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post #14851 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
At 10:10 PM 4/4 2017 KGO RF 35 looked much better.

This morning I could see no errors.


SHF


Seeing the same here - RF35 appears to be back to its happy self! Just the occasional error'd packet from the demod (i.e. transport error indicator set in the TS packet header), which is normal in my location. I did fire a note off to KGO last night that we're seeing single packet drops and got an email this morning that the word had been passed on to engineering...not sure if they changed anything.
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post #14852 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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I think we may have spoke to soon, just tuned in briefly and 12:54PM and saw the same old stuff.

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post #14853 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
I think we may have spoke to soon, just tuned in briefly and 12:54PM and saw the same old stuff.
Yes I see the same sequence errors on two tuner / antenna system. Video and Audio look good. 1:15 PM 4/5/2017

As RF 7 is clean I do wonder what is happening, temperature / other nearby equipment having a problem?

SHF
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post #14854 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 01:35 PM
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Is there anybody in particular to contact at KGO? If they hear more complaints perhaps they'll be more inclined to investigate.

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post #14855 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Is there anybody in particular to contact at KGO? If they hear more complaints perhaps they'll be more inclined to investigate.
I would suggest that we wait until Larry returns from his visit to Mickey Mouse. He is the best person as he worked there.

They are very touchy about RF 35, I suggest that reports be held back until Larry is available. Many e-mails may have the reverse affect desired.

Only a few viewers are affected I suspect, if a flood of reports appear then it would be different.

The Video and Audio may be affected slightly but is watchable IMHO.

SHF
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post #14856 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I would suggest that we wait until Larry returns from his visit to Mickey Mouse. He is the best person as he worked there.

They are very touchy about RF 35, I suggest that reports be held back until Larry is available. Many e-mails may have the reverse affect desired.

Only a few viewers are affected I suspect, if a flood of reports appear then it would be different.

The Video and Audio may be affected slightly but is watchable IMHO.

SHF
I'm not sure why a signal quality problem would not be seen more broadly. Perhaps the number of people who start to suspect the issue is other than their particular reception is very small, and the number who speak up about it smaller yet. I do not know the history of their "sensitivity" about RF 35. I am fine to wait until @Larry Kenney returns.

Edit: Watchable, yes. But still a disappointment for one of the major networks, and Murphy's Law states the errors will be the worst during a wanted recording.

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post #14857 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 10:03 PM
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I'm back! Disneyland and California Adventure were fantastic, but my poor old body is still suffering. We walked too much!

The KGO translator is fed by a direct feed from the studio in downtown San Francisco, with the OTA receiver used as a back up. If the direct feed goes down, it is supposed to automatically switch to the OTA feed.

I suspect that no one is watching RF35 that closely. For the past year and a half or so, there has been no master control at the KGO studios. The switching for ALL ABC O&O's (Owned and Operated Stations) was moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and I suspect all of the monitoring is done there too. With 10 stations being switched and controlled from that one location, they probably aren't looking closely at the KGO 35 monitor. There's a picture up there and the computer log says everything is good, so all must be fine. That's the new level of broadcast operations. There are few people at the station now.

I know the Chief Engineer of KGO very well (he was my former boss), so I will send him an email advising him of your comments. I have no idea why the signal cleared up for a while and then went back to occasional break ups, but I'll mention that to him, too. I'll pass on his comments if he writes back to me.

I'm unable to receive 35 or 48 here in San Francisco, so I can't comment on the quality at all. Channel 1 (RF42) comes in occasionally; channel 27 (RF 20) comes in 100%, as do the three high powered stations, but I've never seen the two translators.

