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Local HDTV Info and Reception

dandeson83's Avatar dandeson83
10:11 AM Liked: 10
post #1381 of 2005
02-05-2009 | Posts: 321
Joined: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

Anyone in Moorhead I hope you join me and refuse to switch to Midco until and unless they offer all the locals in HD. It seems very strange they can't work out a deal with KVRR.

I know I won't consider switching until MidCo get KVRR HD. With the first half of NASCAR and the NFL on FOX, I can't be without that in HD.
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet
11:43 AM Liked: 11
post #1382 of 2005
02-05-2009 | Posts: 391
Joined: Jul 2007
Does anyone know why KBRR is sending a standard definition picture through a digital signal? I mean, where's the HD? Is that going to be another two years?
puck71's Avatar puck71
01:00 PM Liked: 10
post #1383 of 2005
02-05-2009 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunknet View Post

Does anyone know why KBRR is sending a standard definition picture through a digital signal? I mean, where's the HD? Is that going to be another two years?

My guess is money. And who knows how long until they get HD? The DTV cutover just requires digital, it doesn't require HD.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
03:17 PM Liked: 11
post #1384 of 2005
02-05-2009 | Posts: 147
Joined: Apr 2008
A question for people in range KVRR-DT (channel 19 - 15.1) and watch it OTA - are they in HD?
If so, then they are having trouble getting the HD signal on PPTV's relay system - is KNRR-DT or KJRR-DT in HD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

My guess is money. And who knows how long until they get HD? The DTV cutover just requires digital, it doesn't require HD.


dennispap's Avatar dennispap
02:24 PM Liked: 11
post #1385 of 2005
02-06-2009 | Posts: 1,260
Joined: Sep 2006
The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama wants to hear what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/
sdohman@netscape's Avatar sdohman@netscape
07:35 AM Liked: 10
post #1386 of 2005
02-07-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2007
I visited tvfool.com yesterday and according to thier charts it shows kbrr's digital signal on VHF, is this right, I thought everything in digital was on UHF,I hope I'm wrong about this because then I'd have to put up another anttena
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
08:21 AM Liked: 12
post #1387 of 2005
02-07-2009 | Posts: 174
Joined: Dec 2007
It was originally slated to be on UHF, but that facility was never built and the owners opted to switch VHF 10 to digital instead.
sdohman@netscape's Avatar sdohman@netscape
09:47 AM Liked: 10
post #1388 of 2005
02-07-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2007
I live in grand forks will an indoor anttena work
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs
04:28 PM Liked: 10
post #1389 of 2005
02-07-2009 | Posts: 33
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdohman@netscape View Post

I live in grand forks will an indoor anttena work

Well KBRR is on flea power (0.59 kilowatts), so probably not. But it will be upgrading to almost 10 kilowatts whenever the FCC acts on the application, so once it's upgraded you should be able to. My HDTV on the first floor that's hooked up to a rooftop antenna pointing south (for KVLY, KXJB and WDAY - KBRR's tower is east on KCGE-DT 16/PBS's tower north of Crookston) gets a good SD picture, that's not letterboxed nor windowboxed, with a 70 out of 100. My upstairs SDTV hooked up to rabbit ears gets frequent dropouts after moving the antenna (it doesn't have a signal meter like the HDTV). And KCGE is has three channels (16-1 PBS HD, 16-2 PBS SD, 16-3 Minnesota Channel) with a perfect signal (100% signal on the HD) on both TV's.

Jon, WDAZ will flash-cut on 2/17 with ABC HD on 8-1 and The CW on 8-2. And is there any chance that KVRR's satellite stations will be going HDTV anytime soon as I anticipated?
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet
05:01 PM Liked: 11
post #1390 of 2005
02-09-2009 | Posts: 391
Joined: Jul 2007
Still no KBRR HD?
puck71's Avatar puck71
03:05 PM Liked: 10
post #1391 of 2005
02-10-2009 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
I got a flyer in the mail from Midco yesterday saying they were coming soon, or something along those lines. No dates or any new details were mentioned though. From watching their commercials it looks like they use the same brand of DVR's that CableOne does, so that'll be nice.
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske
09:10 PM Liked: 10
post #1392 of 2005
02-10-2009 | Posts: 110
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steinej View Post

I noticed the same thing. In fact, I checked my system to verify all speakers were working. I was listening on Channel 11DT, KVLY in Fargo.

