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post #3961 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Red View Post

Hakemon- I know how to stretch, but that's a step back to cover their step back. Stretching destroys the picture and irritates me when I notice the fishbowl affect like when people stand in the center and the camera pans to the right and you watch as their head balloons like in a circus mirror.

mine doesn't do that, mine just does a linear stretch.. if i tell my box i can do 480i, and tell it stretch, it "really" is a 1:1 pixel output (now if stretch is OFF, then it IS stretching to add the bars)
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post #3962 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:13 AM
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Ah, maybe I'm so annoyed by TNT and A&E stretching that that fishbowl image is burned into my cranium. A&E HD, what a waste of a channel.

I'll try that stretch, tho it will only serve to mask my anger with Brighthouse over this update. This may be the last straw for cable.
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post #3963 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:19 AM
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well, to be honest, i prefered the old firmware, because to change screen settings, i only had to hold down the "#" key.. it seems this firmware only made it harder..

I had to tell my cable box these settings (i can't stand 1080i anymore, on a CRT)
720p
1080i
16:9 TV with 4:3 Content Stretched

That's what I set mine to do...

I actually don't mind the addition of A&E.. I like CSI Miami, and wouldn't mind seeing it in HD almost everyday..
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post #3964 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:20 AM
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So, do we no longer have 'pass' resolution? I see that there is a 'dot' before and that can be taken off the selected resolution. So does the mean with no dot that no res is selected and it's being passed?
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post #3965 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakemon View Post

I'm in Oviedo...

The menu looks exactly the same (minus the new screen resolution menu in Settings).. Matter of fact, some channels lost their logo..

It did boot up, no longer saying Pioneer, it said something else I couldn't pronounce...

Why, is all the graphical elements of the menu supposed to be different? (like looking like the DVR models?)

I have a Pace 550 (i think that's the number)


Pace always had a different menu structure than the SA boxes and this update was supposed to change the PACE to be the same as the SA. I am asking if it looks different. Does the bootup say Aptiv?

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post #3966 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:24 AM
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Barry- Menus look the same, same up and down scrolling white and red, little arrows, etc. Just more options, grey side bars and frustration
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post #3967 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Pace always had a different menu structure than the SA boxes and this update was supposed to change the PACE to be the same as the SA. I am asking if it looks different. Does the bootup say Aptiv?

Yes, that's the name I couldn't pronounce, Aptiv...

But the menu doesn't have that "metallic" appearance as the SA boxes... (like the ones I see on their commercials)
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post #3968 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Red View Post

So, do we no longer have 'pass' resolution? I see that there is a 'dot' before and that can be taken off the selected resolution. So does the mean with no dot that no res is selected and it's being passed?

Having all 4 resolutions selected is the same as PASS.

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post #3969 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:41 AM
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i really hope that i should see the metalic interface, it looks much nicer than the plain old interface i have been seeing for the past 7 years... (i started on a SA Explorer 2000 in 2000)
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post #3970 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:46 AM
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So am I the only one peeved at the grey sidebars??!
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post #3971 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:52 AM
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don't feel bad, i got superimposed bars on mine.. (see my screenshot above).. those bars show slightly on the video image, even when stretched...
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post #3972 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:53 AM
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I don't know anyone who likes the gray side bars. It's probably that not that many people have a PACE so no change was detected. I use my Lumagen to add a black mask on top of the gray bars so I no longer see them on my 8300.

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post #3973 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:55 AM
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Hakemon- Weird, black bars shouldn't have color overlapping them. Odd.

Barry- So, the the HD DVR boxes wouldn't have grey bars? Or are you saying some don't have the HD boxes?
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post #3974 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:56 AM
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but I see a change.. I am seeing super imposed bars on my image, as if it had 4% opacity (that alone is enough to annoy me, especially when the picture is dark, like a scary movie, then it looks like it's 20% opacity) right over the picture...

frankly, that's enough for me to bring the box back and get an SA box.. but then again, i've heard the SA boxes have this super imposing bars too (from WAY earlier in this thread)
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post #3975 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 07:59 AM
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I am saying all SA boxes have gray bars. Only the pre-release version of the PACE had black.