As for the channel changes, as Stephen said, KGO 7 will be moving to channel 12 when the "big switch" is made sometime in 3 years or so, and KNTV will be moving from 12 to 13. No one has mentioned anything about KGO 35, so we'll have to wait for the FCC report to come out in a couple of weeks. Maybe, since it's a translator, it won't even be mentioned there. Low Power stations and translators are not part of the repack. If a station is assigned to your channel, you must find another one -- that's the way it has been left. If you're channel doesn't get a station assigned you can stay where you are. Some stations have announced and confirmed their move to a new channel and some have confirmed they won't be moving. I've put this information into a third station list, which will be updated as new information is received. You can check out the current status at: http:/www.choisser.com/sfonair3.html

Keith, who operates the One Ministry stations on channels 2, 3, 4 and 6, says he feels they missed the bullet and will be able to remain where they are. There has been word that KRCB is the only station that will be moving to low VHF and they'll be going to channel 5. (It has not been confirmed.) Keith has plans for channel 5 in Monterey, but he doesn't think the KRCB signal will be a problem down there.

Larry
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Last edited by Larry Kenney; 04-05-2017 at 10:07 PM.
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post #14858 of 15287 Old 04-05-2017, 10:38 PM
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Here's an interesting observation --- last night when I was tuning around the band I found something quite weird. KMMC channel 40 was sending out two sub-channels:
40.1 Color Bars and Tone
40.769 KPOP Music
No, that's not a typo. 40.2 and 40.3 had no signal, but 40.769 had a nice looking 16:9 picture.

Channel 28 also has a weird situation. On a couple of my TVs I get Country on 28.15. On other TVs I get Country on 28.32 and nothing on 28.15. Anyone else notice this?

Larry

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post #14859 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
I think we may have spoke to soon, just tuned in briefly and 12:54PM and saw the same old stuff.

Seeing the same thing in MV....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Please tell us more, where the input comes from, a sample of the output ...

Don't worry if it is a little rough. The closest I can remember were some MPG2 tools that I used decades ago.

SHF

Since RF35 is conveniently misbehaving again, I'll explain a bit of what I did to look at it. As I mentioned these are homebrew tools - in other words written in C from the ground up from reading the ISO 13818 specs. They were developed to examine transport streams at various levels (TS/SI, PES, ES, etc.) for various anomalies, and to be honest the output they produce assume you're familiar with bitstream semantics and the types of anomalies that can occur. (I was for a long time affiliated with TiVo engineering, and with another engineer kicked off ATSC as a skunkworks project. It eventually grew a satellite dish and morphed into the DIRECTV HR10-250. We spent a lot of time analyzing bitstreams to figure out which part of the system...or the broadcast...was at fault for the mess we'd see on the screen. Now I use a similar set of tools to look at bitstreams when my homebrew HDHomerun-based DVR misbehaves.)


The tuner I generally use is an HDHomerun HDHR-US (rev 2 - with the Micronas DRXj demod), and occasionally an HDHR4 (though they're usually busy recording things). To start with, as with most others I look at things at a high level with hdhomerun_config. For the RF35 case you get a stream of 's's. So sequence errors are occurring, and there are no uncorrectable packets. Most odd. (A mix of the two generally occurs - and hdhomerun_config will prioritize reporting uncorrectable packets over sequence errors should both occur in a second.)


So next, capture the a sample of the full TS using hdhomerun_config and run it through a TS packet analyzer (atscparse - the output is attached). You'll see a bunch of "continuity counter errors". These are what hdhomerun_config are reporting as sequence errors. Looking at the individual errors, you can see that the continuity counter is always off by 1 from the expected value. In my experience this is a rather rare pattern. You can also see they're scattered across the pids (a longer capture would show that even pid 0x1ffb, which carries the PSI, is affected). And perhaps one of the most interesting data points is the "delta xxxxx" value. It's pretty much in the range of 2250-2260, which means that the packets are being dropped with a fairly regular period. Every 200 ms or so. This would suggest either a failure in the HDHomerun or something before the transmitter, but before the MPTS mux (since whatever's going on is affecting all programs/pids). Since others are seeing this I assume my HDHomerun hasn't gone south and it's more likely to be at the broadcast side.


