Fargo, ND - HDTV - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 2235 Old 10-10-2005, 06:10 AM
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Here is this weeks HD sports guide for Fargo/Moorhead. For you Gopher fans, looks like the Wisconsin/Minnesota game is in HD on ESPN Saturday.


Mon 10th:


Tue 11th:


Wed 12th:


Thu 13th:
ESPN-HD , 6:30pm, College Football Clemson @ North Carolina State (CableOne, DirecTV, Dish)
HDNet , 9pm , NHL Hockey Nashville Predators @ Phoenix Coyotes (DirecTV, Dish)


Fri 14th:
ESPN-HD , 7pm , College Football UTEP @ Tulane (CableOne, DirecTV, Dish)
TNT-HD , 7pm , NASCAR Busch Series Racing @ Charlotte (CableOne, Dish)


Sat 15th:
ESPN-HD , 11am , College Football Wisconsin @ Minnesota (CableOne, DirecTV, Dish)
KVLY-DT , 2:30pm , College Football USC @ Notre Dame (OTA)
KVLY-DT , 6pm , NASCAR Nextel Cup Racing @ Charlotte (OTA)
ESPN2-HD , 6:15pm, College Football TBA (DTV)
HDNet , 6:30pm , NHL Hockey Tampa Bay Lightning @ Pittsburgh Penguins (DirecTV, Dish)
ESPN-HD , 6:45pm, College Football Florida State @ Virginia (CableOne, DTV, Dish)
HDNet , 10:30pm , NASCAR Grand National Division @ Mesa Marin Speedway (DirecTV, Dish)


Sun 16th:
ESPN-HD , 7:30pm , NFL Football Houston @ Seattle (CableOne, DTV, Dish)
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post #242 of 2235 Old 10-11-2005, 11:21 AM
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On the positive side, NBC primetime looked great last night in HD! I watched most of all 3 shows and (unlike last night) the whole night went without a hitch. "Las Vegas" looked a little pixelated at times, but other parts of it were absolutely stunning, so I blame that on how they filmed some scenes.

Hopefully the other networks will pick up the pace - I'm watching more NBC shows now because they're in HD!
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post #243 of 2235 Old 10-13-2005, 04:13 PM
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I just got an email from Charley Johnson and he says that KXJB should be up by Nov 1st unless there is problems
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post #244 of 2235 Old 10-14-2005, 09:18 AM
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Great news! I watch a lot of CBS primetime, not to mention NFL on Sundays, so it'll be great to get that in HD! I'll scan on my tuner periodically to see if I can pick up anything.
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post #245 of 2235 Old 10-16-2005, 09:08 PM
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KVRR will continue with its current format (some 480p) until at least next summer when they plan on sending out their signal from the Rollag tower.

As far as cable1, all I can say is: bandwidth!! A standard analog channel uses 6 Mhz, guess how much an HD channel uses? If you think they are gonna upgrade their entire plant to offer a bunch of HD channels in the near future, keep on wishing! How about carrier to noise ratio? What do you think happens to your signal after it passes through 10 amplifiers and 2 line extenders before it reaches your tap. And did the installer replace the rg-59 cable, or just leave it.

Dew yourself a favor and get a dish. Don't be afraid to let go of that cable modem in place of DSL or a wireless service. GoMoorhead is offering 1Meg up & down for $19.95 a month. Ideaone is rolling out a licensed 700 Mhz wireless service to the entire F-M area. It is nice to see some competition to the monopoly they have had for some time.

Call Scott Geston and ask him when you will be able to get almost every NFL game in HD on sundays. I know I have been enjoying it for 2 years now on DirecTv.

I installed Charlie Johnson's satellite several years ago. I will call him and see what the real deal is with NBC in HD on cable1 is.

Happy viewing!!
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post #246 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim@acetv View Post

As far as cable1, all I can say is: bandwidth!! A standard analog channel uses 6 Mhz, guess how much an HD channel uses?

About 2-3 MHz, since analog channels are uncompressed, and digital signals (including HD) are compressed and modulated along the way so they can fit more channels into a single 6-MHz chunk. I'm still working out all the numbers regarding how much bandwidth CableOne may or may not have left, but amazingly enough, ESPN-HD uses up less cable bandwidth than regular ESPN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim@acetv View Post

Don't be afraid to let go of that cable modem in place of DSL or a wireless service. GoMoorhead is offering 1Meg up & down for $19.95 a month.

