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San Francisco, CA - OTA

2M views 20K replies 1K participants last post by  jamesm113 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of upgrading to an HDTV and have some questions for those getting OTA HD in the Bay Area.


I live in Berkeley and it looks like while I get most of my networks from SF, I need to also point toward San Jose, 57 miles away, to get NBC. I've been looking at the Channel Master antennaes, but I can't tell if you have one station in the blue range and the rest in the green or yellow ranges, whether you can just point your directional antennae at the blue and pick everything else up off the rest of the antennae, or whether you'd need two directionals or one that can point in two directions.


Also, on antennaeweb, it has a column that's supposed to read "live now" for digital channels that are being broadcast, yet none of the bay area channels say "live now." Most are blank. I take it for granted that the digital broadcasts are available right? You can't get HDTV from an analog broadcast, can you, and I know that's available OTA. Also, I assume that all the digital channels are UHF, so I need to buy the antennae that can reach 60 miles on UHF to get NBC, don't I?


If I go the HD route, I'll be using Directv plus OTA, so I will need to get all the networks in HD to really make the investment worthwhile (as directv will give me either none, or only CBS HD). I'd appreciate if anyone in Berkeley, Oakland, Albany, etc. can sound off on their OTA experiences.


Thanks for the input.

UPDATE: I was asked to add the info below to my post. I now live in a hilly area in Oakland and can't get OTA reception any more. Too bad for me.


Viewers in the San Francisco Bay Area will find the following sites very useful for finding local digital stations:


Bay Area DTV - HDTV Channel List - http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html


FCC DTV Reception Maps - http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Locate TV stations available at your address and compute expected signal strength and directions -
http://www.tvfool.com/
 
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#12,622 ·
I just looked at KNTV and I'm seeing it about every minute. I e-mailed Doug about the problem. Hopefully it'll get fixed again.

If this recurs sometime in the future you all should report it as soon as it starts so it can get fixed sooner.

Chuck
That was me who reported it both times to the local Google group. Who do we report these sporadic KNTV issues to? I missed that somewhere.
 
#12,624 · (Edited)
KNTV Not Fixed with TSReader output.

Do other stations show all dots? Is KNTV still showing errors when viewing?

I can't check KNTV right now because conditions aren't good enough to receive it.

Chuck
KGO showed all dots.

KNTV showed all dots after the problem was fixed.

I will schedule a capture for 5:30 PM and watch the Nightly News after 8 PM, still waiting for Brian.

Little live TV is watched, the race Sunday was the first in a while.

TSReader scan results added to this post.

SHF
 

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#12,625 ·
That was me who reported it both times to the local Google group. Who do we report these sporadic KNTV issues to? I missed that somewhere.

Some months ago when I was able to receive K15CU on Fremont Peak I noticed they had the call sign entered wrong. I researched FCC filings for that station and saw Doug Lung as a person who signed some of the filings. That was a name I recognized from many articles on DTV over years so I e-mailed him about the K15CU problem. He responded and mentioned that KNTV runs K15CU and the KNTV engineers fixed the call sign problem. When the KNTV problems arose I e-mailed Doug about those and so far he's been responsive. If you want to e-mail him directly, here's the address I pulled from an FCC application:

DOUG.LUNG@NBCUNI.COM

Chuck
 
#12,626 ·
Will visually check at 5PM, as the Bay Area news is to be enjoyed. Trust SFischer's testing. Is KNTV the only station with this issue ?

It's not that I distrust the testing, I don't know what the results mean. Do all reported errors show up as video/audio issues or only certain types of errors? If some errors are invisible to the viewer then who cares?

Looks like there are 4 types of errors reported. Is there an explanation somewhere as to exactly what they mean?

I don't want to bother Doug with some anomalous TS Reader output that doesn't affect the viewer should that be the case. Someone else can do that. ;)

Chuck
 
#12,627 ·
Some months ago when I was able to receive K15CU on Fremont Peak I noticed they had the call sign entered wrong. I researched FCC filings for that station and saw Doug Lung as a person who signed some of the filings. That was a name I recognized from many articles on DTV over years so I e-mailed him about the K15CU problem. He responded and mentioned that KNTV runs K15CU and the KNTV engineers fixed the call sign problem. When the KNTV problems arose I e-mailed Doug about those and so far he's been responsive. If you want to e-mail him directly, here's the address I pulled from an FCC application:

DOUG.LUNG@NBCUNI.COM

Chuck
Thanks. KNTV has been the only station that I seem to have issues with, at that is relatively recent.
 
#12,629 ·
It's not that I distrust the testing, I don't know what the results mean. Do all reported errors show up as video/audio issues or only certain types of errors? If some errors are invisible to the viewer then who cares?

Looks like there are 4 types of errors reported. Is there an explanation somewhere as to exactly what they mean?

I don't want to bother Doug with some anomalous TS Reader output that doesn't affect the viewer should that be the case. Someone else can do that. ;)

Chuck
Continuity errors: 27 is the only thing of interest AFAIK in the TSReader output.

That does not match up with 9 network errors given by HDHomeRun.