KVLY is currently broadcasting in 3.0 (LCR). According to Doug Jensen at KVLY, "NBC recently upgraded our distribution. They don't supply the metadata to run 5.1 Dolby. When that happens, it defaults to 3/0. Hopefully, they will get that corrected in the coming months."

I hope as well. When 3.0 is sent, my receiver won't engage anymore processing. It would be better if they sent the 2.0 since the surround channel would be mixed in.
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske
04:58 PM Liked: 10
post #1393 of 2005
02-16-2009 | Posts: 110
Joined: Jan 2003
Great link on positioning your antenna for optimal DTV reception.

http://arstechnica.com/media/news/20...itch-looms.ars
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs
11:42 PM Liked: 10
post #1394 of 2005
02-17-2009 | Posts: 33
Joined: Nov 2008
I just checked out WDAZ's digital signal and had no problems with it. It has a 93% signal strength on my HDTV (hooked on to a rooftop antenna pointing south for KVLY/KXJB) and my SD upstairs (on rabbit ears) gets it fine.

8-1 ABC (HD when programming is available)
8-2 The CW
8-3 Storm Tracker Radar Loop with 970 AM WDAY Radio audio (bandwidth limited)

Now only if the FCC would approve KBRR's application to increase power so we can actually get it in GF without moving within 2 blocks of its tower.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
10:15 AM Liked: 11
post #1395 of 2005
02-18-2009 | Posts: 147
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogs View Post

I just checked out WDAZ's digital signal and had no problems with it. It has a 93% signal strength on my HDTV (hooked on to a rooftop antenna pointing south for KVLY/KXJB) and my SD upstairs (on rabbit ears) gets it fine.

8-1 ABC (HD when programming is available)
8-2 The CW
8-3 Storm Tracker Radar Loop with 970 AM WDAY Radio audio (bandwidth limited)

Now only if the FCC would approve KBRR's application to increase power so we can actually get it in GF without moving within 2 blocks of its tower.

I think it is Canada keeping channel 10 from putting out more power than the lights on the tower. Same thing for KNRR's conversion. Maybe Hoak should lease out a subchannel to Red River Broadcasting until they get full post transition signals in order in the Northern Valley. I was hoping after channel 11 went off the air, the noise floor would decrease around channel 10 and there would be fewer dropouts, but no improvement.

I was watching WDAZ when they did the conversion, no sign-off/sign-on messages, just cut off an infomercial, and came back on during Jimmy Kimmel...They shut off a couple of times in the first hour...No PSIP data coming through yet for program guides...Also on 8-3, there is multiple audio channels, you can also get WDAY-TV audio by going to the additional audio (MTS button on many TVs). I think we need to convince them to put FSSN on 8-3 when there are televised games.

I haven't seen KGFE-DT sign on yet, and KCPM is still in analog. I haven't been able to receive KFME-DT on channel 13 yet either (and I might not be able to in East Grand Forks,.... I used to get a watchable analog signal from them, although it was noisy).
buzzrunner's Avatar buzzrunner
09:56 AM Liked: 10
post #1396 of 2005
02-19-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2008
Is anyone else having problems picking up WDAZ's signal? I am 20 miles southwest of GF and according to tvfool and antennaweb I should be able to pick it up but haven't been able to after scanning multiple times yesterday and today. I have indoor rabbit ears that I have adjusted but just can't pick anything up. Right now I'm picking up 4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 11, 16.1, 16.2, and 16.3. I just find it odd that I can pick up WDAY but not WDAZ when both antennaweb and tvfool list WDAZ as having a stronger signal than WDAY for my location.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs
03:12 PM Liked: 10
post #1397 of 2005
02-19-2009 | Posts: 33
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzrunner View Post

Is anyone else having problems picking up WDAZ's signal? I am 20 miles southwest of GF and according to tvfool and antennaweb I should be able to pick it up but haven't been able to after scanning multiple times yesterday and today. I have indoor rabbit ears that I have adjusted but just can't pick anything up. Right now I'm picking up 4, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 11, 16.1, 16.2, and 16.3. I just find it odd that I can pick up WDAY but not WDAZ when both antennaweb and tvfool list WDAZ as having a stronger signal than WDAY for my location.