I don't want to spin too far off topic, but I'm a little apprehensive about going GoMoorhead, mainly because you can apparently only be connected for a day at a time before you get disconnected and need to sign on again. Most of the time this wouldn't be a huge deal for me, but there are times when I'm gone for the weekend but I want to stay signed on to AIM and stuff like that while I'm gone...I'm going to ask them to make sure, but it sounds like GoMoorhead won't allow me to do that.


As for the rest of the message, I agree with most of it, but the main thing holding me back from the dish is cost. With cable I can just lease the DVR and if it goes bad they just give me a new one. With a dish, those boxes can be a couple hundred bucks, and it's not as easy to replace I'm sure. I'm seeing the new ads for the DirecTV DVR free after rebate, which intrigues me, but I need to look into more details.
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post #247 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 11:04 AM
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puck71 is correct, using QAM256, cable can put 2 to 3 HD channels in one 6mhz slot. 2 with no compression, and three with some slight compression. QAM256 will provide about 38 Mbps in one 6mhz slot.

I too, have considered switching to satellite, but I still have issues with how satellite has been known to down-res their HD channels. From taking in a 1920x1080i signal, and sending out an 1280x1080i signal to save bandwidth. Satellite has just as much of a bandwidth limitation as CableOne does.
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post #248 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Got forwarded some e-mail from Scott Geston today. Geston basically said that there is no chance of CableONE offering KVLY or KXJB until either a.) KVLY/KXJB doesn't require CableONE to pay for the signal, or b.) KVLY/KXJB charges for the OTA signal as well.

We're at a crossroads. In my opinion cable TV is fast becoming an antiquated medium and OTA (or wireless) is becoming the carrier of choice. I guess what is old is new. With HD now receivable over-the-air, high-bandwidth web service coming directly over-the-air and of course phone service; again over-the-air. Let's face it, cable TV is going the way of the VCR and the dinosaur.

Brian G.
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post #249 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 06:41 PM
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I don't understand option (b) - was he just being sarcastic? How could they possibly charge us to receive the signal over the air?

What this boils down to is the simple fact that CableOne is just plain stubborn. They make up their mind about a channel, and if they don't like it (or the people who run it) for some reason or another, they refuse to ever agree to carry it, no matter how many people want it. I could say this about Victory Sports, OLN, and now KVLY/KXJB.

Did he give any indication of why they won't pay for the signal? It's obviously not a legal issue, since it's perfectly legal to charge for the signal. So it seems to me that it's just some "principle" issue - where they won't pay for it out of principle, even if the price is really low and it would benefit their customers. While you're at it, can you e-mail him and ask him why they don't carry Bravo, GSN, OLN, MTV2, HDNet, and ESPN2HD? I can't wait for that answer...

As for your last point, I think cable is probably on the way out, but it will be a slow death. There are a LOT of people that just want a cable to come from the wall and plug into their TV (or a simple cable box) and they watch TV. They don't want to worry about a dish or any other complicated services.

KXJB update: no signal yet...
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post #250 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 07:25 PM
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Well, once DirecTV goes MPEG4 in the next few months, and if CableOne is still playing hardball, I will probably make the switch. Does anyone know where Midcontinent stands in carrying KVLY-DT? Maybe we can petition them to bring cable service to Fargo/Moorhead. I believe that both in Fargo & Moorhead, CableOne does not have an exclusive franchise agreement, so there could be competition. I think it is a "principle" issue with CableOne. Unfortunaley for me, the OTA signal is not free. I do not have an OTA antenna or receiver, so KVLY-DT will cost me the cost of that equipment. And even then, I will not have any DVR capability for it. AT that point, I would have to switch to satellite HD DVR.
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post #251 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

What this boils down to is the simple fact that CableOne is just plain stubborn. They make up their mind about a channel, and if they don't like it (or the people who run it) for some reason or another, they refuse to ever agree to carry it, no matter how many people want it. I could say this about Victory Sports, OLN, and now KVLY/KXJB.

