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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Fargo, ND - HDTV
puck71's Avatar puck71 08:39 AM 01-15-2009
Midcontinent put up a press release on their site this week, saying service in Moorhead may be available by June. The relevant quote: "Currently serving over 200 communities throughout the Dakotas and Western Minnesota, Midcontinent Communications received a franchise agreement for the City of Moorhead on December 18, 2008. With plans to extend the network now in place, Midcontinent's cable, phone, Internet, and cable advertising services could be available as early as June 2009 to Moorhead residents and businesses."

I'll believe it when I see it!

phate71's Avatar phate71 12:11 PM 01-19-2009
I`m currently a D****TV subscriber. With the recent loss of KXJB, I m now thinking of putting up outdoor antenna to receive the local HD channels in GF. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to get and/or if anything is even possible to receive a signal? I currently get channels 4 and 11 thru an indoor antenna, but would like to get ABC and Fox. Thanks for any help.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman 08:01 AM 01-20-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by phate71 View Post

I`m currently a D****TV subscriber. With the recent loss of KXJB, I m now thinking of putting up outdoor antenna to receive the local HD channels in GF. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to get and/or if anything is even possible to receive a signal? I currently get channels 4 and 11 thru an indoor antenna, but would like to get ABC and Fox. Thanks for any help.

You won't get ABC or FOX until WDAZ andKBRR do their flash-cut to digital...KBRR says they are going to do it on February 1st, WDAZ is waiting until the last minute. If you put a UHF directional antenna up outside and aim it just NW of Fargo (about 186 degrees from downtown GF), you may get WDAY-DT on channel 21 (it'll be labeled 6-1 ABC, 6-2 CW, 6-3 weather).

Right now with an indoor antenna, here is what you can expect in GF
4(analog) KXJB-CBS
8(analog) WDAZ-ABC
10(analog) KBRR-Fox
11(analog) KVLY-NBC
16-1(digital 16.1) KCGE-PBS-HD
16-2(digital 16.2) KCGE-PBS
16-3(digital 16.3) KCGE-MN Channel
17(analog) 3ABN
38-1(digital 4.1) KXJB CBS
44-1(digital 11.1) KVLY NBC
49(analog) TBN
Replay3030Owner's Avatar Replay3030Owner 08:26 AM 01-20-2009
If you're into DIY, you can build an exceptional directional UHF antenna, tuned to the 14-51 channel range of the post-transition era for about $20 in parts from Menards/HomeDepot/Lowes.

The DIY antenna offers, on average, 5 db greater strength (in other words, 4x the signal gathering level) of commercially availalble UHF-only antennas.

Here's a link with more info: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=96483

And: http://www.jedsoft.org/fun/antennas/dtv/gh.html

They're called "Gray-Hoverman" antennas, and that Canadian forum contains avid antenna geeks modelling every variation of the antenna with software to come up with the best possible signal level across all UHF frequencies.

The copper for the active elements cost about $10, and the PVC for the frame costs about $5, and then some screws and washers and coat hangers (for reflector array) will bring you to about $20.

I've built the older version of this (with about 2.5db less strength, or 1/2 the maximum level that this new one can do) and it definitely blows away the ~$40 UHF/VHF combo antenna that you find at Menards/Fleet Farm, for the UHF band. Even inside the house through a wall, it gets a ~95% signal lock on locals in Fargo vs. about 65-85% for a simple bowtie antenna. (Though it's not the nicest looking thing to have next to your TV of course )
phate71's Avatar phate71 09:03 AM 01-20-2009
Thanks for the suggestions. I wouldn`t have a problem making something, as long as it doesn`t get too crazy. My wife might not care for it! Does anyone know if these omni directional units are any good, ex. Winegard MS-2000? I live on the southend of GF. Thanks for any help.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman 12:09 PM 01-20-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by phate71 View Post

Thanks for the suggestions. I wouldn`t have a problem making something, as long as it doesn`t get too crazy. My wife might not care for it! Does anyone know if these omni directional units are any good, ex. Winegard MS-2000? I live on the southend of GF. Thanks for any help.

