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Old 07-16-2005, 11:41 AM
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In need of a little assistance. I have the Dish 942 receiver. I have the Silver Sensor hooked up and get all of the local digital channels with no problems (signal strengths higher than 85) except for 11.1. I know that this is a VHF station, but I have heard other reports of people getting it with a "UHF only" antenna. I tried hooking up an amplifier from radio shack, but it actually made things worse. It lowered all of the signal strengths and knocked out CBS completely. However, the only thing it did was make 11.1 come in clear. Anybody have any ideas about what I could do to fix the problem?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:47 AM
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2-1 (ABC) & 5-1 (FOX) are always broadcast 16:9 720p.
11-1 (NBC), 17-1 (TBS), 30-1 (PBA), 36-1 (WB), 43-1 (UPN), 46-1 (CBS) are always broadcast 16:9 1080i.
Anything else right now is always broadcast 4:3 480i, such as 5-2, the SD version of the HD 5-1 broadcast.

Now, the program you are watching may or may not have been recorded using HD cameras. Is 4:3 vs. 16:9 a valid decision maker for originally SD vs originally HD material? I don't know about that. I'm sure there's plenty of movies and shows shown 16:9 that are just upsampled DVDs or something to make the 720p or 1080i broadcast signal.

For your purpose, I would think FOX would be the easy thing to look at. 5-1 is what you get with OTA antenna. 5-2 is what you would have gotten with locals over Dish (I would bet FOX local over Dish would look more like 5-2 than 5-0).

This then moves on to the other side of the equation, what your tuner box does. My LG LST-4200A is very good for determining what I am getting. There's a native mode, and I can simply look at which format light lights up. I also have both component and s-video connections. And what exactly I see changes depending on the output format setting I have selected.

And in your case, your TV may be further manipulating things. I use a Infocus 4805 projector, which can tell me onscreen the incoming signal format, and offers me a variety of self-selectable aspect handling options.

So 5-1 is always going to be 16:9, but if you have your tuner set to native or 720p output and you're watching the s-video, you might be getting a 4:3 480i picture. You tuner or your TV could be zooming in the picture if the program material is only 4:3 (so bars on the side, or in the case of my 27" TV, "bars" all around).
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:52 AM
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LakeBum,
A lot of people using UHF to get NBC are using the ChannelMaster 4228, which, while marketed as a UHF antenna, apparently picks up upper VHF very well as well. That same characteristic may or may not apply to the Silver Sensor, although your preamp test would seem to show you are getting some level of upper VHF reception.

As for a better preamp solution to work with your current antenna, I don't really have any ideas other than trial and error. Would a VHF only preamp work better at not messing with the UHF band?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:57 AM
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Where would I find a VHF only preamp?
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Old 07-17-2005, 12:41 PM
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I have no idea. I don't know much about preamps. But you could check www.solidsignal.com and see what they have in the preamp section. I also don't know if a VHF only preamp would do anything for you. But it's what I would guess to try next without input from someone else about something better to do.
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Old 07-17-2005, 06:29 PM
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Thanks for the help
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakebum431 View Post

In need of a little assistance. I have the Dish 942 receiver. I have the Silver Sensor hooked up and get all of the local digital channels with no problems (signal strengths higher than 85) except for 11.1. I know that this is a VHF station, but I have heard other reports of people getting it with a "UHF only" antenna. I tried hooking up an amplifier from radio shack, but it actually made things worse. It lowered all of the signal strengths and knocked out CBS completely. However, the only thing it did was make 11.1 come in clear. Anybody have any ideas about what I could do to fix the problem?

Dow Electronics in Duluth, GA (770) 232-5300 stocks an antenna that is specifically made to pick-up channel 11.1. It is an outdoor type antenna but would work well in an attic if you are not too far from the transmitting tower. It is much smaller and cheaper than a typical full range VHF antenna. You would likely need a combiner to combine the UHF signal from your silver sensor and the VHF signal from the special antenna.

If you remember the 70's...you weren't really there!
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Old 07-21-2005, 12:44 PM
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Yeah, that is the problem, I'm trying to avoid running a line from the attic to the living room. I don't know how to do it and wouldn't have a clue how much it would cost. Thanks though
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:49 PM
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Feel free to yell at me. This is quite the long thread and I did begin to look it over for my answer but.....I've given up.

