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post #181 of 11606 Old 10-18-2004, 02:10 PM
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Hi,

I'm in San Jose area (west side, bordering campbell, near San Tomas and Payne).

I've an old roof top antenna which I've connected to LG LST 4200A. I'm getting CBS, NBC, and ABC at about 50% signal strength. LG just shows a green bar from bad to good. And the bars are little less than half way.

But I'm not getting any FOX, PBS, WB or UPN. Went to antennaweb.org. punched in my home address. ABC and CBS are coming from the same place (distance and compass orientation) as FOX, PBS, WB and UPN.
The distance is 40.9 miles at 305 deg.

The antenna is quite high and probably very very old. But since it can receive CBS and ABC, I would think it would have received other channels pointing in same direction and distance.

A neighbor acress the street is using a Radio Shack outdoor antenna and getting all the signals. Will take my box to his house today and make sure its not busted.

Any other ideas ?

Thanks

Mudit
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post #182 of 11606 Old 10-18-2004, 08:40 PM
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Is your ant VHF, UHF or both? You need UHF. Check/redo your connectors, especially those outside. Is it connected w/RG6 or 59 cable? Should be RG6.

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
Hi,

I'm in San Jose area (west side, bordering campbell, near San Tomas and Payne).

I've an old roof top antenna which I've connected to LG LST 4200A. I'm getting CBS, NBC, and ABC at about 50% signal strength. LG just shows a green bar from bad to good. And the bars are little less than half way.

But I'm not getting any FOX, PBS, WB or UPN. Went to antennaweb.org. punched in my home address. ABC and CBS are coming from the same place (distance and compass orientation) as FOX, PBS, WB and UPN.
The distance is 40.9 miles at 305 deg.

The antenna is quite high and probably very very old. But since it can receive CBS and ABC, I would think it would have received other channels pointing in same direction and distance.

A neighbor acress the street is using a Radio Shack outdoor antenna and getting all the signals. Will take my box to his house today and make sure its not busted.

Any other ideas ?

Thanks

Mudit

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post #183 of 11606 Old 10-18-2004, 10:20 PM
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On my last try at positioning on antenna to get the KTVU-HD signal in Sunnyale, California, after not getting even of sniff of it indoors or out, I sat the Terk 55 on top of the wooden fence between my townhouse unit and my neighbor's. Channel 2 HD came in perfectly! I suspected any of a number of four-foot antennas would have worked in that location, but the Terk is slim and unobtrusive. I don't think I can mount it there, but I may look into making a small hole near my door with a coax cable sticking out of it. Using the little flat cable they give you for running the cable out a window works under the front door, but it's a bit awkward.

SI
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post #184 of 11606 Old 10-19-2004, 01:27 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
[b]Hi,

I'm in San Jose area (west side, bordering campbell, near San Tomas and Payne).

I've an old roof top antenna which I've connected to LG LST 4200A. I'm getting CBS, NBC, and ABC at about 50% signal strength. LG just shows a green bar from bad to good. And the bars are little less than half way.

I live in the Evergreen Area and have the same STB. I get everything including KNTV 48.2 perfectly most of the time. My antenna is on the roof and is an 18 year old Winegard log-periodic (UHF-VHF-FM). My signal strength is the same as yours. I did change the cableing outside to RG-6 to where it connects in the garage. The rest of the inside cableing is probably RG-55 or 56. Make sure your antenna is UHF as well as VHF and check your cable connections.
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post #185 of 11606 Old 10-19-2004, 03:44 PM
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The antenna is very old, probably 15-20 yrs old. I do get all the analog channels, though the quality is okay on a 13" TV and goes down to 27" and then to very bad on 50" TV. So, I guess it is UHF and VHF.

The antenna is a on a probably 10-15 ft pole. So, I dont think its possible to re-orient it or change the cable.

Got the "famous" silver sensor from fry's today. No luck in getting all the channels. I got FOX and PBS but lost CBS and ABC !
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post #186 of 11606 Old 10-20-2004, 03:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
The antenna is very old, probably 15-20 yrs old. I do get all the analog channels, though the quality is okay on a 13" TV and goes down to 27" and then to very bad on 50" TV. So, I guess it is UHF and VHF.

The antenna is a on a probably 10-15 ft pole. So, I dont think its possible to re-orient it or change the cable.

It's unfortunate that you can't re-orient the antenna. That might be all you need to do. I can't change the cable coming down from my antenna either but the cable is only about 25' long so I have it connected underneath the eaves to a signal separator so I can run the FM signal to my stereo receiver. The VHF-UHF signal is then run thru the RG-6 cable to my garage where it is split to 3 tv's.