If you live on the south end of GF, the omni may work well, you should have a good line of sight to Blanchard, Galesburg (where KVLY and KXJB are), if you go above the tree/roof line in your area, you should be able to get the Amenia transmitters (WDAY and KFME) also. I also would expect no problems receiving KCGE out of Crookston, KBRR's post-transition facility from the same tower as KCGE, WDAZ from Petersberg, and KCPM north of East Grand Forks. THe biggest problem is WDAZ, KBRR, and KFME will be VHF-hi instead of UHF like the rest, and there are transmitters in 4 directions from GF. Here are FCC calculated coverage for the stations, if you are inside the contours, you should be able to receive the signal w/o too much of an antenna:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1249337.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1165361.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT695326.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1236441.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1171831.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1144130.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1232261.html
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS628222.html
dandeson83's Avatar dandeson83 06:28 AM 01-21-2009
I see CableONE has now added Animal Planet HD. Channel 424.
phate71's Avatar phate71 08:20 AM 01-21-2009
Thanks for the help. Very much appreciated. Kind of a noob at this, any idea if a round muti-directional antenna would be any good to pickup from four directions? I`m trying to not have to use one that has to be turned. Thanks again.
bigsav03's Avatar bigsav03 12:27 AM 01-23-2009
I got Midco in West Fargo and just curious if anyone knows when Fox will be available in HD?

Also, have you heard of any other channels coming in HD aside from fox?
puck71's Avatar puck71 02:52 PM 01-23-2009
I live in Moorhead and e-mailed them about whether or not they'd be getting Fox in HD before they launched here, and they basically didn't answer. I would think they would make every effort to get all the locals in HD before trying to directly compete with CableONE in Moorhead, and if they did that it would stand to reason they'd do it in WF too.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs 07:03 PM 01-23-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

You won't get ABC or FOX until WDAZ andKBRR do their flash-cut to digital...KBRR says they are going to do it on February 1st, WDAZ is waiting until the last minute. If you put a UHF directional antenna up outside and aim it just NW of Fargo (about 186 degrees from downtown GF), you may get WDAY-DT on channel 21 (it'll be labeled 6-1 ABC, 6-2 CW, 6-3 weather).

Right now with an indoor antenna, here is what you can expect in GF
4(analog) KXJB-CBS
8(analog) WDAZ-ABC
10(analog) KBRR-Fox
11(analog) KVLY-NBC
16-1(digital 16.1) KCGE-PBS-HD
16-2(digital 16.2) KCGE-PBS
16-3(digital 16.3) KCGE-MN Channel
17(analog) 3ABN
38-1(digital 4.1) KXJB CBS
44-1(digital 11.1) KVLY NBC
49(analog) TBN

The post transition digital channels of WDAZ, KBRR, KCPM and KCGE should be strong enough so if you point your antenna south (for KVLY and KXJB...as well as WDAY and KFME out of Fargo if you're lucky to get them), you still should get a reliable signal. The analog signals of the translators (17, 49) and KBRR are a bit scratchy, though. And the translators (which are religious channels) will still be in analog past 2/17 since they're low power stations.
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske 08:46 PM 01-23-2009
I would urge anybody who has DirectTV or Dish Network to spend $30-50 (if you can) and add an antenna to their roof.

I've noticed some interesting amplified antennas in Fleet Farm that mount to the side of the house. I generally recommend staying away from antennas specifically marketed as "HD", but if it sucks, return it.