For grins I put in for Direct TV waivers for NY HD. While flipping through today I noticed I have FOX NY HD now. Does anybody know what luck I'm likely to have or not have with the others?

I did contact someone regarding antenna hookup but apparently I'm in a very very bad local. I may eventually have to settle for the D* compressed ATL HD (yuck). However, that won't likely happen till later in the year and there we be plenty of HD sports on between now and then.
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAW View Post

Feel free to yell at me. This is quite the long thread and I did begin to look it over for my answer but.....I've given up.

For grins I put in for Direct TV waivers for NY HD. While flipping through today I noticed I have FOX NY HD now. Does anybody know what luck I'm likely to have or not have with the others? Since Fox Atlanta is O&O you had no problems getting Fox NY HD. The other Atl channels (ABC, NBC, CBS) are not O&O, so you won't be able to get the Directv HD feeds like you did with channel 88 for Fox. Unless you have incriminating pictures of local station executives for ABC, NBC and CBS Atlanta you won't get any waivers from them.

I did contact someone regarding antenna hookup but apparently I'm in a very very bad local. I may eventually have to settle for the D* compressed ATL HD (yuck). However, that won't likely happen till later in the year and there we be plenty of HD sports on between now and then.

Have you tried the CM4228 in the attic or outside? With a rotor and/or pre-amp you may be able to get some kind of signal. Did you go to antennaweb.org and plug in your address?
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:03 PM
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Thanks for the response.

I didn't try a CM 4228 but a forum member here (professional installer) punched my addy into antennaweb and basically said: Good Luck. ;-(
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAW View Post

Thanks for the response.

I didn't try a CM 4228 but a forum member here (professional installer) punched my addy into antennaweb and basically said: Good Luck. ;-(

How far away from the broadcast towers are you? Are you behind any large hills or mountains? Why do you think you are in a bad area? What kind of results are your neighbors getting? Sometimes antennaweb.org gives an unfavorable prediction but then the real results are acceptable. Mine is a case in point. Antennaweb.org does take into account the topography but I think they are conservative with their predictions. The CM 4228 outperforms most peoples expectations.

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Old 07-23-2005, 09:14 AM
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I just wanted to update my situation. I decided to try a couple of different indoor antennas. I went to Radio Shack and picked up the 15-1880 and it works great. I now get over an 80 signal strength on every channel with no signal breakup at all (I am in Roswell - exit 7b off 400). Hopefully this will help someone else in the area. Thanks for all of the previous suggestions.
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Old 07-25-2005, 06:28 AM
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Thanks for the info Porterhaus.

If I'm being totally honest with myself I guess I'm really just trying to avoid buying an extention ladder and drilling into my house.

I've put up a rooftop antenna before but I lived by realitives who had a ladder and the house was vinal siding so I drilled from the inside hookup connector right up to the siding then popped the cable down to the ground under the siding. Was also able to tuck the wire from the chimney all the way down. Point being that even though I'm an amature, it was basically seamless.

Here with this Hardy (??) plank I don't really know how I'd go about the whole deal. I and my wife are a little nervous at the prospect of me blasting through our walls.
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Old 07-25-2005, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAW View Post

Thanks for the info Porterhaus.

If I'm being totally honest with myself I guess I'm really just trying to avoid buying an extention ladder and drilling into my house.

I've put up a rooftop antenna before but I lived by realitives who had a ladder and the house was vinal siding so I drilled from the inside hookup connector right up to the siding then popped the cable down to the ground under the siding. Was also able to tuck the wire from the chimney all the way down. Point being that even though I'm an amature, it was basically seamless.

Here with this Hardy (??) plank I don't really know how I'd go about the whole deal. I and my wife are a little nervous at the prospect of me blasting through our walls.

I can empathize with you EAW about the installation. However, I got a taste of what the Braves games look like in HD (when Charter Cable was working...which was rarely). So, when I switched to D* I just had to try OTA to see what I could receive. I put a CM4228 with a pre-amp in the attic. It works much better than I thought it would. And, I didn't have to get on the roof. Though I still have the problem of routing the cable inside the house. I just thought I would share my experience with you. Good luck.

