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post #181 of 7950 Old 04-27-2004, 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by ichen
Please send us some feedback on your HDtivo when you get to play with it more.. I think I want to swap out my upstairs Hughes E86 for it so I can record some stuff..

Comments on:
Local OTA reception and picture
DirecTV picture
Ease of use
Heating issues?
Storage capacity
Wiring issues

I know some of that is in the Hardware forum, but I'd like to hear what you think about the locals also

Overall I'm very happy with it. It's not perfect, but it's close. Local OTA reception is probably slightly better than my integrated tuner. The picture is the same. DirecTV HD is quite good. Not quite were COX was, but close. It's easy to use, it works just like an SD TiVo. Heat hasn't been a problem, it runs a little hotter than my old S1 TiVo, but not much. Storage is great...250 gigs. Nothing strange about the wiring either. Check out this forum for much more info:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...?s=&forumid=36


Disclaimer: It hope this slightly OT post didn't upset anyone.......
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post #182 of 7950 Old 04-27-2004, 05:22 PM
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So, are there any stations out there that have any near future plans of broadcasting their Morning/Noon/Evening local news shows in High Def? That would be great.
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post #183 of 7950 Old 04-27-2004, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by jkhome
So, are there any stations out there that have any near future plans of broadcasting their Morning/Noon/Evening local news shows in High Def? That would be great.

Working on it. There is a lot of high priced equipment that has to be replaced in order to get there. That happens over time...as the older analog or SD equipment needs to be replaced. For WVEC, I'm aiming for late 2007 but a lot can change between now and then.

Peter Dennant
XBE Group
[former Director of Engineering for WVEC-TV/DT]
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post #184 of 7950 Old 04-27-2004, 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by pdennant
Working on it. There is a lot of high priced equipment that has to be replaced in order to get there. That happens over time...as the older analog or SD equipment needs to be replaced. For WVEC, I'm aiming for late 2007 but a lot can change between now and then.

So are there any real numbers out there that reflect how many local viewers are actually receiving (and viewing) the digital broadcasts, either by OTA or whatever? I would think that would effect the stations willingness to invest.
Of the people I talk to on a daily basis, I feel we are still a tiny minority.
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post #185 of 7950 Old 04-27-2004, 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by jkhome
So are there any real numbers out there that reflect how many local viewers are actually receiving (and viewing) the digital broadcasts, either by OTA or whatever? I would think that would effect the stations willingness to invest.
Of the people I talk to on a daily basis, I feel we are still a tiny minority.

While people who own HD ready sets are no longer a "tiny" minority, you are still a minority. The numbers on the penetration of HD ready sets is about 5% of the total population. I haven't seen any breakdown as to how many have OTA receivers, cable receivers, satellite receivers or no type of external receiver at all. In the world of television, Neilsen measurements are what counts. The good news is that the number of metered homes Neilsen monitors has risen from two (2) at this time last year. The bad news is that this years number is still less than ten (10) homes.

In looking at the CEA curves, that organization shows things get going (the acceptance/adoption curve goes more vertical than horizontal) in the 2007/2008 time period.

Peter Dennant
XBE Group
[former Director of Engineering for WVEC-TV/DT]
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post #186 of 7950 Old 04-28-2004, 04:25 AM
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Thanks for the response, Peter

Yes, I know people who have bought HDTVs, and upgraded from cable to a dish system, but not a HD/OTA system. I guess when the analog switch gets turned off, that acceptance curve will go vertical big time.

I picked up my second HDTV yesterday (Zenith 27"), not as a replacement, but as a second unit for the bedroom. When I asked my salesman if he had seen the HD hockey game the night before, no, he doesn't have HD yet. I guess all he knows is that "loop" they play 24/7.

What would be neat is to see your 24/7 news broadcast on HD, in the store, as a demo.
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post #187 of 7950 Old 04-28-2004, 05:15 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Digitude
Ah...quadrature amplitude modulation maybe??

Yes- thanks, Les and Digitude. I threw in the "U" because we *used* to refer to Quadrature as QUAD and now it got AM added to it so it was easier to just change the "D".......and - well, I just need to get up-to-date.... google ClearQAM and you got it.....

Jh

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post #188 of 7950 Old 04-28-2004, 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by jheimerl
google ClearQAM and you got it.....

