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post #271 of 3707 Old 02-09-2005, 02:53 AM
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Final election chart for this area's receivable stations:

WTVR-25
WRIC-22 (not yet on FCC site, but dcheney has stated this)
WWBT-12
WCVE-42
WRLH-26
WCVW-44
WUPV-47

WCAV-19
WVIR-32
WHTJ-46

WHSV-49
WVPT-11
WVPY-21

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #272 of 3707 Old 02-10-2005, 09:32 AM
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For the past week WVIR-DT has been operating at reduced power (60%) due to a problem in one of the output amplifiers. Since the transmitter is still under warranty the engineering dept elected to let the manufacturer, Thales, do the repair. While the manufacturer was on site with $100k in test equipment, they also tuned the exciters for the best possible signal to noise ratio.

The point of all this is to say WVIR-DT is now transmitting the best picture of which the transmitter is capable at its maximum power of 1,000Kw.

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post #273 of 3707 Old 02-11-2005, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
The point of all this is to say WVIR-DT is now transmitting the best picture of which the transmitter is capable at its maximum power of 1,000Kw.

. . . and we thank you. Looks great from over here in the Shenandoah Valley! If it comes up some time with the sales staff, be sure to let them know that there are plenty of us who come to Charlottesville to spend money, and NBC29 advertising reaches us.

But here's a puzzle about signal strength. When I crank my ChannelMaster 4248 around to face NBC29's transmitter straight on, and get that good strong signal on my Samsung HDTV receiver . . . I'm also getting a signal of *equal strength* from FOX-35 in Richmond, according to the bar graph on the Samsung. From where I am, those stations are aligned within about 5 degrees of each other, sure, but that FOX-35 signal has an additional 50? miles of real estate to cross.

At that same heading, I get the expected iffy signals from the other Richmond stations -- can lock them most of the time, but reception problems are no mystery since it's so far.

But why is FOX-35 so strong?

willie
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post #274 of 3707 Old 02-11-2005, 02:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
The point of all this is to say WVIR-DT is now transmitting the best picture of which the transmitter is capable at its maximum power of 1,000Kw.

Way to go 29, I finally got a chance to check this and WVIR-DT almost has maxed out my Sony HD200 signal strength meter to its strongest point.

Quote:


Originally posted by wildwillie6
But here's a puzzle about signal strength. When I crank my ChannelMaster 4248 around to face NBC29's transmitter straight on, and get that good strong signal on my Samsung HDTV receiver . . . I'm also getting a signal of *equal strength* from FOX-35 in Richmond, according to the bar graph on the Samsung. From where I am, those stations are aligned within about 5 degrees of each other, sure, but that FOX-35 signal has an additional 50? miles of real estate to cross.

I'm experiencing the same thing on my signal strength meter for Fox 35 which may be even a teeny bit stronger than WVIR-DT. I've looked at comparisons of power, transmitter height, channel no., etc. and I haven't a clue. Willie's right, Fox 35 should be weaker if anything. But we're not complaining and I'm glad I also get Richmond CBS, ABC, & PBS digital almost as strong.
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post #275 of 3707 Old 02-14-2005, 09:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bill Johnson
I'm experiencing the same thing on my signal strength meter for Fox 35 which may be even a teeny bit stronger than WVIR-DT. I've looked at comparisons of power, transmitter height, channel no., etc. and I haven't a clue. Willie's right, Fox 35 should be weaker if anything. But we're not complaining and I'm glad I also get Richmond CBS, ABC, & PBS digital almost as strong. [/b]

In addition to distance, height, power and directional pattern of the antenna, there is another factor which affects the received signal at a distant receiver (beyond the horizon), and that is beam tilt. All transmitting antennas tilt the beam below the horizon...the amount of tilt may be as little as .5 degree or as much as 1.5 degrees depending antenna height and where the station desires to concentrate the center of its beam. In the case of WVIR-DT, we use maximum tilt to avoid concentrating the center of the beam into the side of the Blue Ridge Mountains. That results in less signal over the Blue Ridge into the Shenandoah Valley, however, it also reduces the amount of reflected signal back into Albemarle County and Charlottesville.

