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post #4141 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Were your scan rates limited before and now they all work?

Sorry for not being clear. I've always received all scan rates. I was just pointing out to the OP that I wasn't seeing the problem he was seeing.
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post #4142 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 07:57 AM
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The EDID problem is unique to every display. You could have 5 different Sony displays all from the same year hooked to a 8300 and half could have the EDID problem. The EDID file is written for each display model independantly based on its supported scan rates and native resolution.

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post #4143 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

The EDID problem is unique to every display. You could have 5 different Sony displays all from the same year hooked to a 8300 and half could have the EDID problem. The EDID file is written for each display model independantly based on its supported scan rates and native resolution.

Just in case you're keeping track of which TV has which EDID file, I have a Sony KDS-70XBR2. Apparently it accepts 480i, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. It may support others, but those are the only ones I've tried.

EDIT: OK, I haven't actually tried 1080p, but supposedly it's supported.
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post #4144 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 08:35 AM
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There are 2 different items. The scan rates the manufacture intended to support and the scan rates the EDID file actually reports to the source. I really feel for the guys who have a 720p native display and 720p in not one of the supported EDID resolutions. All we need is a manual override EDID ON/OFF switch in the 8300 menus.

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post #4145 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubSteeler View Post

Can you let your TV worry about it?

I can set my TV for a default zoom for a 4:3 and a different zoom for a widescreen. So I set the SA8300HD to allow 480i, 720p and 1080i, and when the TV detects 480i, it automatically resizes to "Wide Zoom", and when it detects 720p or 1080i, it doesn't perform any zooming.

This is nice, because the TV's "wide zoom" looks very good, much more realistic than the short and fat STRETCH that comes out of the box.

I appreciate the suggestion. I set the 8300 HD output to 720p a few months ago at Barry's suggestion when I was get many lockups when switching from ESPN HD and have not changed. I will try your suggestion to see if my Sony will respond as you suggest. The Sony manual does not make this operation very clear. Thanks for the sugestion.
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post #4146 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ClubSteeler View Post

Is it me, or is BHN starting to seriously overcompress their SD channels?

I always used to show my DirecTV loving friends how AWESOME my Standard Def picture was compared to theirs. Some even thought SD channels were HD at times.

Well now, in my opinion, BHN is getting as bad, worse on some channels in terms of over compression.

The pay/premium channels still look great, but others are pretty bad.

WESH SD Ch 2 looks horrible, washed out colors, almost unwatchable. Ch 3 Fox is not much better.

Other digital channels are way over compressed. Fast motion scenes are showing serious bit starving and macroblocking like you see when watching HD channels at lower bit rates. The picture quality is getting poorer. Lots of compression artifacts are present.

Has anyone noticed a PQ degredation over the past few months?

I don't watch many channels, but I notice serious overcompression on VH1C and Noggin and others. You can obviously see a big difference between HBO and these channels.

Others aren't too bad. ESPN2 is still acceptable, and it seems, maybe it's in my head, but ESPN2 looks a little better than ESPN.

I totally agree! SCFI and FX are the two channels I watch outside of the HD realm.. I can't believe how horrible the quality is.. Dark, over compressed.


m
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post #4147 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 04:32 PM
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Well it seems to be neighborhood dependent. Sci-Fi on my cable is very good, FX is just about unwatchable. Could it be frequency dependent and badly tuned amps along the cable line?
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post #4148 of 18940 Old 11-28-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

If you switch to component then you can select all resolutions but if you go back to hdmi then the 8300 will again read the EDID file in the Samsung and shut off the resolutions the Samsung says it does not support. I left a phone message at the Alchemy2 company this morning asking for a status on the EDID/Handshake correction device.

yeh, I figured the switcharoo with the inputs would be too easy a fix and you confirmed it. going back to component is not an option -- HDMI/DVI to a fixed pixel digital display is stunning when everything is working right. I switched to DVI when I got the Pace 550 a while back and that one step alone virtually eliminated the "clay face" effect witnessed over component.
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Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

... I really feel for the guys who have a 720p native display and 720p is not one of the supported EDID resolutions ....

tell me about it! aaahhhhh!!!! thanks for your support and hopefully the s/w gurus will come up with a solution soon .... there has got to be a lot of people out there in the same boat as me, but something tells me the "average" (i.e. non AVSForum member) HD viewer would have no clue they aren't seeing the best possible picture that they could if the EDID issue was a non-issue.
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post #4149 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeO View Post

I totally agree! SCFI and FX are the two channels I watch outside of the HD realm.. I can't believe how horrible the quality is.. Dark, over compressed.


m

Now even the secondary pay channels are getting bad. I watched a boxing match on HBO2 last night. Every time someone threw a punch they got a blocky and pixelated. There were black compression artifacts all around each fighter.

It looked real bad.

My Sony has a lot of option built into the TV. I was able to "Fake" the picture to look acceptable. In the DRC palette, I set clarity to about 75/100 and reality to only about 30/100, then I turned picture sharpness way down to around 30/100, and I turned on the picture noise filters to HIGH.

This was able to HIDE most of the artifacts, and made for a nice soft looking picture, but not a whole lot of detail...


Honestly, the TVs in my house that have analog cable on quality coax with short runs now look better than the digital channels....