Large UHF multidirectional will work the best in Fargo. Fleet Farm or Menards is a good cheap source for antennas.
swensicle's Avatar swensicle 09:25 PM 01-27-2009
I thought I would point out that Dish Network says on their website that they will soon be adding the Fargo market to their HD locals list. Then, everyone can enjoy the best DVR available, tons of HD channels, and local HD's with no antenna crap. Not sure how soon this will happen, but I would imagine that soon would mean within a couple months.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman 01:59 PM 01-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by swensicle View Post

I thought I would point out that Dish Network says on their website that they will soon be adding the Fargo market to their HD locals list. Then, everyone can enjoy the best DVR available, tons of HD channels, and local HD's with no antenna crap. Not sure how soon this will happen, but I would imagine that soon would mean within a couple months.

Might as well put your phone number in there so you can get the commission....If someone had the capital to start such a business, there may be a market for installation of antenna and FTA satellite systems and sell the fact you can get many channels w/o having to pay recurring fees (you could install a decent "hidden" antenna system and Ku-band FTA dish for well less than a years worth of cable/DBS fees), and most of the time they are in better quality than through cable or DBS, as the signals are not re-encoded and over-compressed for re-distribution over tighter bandwidths. The antennas are no more obtrusive, or harder to install than a dish, so don't be talking about "antenna crap".
puck71's Avatar puck71 10:47 PM 01-28-2009
Looks like they just upgraded the CableOne (Motorola) DVR's to the most recent software (75.59 a25p2-2.S1.r-8) and firmware (16.53) versions. A couple changes I noticed right away:

1) When you select a "Live" event to record, it prompts you if you want to add time to the recording, in case it runs long.
2) When programs overlap by just a couple minutes, instead of totally cancelling one of the recordings it will "clip" the lower priority one by a couple minutes but record most of it. For instance if you have two series recordings set for 9-10 pm tomorrow, and one from 8-9:01, previously the lowest priority of the three would not get recorded at all. Now it will just miss the part from 9:00-9:01 of the lowest priority show, but record the rest. Not bad!
3) More details in show descriptions, like the full rating details.
4) Guide "buttons" in the menu screens are smaller, presumably to fit more on the screen at once.

All nice improvements as far as I can tell!
DowntownGF's Avatar DowntownGF 10:28 AM 01-31-2009
Well, it's a grace from God that the Super Bowl is on NBC this year, at least I'll get it in HD in Grand Forks. I've been thinking about dropping Midco HD DVR service, but with some of our OTA locals not DTV/HDTV yet *cough*KBRR*cough*, I guess I'll have to wait. I live on the 4th floor of a downtown GF building and decided to buy a 50 dB UHF antenna, but I was only able to pick up the 3 (KGFE?) Prairie Public stations. LAME! I might try the homemade antenna discussed earlier, but how lame is it that I can't get any locals OTA on the top floor? Also, I noticed that Midco only passes KBRR on the SD channel list in the single digits, but everything else we have is passed through in the 600's if you have a HD DVR box. Anyway, I'll post again in GF when I get back on sunday and see if I can get KBRR's flash-cut signal from my apartment. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

EGFTECHMAN: Any updates on KBRR or WDAZ for Grand Forks for us?
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet 02:03 PM 01-31-2009
DowntownGF: You do realize that Midco has ABC in HD now (and has for a few months now), right?

The only HD channel we are missing in GF is FOX, and that is because of KBRR's crappy management.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs 06:35 PM 01-31-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownGF View Post

Well, it's a grace from God that the Super Bowl is on NBC this year, at least I'll get it in HD in Grand Forks. I've been thinking about dropping Midco HD DVR service, but with some of our OTA locals not DTV/HDTV yet *cough*KBRR*cough*, I guess I'll have to wait. I live on the 4th floor of a downtown GF building and decided to buy a 50 dB UHF antenna, but I was only able to pick up the 3 (KGFE?) Prairie Public stations. LAME! I might try the homemade antenna discussed earlier, but how lame is it that I can't get any locals OTA on the top floor? Also, I noticed that Midco only passes KBRR on the SD channel list in the single digits, but everything else we have is passed through in the 600's if you have a HD DVR box. Anyway, I'll post again in GF when I get back on sunday and see if I can get KBRR's flash-cut signal from my apartment. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

EGFTECHMAN: Any updates on KBRR or WDAZ for Grand Forks for us?

