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post #901 of 1966 Old 01-10-2008, 09:30 AM
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Did anyone else notice we have a couple new channels on Cableone's HD? TNT HD is back and we also have TBS HD. Those are some fairly nice additions. Now if they would only get Discovery HD (Cableone tries to play off HD Theater as Discovery HD, but we all know better).
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post #902 of 1966 Old 01-10-2008, 12:27 PM
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I don't even have cable - I used to have cable internet before I moved to my new home. Now i use Quest Broadband - almost the same speed and with a faster upload speed and lower cost(locked for life) I will never go back to cable one.

I would love if Midco came into town and made two service providers available. I always felt like I was being taken advantage of when I paid my Cable one bill every month. So now I have a TERK antenna and get all our local HD channels and I don't miss having 70+ "digital" channels at all.

In the end, I side with the Studio's. There are a lot of people that only get Cable One to have the locals available in a better quality(meaning better than regular OTA) and everything else is just a bonus. So even though Cable One gives the channels away for "free" they are profiting from it in the end.
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post #903 of 1966 Old 01-10-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akielb View Post

In the end, I side with the Studio's. There are a lot of people that only get Cable One to have the locals available in a better quality(meaning better than regular OTA) and everything else is just a bonus. So even though Cable One gives the channels away for "free" they are profiting from it in the end.

I don't think anyone is saying they don't profit from it, but not everyone agrees that that should automatically require them to pay for free television. And it's not like CableOne will be the one paying for it anyway. In reality, KVLY and KXJB are demanding that we (the viewers) pay for the privilege of seeing their so-called "free" channels. As with most things, I think the answer lies somewhere between $0 and $1.8 million (which apparently is where the two sides are at right now)
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post #904 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbacklund View Post

Did anyone else notice we have a couple new channels on Cableone's HD? TNT HD is back and we also have TBS HD. Those are some fairly nice additions. Now if they would only get Discovery HD (Cableone tries to play off HD Theater as Discovery HD, but we all know better).

I saw them last evening. TBS-HD on 452, and TNT-HD on 454. Those of you with Clear QAM tuners, looks like they are at 76.452 & 76.454.
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post #905 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

I don't think anyone is saying they don't profit from it, but not everyone agrees that that should automatically require them to pay for free television. And it's not like CableOne will be the one paying for it anyway. In reality, KVLY and KXJB are demanding that we (the viewers) pay for the privilege of seeing their so-called "free" channels. As with most things, I think the answer lies somewhere between $0 and $1.8 million (which apparently is where the two sides are at right now)

I would agree...the way I look at it, I'm paying CableOne NOT for the free channels, but for their delivery of them and the better picture quality that they provide (over and above the antenna, at least for me)....
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post #906 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbacklund View Post

Did anyone else notice we have a couple new channels on Cableone's HD? TNT HD is back and we also have TBS HD. Those are some fairly nice additions. Now if they would only get Discovery HD (Cableone tries to play off HD Theater as Discovery HD, but we all know better).

Edit: Spoke too soon, I see dandeson already mentioned that they were in clear QAM. That's pretty cool. Now if there were SOME way that I could get FSN-North before the Twins start up in April... (need to get it in HD so I can learn all the new players a little better)


What?? I knew there was a reason that I subscribed to this thread. I'll have to do a scan with the old HD Homerun tonight and see if either of these are clear QAM.

Maybe the Discovery HD/HD Theater thing is the reason I'm having trouble mapping guide data to that channel in Media Center...

For what it's worth, by the way, I've been running HD Homerun on Vista Media Center for about a week (a friend has been using it for a couple months) and am very impressed...
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post #907 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 08:14 AM
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Thanks for throwing up a copy of the story. Interesting. If my math is right, and it usually isn't, I'd guess that the fee would come in around $0.40-0.50 per subscriber per month if the contract were for 5 years. I'm completely guessing on how many subscribers cableone has however. Hoak would probably be better of raising their advertising costs by a similar amount.