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Old 07-25-2005, 10:09 AM
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Just a quick recap/question. We just bought a CM 4228 WITHOUT AN AMP.

Just for kicks we stuck it out an upstairs window to see what we could get last night. Got almost all the stations but very fuzzy of course.

I wanted to throw this question out to those of you in Cumming and Dawsonville with the 4228: Where did you mount your antenna (i.e., roof or attic) and do you have an amp?

Also, let me make sure I'm understanding this antenna thing right...you switch your t.v. (we have a Sony HDTV) over to "ANT" and then you can flip through the stations, right? And, if they are broadcasting in HDTV, they should come over in HDTV, correct? (I'm asking this because I've noticed throughout this board, that a lot of you use decimals in your station numbers....) Do the decimal numbers come from CATV or an amp?
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:24 AM
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dcanoli1,

Bring up the menu on your Sony TV, Select Digital Channel Scan on the channel menu page. It will take a long time, but should find the digital stations your new antenna is pulling in. The digital stations don't always broadcast in HD, most of the daytime programming is good old 4:3 programming sent out centered within a HD signal.

Many prime time programs are in HD now, enjoy.
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:51 AM
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LeRoy,

Thanks for replying. (My husband always looks for your replies! He says, "That guy knows what he's talking about. I can tell!" )

Well, here's my question...when I did an auto scan on the ANT side, it didn't pull in any digital channels....and only about seven ANALOG channels. I had to go in, manually, and put the rest of them in (i.e., 2, 36, etc.).

When you say "digital," what are telling me? Unscrambled, correct? I thought this CM would only pick up the local channels...so, am I understanding this right--digital VERSUS HDTV??

I think I'm misunderstanding you a tad...
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Old 07-25-2005, 12:33 PM
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Ok,

There is an VHF/UHF input and a Cable input on the back of your set. Make sure your antenna is attached to the VHF/UHF input. On my Sony it is the inner connector.

Switch to one of the analog channels that comes in, I assume 11 will look ok with your 4228 antenna.

Bring up the TV menu and then hit down three times. You will see a menu that includes a line called "Digital Channels" Highlight "Digital Channels" then select "Add". A status box will display for about the next hour while it searchs for digital stations from the antenna.

When the digital channel scan completes, you should see channels like 2.1 and 5.1 and 11.1 etc.

Just a couple of notes about our Atlanta channels. 2.2 will show up in your list but will be blank. I asked the WSB engineer about this and he said they were shooting blanks on purpose, reserving the channel for future programming.

Channel 11.2 is a handy local radar with sound from the main 11.1 channel.

Back when the NCAA basketball tournament was on, CBS showed more than one game at a time on channels 46.1, 46.2 and 46.3. But they have cut back to just putting out 46.1 at this time. To get the extra channels, you would need to watch this forum for when extra channels go live and do Digital Channel Add again.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:02 PM
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Okay, got it! Thanks! I had gone through the menu and did the AutoProgram selection instead....

As soon as we get the antenna up again, I'll autoprogram the digital stations into the t.v.!

Thanks for the quick responses and all your help!
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:29 PM
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I have my 4228 connected thru my DIRECTV receiver and its on my roof. I'm on a hill so its pretty high up, I need an extension ladder to get up on the roof whenever the wind moves the antenna. I got the amp because I'm so far out which I'm glad I did because the stations come in really clear. I have the signal split to go to my living room and my theater. Its quite a picture on a 110" screen.

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Old 07-26-2005, 05:19 AM
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dcanoli1

When you put your antenna up again, make sure you are getting the best picture possible on the analog stations, then do the digital scan. You two will probably end up doing the 'antenna dance' with one of your watching the TV while the other moves the antenna up, down, left, right, in, out and rotationally for the best picture on analog stations 11 through 46. Analog channels 2, 5 and 8 will probably not do too well with your 4228 antenna, but the digital versions 2.1, and 5.1 should be just fine.

You will be able to tell if you need to get an amplifier by watching your TV on digital stations. If the audio breaks up, or the video has blocks of color that don't belong, the signal is too weak to decode properly. An amplifier will probably help. But the antenna aim is the most important factor in keeping a strong signal.