You can add Fox News to that list as CableOne was slow to add that, but I'd take Victory Sports out. Virtually no one carried that channel because of Victory's ridiculously high demands which is why the channel died. I know DISH Network didn't add the channel for that reason.
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post #252 of 2235 Old 10-17-2005, 11:26 PM
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I switched to Dish from cableone just for hockey on OLN and with my luck Dish can't even broadcast the NHL games... I guess Dish and Comcast are in a dispute. Just a heads up.
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post #253 of 2235 Old 10-18-2005, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grovers50 View Post

You can add Fox News to that list as CableOne was slow to add that, but I'd take Victory Sports out. Virtually no one carried that channel because of Victory's ridiculously high demands which is why the channel died. I know DISH Network didn't add the channel for that reason.

It's not the greatest example since it died so soon, but I think if Victory had actually stuck around, and maybe even lowered prices and became more reasonable, eventually everyone would have carried it except CableOne! And their reason would have been the same as it was the first week...it's like they write out an internal memo concerning why they don't carry a certain channel, then never update that memo.
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post #254 of 2235 Old 10-18-2005, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

There are a LOT of people that just want a cable to come from the wall and plug into their TV (or a simple cable box) and they watch TV. They don't want to worry about a dish or any other complicated services.

DirecTV couldn't make it any less complicated. They realize there's a notion in the market that dishes are complicated so they're doing everything they can to combat that. Installation=free, dish=free, basic set top boxes=free. In many cases they'll even get you an HD box for free.

If you like paying an additional monthly charge to lease your box I'd recommend calling up Dish Network. They'll lease you their equipment. I don't think their HD offering is quite as nice as DirecTV but it can be cheaper to get into.

BTW, I just read that Super Bowl XL will be shown on ABC! Say it ain't so!!!

"With the new television contracts starting in 2006, NBC, which last broadcast Super Bowl XXXII in 1998, will take ABC's place in the network rotation beginning with Super Bowl XLIII in 2009."

Why oh why can't NBC start this year?!?

WDAY? If you're listening (yeah right) you can expect a call from me shortly.
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post #255 of 2235 Old 10-18-2005, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbram View Post

DirecTV couldn't make it any less complicated. They realize there's a notion in the market that dishes are complicated so they're doing everything they can to combat that. Installation=free, dish=free, basic set top boxes=free. In many cases they'll even get you an HD box for free.

I don't think the cost is really the "problem" (if there really is a problem). It's more the convenience issue. A certain amount of people don't want to "install" anything or have anything on their house. They just want the cable to come from the wall and to the TV, and not have to worry about installing/aiming/switching satellites and all that. No matter how minimal the inconvenience is, if it's there at all, there's really no way they can totally match basic cable for pure simplicity.

For the person who just wants to watch ESPN and TNT (or whatever their channels of choice are) what possible reason would they have to switch to a dish over basic cable? The prices for the basic level service are comparable enough where it's probably not worth switching.
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post #256 of 2235 Old 10-18-2005, 07:48 PM
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Tuesday evening - flipped over to 490 on Cable One and see they're replaying the "instant classic" (nothing like stealing from ESPN eh?) of Saturday's USC and Notre Dame game. I would assume that it'll be on a few times in the next couple of weeks. If you have a DVR, looks to be pretty good demo material...

SURE WISH.... (you know the rest - Cable One, KVLY, blah blah blah)
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post #257 of 2235 Old 10-19-2005, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SpedInFargo View Post

Tuesday evening - flipped over to 490 on Cable One and see they're replaying the "instant classic" (nothing like stealing from ESPN eh?) of Saturday's USC and Notre Dame game. I would assume that it'll be on a few times in the next couple of weeks. If you have a DVR, looks to be pretty good demo material...

A couple of weeks ago Universal HD had the Notre Dame-MSU game. I'm assuming they rebroadcast all the NBC Notre Dame games.
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post #258 of 2235 Old 10-19-2005, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck71 View Post

I don't think the cost is really the "problem" (if there really is a problem). It's more the convenience issue. A certain amount of people don't want to "install" anything or have anything on their house. They just want the cable to come from the wall and to the TV, and not have to worry about installing/aiming/switching satellites and all that. No matter how minimal the inconvenience is, if it's there at all, there's really no way they can totally match basic cable for pure simplicity.