There are certainly assumptions being made, and it would be fair to say that looking at the modulator/MPTS mux is a reasonable starting point since the cause is less likely to be an RF, receiver, or environmental (e.g. weather) issue.


(These 5-per-second packet losses should result in a more-or-less watchable program if the MPEG decoder has some reasonable error concealment. Others experiencing a more greatly impaired experience could also be having RF reception issues - from 11:01 - 11:10 here in Mountain View, for example, I got a ton of demod errors on RF35.)
Attached Files
File Type: txt atscparse.txt (46.2 KB, 18 views)
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post #14860 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 03:51 AM
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The timing of the packet loss is definitely a clue. I'll guess it's some buffer overflow/underflow condition. Most likely caused by the "two clock problem".

KGO has to send their Transport Stream to the transmitter on Mt. Allison over some telecommunications link. But the rate of the Transport Stream (19.392658 Mbps) must match precisely at both ends of the link. If one rate is even slightly slower or faster than the other, you'll eventually have problems.

Ron
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post #14861 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 10:10 AM
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I'm glad to see the KGO repeater problem getting some attention. Apparently there are technically astute as well as industry-connected people on this forum. Hopefully very specific reporting of the problem results in corrective action on the broadcast end.

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post #14862 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 12:34 PM
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Here is the response I received this morning from the Chief Engineer at KGO:

Hi Larry,

How was Disneyland? The magic does bring back childhood memories!

I went on the Forum a few days ago and saw some of the reported problems with D-35. They are correct. The last big storm occurred about two weeks ago in the San Jose area and knocked out power to Mt. Allison. The site was on generator for 4 days before power was restored by PG&E. The power problem took out three PA modules and switched the microwave feed to the off-air feed. The three failed PA modules were replaced on Monday. So as of Monday, April 3rd, late afternoon, everything had been restored back to normal operation.

There are two items on my list of things to do. One is to move the off-air antenna from the side of the current building to the roof of the front building. This new location has an unobstructed view and a direct line of sight to Sutro Tower. I have received permission by the site owner to go ahead with this. The second item is to do a survey at Allison since KNTV moved all of their microwave equipment from Allison to the KSTS tower about a two weeks ago. The D-35 antenna shoots through the KSTS tower toward San Jose. For a long time, there was not much mounted on that tower. I will need to do a visual inspection on that tower to see if the newly relocated M/W dishes on the tower may or could have altered the D-35 signal path. So stay tuned for that!

If that is the case, some of our OTA viewers may need to reposition their roof top antennas.

Best,
Rich

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post #14863 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Here is the response I received this morning from the Chief Engineer at KGO:

Hi Larry,

How was Disneyland? The magic does bring back childhood memories!

I went on the Forum a few days ago and saw some of the reported problems with D-35. They are correct. The last big storm occurred about two weeks ago in the San Jose area and knocked out power to Mt. Allison. The site was on generator for 4 days before power was restored by PG&E. The power problem took out three PA modules and switched the microwave feed to the off-air feed. The three failed PA modules were replaced on Monday. So as of Monday, April 3rd, late afternoon, everything had been restored back to normal operation.

There are two items on my list of things to do. One is to move the off-air antenna from the side of the current building to the roof of the front building. This new location has an unobstructed view and a direct line of sight to Sutro Tower. I have received permission by the site owner to go ahead with this. The second item is to do a survey at Allison since KNTV moved all of their microwave equipment from Allison to the KSTS tower about a two weeks ago. The D-35 antenna shoots through the KSTS tower toward San Jose. For a long time, there was not much mounted on that tower. I will need to do a visual inspection on that tower to see if the newly relocated M/W dishes on the tower may or could have altered the D-35 signal path. So stay tuned for that!

If that is the case, some of our OTA viewers may need to reposition their roof top antennas.