Try moving around your antenna and re-scanning your channels. My second floor TV on rabbit ears gets KXJB (CBS), KVLY (NBC) and KCGE (PBS) in digital, but I have to move the antenna to get a stable signal of KVLY and KXJB (all 3 are in the 90-95% signal range). KVLY and WDAZ get strong analog signals, KXJB and KBRR are bit scratchy OTA in analog (KBRR's DTV signal will be on the KCGE tower near Crookston, which is closer to GF than the Thief River Falls analog TV tower.)

And KBRR (FOX) will be available in HDTV tomorrow over the air (on VHF [not UHF] channel 10). WDAZ (ABC) is on cable but will switch the OTA signal to DTV on Feb 17, and The CW network will be on 8-2. Perhaps they will put Sioux sports on 8-3?

PS: KCPM (MyNetworkTV) is off air again, INCLUDING the cable TV signal.
DowntownGF's Avatar DowntownGF 09:22 PM 01-31-2009
Yeah, I guess now that you mention it, I did notice WDAZ has been in HD for awhile now on our cable box. I also couldn't help but notice during the NFL Playoffs that FOX was a totally worthless channel to watch...

Speaking of KBRR though...I'm really happy they are moving to a tower near Crookston, that should help me get the digital signal, my apartment has a clear exposure to the east and north. So they will be using that tower tomorrow (Feb. 1st)??? Also, will it just be a digital signal in SD or an actual HD broadcast......? I guess I can just wait and see tomorrow. Perhaps I'll post an update....
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet 08:39 PM 02-01-2009
Was it just me or did KVLY (NBC) in Grand Forks on Midcontinent NOT have surround sound working during the Super Bowl? I was getting nothing in my surround speakers (rear right, rear left) the whole game (commercials too). I guess it doesn't matter now because the game is over, but I would still like to know if anyone else noticed.
ckkmav's Avatar ckkmav 09:05 PM 02-01-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunknet View Post

Was it just me or did KVLY (NBC) in Grand Forks on Midcontinent NOT have surround sound working during the Super Bowl? I was getting nothing in my surround speakers (rear right, rear left) the whole game (commercials too). I guess it doesn't matter now because the game is over, but I would still like to know if anyone else noticed.

I have Midco in Mayville, and the surround sound worked just fine.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman 07:31 AM 02-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownGF View Post

Well, it's a grace from God that the Super Bowl is on NBC this year, at least I'll get it in HD in Grand Forks. I've been thinking about dropping Midco HD DVR service, but with some of our OTA locals not DTV/HDTV yet *cough*KBRR*cough*, I guess I'll have to wait. I live on the 4th floor of a downtown GF building and decided to buy a 50 dB UHF antenna, but I was only able to pick up the 3 (KGFE?) Prairie Public stations. LAME! I might try the homemade antenna discussed earlier, but how lame is it that I can't get any locals OTA on the top floor? Also, I noticed that Midco only passes KBRR on the SD channel list in the single digits, but everything else we have is passed through in the 600's if you have a HD DVR box. Anyway, I'll post again in GF when I get back on sunday and see if I can get KBRR's flash-cut signal from my apartment. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

EGFTECHMAN: Any updates on KBRR or WDAZ for Grand Forks for us?

