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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Fargo, ND - HDTV
SpedInFargo's Avatar SpedInFargo 11:52 AM 10-27-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottahavapj View Post

My experience is that it is actually worse than the 6408 which in turn was considerably worse than the black 2800 series I had for the standard digital cable before that.


Guess I missed Puck's note on the new 6412s - didn't mean to try and scoop you!

PJ - you're correct about the "actually worse" perception when you went up to the 6412 (I think the non-DVR version that you had was probably the 6200). This is because the DVR boxes do real-time MPEG encoding of the analog channels. This is considerably worse than just the analog signal itself and then also the 300's and HD channels as well (as the encoding of those signals is done before they ever get sent down the line).

Unfortunately, the DVR boxes don't allow you to do "pass-through" of the unencoded signal - this is because even when you're watching "live" tv it's still being recorded (encoded), buffered, and then sent to your TV. This is what allows you to do the "pause live tv" thing.

The quality of what comes out of these boxes would I suppose be affected by the following: a) the tuner itself, b) the mpeg encoder, and c) I suppose whatever it does to convert that SD signal back to the component video.

What I'm beginning to think is that definitely Moto's mpeg encoder (b) sucks (although as Puck mentioned - probably is a lot better on the Phase 3) and quite probably the tuner itself (a) sucks as well (although again, maybe the Phase 3 is a bit better).

For best SD quality, you would definitely want to hook up a cable directly to your TV - of course you lose the guide capabilities and the sound through your receiver by doing this. I suppose a person could get real crasy and also hook up a second cable box and just use that for SD non-DVR'd material...

Just more ramblings....

puck71's Avatar puck71 12:46 PM 10-27-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpedInFargo View Post

Unfortunately, the DVR boxes don't allow you to do "pass-through" of the unencoded signal - this is because even when you're watching "live" tv it's still being recorded (encoded), buffered, and then sent to your TV. This is what allows you to do the "pause live tv" thing.

The closest you can get to native passthrough is by using the firewire output. It may still be MPEG encoded by the box (not 100% sure on that), but the resolution is sent out natively. You don't get the on-screen menus using firewire, but you will get sound.
ThreePutt's Avatar ThreePutt 04:03 PM 10-27-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by glura View Post

Has anbody had success combining UFH singals from 2 UHF antennas? I'm guessing ghosting is an issue, but I wonder if issues can be adjusted out somehow?

Thanks,
Gary

Gary, check out this thread that talks about combining two UHF antennas.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590265
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske 06:44 PM 10-27-2005
I've had quite a few questions lately about getting a HD signal, and about what kind of antenna to use. I don't know if there is any magic combination, in theory the DTV signals should be more reliable than their analog counterparts.

I'm using a standard yagi VHF/UHF antenna mounted on my chimney pointed NNW. I also have a UHF only "bowtie" style antenna combined into one cable. The UHF only antenna is not doing anything for me, but I keep it just in case. I live near University and I-94.

I have a Samsung SIR-T150 tuner. Got it like 2 years ago as an open box at Be$t Buy.

I've heard of some people having trouble tuning KVLY with PC tuner cards? For those that read this, which cards are working for you? Paulbram, I believe you had to do some trick to get it to work, right?

KVLY's NBC feed is affected by NBC's east coast uplink. Sounds like it is more sensitive to rain than the SD uplink is. If you notice breakups on NBC, check if it is raining on the eastcoast. I've noticed that KVLY will try to switch over to the SD feed if they notice it is happening. Better than nothing.

I've recieved multiple confirmations that KXJB seems to be stating 11/1 as a date for broadcasting. I might need to invest in a HD PVR solution pretty soon.

KVLY/KXJB and CableONE still have issues to resvolve around money. I predict that WDAY and KVRR will ask for the same arrangement. I'm not really sure I can take sides on this issue. On one hand, CableONE should not have to pay, but they ARE charging for the service. KVLY shouldn't be asking for payment, but the upgrade did cost them money, which they should've been saving for anyway.

Can't believe it, 10 pages!

Brian G.
http://brian.glaeske.name/ht/Fargo-HDTV/
paulbram's Avatar paulbram 10:16 PM 10-27-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

I've heard of some people having trouble tuning KVLY with PC tuner cards? For those that read this, which cards are working for you? Paulbram, I believe you had to do some trick to get it to work, right?

I have an HD tuner in my PC. It's the Dvico Fusion 3 gold. It's capable of picking up both ATSC (over the air) and QAM (cable) HD signals. I've not tried tuning CableOne's HD signal but I've spoken with others that say CableOne does not encrypt the signal.