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post #908 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 10:18 AM
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Actually, in today's Forum (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...6&section=news) they said the $1.8 million demand was for 3.5 years, not 5 years. It sounds like that's the total for both channels. Now if we had a solid subscriber count, we could actually figure out exactly how much they're asking for per subscriber per month, but I don't know where to get that number.
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post #909 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 10:50 AM
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serves cableone right.. i cant believe they charge such outrageous prices.. but to be fair, its not just cableone.. look at the prices for DSL thru 702Communications...

i used to have digital cable service thru cable one before and it was abt $70 almost after taxes etc... after i moved to a different place i was finally able to get Satellite and broke free from this evil empire's fist.

but still there are a lot of people in fargo-moorhead that get cableOne service because they dont know anything better... if they only saw Satellite and the price comparison will blow away any cable tv prices. for the best value for money at the moment satellite is the way to go in fargo-moorhead.
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post #910 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 11:01 AM
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latoboy and other Satellite lovers...
I can't agree more on the cost of Satellite over cable - until and there is one really big until - you go past 4 Tv's... which is probably most families that have two kinds. The cost of Satellite gets extremely expensive once you want to independently control more than 4 televisions.

This is the one area that I wish Direct or Dish would address, if they did, I would leave Cable in a heartbeat. But by the time you add splitters, and in some cases another dish, more boxes, and dang don't even ask if you need two or more HD boxes - that is almost impossible with Satellite.

Even with CabelOne having more than one HD is expensive because if you don;t have a QAM capable TV, you need to purchase the DVR for each HD television you have.
Luckily for me all three of mine support QAM tuners and also one has a cable card.
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post #911 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorFlik View Post

Here you go guys. For anyone that missed the story we aired, here's a copy.

Thanks DirectorFlik.

I am by no means a diehard CableOne supporter (They annoy me all the time with their lack of HD programming). But Charlie Johnson is way off base on this. Just watched the video, and he is saying that why doesn't CableOne drop unwatched channels, and give that movey to him. In a lot of circumstances, CableOne is forced by contract to carry those lesser channels, just to be able to carry the major ones. Take for example last April, when Turner forced CableOne to drop TNT-HD just because they wouldn't pay big bucks for CourtTV. Who in the heck watches CourtTV. But Turner wasn't going to let them keep TNT-HD without it. Disney does the same thing with ESPN. If you want ESPN & ESPN2, you have to carry SoapNet, ESPN Classic, etc, etc. If CableOne would drop those oddball channels, they would be forced to have to get rid of ESPN, TNT, etc. And then would the people cry and moan. Every time Charlie makes a point over this issue, is seems to be off base.
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post #912 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 01:39 PM
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Did you guys catch KFGO this morning and the ranting of Big Eddie. I think he got out of hand talking about Charlie Johnson. But Eds just another yahoo trying to get 2 seconds of attention.

I remember the days of paying $15 for lifeline where it was just the locals. I dont know how cable can refute they were not charging for free channels.

Fortunatly for me I moved outside of Cable1s grasp. Im a midco subscriber now. I had Cable1 for years for broadband, I was in the top 20 people that subscribed. I hated how they managed their customers overselling the service. You could tell when college started and the speeds dropped to below dialup. Cant say enough about how much I enjoy Midco. Wish FOX was in HD though.
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post #913 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latoboy View Post

but still there are a lot of people in fargo-moorhead that get cableOne service because they dont know anything better... if they only saw Satellite and the price comparison will blow away any cable tv prices. for the best value for money at the moment satellite is the way to go in fargo-moorhead.

I've done detailed comparisons of CableOne vs. Dish vs. DirecTV, and in order to get all the channels I'd want I'd need to get either the #1 or #2 package from satellite, plus sports package, locals, HD package, etc. I also add my Internet cost into the mix since having CableOne for TV does reduce my Internet rate. After I crunch all the numbers they all turn out to be about the same for me personally. Granted I would get more channels with satellite for about the same money, but it's not LESS money. When our HD locals are available over satellite is when I'll take another serious look at switching.