WDAZ is on VHF and the rest are on UHF, remapping to the analog/NTSC channels through PSIP. VHF channels (especially 2-6) are more receptible to interference. Also, you should be able to get KFME-DT (13.1, 13.2 and 13.3) from your location since that's also VHF.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
09:28 AM Liked: 11
post #1398 of 2005
02-20-2009 | Posts: 147
Joined: Apr 2008
In East Grand Forks, WDAZ-DT8 is very stable...I'm only 10 miles from KBRR-DT10, and can't get a stable signal from them. What type of antenna are you trying to use. Like hotdogs said, WDAZ, KFME, KBRR are all the only ones in the area on VHF, everyone else is UHF (KVRR 19, WDAY 21, KXJB 38, KVLY 44), so if your antenna doesn't have elements that are ~18" (1/4 wavelength at 170 MHz) long, it probably wont receive VHF well. There is the spectrum available in the area where all broadcasters could have went UHF for post transition, and made the antenna issue for viewers much easier. My experience is the increased power allowed, better penetration (smaller wavelengths get through smaller holes), and increased antenna gain for a given area on UHF trump the lower atmospheric losses of VHF-hi and are much better suited for ATSC tranmission. VHF-lo is "out of core" for TV stations now, but the FCC is making a few exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogs View Post

WDAZ is on VHF and the rest are on UHF, remapping to the analog/NTSC channels through PSIP. VHF channels (especially 2-6) are more receptible to interference. Also, you should be able to get KFME-DT (13.1, 13.2 and 13.3) from your location since that's also VHF.


Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA
11:09 AM Liked: 67
post #1399 of 2005
02-20-2009 | Posts: 14,468
Joined: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

VHF-lo is "out of core" for TV stations now, but the FCC is making a few exceptions.

Low-VHF is still considered to be "in-core" but most stations fled it like the plague because of how difficult it is to receive digital signals on those frequencies.

- Trip
buzzrunner's Avatar buzzrunner
03:19 PM Liked: 10
post #1400 of 2005
02-20-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

In East Grand Forks, WDAZ-DT8 is very stable...I'm only 10 miles from KBRR-DT10, and can't get a stable signal from them. What type of antenna are you trying to use. Like hotdogs said, WDAZ, KFME, KBRR are all the only ones in the area on VHF, everyone else is UHF (KVRR 19, WDAY 21, KXJB 38, KVLY 44), so if your antenna doesn't have elements that are ~18" (1/4 wavelength at 170 MHz) long, it probably wont receive VHF well. There is the spectrum available in the area where all broadcasters could have went UHF for post transition, and made the antenna issue for viewers much easier. My experience is the increased power allowed, better penetration (smaller wavelengths get through smaller holes), and increased antenna gain for a given area on UHF trump the lower atmospheric losses of VHF-hi and are much better suited for ATSC tranmission. VHF-lo is "out of core" for TV stations now, but the FCC is making a few exceptions.

I'm using the RCA ANT 1450

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...cid=2876174465

Supposedly this should work for both VHF and UHF but apparently I'm having problems picking up the VHF signal because I'm missing both WDAZ and KFME. Even when KBRR goes full power digital I'll probably have problems there. I'm guessing I need an outdoor antenna that'll pick up both UHF and VHF.
hotdogs's Avatar hotdogs
06:17 PM Liked: 10
post #1401 of 2005
02-20-2009 | Posts: 33
Joined: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzrunner View Post

I'm using the RCA ANT 1450

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...cid=2876174465

Supposedly this should work for both VHF and UHF but apparently I'm having problems picking up the VHF signal because I'm missing both WDAZ and KFME. Even when KBRR goes full power digital I'll probably have problems there. I'm guessing I need an outdoor antenna that'll pick up both UHF and VHF.

As techman said, it's probably your antenna causing problems.

My SDTV on the 2nd floor is using rabbit ears I bought for $8 from Wal-Mart since I'm too lazy to hook it up to the rooftop antenna, and I get stable signals of KXJB/CBS 4, WDAZ/ABC 8, KVLY/NBC 11 and KCGE/PBS 16 fine. (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1171058630499 - though the price has gone up since then)

My HDTV on the first floor is on a rooftop antenna pointing south and i get KXJB/CBS 4, WDAZ/ABC 8, KVLY/NBC 11 and KCGE/PBS 16 fine, as well as KBRR 10 with dropouts, and occasionally WDAY/ABC 6 and KFME/PBS 13 (I finally got it yesterday).

