what I was following existed. If I start to read the ATSC 3.0 document some time in the future it may come clear. Never stop learning!

SHF
One of the reasons that I purchased the LG (non-Smart TV) was for the ATSC tuner. We had an LG HDTV STB for our old Sony when the transition happened and it worked extremely well for our location and my antenna setup. So when it was time to purchase our first big screen HDTV, LG was at the top of the list because OTA was the only way we wanted to go.

ATSC 3.0 will certainly be challenging and interesting once the dust settles. Looks like some may be going back to the days of external STB's for a period of time, or purchase a new HDTV with an ATSC 3.0 tuner. Either way, I'm not concerned. What happens will happen and I'll just deal with it then. We've been very fortunate with our LG and our location because OTA has been pretty much dead-on-balls for us with virtually no environmental impact (weather) issues at all. I'm not too concerned about tornado's in Evergreen, so far

My understanding of the technical issues is basically non-existent. All I know is what I see and what my tv tells me. We do see 4:3 programming with pillaring from time to time, and there is an occasional stretched picture but it is usually programming that I'm not going to watch anyway and I just happen to come across it while channel surfing.
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