So some of us do a lot of research, but I agree there probably are plenty of people who would do a lot better with a dish, especially people who only want basic service on a couple TVs with no HD.
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post #914 of 1966 Old 01-11-2008, 03:46 PM
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Well, even if CableOne just offered a package with local channels, it would be difficult to offer it for "free". If they did just that, where would they get revenue for operating costs? They still need money to pay for powering the cable system, paying employees to operate it, etc. So to say they could offer locals for free, is a bit misleading. I feel that some of the cost of my bill, has to go to the overhead and convenience of cable. I can't imaging what their electricity bill must be, and I do know that Moorhead is raising electric rates in 2008, so that has to come into play I would imagine.

Now, not to justify high cable rates by any means. I feel I pay too much sometimes for the services I receive, but still. And on that same token, KVLY/KXJB have those same operating costs too.

I guess I'm just trying to take a rational, real look at it all. I guess both sides in theory are right, but in the "real" world, neither side is going to get that theoretical "perfect" result. There is going to have to be a comprimise somewhere in the middle.
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post #915 of 1966 Old 01-12-2008, 04:02 PM
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KVLY/KXJB sends out their HD signal free of charge to consumers. The idea that a commercial private enterprise like CableOne thinks they have the right to pick-up that signal, re-broadcast it and charge a fee in the process is astonishing and completely at odds with normal business practices.

One of the biggest selling points CableOne has in relation to Dish or DirecTV is that you can get the locals in HD without messing around with an antenna. Neither satellite provider has that service (and probably never will anytime soon given F-M's market size). CableOne's re-broadcasting of local HD signals provides them with a substantial marketing advantage. Of course CableOne should have to pay for it. The rub is what constitutes a fair re-broadcasting fee. I have no idea what that would be but $1.5M over three years sounds excessive.

Can CableOne drop KVLY/KXJB completely as retaliation or does their contract with Fargo require them to provide the locals? Seems to me that would be the next step in this game of chicken. If that happened I just assume it would put a dent in KVLY/KXJB's ad rates but it would also give CableOne's customers more incentive to switch to satellite.
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post #916 of 1966 Old 01-12-2008, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Lundegaard View Post

KVLY/KXJB sends out their HD signal free of charge to consumers. The idea that a commercial private enterprise like CableOne thinks they have the right to pick-up that signal, re-broadcast it and charge a fee in the process is astonishing and completely at odds with normal business practices.

What fee are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Lundegaard View Post

One of the biggest selling points CableOne has in relation to Dish or DirecTV is that you can get the locals in HD without messing around with an antenna. Neither satellite provider has that service (and probably never will anytime soon given F-M's market size). CableOne's re-broadcasting of local HD signals provides them with a substantial marketing advantage. Of course CableOne should have to pay for it. The rub is what constitutes a fair re-broadcasting fee. I have no idea what that would be but $1.5M over three years sounds excessive.

That's basically where I'm at too. This strikes me as one of those negotiations where one side (Hoak) starts out really high ($1.8 million), and the other side (CableOne) starts out really low (as far as I know $0, but it's possible they've offered something in the negotiations). Then eventually they'll meet somewhere in the middle.

Another issue facing CableOne, and more importantly its customers, is that the satellite providers are allowed to charge separately for local channels, but cable providers are not. What that means for us is that, assuming KVLY and KXJB get $0.25 per month per subscriber from CableOne, DirecTV, and Dish, customers will basically be forced to pay that $0.25 on CableOne, but on satellite they have a choice to either pay it or get it for free with an antenna. This is mentioned on the CableOne information channels on 460 and 465, but I think it's a fairly significant issue that should get more play.