The built in tuner software on my PC tunes everything just fine. Media Center did have some issues with KVLY initially. That problem has been solved however.
dandeson83's Avatar dandeson83 06:10 PM 10-30-2005
I see that FSN North has on their schedule, 11/5 Timberwolves, 11/6 Wild, & 11/9 Timberwolves games listed to be in HD. Has anyone heard anything on CableOne adding FSN-HD North to their lineup? Looks like it is time for another round of e-mail channel requests.
puck71's Avatar puck71 08:06 PM 10-31-2005
I can predict the answer to those e-mails...

Anyway, in case anyone's keeping score, I haven't got any sign of a signal for KXJB-DT yet.
sehli's Avatar sehli 11:36 PM 10-31-2005
Anyone know if the hard drive is larger on the phase 3 DVRs?
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 08:44 AM 11-01-2005
Got an email from someone at KX yesterday and he said that they are starting testing today. I tried for a signal a few hours ago but got nothing. I'm guessing that late afternoon (or even this evening) might be a good time. I won't be around, but hopefully someone from this thread can give it a try. I'm guessing that testing might last a few days or so, and we'll have a consistent signal after that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

I can predict the answer to those e-mails...

Anyway, in case anyone's keeping score, I haven't got any sign of a signal for KXJB-DT yet.


puck71's Avatar puck71 09:16 AM 11-01-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sehli View Post

Anyone know if the hard drive is larger on the phase 3 DVRs?

Nope, it's still 120GB. The last two digits in the model number are short for the capacity, so the DCT6208 has 80GB, the DCT6412 has 120GB, and the hopefully upcoming DCT6416 will have 160GB.
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 12:21 PM 11-01-2005
Good news. I checked channel 38.1 at around Noon today and got the test signal. I'm using a powered indoor antenna in Grand Forks.

Hopefully testing won't take long and they'll get a signal up full-time soon.

J-


Quote:
Originally Posted by GFJay View Post

Got an email from someone at KX yesterday and he said that they are starting testing today. I tried for a signal a few hours ago but got nothing. I'm guessing that late afternoon (or even this evening) might be a good time. I won't be around, but hopefully someone from this thread can give it a try. I'm guessing that testing might last a few days or so, and we'll have a consistent signal after that.


puck71's Avatar puck71 08:17 AM 11-02-2005
I didn't get any signal last night during primetime. I checked a few times and had 0 signal strength. Hopefully they can get it up by tomorrow for CSI and Without a Trace! (I'd say Survivor too, but that's not an HD show)
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske 04:52 PM 11-02-2005
I've been having trouble with KVLY. Since Monday, I've seen no signal.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Brian G.
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 05:53 PM 11-02-2005
I haven't run into any problems. I was able to watch it for 2 hours last night with no problem, and I've seen it broadcasting in the mornings on Mon and Tue.

J-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

I've been having trouble with KVLY. Since Monday, I've seen no signal.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Brian G.


puck71's Avatar puck71 04:10 PM 11-03-2005
There's a test signal up on KXJB right now. Wonder if they'll put anything real up during primetime??
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 04:26 PM 11-03-2005
I hope so! It'd be great to see CSI tonight and Threshold tomorrow.

Last I heard from the station was that they are testing the HVAC system to make sure that it can handle the heat of 2 transmittors. I imagine that a huge amount of heat is created!

J-
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske 04:41 PM 11-03-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

I've been having trouble with KVLY. Since Monday, I've seen no signal.

KVLY's engineering states that there are some adjustments they are making to their stream tables (whatever the heck those are). This might be my problem.

One of the things I did on Monday was to scan for new channels, and I think this might be my problem. GFJay, are you dialing directly to 38 or are you running a channel scan?

Brian G.
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 04:49 PM 11-03-2005
I went directly to 38.1. I did a channel scan, and it recognized something new broadcasting, but the received (I have a DirecTV HD TiVo) didn't recognize the channel because it wasn't broadcasting a station ID.

Going directly to 38.1 was showing me the test signal. I'm curious if the channel will eventually start broadcasting on 4.1. The actual signal from KVLY is channel 44.1, but the station ID is broadcast (thus the channel recognized by my receiver) is 11.1. I'm wondering if KX will do the same thing.

Did you ever re-establish a signal from KVLY?

J-
puck71's Avatar puck71 05:58 PM 11-03-2005
I did a scan tonight and this is what I found (HD-wise):

KVLY-DT broadcasting on 44.1 identifying themselves as "KVLYDT" channel 11.1
KXJB-DT broadcasting on 38.1 identifying themselves as "KXJB-DT" channel 4.1

The KVLY channel ID used to be "KVLY-DT" and now it's "KVLYDT" so they must have changed something...it didn't affect anything for me, but maybe it did for you?