Jh

John...yeah we stumped the band on that one. I'd never done a Google query and come up empty! Oddly enough, Google didn't even offer an alternative spelling, I suppose because its an acronym.
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post #189 of 7950 Old 04-28-2004, 09:42 AM
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Well Voom came out yesterday and upgraded me to a Channelmaster 4228. After the installation my power and quality has gone up and is now more stable than with the Radio Shack 2016. However, I noticed ABC is lower than NBC and CBS, but I had experience no drop outs and picture freezes during the wind storm yesterday evening.

I want to thank Peter D of ABC for all his help too.
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post #190 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 06:09 AM
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The past two nights I had a number of dropouts on 3 and 10. Has anyone else had this experience?
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post #191 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 06:23 AM
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robertawillisjr:

I haven't had any problems since I upgraded my antenna, channelmaster 4228 on Monday. What kind of OTA antenna are you using?
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post #192 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 07:47 AM
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ChannelMaster 4228.

Someone posted this on another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=396375
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post #193 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 10:53 AM
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Same here I have had a number of dropouts on 3 and 10 in Poquoson.
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post #194 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 01:23 PM
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Check out vartv.com, and see what WSKY is doing about digital. (sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven't been watching)

I personally think this is a very bad move. If WSKY wants to go digital, they should have tried to get channel 11. It easily fits in Norfolk; the original plan from 1996 called for WAVY-DT to be on 11 IIRC. Then, at least, the UHF antennas might have a chance at receiving the station.

Then again, they could go ahead and get the CP for it and then file a DR to move to 11. Isn't that what WGNT-DT did to move from 19 to 50?

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #195 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Les
I'm watching the 6:00pm news right now and I'm noticing some nice new on screen graphics. Nice new transparent WAVY bug also.
I like the change. The new looks of the graphics look like they are at a higher resolution than the previous scheme. Looks very sharp and clear. Great job.

PS I have not seen any dropout issues on WAVY. Sony HD200.


Still waiting for my HD Tivo. Looks like another 3 weeks for me.
Glad Todd got his. I know you love it.
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post #196 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 03:57 PM
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Quote:


I personally think this is a very bad move. If WSKY wants to go digital, they should have tried to get channel 11. It easily fits in Norfolk; the original plan from 1996 called for WAVY-DT to be on 11 IIRC. Then, at least, the UHF antennas might have a chance at receiving the station.


I know this sound like what WSKY should have done, but there is a lot about WSKY getting on the air that most people don't know. WSKY was the last VHF-Low analog CP issued in the country. CP was issued as a on-channel conversation for DTV, beleive me, Channel 4 is not there first choice to be on. The channel 11 for DTV only works if the digital is co-located with the analog which would have worked in WAVY's case. For WSKY to be on 11 there transmitter would have to be within 5km of WAVY's tower. which would be too far from city of license, Manteo, NC...Case in point, WNCT in Greenville, NC... NTSC 9, DTV 10..they use same antenna. WGNT moved from Channel 19 to 50 because of WUND-DT on 20, but I will let George speak on that if he wishes to. There are many mileage critinas that must be followed. When WTKR-DT was moved from its NTSC tower to the ATC tower, it barely worked because we were getting too far away from WVEC-DT (41)....DTV channels in this market are tough, when I came to work at WTKR in 1999, one of my first jobs was to find a DTV channel. WTKR-DT was suppose to be on 58 (outside the core) getting it on 40 (inside the core) was not easy to do, beleive me...by the way if channel 21 gets on the air in Norfolk it will be a on-channel NTSC to DTV conversation also.

Ted Hand, CPBE. 8VSB, DRB, AMD
I was there on July 23, 1996...First DTV broadcast in the US..WRAL-HD

Amateur Radio - W9SOC

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post #197 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 05:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Theo1080
I know this sound like what WSKY should have done, but there is a lot about WSKY getting on the air that most people don't know. WSKY was the last VHF-Low analog CP issued in the country. CP was issued as a on-channel conversation for DTV, believe me, Channel 4 is not there first choice to be on. The channel 11 for DTV only works if the digital is co-located with the analog which would have worked in WAVY's case. For WSKY to be on 11 there transmitter would have to be within 5km of WAVY's tower. which would be too far from city of license, Manteo, NC...Case in point, WNCT in Greenville, NC... NTSC 9, DTV 10..they use same antenna. WGNT moved from Channel 19 to 50 because of WUND-DT on 20, but I will let George speak on that if he wishes to. There are many mileage critinas that must be followed. When WTKR-DT was moved from its NTSC tower to the ATC tower, it barely worked because we were getting too far away from WVEC-DT (41)....DTV channels in this market are tough, when I came to work at WTKR in 1999, one of my first jobs was to find a DTV channel. WTKR-DT was suppose to be on 58 (outside the core) getting it on 40 (inside the core) was not easy to do, believe me...by the way if channel 21 gets on the air in Norfolk it will be a on-channel NTSC to DTV conversation also.