On to another CableOne topic, there was a letter to the editor in Saturday's Forum (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=188563) about the Usenet situation. According to the Fargo CableOne Internet Manager, only 100 out of 320,000 nationwide CableOne subscribers were using the Usenet service, and that they sent out e-mails in November and December warning us about the upcoming change. Before I write to this guy directly, does anyone remember receiving such an e-mail? I don't think I would have missed one of those e-mails, let alone two! Also, that statistic is unbelievable to me, considering I used Usenet, the guy who wrote the letter to the editor did, and I think I counted 2 other people on this forum. That's 4 people in Fargo alone (unless the person who wrote the letter also posted on here), and this forum is a very small subset of people. And still no explanation of why they raised rates AND reduced service.
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post #917 of 1966 Old 01-13-2008, 05:55 AM
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puck, I'll take a look through my e-mail, but I do remember reading something about the newsgroups before the first of the year.

update** I don't see any emails on it either. I must have read it on their website or something.
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post #918 of 1966 Old 01-13-2008, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Lundegaard View Post

KVLY/KXJB sends out their HD signal free of charge to consumers. The idea that a commercial private enterprise like CableOne thinks they have the right to pick-up that signal, re-broadcast it and charge a fee in the process is astonishing and completely at odds with normal business practices.

Well not really. Cable providers are not allowed to alter the signals in any way. Cable providers are charging you for the cost of maintaining their network, which in turn provides television services to people at a much greater convenience than sticking up an antenna. In theory the price of the "basic" package allows the provider to re-coup the cost of business and allows for a profit.

Brian G.
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post #919 of 1966 Old 01-14-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Lundegaard View Post

Can CableOne drop KVLY/KXJB completely as retaliation or does their contract with Fargo require them to provide the locals?

Do the FCC "Must carry" rules apply the same to cable as they do satellite? If so they might not be able to drop their SD in retaliation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

Before I write to this guy directly, does anyone remember receiving such an e-mail?

I just checked my CableOne email account (I have only 1) and did not receive any notification, nor did my secondary account (hotmail) receive anything from them, besides the normal monthly 'Cable One DirectPay' mails.

Even their TOS/AU page still describes the rules regarding usenet access! http://www.cableone.net/internet/cmaup.asp

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Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

That's 4 people in Fargo alone (unless the person who wrote the letter also posted on here), and this forum is a very small subset of people. And still no explanation of why they raised rates AND reduced service.

I did not write to the newspaper myself, it wasn't me.

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Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

Well not really. Cable providers are not allowed to alter the signals in any way.

I seem to recall way back when I had CO, they put some of their own ads in place of locals on the local stations they carry, just as they do on the bigger channels like CNN/etc.. Is that considered modifying the signal?
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post #920 of 1966 Old 01-14-2008, 03:49 PM
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I just sent an e-mail to Dave Barge in follow-up to the Usenet issue. I assume his e-mail address is dave.barge@cableone.net based on their naming conventions (plus I haven't got it sent back). If anyone else who used the Usenet service wants to also send him a polite message, it may help make the point that more users used the service than they may have believed.
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post #921 of 1966 Old 01-15-2008, 04:12 PM
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Any response?


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post #922 of 1966 Old 01-15-2008, 05:59 PM
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Not yet.
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post #923 of 1966 Old 01-17-2008, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay3030Owner View Post

Do the FCC "Must carry" rules apply the same to cable as they do satellite? If so they might not be able to drop their SD in retaliation.

My limited knowledge of this issue indicates that the station, in this case KVLY/KXJB choose "must carry" or "retransmission consent". Hoak Media is obviously choosing the later. What is CableONE's options if consent can't be reached is not clear to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay3030Owner View Post

I seem to recall way back when I had CO, they put some of their own ads in place of locals on the local stations they carry, just as they do on the bigger channels like CNN/etc.. Is that considered modifying the signal?

Again, take this with a grain of salt, I don't believe that CableONE can insert their own ads into the network stream. I don't think that the local broadcaster would stand for that and neither would the network, especially if the network's ads are removed.

CNN is different as the cable operator is acting as the broadcaster. In this case, just like the NBC and KVLY for instance, the cable network has their ad spots in the programming and the local broadcaster/cable provider has their ad spots.