So much for the amazing clarity of digital television.....
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post #4150 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 08:55 AM
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i just hope that one of these days, the digital channels be replaced with the HD ones, if you have an HD box.

for example, I hate having to go to 1xxx to watch TNT, and most of the time, I find myself just going to 11...

and my FX: on the digital channel, it's EXTREMELY dark... and even on analog, FX has a flickering green line (also there in digital) sometimes.. it's ANNOYING..
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post #4151 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeO View Post

I totally agree! SCFI and FX are the two channels I watch outside of the HD realm.. I can't believe how horrible the quality is.. Dark, over compressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrygordon View Post

FX is just about unwatchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakemon View Post

and my FX: on the digital channel, it's EXTREMELY dark...


This post from September explains why the signal quality on FX is so poor.
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post #4152 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

If you switch to component then you can select all resolutions but if you go back to hdmi then the 8300 will again read the EDID file in the Samsung and shut off the resolutions the Samsung says it does not support. I left a phone message at the Alchemy2 company this morning asking for a status on the EDID/Handshake correction device.

I emailed Alchemy weeks ago when you asked me to, never got any sort of response. Needless to say that turned me off since they would so obviously ignore customer interest like that.
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post #4153 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:09 PM
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i emailed AE about their closed caption on the AE HD, and the resolution, they NEVER got back to me either..
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post #4154 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:24 PM
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um, is Disney, and the other Nick channel in the 100's analog? I'm getting analog interference lines moving up the screen..

It "looks" like digital though, I see compression...
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post #4155 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Could it be a ground loop?
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post #4156 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:34 PM
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I just talked to Alchemy. Jason you will be getting a reply email today. They sounded like a good company and understood the technology deeply. They are working out the licensing issues with hdmi and should be shipping after CES.

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post #4157 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avNeophyte View Post

Could it be a ground loop?

on my Component cable? don't know.. i would imagine the ground on one of those cables would be working (since they all begin and meet at the same place)

im using that extremely long Component cable BHN gave me..

I have shorter ones, but in high res, it gets blurry horizontally..
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post #4158 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:44 PM
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Wouldn't a ground loop be on all the channels?

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post #4159 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Wouldn't a ground loop be on all the channels?

Yeah, I would think so.
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post #4160 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Wouldn't a ground loop be on all the channels?

well the interference is quite small.. VERY hard to see, but the thought of it being there annoys the crap out of me..

I pushed the TV guide up, and it is infact there, so it's on the component cable end of things.. only thing, which one is it? the luma, Pr, or Pb?
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post #4161 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 01:38 PM
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Check the obvious stuff first. Is the component cable laying next to a power cord? If you move the component cable around does the hum bar change? Make sure the cable box and the display are plugged into the same circuit. If none of that works and the component cable is tested as good then you may have a ground potential difference between the coax and the AC ground.

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post #4162 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

I just talked to Alchemy. Jason you will be getting a reply email today. They sounded like a good company and understood the technology deeply. They are working out the licensing issues with hdmi and should be shipping after CES.


Thanks Barry, Peter did reply to my email today; however he really didn't provide any details of what his device can and can't do. Basically he said the device isn't ready for primetime until maybe next year.
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post #4163 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 02:25 PM
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Alchemy told me the R&D is done and they are just waiting for the hdmi licensing negotiations. The way the product description reads the device will provide the HDCP source with a stable handshake and a EDID file which indicates all possible resolutions supported. They also say the hdmi signal will be re-timed to help with long cable runs.

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post #4164 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

Check the obvious stuff first. Is the component cable laying next to a power cord? If you move the component cable around does the hum bar change? Make sure the cable box and the display are plugged into the same circuit. If none of that works and the component cable is tested as good then you may have a ground potential difference between the coax and the AC ground.

i just checked, it's near the AC cord to the TV, and moving the AC cord of the TV didn't help a bit..

which ground are we talking about? these devices aren't 3-pronged..
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post #4165 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 02:51 PM
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The coax is supposed to be grounded outside at your utility and your AV components are grounded at your power strip. None of the AV devices are three pronged?

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post #4166 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

The coax is supposed to be grounded outside at your utility and your AV components are grounded at your power strip. None of the AV devices are three pronged?

yea, THAT is grounded, the coax, i can see the hardened wire outside..

my TV is two pronged, and my Pace 550 is two pronged.. my stereo system is even two pronged..
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post #4167 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 03:14 PM
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The way I understand two prong is the AV component chassis is bonded to the neutral so you could still have a hum bar. Make sure the ground is good for the coax outside. Then hook up the DVD player with the same component cables to see if the hum bar is gone.

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post #4168 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

The way I understand two prong is the AV component chassis is bonded to the neutral so you could still have a hum bar. Make sure the ground is good for the coax outside. Then hook up the DVD player with the same component cables to see if the hum bar is gone.

hooked up my DVD player, the lines were still there.. tried my xbox (which has monster cables built into it), and it had the lines too...

this is very interesting:

Component 1 Input on TV: A lot of lines
Component 2 Input on TV: Not so much lines..
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post #4169 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 03:29 PM
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unplug the coax while your watching the lines on the DVD player and see if anything changes.

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post #4170 of 18940 Old 11-29-2006, 03:32 PM
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the coax isn't plugged into the TV, that's going into the Pace..

my TVs coax plug isn't used (as it's NTSC only)

I think it's only interfering with the Luma inputs, because it doe it even on a white screen..
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