KBRR was suppose to transition yesterday (February 1st). This morning there appears to be no digital or analog signal on channel 10. I wonder if they had trouble firing up the DTV transmitter?
WDAZ has been pretty hushed about their transition. Their filings with the FCC indicate a February 17th transition.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman 07:51 AM 02-02-2009
I think we need to bombard WDAZ with requests to to put the FSSN on 8.3 when there is active programming on FSSN - it can be the storm tracker loop the rest of the time. Since it is available through FTA satellite, I would say that Midco doesn't have any exclusive rights to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogs View Post

Try moving around your antenna and re-scanning your channels. My second floor TV on rabbit ears gets KXJB (CBS), KVLY (NBC) and KCGE (PBS) in digital, but I have to move the antenna to get a stable signal of KVLY and KXJB (all 3 are in the 90-95% signal range). KVLY and WDAZ get strong analog signals, KXJB and KBRR are bit scratchy OTA in analog (KBRR's DTV signal will be on the KCGE tower near Crookston, which is closer to GF than the Thief River Falls analog TV tower.)

And KBRR (FOX) will be available in HDTV tomorrow over the air (on VHF [not UHF] channel 10). WDAZ (ABC) is on cable but will switch the OTA signal to DTV on Feb 17, and The CW network will be on 8-2. Perhaps they will put Sioux sports on 8-3?

PS: KCPM (MyNetworkTV) is off air again, INCLUDING the cable TV signal.


ckkmav's Avatar ckkmav 09:33 AM 02-02-2009
I don't think Midco has exclusive rights to carry FSSN, anyway. Polar Cablevision subscribers up and down the valley also get FSSN. It does seem to make sense to make it available on WDAZ's signal.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs 10:50 AM 02-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

KBRR was suppose to transition yesterday (February 1st). This morning there appears to be no digital or analog signal on channel 10. I wonder if they had trouble firing up the DTV transmitter?
WDAZ has been pretty hushed about their transition. Their filings with the FCC indicate a February 17th transition.

I was thinking it was on my end until checked the TV hooked to cable (Midco) and saw nothing, and later checking the board. KCPM (MyNetworkTV) has no analog, digital, nor cable (fiber optic feed) signal either for the past week.

CableOne in Fargo-Moorhead and Sjoberg in TRF also get FSSN.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs 01:47 PM 02-02-2009
Finally got KBRR-DT in Grand Forks, and they're only passing the SD signal OTA (via KNRR), though it looks pretty good. It doesn't help they're transmitting 0.59kW as I'm getting frequent dropouts, which won't last long as they have an application to increase power to 9kW. And it's back on Midcontinent cable. I know WDAZ will be doing HD because they already send an HD signal to some cable providers, and a person I know working there also said they'll be doing HD along with The CW on 8-2.
corman's Avatar corman 02:10 PM 02-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogs View Post

Finally got KBRR-DT in Grand Forks, and they're only passing the SD signal OTA (via KNRR), though it looks pretty good. It doesn't help they're transmitting 0.59kW as I'm getting frequent dropouts, which won't last long as they have an application to increase power to 9kW. And it's back on Midcontinent cable. I know WDAZ will be doing HD because they already send an HD signal to some cable providers, and a person I know working there also said they'll be doing HD along with The CW on 8-2.

Do we know then when to expect an HD signal OTA or through Midcontinent cable for KBRR?
Steinej's Avatar Steinej 05:45 PM 02-03-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunknet View Post

Was it just me or did KVLY (NBC) in Grand Forks on Midcontinent NOT have surround sound working during the Super Bowl? I was getting nothing in my surround speakers (rear right, rear left) the whole game (commercials too). I guess it doesn't matter now because the game is over, but I would still like to know if anyone else noticed.

I noticed the same thing. In fact, I checked my system to verify all speakers were working. I was listening on Channel 11DT, KVLY in Fargo.
ckkmav's Avatar ckkmav 10:22 AM 02-04-2009
I called Midco today to check when Fox HD would be available, and all they could tell me is we get Fox News and FX. I confirmed that we receive those channels, but what about Fox. They didn't have an answer.
puck71's Avatar puck71 07:04 PM 02-04-2009
Anyone in Moorhead I hope you join me and refuse to switch to Midco until and unless they offer all the locals in HD. It seems very strange they can't work out a deal with KVRR.
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