Anyway, is anyone else bored by all of this already? It sucks that NBC and CBS programming is not on CableONE. Too bad this two companies didn't exibit a bit more class and conduct these negotiations in private.

CableONE has a FAQ on the subject now. At least they're a bit more forthcoming with information than Hoak Media. http://www.cableone.net/display.asp?PROMO_ID=100668
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post #924 of 1966 Old 01-17-2008, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

CableONE has a FAQ on the subject now. At least they're a bit more forthcoming with information than Hoak Media. http://www.cableone.net/display.asp?PROMO_ID=100668

Strange quoting myself, but the CableONE FAQ is actually quite informative. In particular:

Quote:


Question: What is a retransmission agreement?

Answer: Since 1992, television stations have been authorized by the U.S. Congress to grant or deny permission for cable television systems to carry their signals. This right comes up for renewal every three years. We believe we have a valid retransmission consent agreement with Hoak to carry its stations but they are choosing to ignore the agreement and is denying us permission to carry the local HD stations.

Question: Can you bring in another CBS and NBC?

Answer: We could try, but most likely Hoak will block any attempts we make. Local television stations are protected by non-duplication protection rights. If Hoak invokes those rights they can prevent customers from receiving any alternative CBS and NBC programming on cable.

If the first question is true, it seems that CableONE has option of going to court over the issue. Couple of years ago, I wanted a waiver from KXJB and KVLY (before the merger) to receive CBS and NBC HD signals from satellite. Their response was, "we don't make a distinction between SD and HD". I guess their position is changed on that matter, but only because it benefits them.
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post #925 of 1966 Old 01-21-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Glaeske View Post

If the first question is true, it seems that CableONE has option of going to court over the issue. Couple of years ago, I wanted a waiver from KXJB and KVLY (before the merger) to receive CBS and NBC HD signals from satellite. Their response was, "we don't make a distinction between SD and HD". I guess their position is changed on that matter, but only because it benefits them.

What CableOne's answer says to me is that they have a retransmission agreement for KVLY and KXJB, and they take this to include all versions of their signal, but Hoak takes it to mean only the analog signal.

However, am I dreaming or wasn't there some delay in CableOne putting on the local HD feeds in the first place because they needed to get an agreement in place? That part doesn't add up to me.
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post #926 of 1966 Old 01-21-2008, 07:05 PM
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I remember that Puck. They didn't get KVLY/KXJB HD for like 9 months or so, because they had to work out an agreement first. I remember that. We missed out on the olympics while they were negotiating it.
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post #927 of 1966 Old 01-22-2008, 09:15 PM
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I called CableOne about the HD tier because I noticed that Discovery HD Theater, National Geographic HD, and A&E HD showed up on my QAM tuner. I canceled the HD tier when I was told it now consists of just HGTV HD and The Food Network HD. I was told that their GM is working on adding more channels to that HD tier, but (before I could even ask) I was told they don't have a timeframe or know what channels. I'm hoping that moving those 3 channels off the HD tier means something is coming soon. I don't think many people would pay $5/month for just those two channels.

By the way, Disc. HD Theather is at 21.494, Nat. Geo. is at 21.495, and A&E HD is at 66.496.
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post #928 of 1966 Old 01-23-2008, 12:10 PM
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Thanks for the info grover. I agree, $5 for just HGTV-HD & FOOD HD is a bit much. Let's hope they get some deals done soon to add to it. I also hope they can get FSN North HD this year too.
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post #929 of 1966 Old 01-23-2008, 08:36 PM
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Let me ask you guys... why are you still using cable for television? (Cable = expensive, very few HD channels, all of this local channel BS...)

Why not DISH or DirecTV?
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post #930 of 1966 Old 01-23-2008, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunknet View Post

Let me ask you guys... why are you still using cable for television? (Cable = expensive, very few HD channels, all of this local channel BS...)

Why not DISH or DirecTV?

(1) Too many backyard trees for a decent signal;
(2) No ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX in HD....
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