For the person who just wants to watch ESPN and TNT (or whatever their channels of choice are) what possible reason would they have to switch to a dish over basic cable? The prices for the basic level service are comparable enough where it's probably not worth switching.

I use to have both DISH and CableOne but decided to drop one because of the cost. I chose CableOne partly because of having multiple HDTVs. I hated to give up DISH Network, but it would have cost over $1000 to get 2 HD DVRs. I thought it made more sense to rent 2 HD DVRs from CableOne despite their inferior HD offerings.
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post #259 of 2235 Old 10-22-2005, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeson83 View Post

Well, once DirecTV goes MPEG4 in the next few months, and if CableOne is still playing hardball, I will probably make the switch. Does anyone know where Midcontinent stands in carrying KVLY-DT? Maybe we can petition them to bring cable service to Fargo/Moorhead. I believe that both in Fargo & Moorhead, CableOne does not have an exclusive franchise agreement, so there could be competition. I think it is a "principle" issue with CableOne. Unfortunaley for me, the OTA signal is not free. I do not have an OTA antenna or receiver, so KVLY-DT will cost me the cost of that equipment. And even then, I will not have any DVR capability for it. AT that point, I would have to switch to satellite HD DVR.



Dont look for Directv to be MPEG-4 around here for like a year or so. I am an installer for Directv in the area and I love my HD that Directv offers....cant wait for the rest to come.

You buy the equipment yes, but they are willing to give you new boxes if yours goes bad. Make the switch DITCH CABLE....
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post #260 of 2235 Old 10-24-2005, 06:39 PM
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Just an update for you guys, ch. 4 cbs hd feed will begin testing next week mon. or tues. for sure by the end of the week. It will be transmitted on uhf ch. 38.

As far as either ch. being on cable1, they are in "negotiating".
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post #261 of 2235 Old 10-24-2005, 07:05 PM
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KXJB/KVLY towers are northwest of Fargo, WDAY and KVRR's main towers are Southeast of Fargo, but currently the digital signal is being broadcast from Fargo offices.
So, what antennas are you guys having success with to get everything?
My current antenna is very directional (I'm only getting fox & pbs), but to get everything, we're probably going to need a multi-directional antenna at some point since the main towers are about 180 degrees appart. Additionally, the towers are all about 35 miles away I think.

Any thoughts?

later,
Gary
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post #262 of 2235 Old 10-25-2005, 04:54 PM
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I just got a Terk Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna model # HDTVA from Best Buy. I can get PBS, WDAY, & KVLY with it from my house near downtown Fargo. My TV doesn't indicate signal strength, but I don't think I have a very high signal for KVLY as it'll lose the signal if you stand in front of the antenna.
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post #263 of 2235 Old 10-25-2005, 05:59 PM
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I just put this antenna up. I had to put it in my attic because an indoor antenna wasn't going to cut it in the basement. I live in south Fargo and I just pointed it NNW. Everything seems to come in fairly well except for KVRR. KVLY has also had a few drop outs. I'm going to need to tweak it in at some point, probably after KJXB comes online.
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post #264 of 2235 Old 10-25-2005, 08:13 PM
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The KXJB and KVLY towers are only about 5 miles apart, with KXJB's ower being a few miles soutwest of KVLY's tower. So, if you are getting KVLY, you should get KXJB. The KXJB engineers told me that via email when I checked with them on where their signal was going to come from (they also stated testing should start next week).
From South Fargo, east of I29, I bet if you can move the antenna towards the east a little, you might get KVRR better.
I'm in West Fargo, about a mile west of Home Depot. So for me, the locations suck because KVLY/KXJB are to the northwest of me and KVRR is northeast. Most UFH antenna specs I've seen don't have that wide of coverage (greater than 90 degrees).

Has anbody had success combining UFH singals from 2 UHF antennas? I'm guessing ghosting is an issue, but I wonder if issues can be adjusted out somehow?

Thanks,
Gary
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post #265 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 02:07 AM
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I use the Radio Shack 15-2185 HDTV antenna ($50) from West Fargo without issues. It is powered and I have placed it in my attic. I had it in my basement and I was not able to get an adequate signal. I use a Media Center PC and it shows that I have 6 out of 6 bars on all channels except KVLY, where I get 5. But it does still work just fine for viewing and recording the HD content. Looks great on my projector.