Got the "famous" silver sensor from fry's today. No luck in getting all the channels. I got FOX and PBS but lost CBS and ABC !

From what I've read the Silver Sensor is hit and miss. It seems to me that the only reliable way to get OTA reception is with an outdoor antenna on an at least a 15' mast with a rotor.
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post #187 of 11606 Old 10-20-2004, 03:16 PM
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The wire from roof top antenna is split into 2. One wire is going to master bedroom which has a 13" TV. The other wire (which is probably much longer than the bedroom wire) is going to the family room where the HDTV is placed.

I connected my LG tuner to the master bedroom antenna wire and I get _ALL_ the channels. I mean every single channel which is listed in antennaweb.org. The signal strength is about 50-60% which is fine for the tuner.

So, I think the antenna is not an issue here. Either the splitter on the roof top is probably damaged for the family room wire or the wire itself is damaged.

I'd have to climb up on the roof probably today or tomorrow. Atleast its not raining today but it may be slippery.

Will use the excuse to clean the rain gutters, otherwise wifey wont let me climb on the wet roof :-)

Thanks

Mudit
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post #188 of 11606 Old 10-20-2004, 03:20 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Otto Pylot
From what I've read the Silver Sensor is hit and miss. It seems to me that the only reliable way to get OTA reception is with an outdoor antenna on an at least a 15' mast with a rotor.

Your mileage may vary with the Silver Sensor. I get all locals except KNTV with it, and it is a tiny little thing I have hidden in a foot locker.

Even if I was guaranteed perfect KNTV reception I would not add an outdoor antenna with a large mast. For one, I get the national NBC feed from DirecTV. And for two, I prefer the house to look like we are in the 21st century with only a small DirecTV dish, rather than a throwback to the mid 20th century with some big-ass antenna protruding from the roof. On the other hand, if I got no reception with the Silver Sensor then I would have to consider that possibility.
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post #189 of 11606 Old 10-20-2004, 04:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
Got the "famous" silver sensor from fry's today. No luck in getting all the channels. I got FOX and PBS but lost CBS and ABC !

I can't remember the site but someone has written a great deal on using indoor antennae, and recommends keeping it horizontal, but getting a long RF cable and raising it to the celing, close to windows, etc. But it's most likely a situation of distance and terrain can only be solved by height, e.g., a rooftop solution.

My sincere thanks to everyone who makes AVSforum such an awesome resource.
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post #190 of 11606 Old 10-20-2004, 04:27 PM
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And I would also remind that many people are having trouble with some stations from Sutro even though they get others, myself included, and it's not been explained why, to my knowledge.

My sincere thanks to everyone who makes AVSforum such an awesome resource.
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post #191 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 12:21 PM
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Greg, The reason why is simple: many of the digital broadcasts on Sutro are at power levels much smaller than the analog transmissions. The weaker UHF signals won't punch through foliage in some cases. In other cases the greater range of the VHF analog transmissions produces satisfactory results while the lesser UHF signal propagation does not.

If your reception improves after the leaves drop in the coming weeks, tree foliage is likely a factor. Only a bigger antenna or extra antenna height is likely to resolve such reception issues.

If you get any kind of signal, even with breakups, and you have a degree of freedom to experiment with antenna positions and large high gain antennas, chances are really excellant that you can get acceptable reception on those marginal channels.

Gary

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post #192 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 12:52 PM
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Gary thanks for chiming in, a lot of posters in this thread had been perplexed and that seems to be a very rational explanation. I'm moving at the end of the month but luckily I think I'm still going to have a visual line of sight to Sutro. Although with Directv I'm less annoyed about local reception issues than I was, especially with NBC HD.

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post #193 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 01:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Gary McCoy
The reason why is simple: many of the digital broadcasts on Sutro are at power levels much smaller than the analog transmissions.

A year or so ago I went to a HDTV interest group meeting where an engineer had a drawing of the tower with each transmitter location identified. At that time the HD transmitters were all toward the bottom of the tower. If that's still the case then line of sight would be less than expected.
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post #194 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by fizbin
Your mileage may vary with the Silver Sensor. I get all locals except KNTV with it, and it is a tiny little thing I have hidden in a foot locker.

Even if I was guaranteed perfect KNTV reception I would not add an outdoor antenna with a large mast. For one, I get the national NBC feed from DirecTV. And for two, I prefer the house to look like we are in the 21st century with only a small DirecTV dish, rather than a throwback to the mid 20th century with some big-ass antenna protruding from the roof. On the other hand, if I got no reception with the Silver Sensor then I would have to consider that possibility.