Best,
Rich
Great news that our efforts are helping. The description given matches my idea as to what might have changed and that solutions are possible.

It also is great that we have a new member that can pin the ATSC stream problems down to a lower level.

SHF
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post #14864 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 02:15 PM
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Same problem here

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
I'm glad to see the KGO repeater problem getting some attention. Apparently there are technically astute as well as industry-connected people on this forum. Hopefully very specific reporting of the problem results in corrective action on the broadcast end.
I too live in the south bay and been getting pixelations on RF 35. Good to know it's being looked at finally. I emailed KGO last week stating I've been having problems for a couple months now and got a response from engineering with no known cause on their end. Now I see there IS something going. I was getting good reception from the RF7, but switched because that signal suddenly got weaker for some reason and that's when I noticed the pixelations on RF35.
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post #14865 of 15287 Old 04-06-2017, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Here's an interesting observation --- last night when I was tuning around the band I found something quite weird. KMMC channel 40 was sending out two sub-channels:
40.1 Color Bars and Tone
40.769 KPOP Music
No, that's not a typo. 40.2 and 40.3 had no signal, but 40.769 had a nice looking 16:9 picture.

Channel 28 also has a weird situation. On a couple of my TVs I get Country on 28.15. On other TVs I get Country on 28.32 and nothing on 28.15. Anyone else notice this?

Larry
40.1 is now 16:9 and a shopping channel (Vanishing Vault Jewry)
40.2 is also 16:9 and is KPOP. I stand corrected about my comment that KMTP's 62.6 KPOP is 4:3, it should be 16:9 but soon to be 0:0 and black like 32.2 and 32.4 IMHO. NOT the same feed, they are different but have the same bug.

Both are 480i.

1: 40.1 Program
769: 40.2 KPOP
2817:0 Which my Sony does not see but HDHR + VLV Media Player shows the same as 40.1

Somebody does not know their PSIP.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 04-06-2017 at 07:30 PM.
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post #14866 of 15287 Old 04-07-2017, 10:22 PM
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The day after release of the Incentive Auction Closing and Channel Reassignment Public Notice, the Commission will make available complete forward auction round-by-round results, including bidder identities. These results will be available to bidders and to the public in the Public Reporting System.
https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/p..._announcements

The Public Reporting System saying anything is surprising!

SHF
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post #14867 of 15287 Old 04-08-2017, 02:41 AM
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Note that it says "forward auction" meaning wireless companies. "Reverse auction" would be TV broadcaster bidding data, and that's required by law to be kept confidential for at least two years.

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post #14868 of 15287 Old 04-08-2017, 09:50 AM
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Note that it says "forward auction" meaning wireless companies. "Reverse auction" would be TV broadcaster bidding data, and that's required by law to be kept confidential for at least two years.

- Trip
Yes, I should have said something like, if you are planning to move to a different market and wonder if your XYX cheap phone plan will be available in the new market in the future, then you may have a clue. And how interested they are in expanding. Note: My mobile phone cost is $0.0 and I have no coverage. Should I need to get a mobile phone I would want one that works where I might move to in the future.

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post #14869 of 15287 Old 04-09-2017, 06:06 PM
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Is there anybody in particular to contact at KGO? If they hear more complaints perhaps they'll be more inclined to investigate.
Well, considering that I've seen digital stations not broadcast audio (silent picture), only broadcast left channel audio, etc., for literally months on end, I'm not sure anybody is actually watching to complain, or the stations just don't care or are competent/staffed to fix even egregious problems.

A few years ago, I did talk with the KGO "engineer" (he actually called me back) after I complained about tinny echo-y sound on the channel in my surround sound system that had been a problem for weeks. He was non-committal and said he didn't know what the problem was or if it even existed. I DID misinform him that I thought the problem was specific to KGO and not any other ABC stations, but later I checked channel 10 in Sacramento, and sure enough the sound was bad on that channel too, so who knows, maybe it was an ABC thing.