I must say I am watching more Leno than I ever have in the past, but I can't wait until KXJB goes live and I can get Letterman in HD. I need to go buy more hard drives as mine certainly fill up with the HD content.
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post #266 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 01:41 PM
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Friend of mine just got his first HD TV (welcome aboard Jay) and when he called to get his new DVR for it, lo and behold if it wasn't the newest Moto 6412 Phase 3 box. It sounds like this box is VERY much improved over previous models, especially with regard to encoding analog SD material. This is a pretty big deal because the old box was pathetic in this regard (I almost never watch SD through that box - only when the ReplayTV is recording something else).

Interestingly enough, he's having quality issues on his SD channels - he had Cable One come out and check his signal strength and it's fine. The only thing that we can think of to try out yet is the fact that he's running component through his stereo and using the component switching capabilities of that to go to the TV.

This box also has an SATA port for an external hard drive - no word on if this is active or how to make it work, etc. but it's there (probably never to be activated).

As soon as I can get rid of a few movies off the existing box I think I might have to go into the lobby and pitch a fit until I get one...

Here's a thread about the Phase 3 boxes if anyone's interested.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558602


Sure wish I could record some NBC-HD or CBS-HD on this box....
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post #267 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 06:19 PM
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I traded in the Moto 6408 non-DVR HD box for the 6412 Series 3 about a month ago since puck71 indicated he was getting much better SD pq with the 6412. My experience is that it is actually worse than the 6408 which in turn was considerably worse than the black 2800 series I had for the standard digital cable before that. I am using a projector to display SD at 82" diagonal so believe me- I can tell when there is a step up or down. And yes- I know I should not be blowing up crappy 480i SD signals that large. HD looks great at 72" though I am also using a receiver to switch component sources but I have tried taking that out of the loop to no avail.

I'll just keep stumbling along partially satisfied until something clearly better comes along.
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post #268 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 07:02 PM
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I was comparing the 6412 phase 3 box SD picture quality to the earlier versions of the 6412 box. I never had a 6208 (non-DVR) box so I don't know how it compares to that. It's definitely possible that the 6208 is better in thar regard than any version of the 6412, but in my opinion the 6412 phase 3 was much better than the non-phase 3.

As for the SATA port, I would imagine they'll eventually activate it. Why go to the trouble of putting it on there if you'll never enable it? I know Motorola made it, but they made it FOR cable companies! Right now I'm more concerned about the Firewire output on the box, which IS active, but has copy protection enabled on all digital channels (except a couple), which I'm trying to resolve.
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post #269 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 08:50 PM
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The issue that I'm having with the Moto 6412 Phase 3 is that the quality on SD channels is variable. As SpedInFargo mentions, I've not gone direct to the TV (currently routing thru my Sony STR-DA7100ES Receiver via Component/Coax Audio then to TV again via Component cables. I tried to use HDMI but it wouldn't work for some reason.

What is really bothersome is that the quality is good, then goes bad, then gets better. I thought it was a loose cable in the wall, because it seemed to fix it, but then I was watching it and a bit later it went bad again.

HD channels are ALWAYS clear, so it's just the SD channels.

I'm going to try going direct to TV as soon as I get a chance and see what happens there. From that point, if it's bad when going thru the receiver and good to the TV, then I'll know it's the receiver (but I doubt that too).

I'd likely go direct to TV with all inputs (it has 10 inputs!!!), but my Harmony 880 doesn't seem to understand anything beyond Video 5, and the connections that I need to use are Video 5-8.

My system:

Sony STR-DA7100ES Receiver
Sony RDR-VX515 DVD-RW+RW/VCR
Motorola 6412 Phase III DVR
Sony KDS-R60XBR1 60" Widescreen HDTV
Infinity Mains/Surround
Polk Audio Center
Infinity 650w Sub
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post #270 of 2235 Old 10-26-2005, 08:57 PM
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In my reading (a lot today), the SATA isn't activated in our current firmware version, but may be updated and enabled sometime in the next 6 months.
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