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Local HDTV Info and Reception

puck71's Avatar puck71
02:04 PM Liked: 10
post #1681 of 2014
05-18-2010 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by adkinsjm View Post

Sunday Ticket won't let you see the Vikes in HD. It would be blacked out.

Why would it be blacked out? From what I've read Sunday Ticket follows the same blackout rules as regular NFL broadcasts. Meaning if it's blacked out on FOX/CBS it's blacked out on Sunday Ticket. But if you get it on your FOX/CBS affiliate then you get it on Sunday Ticket.

Is it because they don't have your affiliate in HD so you can't get the Sunday Ticket in HD (but still can in SD)? If so that's not really a blackout, in my opinion. A blackout is dictated by the NFL - this is dictated by DirecTV.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
10:13 AM Liked: 11
post #1682 of 2014
05-19-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

Why would it be blacked out? From what I've read Sunday Ticket follows the same blackout rules as regular NFL broadcasts. Meaning if it's blacked out on FOX/CBS it's blacked out on Sunday Ticket. But if you get it on your FOX/CBS affiliate then you get it on Sunday Ticket.

Is it because they don't have your affiliate in HD so you can't get the Sunday Ticket in HD (but still can in SD)? If so that's not really a blackout, in my opinion. A blackout is dictated by the NFL - this is dictated by DirecTV.

I just noticed this morning...KBRR is now broadcasting in 720p!
Avder's Avatar Avder
07:24 PM Liked: 10
post #1683 of 2014
05-19-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

Why would it be blacked out? From what I've read Sunday Ticket follows the same blackout rules as regular NFL broadcasts. Meaning if it's blacked out on FOX/CBS it's blacked out on Sunday Ticket. But if you get it on your FOX/CBS affiliate then you get it on Sunday Ticket.

Is it because they don't have your affiliate in HD so you can't get the Sunday Ticket in HD (but still can in SD)? If so that's not really a blackout, in my opinion. A blackout is dictated by the NFL - this is dictated by DirecTV.

It would be blacked out on Sunday Ticket because any game that is available through a local affiliate is blacked out on Sunday Ticket as you are supposed to watch the games that are available locally over local stations. Namely, the Vikes show up on KVRR or KXJB and the corresponding feed on Sunday Ticket gets blacked out accordingly.

I am personally very pissed off that DirecTV is passing over Fargo for HD locals. I'm a big sports fan, and I signed up for DirecTV because of all the sports in HD. When football season comes around that means I need CBS, Fox, and NBC in HD. I can get Fox over an antenna just fine, but KXJB and KVLY reception with an indoor antenna is spotty at best and I'm not sure if my landlord (I live in a duplex) is going to let me put up a rooftop antenna after all.

I'm also peeved that we cant even get CW in HD even with an antenna. And dont get me started on MyNetworkTV. It's like we're still in the Dark Ages here.
puck71's Avatar puck71
04:00 PM Liked: 10
post #1684 of 2014
05-21-2010 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

I'm not sure if my landlord (I live in a duplex) is going to let me put up a rooftop antenna after all.

Legally, he/she has no right to stop you.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
12:47 PM Liked: 11
post #1685 of 2014
05-24-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

I just noticed this morning...KBRR is now broadcasting in 720p!

KBRR is broadcasting a 720p canvas, but all of the programming is in 480...We get to see Fox prime time letterboxed and sidebars. An unzoomed image will only fill the "middle half" of the screen during primetime programming.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
03:04 PM Liked: 11
post #1686 of 2014
05-24-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

It would be blacked out on Sunday Ticket because any game that is available through a local affiliate is blacked out on Sunday Ticket as you are supposed to watch the games that are available locally over local stations. Namely, the Vikes show up on KVRR or KXJB and the corresponding feed on Sunday Ticket gets blacked out accordingly.

I am personally very pissed off that DirecTV is passing over Fargo for HD locals. I'm a big sports fan, and I signed up for DirecTV because of all the sports in HD. When football season comes around that means I need CBS, Fox, and NBC in HD. I can get Fox over an antenna just fine, but KXJB and KVLY reception with an indoor antenna is spotty at best and I'm not sure if my landlord (I live in a duplex) is going to let me put up a rooftop antenna after all.

I'm also peeved that we cant even get CW in HD even with an antenna. And dont get me started on MyNetworkTV. It's like we're still in the Dark Ages here.