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post #3976 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

I am saying all SA boxes have gray bars. Only the pre-release version of the PACE had black.

well mines bars are always black, always, and still, they are black..

but that's not what im talking about.. here, i made a picture showing what i am talking about.. surely you could see what's wrong with that...

that only happened right after the update, and i noticed it immediately too..
LL
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post #3977 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:03 AM
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Well, it wasn't the box that had black bars, Brighthouse made them have black bars, software or signal whatever. I've had black bars for like 3 years now and this morning they were changed over to grey so my LCoS RPTV won't suffer burn in

Which is the better option-Dish or Direct TV? I can't stand the grey bars and I've tried the stretch and it's not distorted but everyone looks fat.
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post #3978 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakemon View Post

but I see a change.. I am seeing super imposed bars on my image, as if it had 4% opacity (that alone is enough to annoy me, especially when the picture is dark, like a scary movie, then it looks like it's 20% opacity) right over the picture...

frankly, that's enough for me to bring the box back and get an SA box.. but then again, i've heard the SA boxes have this super imposing bars too (from WAY earlier in this thread)


This is the first serious technical issue I have read that is worthy of a report. Please give all technical details. I have you as PACE550 with Aptiv boot screen via analog component seeing 4% opacity bars on the top and bottom of the screen covering 4:3 programming. You have a 4:3 native display with the aspect settings in what mode? Do you see the overlay bars during HD programming or both SD and HD channels. What scan rates do you have activated?

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post #3979 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakemon View Post

well mines bars are always black, always, and still, they are black..

but that's not what im talking about.. here, i made a picture showing what i am talking about.. surely you could see what's wrong with that...

that only happened right after the update, and i noticed it immediately too..


I never suggested you were not having a problem. A picture is worth a thousand words.

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post #3980 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

This is the first serious technical issue I have read that is worthy of a report. Please give all technical details. I have you as PACE550 with Aptiv boot screen via analog component seeing 4% opacity bars on the top and bottom of the screen covering 4:3 programming. You have a 4:3 native display with the aspect settings in what mode? Do you see the overlay bars during HD programming or both SD and HD channels. What scan rates do you have activated?

My TVs aspect settings are automatic, they work as follows:
480i = 4:3
480p = 4:3
720p = 16:9
1080i = 16:9

i see the overlaid bars on any channel, and like in my screenshot, even during the channel changing time...

it also does it in any scanrate i chose, but i chose to use 720p for HD channels, and 480i for SD channels (since my TVs scaler is better than the Paces "bob" scaler)

also, sorry if i seemed a little snappy.. im in school right now, so i got pressure from school and bright house.
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post #3981 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Red View Post

Well, it wasn't the box that had black bars, Brighthouse made them have black bars, software or signal whatever. I've had black bars for like 3 years now and this morning they were changed over to grey so my LCoS RPTV won't suffer burn in

Which is the better option-Dish or Direct TV? I can't stand the grey bars and I've tried the stretch and it's not distorted but everyone looks fat.

Take a breath and think about how much SD programming you really watch. Switching to D* would involve a serious loss of HD resolution with all 1080i HD channels reduced to 1280 x 1088i and bit rates as low as 9mbps. No gray bars on SD but huge visible compression artifacts on HD channels and a two year contract.

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post #3982 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:19 AM
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Hakemon- I need to know what the aspect settings are in the PACE. 4:3 display with 16:9 as letterbox?

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post #3983 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Hakemon- I need to know what the aspect settings are in the PACE. 4:3 display with 16:9 as letterbox?

it's a 4:3 display, with the pace boxing thinking it is on a 16:9 TV with 4:3 content stretched..

so that way, when im on a high def channel, my TV will do the work (for my TV to show 16:9, it merely just changes the vertical size of the picture tube), and when on a high def channel, when going to 480i, it will also look perfectly fine..