On my Samsung SIRT-165 the receiver is saturated at about 10 bars even though the scale goes much higher. In downtown Charlottesville it shows 6 bars on 6.1 and 8.1, 1 to 2 bars on 12.1, 4 bars on 23.1, 10 bars on 29.1, 5 bars on 35.1, 9 to 10 bars on 41.1, and 3 bars on 44.1. So what does it all mean? In the digital world, very little, the pictures all look perfect. The important number is BER (bit error rate), and no consumer receiver delivers that information.

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post #276 of 3707 Old 02-14-2005, 12:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
In addition to distance, height, power and directional pattern of the antenna, there is another factor which affects the received signal at a distant receiver (beyond the horizon), and that is beam tilt...

I remember reading some time ago online an engineering report on beam tilt and it's something I need to keep an eye on. My incredible distance digital reception probably is at the mercy of beam tilt.
Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
...On my Samsung SIRT-165 the receiver is saturated at about 10 bars even though the scale goes much higher. In downtown Charlottesville it shows 6 bars on 6.1 and 8.1, 1 TO 2 BARS ON 12.1...(Caps added for emphasis)

Now I know I'm not the only one getting poor or no reception of 12.1 amongst the other much stronger rock solid Richmond digital stations. Must ask Michael Park of WWBT whether it would hurt to raise his beam tilt a little. That'll impress the socks off of him and he could do it, but I owe it all to 29Guy who doesn't fear competition.
Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
...The important number is BER (bit error rate), and no consumer receiver delivers that information.

I wonder exactly what this is and how I can get it.
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post #277 of 3707 Old 02-14-2005, 02:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bill Johnson
I remember reading some time ago online an engineering report on beam tilt and it's something I need to keep an eye on. My incredible distance digital reception probably is at the mercy of beam tilt.

Now I know I'm not the only one getting poor or no reception of 12.1 amongst the other much stronger rock solid Richmond digital stations. Must ask Michael Park of WWBT whether it would hurt to raise his beam tilt a little. That'll impress the socks off of him and he could do it, but I owe it all to 29Guy who doesn't fear competition.

Bill:

WWBT's problem is height on their tower (700ft) coupled with a lousy transitional assignment from the FCC, channel 54. That is why it is to their advantage to eventually return to Channel 12. Also, you cannot adjust beamtilt. It is set when the antenna is manufactured.

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post #278 of 3707 Old 02-14-2005, 02:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by 29Guy
...Also, you cannot adjust beamtilt. It is set when the antenna is manufactured.

This is fascinating and my memory must have been a little off about the beamtilt engineering article. I assume the specs. are set when antenna ordered and the article was discussing considering different degrees when ordering rather than post installation, as I had thought. So if a station has to change its transmitting pattern (FCC demands or who knows what other reasons), the current antenna cannot be modified and is obsolete?

Nevertheless, beamtilt may be somewhat in the equation of those having WWBT-DT reception problems and I wonder if I can find 12-1's on the FCC website. If it's .5, I'll say ah ha!
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post #279 of 3707 Old 03-10-2005, 09:32 AM
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Anyone having trouble with the WHTJ 41.1 signal? My Sony tuner says it has a 98% signal lock but all i've gotten for over a week is a black screen.

Anyone else experience this problem??
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post #280 of 3707 Old 03-10-2005, 10:54 AM
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Looks as if they are having encoder issues. Takes 10-15 seconds to lockup on my SIR-T165, and identifies itself as 46-1.

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post #281 of 3707 Old 03-10-2005, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Not getting anything at all for WHTJ, over here in the Valley.