I could see the errors while watching the race Sunday and as I was using MyHD the signal strength / signal quality or whatever changes did not match what I was seeing / hearing. (87-93%) This broadcast is brought to you by mumble twice.

I have no idea if the monitored period had video / audio glitches, I do not want to watch what ever was on.

The 5 PM News had nothing I could see with MyHD again, the Nightly news I will watch ~ 9 PM but perhaps not as sleep was so short today.

He does not have the time / interest about our ramblings so don't tell him. They must have better tools and perhaps the paid TSReader but likely have much more expensive tools. After all they must be able to find it, they did it once.

SHF
 
#12,630 ·
Continuity errors: 27 is the only thing of interest AFAIK in the TSReader output.

That does not match up with 9 network errors given by HDHomeRun.

I could see the errors while watching the race Sunday and as I was using MyHD the signal strength / signal quality or whatever changes did not match what I was seeing / hearing. (87-93%) This broadcast is brought to you by mumble twice.

I have no idea if the monitored period had video / audio glitches, I do not want to watch what ever was on.

The 5 PM News had nothing I could see with MyHD again, the Nightly news I will watch ~ 9 PM but perhaps not as sleep was so short today.

He does not have the time / interest about our ramblings so don't tell him. They must have better tools and perhaps the paid TSReader but likely have much more expensive tools. After all they must be able to find it, they did it once.

SHF

Have been watching KNTV 50% of the time now since 5PM, and listening 100% of the time. No audio interruptions, but there have been eight video interruptions (three to six horizontal lines mid-screen) under one second each. Compliments to SHF.
 
#12,631 ·
Have been watching KNTV 50% of the time now since 5PM, and listening 100% of the time. No audio interruptions, but there have been eight video interruptions (three to six horizontal lines mid-screen) under one second each. Compliments to SHF.
I just did another run.

ALL DOTS. So no problem now. My interest is gone until reports from others suggest another KNTV run.

I just said I don't think so, not that I could prove it. The fix report came in about when I expected it. After the weekend.

SHF
 
#12,632 ·
FYI, the One Ministry stations (3 SF, 12 San Rafael, 27 Santa Rosa and 45 Mt. St. Helena) have recently added some new programming, moved some of the channels around and have dropped others.

Their newest station, K02QX, also virtual 45 (RF 2) from Mt. Umunhum southwest of San Jose, is supposed to come on the air this Friday.

Larry
 
#12,635 ·
Thanks for looking for k02qx-d on your Rigol spectrum analyzer. Gosh, I thought I left on the transmitter. The receiver is tuned to channel 4. I'll go turn off k03hy and turn on ktvj today. I was hoping k02qx would then come up by itself, but perhaps that was wishful thinking, and I'll need to go back to the site on Sunday. It is a long drive to get to the site (3 hours). It takes me 3 hours to make it to the city of Redding, although that doesn't include the drive up to South Fork.
 
#12,638 ·
Thanks for looking for k02qx-d on your Rigol spectrum analyzer. Gosh, I thought I left on the transmitter. The receiver is tuned to channel 4. I'll go turn off k03hy and turn on ktvj today. I was hoping k02qx would then come up by itself, but perhaps that was wishful thinking, and I'll need to go back to the site on Sunday. It is a long drive to get to the site (3 hours). It takes me 3 hours to make it to the city of Redding, although that doesn't include the drive up to South Fork.
I think the transmitter is on, but there's no data? My HDHomerun is willing to save the stream, and reports 0 errors, but the stream is not usable. If I've figured out how to run TSReader, all of the packets are MPEG-2 null packets.
 
#12,639 · (Edited)
I think the transmitter is on, but there's no data? My HDHomerun is willing to save the stream, and reports 0 errors, but the stream is not usable. If I've figured out how to run TSReader, all of the packets are MPEG-2 null packets.
If it's on it must be at extremely low power. I don't see a hint of it on the analyzer with the antenna pointed there, just the weak nulled out signal from KFTY. You're in its backyard so the signal should be very strong. What's the signal like?

Extremely low power would be consistent with you seeing it but not Ben or me.

I checked TV Fool for K02QX in San Jose and it is #3 on the list with a NM of +60 dB. 1 watt should be plenty of power for San Jose.

Chuck
 
#12,640 ·
I think the transmitter is on, but there's no data? My HDHomerun is willing to save the stream, and reports 0 errors, but the stream is not usable. If I've figured out how to run TSReader, all of the packets are MPEG-2 null packets.
Your chart for RF 2 at the right shows no "Utilization". So the transmitter is on the air but has nothing to send. Nothing in, nothing out. Actually looks to be good when the MPG2 packets are being received and can be sent.

Keith will be able to check using your chart. Once it gets going maybe a rise to the top would be in order. (And a Link to Larry's page so folks can understand what it is.)

Just like KGO RF 35 when KGO RF 7 from across the bay cannot be received. (No Utilization.)

My antenna pointed at Sutro with a metal roof behind it actually shows some promise, a lot more than I expected. But only with my newest HDHR which is just a tad better.

SHF
 
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