You are far enough out in Cumming so that all of the major Atlanta stations will be located in the same general direction. Small movements of the antenna may improve weaker stations. Enter your address at antennaweb.org to get compass headings for the Atlanta stations. The average of those headings should be a good angle to start with.
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:11 AM
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We moved into our new place about a week ago and I left the old antenna in the attic of the old house.
My CM4228 arrived from Solid Signal Monday afternoon and I made a run to Lowes and La Shaq Radiew for parts (Lowes didn't have any coax with a ground lead or any suitable mounts but the DID have the CM coated mast). Got up on the roof last night, mounted the antenna, eyeballed the direction, sunk the ground rod (by hand!?!), and ran the cable into my new HT room (formarly a kids play room for the previous owners).
All the local digital channels came in on the first try, even PBA30 and WB which we'd had problems with at the other house. Hell, I was skeered to go up and tighten the bolts on the antenna!
I DID tighten the bolts though and ended-up cooling off on the couch (anybody notice how it was like a bigillion degrees outside yesterday?) watching some show about Lemurs on 30-1 with John Klese (sp?) as the presenter... There WERE a few drop-outs but the show was watchable.

I've never trusted the OTA signal meter on my Samsung 360 D* receiver since it's always so sketchy looking (45-65-0-45% and back again in 30 seconds). Is there any easy way to check digital broadcast signal levels without spending a house payment for a gizmo? If I'm really between 45-65% I'll buy an amplifier but I want to check it out first.
Anyway, it looks like my wife can watch the upcoming football season on the big TV in HD now so all is well and good with the world again.

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Old 07-27-2005, 06:16 AM
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For those interested in such things, I found a page with lots of information about the local broadcasters and a handy link to the FCC for each. I was able to find out, for instance, that PBA's DT station broadcasts MUCH less power than WSB which would account for the lower performance I see with that station.
This is the page for WSB but there are links for each of the locals and a link on each of THOSE pages for their FCC info:
http://www.answers.com/wsb%20tV?ab=t19

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAW View Post

Feel free to yell at me. This is quite the long thread and I did begin to look it over for my answer but.....I've given up.

For grins I put in for Direct TV waivers for NY HD. While flipping through today I noticed I have FOX NY HD now. Does anybody know what luck I'm likely to have or not have with the others?

I did contact someone regarding antenna hookup but apparently I'm in a very very bad local. I may eventually have to settle for the D* compressed ATL HD (yuck). However, that won't likely happen till later in the year and there we be plenty of HD sports on between now and then.

Fox is the only one you're going to get in Atlanta as it is the only O&O channel here.
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:57 PM
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ACTUALLY....I get both FOX and CBS HD west coast. It was great watching football last season.

don't bend over in the garden granny....them taters got eyes
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Old 07-28-2005, 08:53 PM
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You guys talking about satalite?

"If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."- Dr. Seuss
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Old 07-29-2005, 05:18 PM
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Directv

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Old 08-04-2005, 08:47 AM
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I've seen a number of folks on this thread report success picking up KXIA-DT with the Channel Master 4228. I have one myself out here in Colorado, and it's a great antenna.

Has anyone tried the CM4221, which is a little brother to the CM4228? I'm looking to recommend something for my sister in Marietta, and the CM4221 (which is only half as large) would be much more convenient and easier for her to mount. She's about 20 miles from the towers according to Antennaweb, and all the major stations are within 10 degrees orientation.

Last year on a visit I played around with a Silver Sensor, which managed to bring in everything EXCEPT channel 10. So I was just wondering if the CM4221 was likely to have good enough high-VHF performance for KXIA, as the CM4228 apparently does.

My cable provider is Netflix
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Old 08-04-2005, 10:20 AM
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I'm using the CM4221 (half the size and half the price!) in the attic of my 2 story house with 50 feet of RG6 and no amp with great success. I'm about 23 miles from the towers here in Kennesaw. I get every channel solid and only have problems with 11 NBC and 30 PBS when it rains. I believe if the antenna were mounted outside I wouldn't have any problems.

I picked the antenna up at the ACE Hardware in Douglasville - the only place I could find it locally.

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