-------------------------------
Ted is correct, we moved from 19 to 50 so that we would be able to operate with adequate power to cover the market. On channel 19 we would have been at very low power and had problems with 20.

From what I know and have heard, a low band VHF station is the last place a DTV operator would want to be. Too much noise and too many ghosts. Just try and get a clean OTA analog signal on a channel 2, 3, or 4 in this market. It takes a lot of work and some luck.

The "repacking" of the television spectrum after the transition to digital is a very very complex task. loaded with engineering and competitive issues. The one organization that I know of that is really working on it is the MSTV.

I was able to attend an Engineering meeting at NAB where one of the MSTV members outlined the process they hope the FCC will adopt to allocate the permanent DTV channels. It is quite complex, but they have a good and fair plan. When it is made public you will probably be able to find it on their web site. http://www.mstv.org/index.html

On a different topic, I would love to see LIN (WAVY) take all their LPTV channels in this market digital. They could do some cool things with them!

George Randell
Chief Engineer
WGNT/WGNT-DT UPN
Viacom in Norfolk
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post #198 of 7950 Old 04-29-2004, 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by vurbano
10 was wacky for me last night.

Yes, we had some sort of event last night... Not sure what it was, but it cleared up by this morning. We had some major breakup this evening just after 5PM, but an equipment reset seemed to cure it.


Quote:


Originally posted by Trip in VA
If WSKY wants to go digital, they should have tried to get channel 11. It easily fits in Norfolk; the original plan from 1996 called for WAVY-DT to be on 11 IIRC.

As Ted said, it isn't as simple as just finding a channel that isn't being used by a primary channel in the Norfolk market. You also have to take into account the channels being used in surrounding broadcast markets and the interactions that occur where our signals overlap with those from Richmond, Raleigh, Greenville, etc. There are also intermodulation products that have to be considered... For instance, a channel 11 could combine with some other existing channel and sum together electronically in such a way that another licensed station in Norfolk might experience destructive interference.


Quote:


Originally posted by obxdiver
Hey Les
I'm watching the 6:00pm news right now and I'm noticing some nice new on screen graphics. Nice new transparent WAVY bug also.
I like the change. The new looks of the graphics look like they are at a higher resolution than the previous scheme. Looks very sharp and clear. Great job.

Thanks! Glad you like it. As far as the resolution, we did put a new character generator graphics machine on the air about a week ago with our old graphics package, so that probably explains the crispness.


Quote:


Originally posted by George Randell
On a different topic, I would love to see LIN (WAVY) take all their LPTV channels in this market digital. They could do some cool things with them!

Whoaa there! Sounds like a lot of work!!!
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post #199 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Thanks! Glad you like it. As far as the resolution, we did put a new character generator graphics machine on the air about a week ago with our old graphics package, so that probably explains the crispness.

I noticed this morning during the 5:00am newscast that the old WAVY non-transparent bug was back in the lower right corner of the screen.
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post #200 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 03:18 AM
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Since WSKY is going to shut off analog and become the area's first all-digital station, I wonder how that will affect their carriage on the various cable systems in the area. Our cable system down here is Charter, and I don't believe they even know how to spell HDTV.

I know that they already send a digital signal to DirecTV, so that shouldn't be affected.

"Your vacuum cleaner ate my pants. There was nothing I could do."
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post #201 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 03:52 AM
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Gary,

I doubt we'll see much HDTV from SKY right away. All it takes is an ATSC off-air processor versus an NTSC one. Should be transparent to the cable/dbs viewer.

Brian
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post #202 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 05:16 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by obxdiver
I noticed this morning during the 5:00am newscast that the old WAVY non-transparent bug was back in the lower right corner of the screen.