Just curious, what is worth watching on My Network? :-) (joking)
The local My Network affiliate KCPM-27 went dark during the digital conversion and hasn't been back since. I think they should work out an agreement to run a secondary channel on the K*RRs, share the transmitter operation costs, since they seen financially challenged also...
urnote96's Avatar urnote96
07:27 PM Liked: 10
post #1687 of 2014
05-25-2010 | Posts: 26
Joined: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

It would be blacked out on Sunday Ticket because any game that is available through a local affiliate is blacked out on Sunday Ticket as you are supposed to watch the games that are available locally over local stations. Namely, the Vikes show up on KVRR or KXJB and the corresponding feed on Sunday Ticket gets blacked out accordingly.

I am personally very pissed off that DirecTV is passing over Fargo for HD locals. I'm a big sports fan, and I signed up for DirecTV because of all the sports in HD. When football season comes around that means I need CBS, Fox, and NBC in HD. I can get Fox over an antenna just fine, but KXJB and KVLY reception with an indoor antenna is spotty at best and I'm not sure if my landlord (I live in a duplex) is going to let me put up a rooftop antenna after all.

I'm also peeved that we cant even get CW in HD even with an antenna. And dont get me started on MyNetworkTV. It's like we're still in the Dark Ages here.


i hate to say it but you can watch all the VIKINGS games in HD on sunday ticket with super fan.
valvashon's Avatar valvashon
09:32 AM Liked: 10
post #1688 of 2014
05-26-2010 | Posts: 40
Joined: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorFlik View Post

Short and to the point, I can't disclose the specifics on what has been going on here. However I will say that a lot of extreme disorganization, bad planning, and a project being led by the wrong person have severely delayed things from happening. I will say that all the new equipment is in but there have been an unbelievable amount of system problems. At this point I believe most of the problems have been worked out but as of right now it is not ready to go.

When it finally happens, it'll happen. Right now we're barely hanging on by a thread to even be on the air.

Hmmm- 25 years since I was sacked and things are still pretty much the same there. I guess I wasn't the reason things weren't going so well when we first moved into the new studios. News flash: writing up discrepancies isn't the same thing as causing discrepancies. Still, it has to be better than the studios on Main Avenue.

Val
Avder's Avatar Avder
10:29 AM Liked: 10
post #1689 of 2014
05-26-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

Just curious, what is worth watching on My Network? :-) (joking)
The local My Network affiliate KCPM-27 went dark during the digital conversion and hasn't been back since. I think they should work out an agreement to run a secondary channel on the K*RRs, share the transmitter operation costs, since they seen financially challenged also...

The MSHSL Hockey Tournament. I miss watching that.
adkinsjm's Avatar adkinsjm
07:07 PM Liked: 10
post #1690 of 2014
05-27-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by urnote96 View Post

i hate to say it but you can watch all the VIKINGS games in HD on sunday ticket with super fan.

How so, since they would be blacked out in Fargo.
drewman21's Avatar drewman21
07:32 PM Liked: 10
post #1691 of 2014
05-27-2010 | Posts: 154
Joined: Oct 2006
The old KVRR was the best. 2 words say it all for 15 year old kids on a Friday night eating pizza and soda in the basement just hanging out watching TV having a good time.

Madd Frank.

I miss those days
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
11:25 PM Liked: 11
post #1692 of 2014
05-28-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewman21 View Post

The old KVRR was the best. 2 words say it all for 15 year old kids on a Friday night eating pizza and soda in the basement just hanging out watching TV having a good time.

Madd Frank.

I miss those days

Madd Frank, Dewey's movie, North Stars Hockey, Twins Baseball, EDC basketball tourneys, Music videos from the "odyssey" (IIRC) network, nightly 'b' movies.... "Let us entertain you" era during the mid-late 80's was the peak of KVNJ/KVRR,,,
Avder's Avatar Avder
03:50 AM Liked: 10
post #1693 of 2014
05-29-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
Remember how they gave out free bowtie antennas so you could watch them? They made a big deal about it then.

Makes me wish KVRR had their tower in the same place as everyone else so I could use a reflector with my multi-bay antenna.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
10:13 PM Liked: 11
post #1694 of 2014
05-30-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

Remember how they gave out free bowtie antennas so you could watch them? They made a big deal about it then.

Makes me wish KVRR had their tower in the same place as everyone else so I could use a reflector with my multi-bay antenna.