(But 29 is solid for ACC basketball! )

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post #282 of 3707 Old 03-11-2005, 07:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bbriian
Anyone having trouble with the WHTJ 41.1 signal? My Sony tuner says it has a 98% signal lock but all i've gotten for over a week is a black screen.
Anyone else experience this problem??

My Sony HD200 brings in 41.1 rock solid, but the problem is the Sony only allows me at one time to scan in 2 zip codes for program guide info. And the HD nut that I am means that has to be DC and Richmond. So when I rescan for those zip codes, then I get a blank screen for 41.1 with the message that current channel doesn't support signal strength. Weird!

The important thing is I get almost all the digital stations rock solid from DC and Richmond plus those in the Harrisonburg-C'ville area. So I'll just have to do a temporary rescan when I want to see something SD (sheesh) on 41.1. By the way, I wonder why WVPT-DT (51.1) has 2 on-screen station logos in lower right corner including WVPY-DT Front Royal. Also weird!
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post #283 of 3707 Old 03-12-2005, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bill Johnson
By the way, I wonder why WVPT-DT (51.1) has 2 on-screen station logos in lower right corner including WVPY-DT Front Royal. Also weird!

I can see the reason for the logos if they're feeding that to both digital transmitters, but the logos sure do take up a lot of screen real estate! I know they're semi-transparent and unobtrusive in that way, but I find the display distracting.

Love the programming, though.

willie
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post #284 of 3707 Old 03-20-2005, 05:09 PM
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Bill Johnson and wildwillie,

Hi,
I'm in the Verona area and can get the following analog stations, which I have ranked on a 1 to 10 scale as follows:

9-10 = best
6-8 = very good, but not with the sharpness and color saturation of the best
4-5 = fair, can certainly watch without great trouble but resolution and color are nowhere near 10
1-3 = reception varies, sometimes can tolerate if I really want to see something (example -Redskins Report on 4) but signal is often so poor I can't receive station or picture it is loaded with confetti.
0 = no discernable signal

WHSV-3 = 10 - As you might expect.
WVPT-58 = 6-8 range - Signal quality seems to vary a lot.
WUSA - 9 = 4-6 range - Comes and goes with the weather, but not really too bad.
WUSA-18 = 9-10 - Not that this matters as no HD off the translators as of yet if I understand correctly
WMAL-7 = 4-5 - Not as strong as 9, but I can usually pick up a passable picture if need be
WRC - 4 =1-3 - Guessing interference from 3 ruins thisusually quite noisy but can make out folks okay
WTTG - 5 = 4-6 - Often have noise heremy guess is CB interference but not sure,
WTTG - 46 = 5-6 - Better than 5, but still have interference problemsnot as good as 18 and 28
WETA - 26 = 3-4 - Use to get this and 32 pretty darn good, but last couple years they seem to have faded considerably on me. Plenty of noise noticeable.
WHUT - 32 =
WDCA - 20- 5-7 Also doesn't seem as good as in years past. Strangely enough, this often was my best OTA signal from D.C. It's still pretty darn good.
WMPT- 22 = 0-3 - If I really need to SEE a show, forget it. It's almost a blizzard when I can pick it up.
WBDC - 50 = 0-1 - I can tell there is something there, but can't get much usually.
WTVR - 6 = 6-8 - Can get a pretty darn good signal with antenna turned to Richmond.
WXEX- 8 = 5-7 - Not as strong as 6, but better than 7 out of D.C.
WWBT -12 = 5-6 - Weakest of my three Richmond stationsthank goodness for 29, which I watch on 28my best reception along with 3

Sorry about the overlapping categories. I hoped to avoid that but what with the variations in signals. So, what do you think? Does that compare with your analog reception? Think I can approach the success you guys have had picking up digital OTA signals? What about tuners for fringe areas such as ours? Saw the remarks about the Zenith/LG/Sony but I have waited so long I will now probably buy a set with a built-in tuner, instead of monitor. It will probably be a Sony CRT (not a RPTV, just the plain ole tube). Do you guys have satellite also? If so, how are the tuners for Directv or Dish with OTA HD signals? Are you sick of all these questions yet?