I'm in the south end of Grand Forks with regular Midco cable (not digital cable) so I use OTA to watch HDTV broadcasts on the networks. WDAZ, KXJB and KVLY's towers are about 45 miles from my house, KCGE and KBRR's are about 20 miles, and KFME and WDAY's are about 65 miles.
sdohman@netscape's Avatar sdohman@netscape
06:36 PM Liked: 10
post #1402 of 2005
02-24-2009 | Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2007
well I just looked at the fcc website for kbrr's digital application and it looks like they won't be done with construction on thier new digital attenna until march 31,2009. I'd put a link up to the application page but I don't know how.
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet
07:31 PM Liked: 11
post #1403 of 2005
03-05-2009 | Posts: 391
Joined: Jul 2007
KVLY is airing High School Girls Basketball over NBC Primetime (The Office, 30 Rock)? That's cool.
puck71's Avatar puck71
01:41 PM Liked: 10
post #1404 of 2005
03-06-2009 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
KVLY always broadcasts all the state tournaments live. If there were new primetime shows that night, they are very good about running them after the latenight programming (i.e starting at 1:00am after Carson, assuming the tournament games ended on time and the news starting at 10pm).

So last night My Name is Earl was scheduled for 1:00, The Office for 1:30, etc. I'm not sure if 30 Rock was new last night, if it was it was probably scheduled for 2am. My DVR picked up the new times automatically, but I padded the recording times by quite a bit in case the games went long, pushing everything back.
peterbilt's Avatar peterbilt
07:14 AM Liked: 10
post #1405 of 2005
03-07-2009 | Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 2004
Unfortunately, it looks like the guide information was incorrect. When I started to watch The Office, it was actually 30 Rock. My Name is Earl, though, appears to have recorded correctly.

It seems that this is a prime example of the benefits of digital transmission. Run both at the same time. Problem solved.
Brian Glaeske's Avatar Brian Glaeske
07:48 AM Liked: 10
post #1406 of 2005
03-07-2009 | Posts: 110
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterbilt View Post

It seems that this is a prime example of the benefits of digital transmission. Run both at the same time. Problem solved.

Great idea. You should send this idea to Charley Johnson.

When they timeshift this programming, they record on some ancient tape based system. Anyone want to chip in to buy KVLY a TiVo HD so they record in HD and rebroadcast.
kerplunknet's Avatar kerplunknet
04:37 AM Liked: 11
post #1407 of 2005
03-08-2009 | Posts: 391
Joined: Jul 2007
I should probably call Midco and ask, but maybe you guys can tell me... is Midco offered everywhere in Fargo now? Or is it still predominantly CableOne? I might have to move from Grand Forks to Fargo and I definitely do not want CableOne.
dubldare's Avatar dubldare
07:49 PM Liked: 10
post #1408 of 2005
03-08-2009 | Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 2006
Anyone catch the news spot for Fox 21 (Duluth) during Family Guy on 475? Wonder what that's all about?
puck71's Avatar puck71
09:12 PM Liked: 10
post #1409 of 2005
03-09-2009 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterbilt View Post

Unfortunately, it looks like the guide information was incorrect. When I started to watch The Office, it was actually 30 Rock. My Name is Earl, though, appears to have recorded correctly.

Hmm, I have my DVR set for Earl and Office, and it recorded them both fine. I didn't see 30 Rock at all; Poker After Dark started right after The Office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerplunknet View Post

I should probably call Midco and ask, but maybe you guys can tell me... is Midco offered everywhere in Fargo now? Or is it still predominantly CableOne? I might have to move from Grand Forks to Fargo and I definitely do not want CableOne.

Midco is offered nowhere in Fargo (as far as I know). It's offered in West Fargo, Horace, and other smaller cities surrounding Fargo, but not in Fargo itself. Fargo = CableOne at this point, pretty much. Midco is launching in Moorhead at some point - they've said sometime this summer, but we'll see.
starbird80's Avatar starbird80
04:28 PM Liked: 10
post #1410 of 2005
03-10-2009 | Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubldare View Post

Anyone catch the news spot for Fox 21 (Duluth) during Family Guy on 475? Wonder what that's all about?

KQDS-TV (Fox Duluth) is also owned by Red River Broadcasting and shares master control in Fargo. This is either a switching error, or a mistake entering codes into the playlist for the video server.

(Former master control op - been there, done that.)

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