The early morning weather bug with the WAVY logo actually comes off of a different device. That will eventually get redesigned too and moved to a higher-rez box, but the logistical challenge with that task is a huge one.
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post #203 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 05:18 AM
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WSKY isn't announcing what they are really up to... Just preparing for the analog to digital transition vs becoming digital-only...

Keep reading VARTV...

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post #204 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 05:38 AM
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Robert,

I read your site everyday! Having a radio background, and still having many friends in the business, it's great to keep up with the happenings in the area.

My question about WSKY is this: If they are currently broadcasting NTSC on channel 4, and plan on broadcasting ATSC on channel 4, then aren't they in effect saying that they will become digital-only?

My question about cable carriage has to do with the change from NTSC to ATSC. I doubt many cable companies down here in NC have the ability to capture ATSC, decode, convert to NTSC and redistribute. I could be wrong, but WSKY could be dropped (albeit temporarily) from many cable systems.

I know it's only a CP application... none of this will happen anytime soon, probably years.

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post #205 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 05:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by garydean
Robert,

I read your site everyday! Having a radio background, and still having many friends in the business, it's great to keep up with the happenings in the area.

My question about WSKY is this: If they are currently broadcasting NTSC on channel 4, and plan on broadcasting ATSC on channel 4, then aren't they in effect saying that they will become digital-only?

My question about cable carriage has to do with the change from NTSC to ATSC. I doubt many cable companies down here in NC have the ability to capture ATSC, decode, convert to NTSC and redistribute. I could be wrong, but WSKY could be dropped (albeit temporarily) from many cable systems.

I know it's only a CP application... none of this will happen anytime soon, probably years.

Gary,

Thanks for the comment...
I believe you answered your own question...

If they are currently broadcasting NTSC on channel 4, and plan on broadcasting ATSC on channel 4, then aren't they in effect saying that they will become digital-only?

Yes... BUT, when? 2005, 2006, 2007?? If granted today, I believe WSKY would have three years to build it out (unless CPs for television stations are less than radio stations)

I know it's only a CP application... none of this will happen anytime soon, probably years.

I couldn't say it better than that...

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post #206 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 05:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by garydean
My question about cable carriage has to do with the change from NTSC to ATSC. I doubt many cable companies down here in NC have the ability to capture ATSC, decode, convert to NTSC and redistribute. I could be wrong, but WSKY could be dropped (albeit temporarily) from many cable systems.

It is a fairly easy conversion: The cable company buys an ATSC/DTV receiver with analog outputs and swaps it for the NTSC receiver. The change is transparent to the cable subscriber.

The head end for Charter is in Suffolk. They microwave the locals down to the head ends in the Outer Banks. Charter and other cable companies will be compelled to make the change due to the Must Carry provisions of the FCC.

Professionally, I wonder why they would want to go digital on channel 4. The low band VHF frequencies are not well suited for the DTV signal. Then, with a move to Moyock, there is the issue of a digital station one channel up from an analog (WTKR). That could be messy if it isn't done right.

Peter Dennant
XBE Group
[former Director of Engineering for WVEC-TV/DT]
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post #207 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 06:04 AM
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Maybe if Glenn can talk the major area MSOs, especially COX, into carrying WSKY-DT, then he might have something. My feeling is WSKY relies heavily on cable/satellite subs. He has something planned but isn't spilling the beans... yet...

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post #208 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 06:23 AM
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Trees, trees, trees. I love them but they are getting in the way. :-) The Voom installer came this past Saturday and started laughing as he stepped out of his truck. No Voom unless I knock down a beautiful tree that withstood the hurricane without damage. He also told me that Direct TV would also be iffy because I have tall trees in the other direction as well.

Fortunately, I have been able to adjust my antenna so that I can get everything but WB fairly solid. I still had a dropout or two on Channel 10 last night but 27 is now coming in well.
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post #209 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by robertawillisjr
Trees, trees, trees. I love them but they are getting in the way.

Years ago, I had a TV repairman, who also installed dishes, tell me the same thing. So I installed the dish myself, as high as possible on my chimney (for USSB service, remember them?) Worked great for years.

I know Voom doesn't allow self installs, but maybe you can have your tree "topped" by an arbor service, enough to give you a few years clearence, instead of taking it down totally.
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post #210 of 7950 Old 04-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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BFoster just wondering? I gew up in socalifornia and new a guy in school named Brian Foster just wondering if it might be you!
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