The sound problem persisted for several more weeks, and then was OK again. The only other time I called a digital station was KNTV because their signal was actually crashing my TV requiring a complete hardware reset to restore the TV to the minimal function to change the channel (a power-cycle did nothing) quickly before it crashed again (I had to reset the TV about three times before I could change the channel quickly enough). I left a message on their answering machine and the problem was apparently fixed a few hours later.

--
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post #14870 of 15287 Old 04-09-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
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40.1 is now 16:9 and a shopping channel (Vanishing Vault Jewry)
40.2 is also 16:9 and is KPOP. I stand corrected about my comment that KMTP's 62.6 KPOP is 4:3, it should be 16:9 but soon to be 0:0 and black like 32.2 and 32.4 IMHO. NOT the same feed, they are different but have the same bug.

Somebody does not know their PSIP.

SHF
Well, PSIP is all "technical" and stuff...

What's weird about KPOP is I went to their 24hrkpop.com website and the video is also incorrectly 4:3 so I don't know where they are getting their web-site video from, I guess just the TV station broadcast video. I guess I'll just watch it on some other channel in the correct aspect ratio (the anamorphic 4:3 makes the 12-year-old girls on the channel look like they only weigh 47 pounds and not the actual 62 pounds).

I noted a new channel listed on TitanTV, something like 36.5 called "LightTV", but it doesn't show up on my TV or any other devices before or after a re-scan so I don't know what that's about. I guess it makes up for all the channels I do have scanned that actually don't have any video...

--
max
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post #14871 of 15287 Old 04-09-2017, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
I noted a new channel listed on TitanTV, something like 36.5 called "LightTV", but it doesn't show up on my TV or any other devices before or after a re-scan so I don't know what that's about. I guess it makes up for all the channels I do have scanned that actually don't have any video...

--
max
"LightTV" is a new service that will be broadcast on Fox O&O stations, so apparently KICU (excuse me, KTVU Plus) will be carrying it. I haven't seen a start date yet. 36.5 hasn't shown up yet on my HD Home Run receiver scans.

Larry

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post #14872 of 15287 Old 04-09-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, I should have said something like, if you are planning to move to a different market and wonder if your XYX cheap phone plan will be available in the new market in the future, then you may have a clue. And how interested they are in expanding. Note: My mobile phone cost is $0.0 and I have no coverage. Should I need to get a mobile phone I would want one that works where I might move to in the future.

SHF
Though a bit off topic, cell phone coverage is tracked by various entities. One that I like is https://opensignal.com/network-coverage-maps/ Open Signal which uses crowd-sourced information gathered from users' phones by location. You can look at coverage provided by various vendors on a map. The results have tracked with experience by me and by friends as to where we did or did not have cell signal. For example, one friend said that AT&T didn't have good signal at his new house, so he switched to Verizon which did.
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post #14873 of 15287 Old 04-10-2017, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Is there anybody in particular to contact at KGO? If they hear more complaints perhaps they'll be more inclined to investigate.



I've exchanged a couple emails with an engineer there. He explained that RF35 is the exact same signal that is being modulated on RF35 and RF7 and that he did check some of the equipment on RF35 which showed no packets being lost. He believes it to be a receiver issue. While I don't agree, it's not an unreasonable assertion for him to make and I'm sure the vast majority of issues KGO gets are in fact receivers that aren't to spec or various other RF interference issues.


Perhaps as a community we can help sort out what the issue is. But we also need to be clear on which issue(s) we're looking at. My original comments (and what I'm looking at) are single-packet drops. Once every 180 ms or so, a packet disappears from RF35. If you use hdhomerun_config's "save" command, this is all the 's's that appear in the output. Losing 5-7 packets/s will cause some artifacts but things should still be rather watchable. So I wonder if others are seeing something else. When I find some cycles I'll modify hdhomerun_config so it'll spit out some info that may be a bit more useful in diagnosing things and post it here.