I can certainly appreciate your sentiments about the roof-top antenna but not everyone is willing to pay for tv (satellite or cable) so for those of us in the apparent minority, the antenna is the only option for HDTV. Besides, three other houses in our neighborhood have roof-top antennas so we don't stick out
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post #195 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:10 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
[b]The wire from roof top antenna is split into 2. One wire is going to master bedroom which has a 13" TV. The other wire (which is probably much longer than the bedroom wire) is going to the family room where the HDTV is placed.

I connected my LG tuner to the master bedroom antenna wire and I get _ALL_ the channels. I mean every single channel which is listed in antennaweb.org. The signal strength is about 50-60% which is fine for the tuner.

So, I think the antenna is not an issue here. Either the splitter on the roof top is probably damaged for the family room wire or the wire itself is damaged.


That does sound like your wire/splitter which is good. Replacing a roof-top antenna is not a fun thing to do. My line coming into the garage from the roof goes into an amplifier and then is split for 3 tv's before going into the house. Maybe just changing your splitter will solve your problem.
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post #196 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:16 PM
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fizbin,

If one watches a LOT of TV including premium channels (HBO, Showtime, ESPN, etc), then DishHD is the way to go, nothing less than that.

But can you imagine that there are people still like us, who only watch couple of hours of commercial-laden prime time FREE over the air in HDTV quality ? And, yes, we really enjoy the shows like CSI.*, Survivor, Lost, Everwood, Bachelor(ette), Simpons, Jerry Springer, .......

I think you get the picture (pun intended) :-)

Thanks

Mudit
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post #197 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by htwaits
A year or so ago I went to a HDTV interest group meeting where an engineer had a drawing of the tower with each transmitter location identified. At that time the HD transmitters were all toward the bottom of the tower. If that's still the case then line of sight would be less than expected.
Here's a PDF file of the antenna setup on Sutro,

 

sutro_antenna.pdf 93.701171875k . file
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File Type: pdf sutro_antenna.pdf (93.7 KB, 16 views)
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post #198 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:47 PM
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I've seen that picture before .... I was hoping you had a newer version than 1998. Anyway, the digital UHF transmitters then were all at Level 5 & 6, the stuff near the bottom is the backup analog antennas, hooked to backup transmitters that are normally not on-air.

It's a good point though .... height above ground matters at both ends.

Gary

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post #199 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 03:56 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Gary McCoy
I've seen that picture before .... I was hoping you had a newer version than 1998. Anyway, the digital UHF transmitters then were all at Level 5 & 6, the stuff near the bottom is the backup analog antennas, hooked to backup transmitters that are normally not on-air.

It's a good point though .... height above ground matters at both ends.

Gary

Got that from the Yahoo HDTV Forum, I don't think any of the antennas have changed locations since 1998, but I could be wrong.

Jim
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post #200 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 04:03 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Otto Pylot
I can certainly appreciate your sentiments about the roof-top antenna but not everyone is willing to pay for tv (satellite or cable) . . .

There is something I find ironically humorous about folks who spend thousands on HDTV (and usually other associated AV components) and then balk at paying for cable or sat. To each his/her own . . .
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post #201 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 04:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
fizbin,

If one watches a LOT of TV including premium channels (HBO, Showtime, ESPN, etc), then DishHD is the way to go, nothing less than that.

Personally I'd vote for (and did buy) HD TiVo, which is a DirecTV-based product. It works great! Unfortunately, 90% of what I watch on TV is SD, not HD. These playoffs are excellent in HD, however!
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post #202 of 11606 Old 10-21-2004, 04:12 PM
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I meant by Satellite based HD, not as in Dish Brand. So, whichever Dish (Satellite Dish) HD gives you best overall program, go with it !
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post #203 of 11606 Old 10-23-2004, 06:21 PM
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A few days ago I had a great HD picture on the Fox coverage of the baseball playoffs with a Terk 55 antenna sitting out on the fence between my unit and my neighbors. With everything connnected the same way and the antenna in the same place, I've got nothing today. Other channels, but no KTVU. Wha hoppen?