I realize my mileage may very, but would like to get a comparisonfor the fun of it if nothing else. I was very happy to see the good results both of you seemed to have with OTA HD signals. I feared all the dang stations were still broadcasting at such low power that it might not be worth the effort (not to mention the money) to take the plunge now.

If anyone else has anything to add germane to OTA reception in this area (tuner performance of various brands TV's or satellite systems for instance), that would be appreciated also.

Thanks.

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post #285 of 3707 Old 03-20-2005, 07:43 PM
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Hello Ty,
Your analog reception is pretty much similar to mine across the board except I get both 7 and 9 24/7 more like a rating of perhaps 8 going on 9.

Verona's elevation is 1280 ft. and unless you're on a hill you may be more limited than my nearly 1800 ft., especially getting DC digital stations. Don't know what antenna you're using, but I'm sold on a CM 4228 running a straight shot (QS RG-6 of 50 ft. or less) using dist. amp only to STB. My wife really doesn't care, but I put antenna in attic mainly because of wind. If you're on roof, so much the better.

Being an HD addict & given your analog reception, I believe you might be satisfied when you give digital a shot -- especially from Richmond. I have DirecTV which requires a STB (mine is Sony HD200 which is basically same as the LG/Zenith) & I believe this STB contributes bigtime to my remarkable OTA reception. I installed the Sat. dish myself and it was no big deal other than the work to set pole in 3 ft. of concrete and properly ground it.

My wife watches Sat. channels all the time on our only digital set unless I take over to watch sports events in HD and sometimes in SD -- either OTA or Sat. and the Sony HD200 handles each seamlessly. Analog OTA is not watched in our household unless we're on the treadmill in the basement, which only receives analog OTA, or unless we're infrequently in the living room watching Sat. or OTA on an analog set.

You can't go wrong for outstanding PQ with a Sony CRT, but get it as big as you possibly can (36" is probably as big as they come). My Hit. 57" RPTV is terrific and HD seems to be much better with bigger sets. I would have bought a 65 incher but was a little beyond my budget.
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post #286 of 3707 Old 03-21-2005, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, Ty. It's good to hear from you, and the posters here don't mind the questions -- especially if you'll report your experience and add to the knowledge base after you give this a try!

Your reported Verona analog reception is uniformly better than mine here in Bridgewater. For example: On your scale, my analog D.C. stations were all 1-3 or so; analog Richmond was 4-5 or so, with WRIC-8 coming in at about 6 or 8. (I thought of those pictures as "watchable" at the time but turned the old antenna toward the Massanutten translator most of the time.) So, I would think your chances of getting a good lock on signals from Verona would be good.

In my case, I was "almost" getting the Richmond stations with just the small UHF elements of a combination ChannelMaster VHF-UHF antenna, and I was concerned about wind load with a mast sticking above my second story, so I went with the CM 4248-7777 preamp combination. If you don't have a wind concern, my reading is that the CM 4228 may be slightly better, especially in the UHF 20's, which is where your most important signals will come from.

As for your other questions:

> What about tuners for fringe areas such as ours?

I had good luck with a Zenith HDV420 until it failed, with one day (!) left on the warranty. The local Circuit City, at the manager's discretion, replaced it with a new Samsung SIR-T451. Results seem almost exactly the same as with the Zenith, but the Samsung seems to "work harder" to display an ultimately un-lockable signal. (The Zenith wouldn't display anything unless it turned out to be a perfect signal; the Samsung will display pixelated and blocked signals when it can't quite lock a Richmond station for me.)

I am told that the "fifth generation" tuners will be a whole lot better than the current ones, but that's a topic for another area of the board, I guess. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5th+generation )

> It will probably be a Sony CRT (not a RPTV, just the plain ole tube). Do you guys have satellite also?