By doing a subchannel swap, someone like KXJB could go on KVRRs signal and add good coverage of Detroit Lakes, Wahpeton, and Fergus Falls (and most lake places frequented by Fargoans). KVRR on something like KXJB's signal would allow coverage to antennas pointed only one direction, and also give decent coverage to places like Valley City, Cooperstown, Mayville and Hillsboro.

Anyway just an off the wall thought I had....
Avder's Avatar Avder
10:26 PM Liked: 10
post #1695 of 2014
05-30-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

By doing a subchannel swap, someone like KXJB could go on KVRRs signal and add good coverage of Detroit Lakes, Wahpeton, and Fergus Falls (and most lake places frequented by Fargoans). KVRR on something like KXJB's signal would allow coverage to antennas pointed only one direction, and also give decent coverage to places like Valley City, Cooperstown, Mayville and Hillsboro.

Anyway just an off the wall thought I had....

Yes, if KVRR was in the same place as everyone else I could just get a standard aerial antenna like everyone in town already had rather than needing either a dual antenna setup or a naturally bi-directional antenna like a 4-bay bowtie without reflector or a gray-hoverman like I'm looking at.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
01:06 PM Liked: 11
post #1696 of 2014
05-31-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

Yes, if KVRR was in the same place as everyone else I could just get a standard aerial antenna like everyone in town already had rather than needing either a dual antenna setup or a naturally bi-directional antenna like a 4-bay bowtie without reflector or a gray-hoverman like I'm looking at.

Fortunately for most of the populous is the Fargo area, the tower locations are almost 180 degrees apart from each other, so a reflectorless antenna will work in both directions.

Here in Grand Forks, we have signals coming at 289 degrees (8), 75 degrees (10, 16, 15), 200 degrees (38, 44), and 0 degrees (27, if it ever comes back on the air) - which makes the antenna systems a little more difficult.
Avder's Avatar Avder
02:44 PM Liked: 10
post #1697 of 2014
05-31-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

Fortunately for most of the populous is the Fargo area, the tower locations are almost 180 degrees apart from each other, so a reflectorless antenna will work in both directions.

Here in Grand Forks, we have signals coming at 289 degrees (8), 75 degrees (10, 16, 15), 200 degrees (38, 44), and 0 degrees (27, if it ever comes back on the air) - which makes the antenna systems a little more difficult.

So KCPM doesn't even have a signal on the air in Grand Forks?
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
03:16 PM Liked: 11
post #1698 of 2014
05-31-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post

So KCPM doesn't even have a signal on the air in Grand Forks?

They went dark a year ago on the transition date, and haven't been back since.
puck71's Avatar puck71
12:31 PM Liked: 10
post #1699 of 2014
06-01-2010 | Posts: 450
Joined: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by egftechman View Post

By doing a subchannel swap, someone like KXJB could go on KVRRs signal and add good coverage of Detroit Lakes, Wahpeton, and Fergus Falls (and most lake places frequented by Fargoans).

That would be a cool idea if they could make it happen. I know at our lake we can get KVRR but none of the other locals. We also get KCCO.
Avder's Avatar Avder
10:51 PM Liked: 10
post #1700 of 2014
06-04-2010 | Posts: 48
Joined: Feb 2010
We've been passed over again by DirecTV. Theyve released an updated list including more HD markets that they are going to launch that goes into 2011, and Fargo is nowhere on it.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
08:04 AM Liked: 11
post #1701 of 2014
06-15-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Grand Forks area OTA viewers....Rescan your tuners, KCPM-27 is back on the air, just in time for the Wild and MN High School Tournament season to be over with... Hopefully they can get enough viewership and ad revenue to remain on the air..
Jon Ellis's Avatar Jon Ellis
09:55 PM Liked: 12
post #1702 of 2014
06-15-2010 | Posts: 174
Joined: Dec 2007
Wow, my timing's bad there! I was just in the Grand Forks area Saturday and didn't see 27!
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
10:11 AM Liked: 11
post #1703 of 2014
06-16-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Ellis View Post

Wow, my timing's bad there! I was just in the Grand Forks area Saturday and didn't see 27!

I've been checking it every day since they applied for a STA to come back on the air at a lower HAAT, hoping to catch test signals and other rare events and didn't notice until Monday night, so you just did miss it...