UPDATE: "Survivor" is on KXJB-DT!! It's not filmed in HD though, so we have to wait another hour to possibly see our first HD signal (CSI).
tim@acetv's Avatar tim@acetv 07:44 PM 11-03-2005
My sony is picking up cbs in 1080i but it appears they are not broadcasting in 16x9 true hd. It seems as though it is the sd 480 signal being pumped into the xmitter, as my tv has the black bars on the side indicating 4x3.
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 08:04 PM 11-03-2005
Which show was broadcasting like that? If it was Survivor, that would be expected, as the show is not broadcast in HD.

Good to know that KX seems to actually be broadcasting now. I'm still at the office and haven't had a chance to get home and run the scan. Hopefully they'll be broadcasting Letterman tonight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim@acetv View Post

My sony is picking up cbs in 1080i but it appears they are not broadcasting in 16x9 true hd. It seems as though it is the sd 480 signal being pumped into the xmitter, as my tv has the black bars on the side indicating 4x3.


puck71's Avatar puck71 08:07 PM 11-03-2005
Ditto here. They've tried twice (that I saw) to put on true 16x9 HD, and the video looked great but there was no audio. They switched back to black-barred 4x3 a short time later.

(This was during CSI)
paulbram's Avatar paulbram 11:20 PM 11-03-2005
Letterman was in HD tonight. It looked great!

2 down, 2 to go!
puck71's Avatar puck71 06:52 AM 11-04-2005
They were about 50/50 HD during Without a Trace, so I figured they had it pretty much worked out. This will be great on Sunday!!
glura's Avatar glura 09:50 AM 11-04-2005
I picked up the KX4 signal last night as well. I saw the test signal earlier in the evening, checked back and saw the last part of Survivor and the beginning of CSI.
Survivor did not fill my screen (16x9) and had black bars all around. Audio was fine.
When CSI started, it displayed in Widescreen 2:35:1. I did not get any audio.
I had to do some other stuff, so didn't watch the full shows.

Equipment used to get the signal:
Outdoor UHF antenna (cheap Yagi from Radio Schaak)
Windows Media Center PC w/ DTA-151 PCI card

KX's signal must be very strong. I had repositioned my antenna over the weekend and had left everything "loose" because I was going to do some more tweeking. When I looked last night, everything had twisted around from recent winds, so it was not pointing in an optimal direction I was getting full signal strengh according to the Signal Meter in MCE and the signal meter I have for the DTA card. Very cool. I think I better go lock it down

My Media Center PC is set for analog only, so I don't know if that had anything to do with not hearing CSI or if the signal just didn't carry audio. I could hear some light ticking/popping noises for the CSI broadcast. I need to setup my audio card today to send digital audio to my receiver instead of analog.
I have the digital signal recorded from 8pm until midnight, so will change my audio setup and playback the signal to see if that changes things.

Later,
Gary
paulbram's Avatar paulbram 10:03 AM 11-04-2005
I've noticed with KVLY that I have to use digital out from my soundcard for it to work. If I disable digiital audio out and use analog only, KVLY's sound STILL uses the digital out and not analog!

Fine by me I guess since I'd rather use spdif digital but I just think it's odd that it works this way. I haven't played much with the KX signal but I'm guessing this is why you weren't hearing any sound since I have pretty much the same setup as you.
glura's Avatar glura 10:26 AM 11-04-2005
I'd rather use digital as well. The only reason I had it setup for analog is that my receiver doesn't distribute digital audio to my second zone, and I sometimes pump audio from the MCE to the other rooms in my house (the second zone).
None of the stations were doing digital 5.1 audio, so it wasn't a big deal. But now with KXJB and KVLY stepping up to the plate, I'll switch the card over to digital.

If I want to listen to Media Center stuff in other rooms, I'll just play the main zone louder

I guess I could try using multi-channel analog output from my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 card too (eek, it's been a long time since I looked at what that card can do . Maybe that would work for doing 5.1 and 2.0, so I could still do 2.0 audio to my second zone since it's analog? But that's a discussion for a different forum

later,
Gary
puck71's Avatar puck71 11:02 AM 11-04-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by glura View Post

My Media Center PC is set for analog only, so I don't know if that had anything to do with not hearing CSI or if the signal just didn't carry audio. I could hear some light ticking/popping noises for the CSI broadcast.

That wasn't you. They had audio problems when they tried to send an HD signal during CSI. During CSI they probably only had a total of 30-60 seconds of HD video, and they didn't have sound either time. During Without a Trace they had about a half hour of HD video, and the audio was working fine too.
GFJay's Avatar GFJay 06:33 PM 11-04-2005
Anyone have problems with KX tonight? Things were working fine all day, then at around 5/530, the signal started going out, and now it's very hard to get a stable signal. If I didn't know better, I'd guess they reduced power, but I doubt thats the case.
puck71's Avatar puck71 08:00 PM 11-04-2005
I'm getting a great signal. Signal strength is the same tonight for me as it was last night (92 of 100).
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