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post #204 of 11606 Old 10-23-2004, 09:13 PM
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I'm wondering if Saturday's Game1 of the World Series is even being broadcast in HD. I assumed it would be, like at least some of the playoff games, but since I can't get any signal tonight and since Joe Buck hasn't mentioned "....broadcasting in 720P...world's finest High-Definition standard..." I'm beginning to wonder. They have mentioned that football tomorrow would be in HD, and then they mentioned baseball, but I didn't hear anything that said the baseball would be in HD. I'm trying to figure out if I'm driving myself crazier for no reason trying to figure out why my setup now doesn't work. I changed the cables to my Terk 55 out on the fence from the too-long "experimental" setup (which worked a few days ago) of some low-end Monster from Radio Shack on on side of the flat cable under the door and a 50-foot Radio Shack quad-shield RG6 to a pair of 12-footers cheap double-shielded RG6 cables on either side plus the 3-footer that came with the antenna ''cuz I needed just a few more feet. The connections seem OK, I'm getting some stations, and the antenna is located where it worked before, but no KTVU-HD. Does somebody know for sure if it is (or was, if don't see this until after the game) on?

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post #205 of 11606 Old 10-24-2004, 12:42 AM
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Game was in HD.
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post #206 of 11606 Old 10-24-2004, 10:24 AM
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Is anyone in Fremont (94536 zip) able to receive KTVU-DT ? I am able to receive all other DTs broadcasting from Sutro except for 2-1. I am using an outside UHF/VHF antenna pointed at 285 degrees. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #207 of 11606 Old 10-24-2004, 11:44 AM
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post #208 of 11606 Old 10-24-2004, 06:04 PM
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I am having the same issues as SI67 and Idarin. I installed my OTA antenna (CM4228) a few days ago and was pulling in KTVU-DT fine. Signal strength was in the high 50s, although the signal strength for everything else coming off the Sutro Tower was much higher (mid-80s).

Now, everything else still comes in fine, but KTVU-DT is nowhere to be found. Has Fox significantly decreased the strength of their signal? Anyone else seeing this, or (more importantly) have any suggestions on how to fix it?

I am going to try for the waiver to get high definition Fox programming over the satellite, but any advice would be much appreciated.

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
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post #209 of 11606 Old 10-24-2004, 07:31 PM
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Well, the Terk 55 on the fence that worked so well did nothing for me on Saturday for Game 1. I have an arsenal of antennae to try, and I went to Radio Shack for various lengths of quad-shielded coax RG-6 (is it really any better than "standard" dual-shielded RG-6?) to try various locations. I'll drill holes and get shorter runs if I find a good "permanent" location though I may end up using two antennae to get more stations. Anyway, in advance of World Series Game 2, I used the football game to see how things stood. I had intermittent picture on HD with a signal strength of about 62% on the Pioneer's tuner. Not god enough. I took the Terk up to my bedroom with a 100-foot cable and stuck it atop a big box in the window in the same orientation that worked outside. No Channel 2.01! @#$%&

Will metal mini-blinds (open or closed?) hurt reception? I raised them out of the way. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm crazy. Still nada with the Terk.

Last hope: I tried the Samsung "Digital HDTV UHF Amplified Inddor Antenna" I got from Best Buy. It was reduced in price a bit, as someone else had already tried it and returned it. It looks like the top of the head of Gaos (bad-guy monster in Japan's Gamera flicks) and can be pivoted. I pointed it in the direction that had worked for the Terk and am getting KTVU-HD solidly with 80% signal strength!! I am not getting all the local HD stations but haven't tried pointing other directions yet.

Steve
Sunnyvale

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post #210 of 11606 Old 10-25-2004, 01:32 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by SI67
[b]Well, the Terk 55 on the fence that worked so well did nothing for me on Saturday for Game 1. I have an arsenal of antennae to try, and I went to Radio Shack for various lengths of quad-shielded coax RG-6 (is it really any better than "standard" dual-shielded RG-6?) to try various locations. I'll drill holes and get shorter runs if I find a good "permanent" location though I may end up using two antennae to get more stations. Anyway, in advance of World Series Game 2, I used the football game to see how things stood. I had intermittent picture on HD with a signal strength of about 62% on the Pioneer's tuner. Not god enough. I took the Terk up to my bedroom with a 100-foot cable and stuck it atop a big box in the window in the same orientation that worked outside. No Channel 2.01! @#$%&


I'm thinking that it has to be your antenna set-up. I'm in San Jose and I get everything just fine, even KNTV (48.2) from Fremont. My cable run is about 150'. 100' is "standard" RG-6 outside under the eaves, the rest is whatever was put into the house when it was built 19 years ago. The antenna is on the roof on a 10-15' mast. Standard UHF-VHF-FM. The signal is amplified in the garage where the outside cable comes in and before it connects to the inside cable. My tuner is an LG-4200A.
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