I'm guessing anyone outside of the Fisher, Thompson, Emerado, Alvarado box wont get much, since their antenna height is only about 150 feet, from Midcontinent Cable's tower just north of East Grand Forks...I'm assuming they are leasing fiber space from Midco to get from their master control in Sioux Falls to the transmitter..
philoyboy's Avatar philoyboy
06:04 PM Liked: 10
post #1704 of 2014
06-19-2010 | Posts: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
Hi,

I'm in North Fargo (12th Ave N and 3rd ST N). I have a roof top mounted DB4 antenna pointed NW. I can grab everything, but reception for KXJB is the poorest. What bothers me is that KVLY has great reception on both of my TV's (probably 80% but good enough) but KXJB is about 60% and that is about the lowest it goes before cutting out. I do have some tall trees to contend with but I can get KVRR too (about 70-80%).

Aren't KXJB and KVLY really close on the UHF band (like 38 and 44)?

What can I do to improve KXJB?
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
07:56 AM Liked: 11
post #1705 of 2014
06-22-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by philoyboy View Post

Hi,

I'm in North Fargo (12th Ave N and 3rd ST N). I have a roof top mounted DB4 antenna pointed NW. I can grab everything, but reception for KXJB is the poorest. What bothers me is that KVLY has great reception on both of my TV's (probably 80% but good enough) but KXJB is about 60% and that is about the lowest it goes before cutting out. I do have some tall trees to contend with but I can get KVRR too (about 70-80%).

Aren't KXJB and KVLY really close on the UHF band (like 38 and 44)?

What can I do to improve KXJB?

You could try repositioning your antenna, both mast location and direction and see if you get different results, I'm thinking you may have a multipath issue (where a signal reflects off something and arrives at your antenna at a different time than the main signal - which would have caused ghosting in analog TV) or an interfering signal (from a computer, radio/tv set, etc - which would have been seen as "herringbone" interference in analog tv)...Many of the signal strength meters in DTV equipment are based on packet errors, and not necessarily actual RF strength (which might be quite high). Also ATSC/8VSB doesn't like varying signal strengths, so if there is a lot of vegetation blowing back and forth in the wind, that would also be killing your signal.
philoyboy's Avatar philoyboy
03:03 PM Liked: 10
post #1706 of 2014
06-27-2010 | Posts: 4
Joined: Jun 2010
Hi,

After observing the weather and when the wind makes the surrounding trees sway, that is when KXJB is at it's worst (multipath as you were saying). So do I get an additional antenna then or should I try making the antenna higher? I would only try maybe 5' or 10' max even though the trees make that attempt look futile.

I am considering this antenna: http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...n_antenna.html

This would be pointed at either KVRR or KXJB and I would point the DB4 in the opposite direction.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
07:40 AM Liked: 11
post #1707 of 2014
06-29-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by philoyboy View Post

Hi,

After observing the weather and when the wind makes the surrounding trees sway, that is when KXJB is at it's worst (multipath as you were saying). So do I get an additional antenna then or should I try making the antenna higher? I would only try maybe 5' or 10' max even though the trees make that attempt look futile.

I am considering this antenna: http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...n_antenna.html

This would be pointed at either KVRR or KXJB and I would point the DB4 in the opposite direction.

Try moving the antenna to different spots horizontally also - 6 inches to a foot can make a difference for multipath.
DTV reception issues are a little more difficult to pinpoint, as you don't get the symptomatic feedback (such as herringbone, ghosting, white streaks, etc.) you got in analog TV without RF test equipment.
egftechman's Avatar egftechman
02:04 PM Liked: 11
post #1708 of 2014
07-08-2010 | Posts: 153
Joined: Apr 2008
Anyone on the "inside" know if any of the local broadcasters are considering adding RTN as a subchannel?
It would be a good addition to the OTA lineup in the area, not sure how much revenue it could generate for a broadcaster, but I assume it would run fully automated, and wouldn't require much expense from the local broadcaster.
wayupnorththen's Avatar wayupnorththen
06:00 AM Liked: 10
post #1709 of 2014
07-09-2010 | Posts: 21
Joined: Nov 2009
We're at mid summer. We all know that MLB playoffs and an awesome Vikings season are right around the corner. Are we ANY closer to getting the HD signal up here in the north valley through KBRR???

I think we were told "it's really close" most of last year, and it's still not on.
bradhasbrouck's Avatar bradhasbrouck
10:10 AM Liked: 10
post #1710 of 2014
07-11-2010 | Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 2006
Is there any chance KVRR/KNRR/KBRR/KJRR could add Retro Television network on its digital subchannel anytime soon?

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