Now as for the single-packet drops ever 180 ms or so...RF7 and RF35 are not identical broadcasts. I would swear that they used to be (with the obvious exception of PSIP identifying the stations differently). However recently I noticed that the PCRs are different on 7-1. During the rains when I was having a hell of a time getting KGO, I had an idea I could take 7-1 from RF7 and 7-1 from RF35 and merge the two together post-demodulation. The various RF issues are different for each, so it seemed likely that when I was having problems receiving on one, the other may be fine. It worked out quite well, except to my surprise the PCRs on the two were different, which threw off the compare of the two transport streams. What this suggests is that the same encoder is being used for audio/video elementary streams so the ES for RF7 and RF35 are the same. The PES layer also appears to be the same. But the MPTS level, where all the programs/PIDs get multiplexed and PCRs get generated, are not the same. I'm also seeing additional packets on pid 0x1fff (the null pid - stuffing), at roughly the same rate that packets are being lost on programs. There are a few more things that I plan to check out before going back to KGO...It's nice that KGO has responsive engineers and I'd prefer not to waste their time.



(BTW, my original query on whether KGOLD was going away had to do with SchedulesDirect dropping it from their lineup - not with what may happen to it in the repack. I'm still going back and forth with SchedulesDirect to get KGOLD reinstated.)
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post #14874 of 15287 Old 04-10-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by minakami View Post
I've exchanged a couple emails with an engineer there. He explained that RF35 is the exact same signal that is being modulated on RF35 and RF7 and that he did check some of the equipment on RF35 which showed no packets being lost. He believes it to be a receiver issue. While I don't agree, it's not an unreasonable assertion for him to make and I'm sure the vast majority of issues KGO gets are in fact receivers that aren't to spec or various other RF interference issues.


Perhaps as a community we can help sort out what the issue is. But we also need to be clear on which issue(s) we're looking at. My original comments (and what I'm looking at) are single-packet drops. Once every 180 ms or so, a packet disappears from RF35. If you use hdhomerun_config's "save" command, this is all the 's's that appear in the output. Losing 5-7 packets/s will cause some artifacts but things should still be rather watchable. So I wonder if others are seeing something else. When I find some cycles I'll modify hdhomerun_config so it'll spit out some info that may be a bit more useful in diagnosing things and post it here.


Now as for the single-packet drops ever 180 ms or so...RF7 and RF35 are not identical broadcasts. I would swear that they used to be (with the obvious exception of PSIP identifying the stations differently). However recently I noticed that the PCRs are different on 7-1. During the rains when I was having a hell of a time getting KGO, I had an idea I could take 7-1 from RF7 and 7-1 from RF35 and merge the two together post-demodulation. The various RF issues are different for each, so it seemed likely that when I was having problems receiving on one, the other may be fine. It worked out quite well, except to my surprise the PCRs on the two were different, which threw off the compare of the two transport streams. What this suggests is that the same encoder is being used for audio/video elementary streams so the ES for RF7 and RF35 are the same. The PES layer also appears to be the same. But the MPTS level, where all the programs/PIDs get multiplexed and PCRs get generated, are not the same. I'm also seeing additional packets on pid 0x1fff (the null pid - stuffing), at roughly the same rate that packets are being lost on programs. There are a few more things that I plan to check out before going back to KGO...It's nice that KGO has responsive engineers and I'd prefer not to waste their time.



(BTW, my original query on whether KGOLD was going away had to do with SchedulesDirect dropping it from their lineup - not with what may happen to it in the repack. I'm still going back and forth with SchedulesDirect to get KGOLD reinstated.)
I'm glad you're collecting data that may help identify the root cause of the issue. Like yourself, I am skeptical that KGO RF 35 is purely a receiver problem. The only acronyms I recognized out of the above post are RF and PID

I also have a couple HDHomeruns connected to two separate antennae and could provide data as well, at least using the tools already in Silicondust's software.