Actually, as a tech myself, this is what I noticed.. when in 480i and 480p, the Paces graphics no longer go the whole width of the screen.. And this problem seems to be directly related.. If you see my other screenshot here: http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/sides.jpg

you will the the darker bars on the sides (which are the 4% opacity bars, just making dark, darker), are in position to "brace" the "info" bar right in place...

To me, this looks directly related to that.. I would test the DVI output, but my Apple monitor doesn't work on it (i'll see a picture for a second, then it blacks it out due to the lack of HDCP)

And it's not a letter box problem, look at the attached image on the other post, it's bars on the left and right side of the screen...
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post #3984 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:29 AM
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Can you change the aspect control to 4:3 in the PACE to see if the side bar problem goes away?

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post #3985 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Can you change the aspect control to 4:3 in the PACE to see if the side bar problem goes away?

i'll have to try that when i get home...

though, i know it's not my display, and i know it's got to do with the Pace (as im sure you know)..

matter of fact, im sure doing that might work.. that will make the Pace's graphics fill the whole width, right? if so, im sure the bars will go away..

So, assuming it does, which im sure it will, what can the problem be still?
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post #3986 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Take a breath and think about how much SD programming you really watch. Switching to D* would involve a serious loss of HD resolution with all 1080i HD channels reduced to 1280 x 1088i and bit rates as low as 9mbps. No gray bars on SD but huge visible compression artifacts on HD channels and a two year contract.

you know that you just said you'd reduce to a "higher" resolution?
EDIT: Nevermind, didn't catch the lower horizantle pixels, and im sure the vertical pixels is a typo..

but, isn't cable technically satellite? just at the station? with C-band sized dishes?
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post #3987 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Take a breath and think about how much SD programming you really watch. Switching to D* would involve a serious loss of HD resolution with all 1080i HD channels reduced to 1280 x 1088i and bit rates as low as 9mbps. No gray bars on SD but huge visible compression artifacts on HD channels and a two year contract.

*sniff* *sniff* still? Damn it! It's more principal, showing my dissatisfaction than anything. Damn it, when will satellite catch up to cable? Good points, unfortunately. And that's the only reason I still have cable.

Any idea when we will get FIOS?
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post #3988 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 08:53 AM
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The 1088i is not a typo. It has to do with MPEG compliance and being divisible by 8 or something like that. In order to remove 640 pixels from the horizontal resolution D* had to add 8 pixels to the vertical resolution to get the math right. HD Lite is horrible looking stuff and it makes me upset when D* advertises that they have the highest quality picture.

The FIOS system being provided by Verizon in Tampa sounds like the ideal provider. Huge bandwidth and fiber to the curb with a large selection of channels. The reality is when looking at the SD channels they appear heavily compressed and the digital audio is all over the place with a random mixture of DD 2.0 and 5.1. The set top box FIOS is currently deploying does not have a PASS function so you are forced to choose 1080i or 720p as your fixed scan rate. The analog service for the non set top box TV's is limited to about 10 channels. BHN in Tampa has now switched to all digital service for the SD channels as they prepare to compete directly with Verizon.

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post #3989 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 09:00 AM
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wow, that's crazy stuff about the MPEG.. So my box really is getting 1080i though, right?

And what loss to I get when downscaling 1080i to 720p with the Pace 550? I know it has to deinterlace, and that's what I'm wondering about...
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post #3990 of 18857 Old 11-14-2006, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Having all 4 resolutions selected is the same as PASS.

Using the menus I can select all 4 resolutions, however once I hit accept "the yellow A key" it reverts back to 1080i and 480p. Is there any way I can select all 4 resolutions and get the box to accept it.

Also I was on ESPN-HD when I did these settings. The only 720p broadcast I know is coming from ABC-HD right ...
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