I don't have satellite, but I do have the Sony 30" CRT monitor (the least expensive one, purchased from Harrisonburg Circuit City). It is spectacular, well worth the money, in my view. I thought long and hard about the 30" Sanyo at Wal Mart (with integrated tuner, for a spectacularly good price), but at the time I had a (great, never to fail!) Zenith HDV420 receiver and there were some audio sync issues with that set.
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post #287 of 3707 Old 03-21-2005, 09:05 PM
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Bill Johnson and wildwillie 6,

Thanks to you both for replying to my post. It sounds pretty darn encouraging since I believed things were still in a state of
low power broadcasts until a salesman at Crutchfields pointed out this thread to me (if he is reading thisthanks againand thanks to you, Bill, for the link as regards the fifth generation chipset receivers). I am using a outdoor combo antenna and hope I don't have to add a dedicated UHF antenna. There is no room in the attic for it and I don't think I could add either the CM 4228 or 4248 to my rooftop set-up as it is now configured. I do live on a hill, and wind could be a factor as regards the 4228. Maybe I could work something out on the 4248.

I also wish I could get a bigger screen, but I fear my viewing distance will not accommadate it. What's worse, the room is dang near square, so I fear my sound system is going to interact badly with my air molecules. Sheeeesh. Always something. Course, I have been lurking around this site for a couple of years now, so who's to say I will ever buy a new set anyway. I can't help but look at the ads for those darn LCD's that are supposed to deliver true 1080 x 1920 resolution without pangs of desire. Now, if I just wait another 5 years for the prices to come down.yeahthat's the ticketand maybe the dollar will regain some of its valueand maybe I'll hit the lottery or maybe Bill Gates will give me a new set for putting up with Windows ME for all these yearsor maybe

Thanks again.

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post #288 of 3707 Old 04-10-2005, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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. . . great shots on Saturday. Unfortunately, today at this great range I'm getting a lot of dropouts on WTVR-DT's coverage. Are others having better luck getting Sunday's final round?

willie
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post #289 of 3707 Old 04-10-2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:


. . . great shots on Saturday. Unfortunately, today at this great range I'm getting a lot of dropouts on WTVR-DT's coverage. Are others having better luck getting Sunday's final round?
willie

OTA-wise on the Masters, both 9-1 and 6-1 are as strong as ever for me, but I wish CBS would scuttle those SD cameras. On an HD telecast, the SD views stick out like sore thumbs. Then again, it makes you appreciate the HD ones even more and those shots of Amen Corner almost take your breath away, especially 12.

But this Masters is just about officially over; Tiger will never never never get caught when he goes into the 4th round with a 3 shot lead and him at the height of his game. His swearing on camera over bad shots is disgusting, but, notwithstanding, he probably is the best golfer that ever teed up.
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post #290 of 3707 Old 04-10-2005, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Starting about 4:30 p.m., the picture got stronger for me -- almost perfect the rest of the way. And, I agree that SD shots do stick out in comparison with the HD shots. That golf course was made for hi-def.

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post #291 of 3707 Old 04-22-2005, 10:37 AM
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So if the proposed Comcast-Time Warner deal goes through, local Adelphia customers will become Comcast customers. What will that do for our local cable HDTV offerings? For that matters, what does Adelphia offer locally in HDTV now? (Over-the-air is doing great for me locally, but then I don't demand a lot out of TV.)

Doug
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post #292 of 3707 Old 04-27-2005, 02:58 AM
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Click here for the story...

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post #293 of 3707 Old 05-27-2005, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that the trees have leafed back out, how's your reception?

For whatever reasons, my reception of WTVR-DT (6.x) from Richmond has gotten worse. Back during the Masters golf tournament, I got that with very few dropouts. Now I can rarely get WTVR-DT at all.