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post #14875 of 15287 Old 04-11-2017, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by minakami View Post
I've exchanged a couple emails with an engineer there.
I received a note from my old boss today saying that he'd been having some interesting conversations with you. You've been talking to the KGO Chief Engineer.

I hope you figure out what the problem is. Good luck!

Larry

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post #14876 of 15287 Old 04-11-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
I'm glad you're collecting data that may help identify the root cause of the issue. Like yourself, I am skeptical that KGO RF 35 is purely a receiver problem. The only acronyms I recognized out of the above post are RF and PID

I also have a couple HDHomeruns connected to two separate antennae and could provide data as well, at least using the tools already in Silicondust's software.
I don't generally watch PC 35, but when I do, I have noticed in the last few months there are characteristic glitches in the video. It seems as scenes change the new scene has a few hundred pixels left over from the last scene.

My antenna is pointed more towards Sutro because I get much better signal strength/SNR from that transmitter, and I don't watch a lot of the re-transmitters from the Sutro (or San Bruno) transmitters. I assumed the video glitches on PC 35 were due to a worse signal, but they might be due to something else, since generally, the audio would be interrupted with that type of video disruption and it wouldn't look exactly like that (these glitches seem to follow some type of I-frame contrast-y holdover rather than the more random macroblocking with low SNR/interference).

Oh, something I never complained about to KGO was a problem with the audio on 7-2, which again sounded like it was coming out of tin box on my system. Since I hardly ever watch 7-2 I didn't care, but it was like that for at least the better part of two years (it's OK now)...

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post #14877 of 15287 Old 04-12-2017, 07:37 PM
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The final FCC report on the auction is due to be published soon. This week? Next week? As I understand it, once the report is published the stations that are going off the air have 3 months to do so.

Has there been any on-air announcements from any suspected "going off" stations in the Bay Area? Maybe they'll just switch off the transmitter and that's it.

Chuck
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post #14878 of 15287 Old 04-12-2017, 08:34 PM
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The final FCC report on the auction is due to be published soon. This week? Next week? As I understand it, once the report is published the stations that are going off the air have 3 months to do so.

Has there been any on-air announcements from any suspected "going off" stations in the Bay Area? Maybe they'll just switch off the transmitter and that's it.

Chuck
As KCSM was sold long ago I suspect the power will be cut as soon as the FCC check arrives.

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post #14879 of 15287 Old 04-13-2017, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
The final FCC report on the auction is due to be published soon. This week? Next week? As I understand it, once the report is published the stations that are going off the air have 3 months to do so.

Has there been any on-air announcements from any suspected "going off" stations in the Bay Area? Maybe they'll just switch off the transmitter and that's it.

Chuck
I haven't seen any here.

It's interesting that you said "they'll just switch off the transmitter" because that's what KRCB does every night at midnight. They don't mention going off the air at all, but at precisely 12 midnight the transmitter goes off. Their signal continues on Comcast cable however. I guess they can't afford the PG&E bill for the 12 to 6 am period.

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post #14880 of 15287 Old 04-13-2017, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
As I understand it, once the report is published the stations that are going off the air have 3 months to do so.
(Reply copied from the HDTV Technical thread.)

A note of clarification here. Stations that are not channel sharing have three months to go off the air--once they are paid. Stations that are channel sharing get six months once they are paid, and can seek extensions if there are delays beyond their control. So until the wireless companies pay for what they bought and it gets turned around to the stations by the FCC, the clocks don't start.

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Has there been any on-air announcements from any suspected "going off" stations in the Bay Area? Maybe they'll just switch off the transmitter and that's it.
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As KCSM was sold long ago I suspect the power will be cut as soon as the FCC check arrives.
The FCC requires on-air announcements for 30 days. There may be more to it than that, but I know that much for sure.

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