Naturally I don't know whether this is due to the leaves, or to something else. (And here, I'm talking about leaves on the trees at the top of the Blue Ridge. I have a good clear shot at the crest of the Blue Ridge from my main antenna location.)

WVIR-DT (NBC Charlottesville) and WRLH-DT (FOX Richmond) continue to be strong.

willie
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post #294 of 3707 Old 05-27-2005, 09:29 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by wildwillie6
Now that the trees have leafed back out, how's your reception?

The digital big four from both DC & Richmond all continue to be "rock solid" for me here just below Eliott Knob. WWBT-DT (12-1) has even been coming in strong in recent days whereas that was the only one of the eight I couldn't pick up before. And as with you, 29-1 and 35-1 are powerful, with the latter maxing out my signal strength meter.

In my case then, knife edge diffraction over the Blue Ridge mustn't be a factor because the leaf effect should be in full bloom now.

Perhaps you have some terrain issues in Bridgewater; and, as I come thru there once or twice a week, I notice that some locations would be better than others for digital reception. Downtown would be worse, with east being higher & better.
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post #295 of 3707 Old 06-09-2005, 06:24 PM
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While going through Charlottesville on business today, I thought I noticed a sign saying something about "FOX 27 - coming soon." But I didn't look closely . . . paying attention to driving instead. Does anyone know the story on the new Fox affiliate, if I was reading that sign correctly? Power? Ownership? Plans for digital broadcasting?

Doug
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post #296 of 3707 Old 06-09-2005, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by giantcycle View Post

While going through Charlottesville on business today, I thought I noticed a sign saying something about "FOX 27 - coming soon." But I didn't look closely . . . paying attention to driving instead. Does anyone know the story on the new Fox affiliate, if I was reading that sign correctly? Power? Ownership? Plans for digital broadcasting?

Doug

Gray Television is in the midst of closing on channel 27, WADA-LP. Gray plans to change the call letters to WAHU and make it a FOX affiliate. Tiger Eye Broadcasting is the seller who put the PAX network on it. Was on channel 55 until recently moving to channel 27. They will be doing around 50kW and are highly directional, barely any power to the SW, S and SE.

As for plans for digital? Probably in the future, no time soon though. LIN TV, which owns a handful of Low Power TV (LPTV) stations and WAVY (10/NBC) and WVBT (43/FOX) here in Hampton Roads, as already converted two of their LPTVs to digital...

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post #297 of 3707 Old 06-09-2005, 07:42 PM
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Given their stand on ABC and CBS, they won't go digital until the FCC makes them cut off analog. So late 2006, early 2007.

They do however have all the equipment in place, and they claim they just have to flip a switch.
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post #298 of 3707 Old 06-10-2005, 11:33 AM
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Grey television couldn't care less about their OTA signal. They just want to be the local affiliate so the cable provider will have to carry their signal. Don't hold your breath on any of their stations going digital before the deadline!
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post #299 of 3707 Old 06-10-2005, 12:58 PM
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Does anybody know what power 16 and 19 are currently transmitting at? In recent weeks my reception of both has somewhat improved and this HD nut only watches them while on treadmill and wanting local news with weather. I believe they're low power but the FCC website seems to indicate 100 kW for 19 and this surely can't be true. If they are LPTV, they don't have to go digital probably until 2009, great Scott!
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post #300 of 3707 Old 06-10-2005, 01:37 PM
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Does anybody know what power 16 and 19 are currently transmitting at... I believe they're low power but the FCC website seems to indicate 100 kW for 19 and this surely can't be true. If they are LPTV, they don't have to go digital probably until 2009, great Scott!

CBS19 WCAV is full-power but directional at 1000kW. Here's their 64dBu coverage contour according to the FCC...

ABC16 WVAW-LP is low power but they are at the max power allowed by the FCC - 150kW. They too are directional. Here's their 74dBu coverage contour according to the FCC...

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