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post #3811 of 3839 Old 04-07-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lilyarbie View Post
I didn't know anything about channel auctions. I thought the last one to be auctioned off was channel 51.
Maybe Trip In VA could update the status of the FCC auctions.
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post #3812 of 3839 Old 04-07-2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomintn View Post
Maybe Trip In VA could update the status of the FCC auctions.
The FCC is wanting to take away channels 38-51 for alternative uses. Still don't know when or if it will happen but most likely the FCC will get their way. This means less channel choices for full and low power stations in the future. I'm sure Trip could give you more details.
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post #3813 of 3839 Old 04-07-2015, 04:51 PM
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The incentive auction is designed to be a market-based means for TV stations to sell their spectrum indirectly to wireless companies. So if you're a station losing money or not making a lot of money, you can opt to sell your spectrum to the FCC who, in turn, will sell it to the wireless companies. If not enough stations opt to sell, then nothing happens. If lots of stations sell, then the TV band shrinks. (Only full-power and Class A stations are eligible.)

To get 84 MHz (channels above 37) would require about 200-300 stations to sell, but of course, it has to be the right 200-300 stations.

- Trip
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post #3814 of 3839 Old 04-07-2015, 05:19 PM
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Rick has been saying for at least two years that he was going to increase power. I WAS a huge fan of his stations until he let them go and I stopped getting them. poor quality...poor signal.
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post #3815 of 3839 Old 04-07-2015, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The incentive auction is designed to be a market-based means for TV stations to sell their spectrum indirectly to wireless companies. So if you're a station losing money or not making a lot of money, you can opt to sell your spectrum to the FCC who, in turn, will sell it to the wireless companies. If not enough stations opt to sell, then nothing happens. If lots of stations sell, then the TV band shrinks. (Only full-power and Class A stations are eligible.)

To get 84 MHz (channels above 37) would require about 200-300 stations to sell, but of course, it has to be the right 200-300 stations.

- Trip
Thanks for the explanation, Trip!
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post #3816 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 09:56 AM
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Titantv.com now showing schedule for Cozi at 4.3 (and still 7.3). Can anyone near their TV check and see if anything is actually broadcasting at 4.3?
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post #3817 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 10:34 AM
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I don't see it happening...

I just don't see that happening. There are too many major stations in those frequencies, and I just don't see how they could be offered enough money to move to a lower frequency. I'm in the Huntsville DMA, and there are two affiliate stations that are broadcasting at RFs 41 and 49. I just don't see them wanting to give up and go down. Also, wouldn't that be crowding the bands in some large cities where there are multiple stations broadcasting? Is digital less problematic with channels being in closer frequencies?
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post #3818 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The incentive auction is designed to be a market-based means for TV stations to sell their spectrum indirectly to wireless companies. So if you're a station losing money or not making a lot of money, you can opt to sell your spectrum to the FCC who, in turn, will sell it to the wireless companies. If not enough stations opt to sell, then nothing happens. If lots of stations sell, then the TV band shrinks. (Only full-power and Class A stations are eligible.)

To get 84 MHz (channels above 37) would require about 200-300 stations to sell, but of course, it has to be the right 200-300 stations.

- Trip
There will still be an incentive auction. It was passed by congress and it mandated to happen by 2022. There will just be less spectrum to auction. The notion that there won't be a incentive auction at all is wrong. Stations will still be repacked. So just because a station above 37 didn't sell doesn't mean they won't be moved. They just won't get paid. Also this misnomer that all the stations auctioned will be above channel 37. Some above, some below. Also some channels above 37 will stay for TV. Ideally the FCC would like 60 MHz for uplink 60 MHz for downlink. These would be separated by channel 37. So there would still be at least 4 channels above 37 still being used for TV.


Stations can get paid for going off broadcast, get a little less for selling spectrum and sharing with another channel or a little less for volunteering to move to VHF.
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post #3819 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lilyarbie View Post
I just don't see that happening. There are too many major stations in those frequencies, and I just don't see how they could be offered enough money to move to a lower frequency. I'm in the Huntsville DMA, and there are two affiliate stations that are broadcasting at RFs 41 and 49. I just don't see them wanting to give up and go down. Also, wouldn't that be crowding the bands in some large cities where there are multiple stations broadcasting? Is digital less problematic with channels being in closer frequencies?
No one is getting paid to move. Stations will get moved regardless. Stations get paid for giving up spectrum. The latest projections have stations in Huntsville getting as much as 200 million for giving up spectrum.
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post #3820 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 01:15 PM
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Almost everything you said is either outdated or wrong.

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Originally Posted by Anon E Muss View Post
No one is getting paid to move. Stations will get moved regardless. Stations get paid for giving up spectrum. The latest projections have stations in Huntsville getting as much as 200 million for giving up spectrum.
UHF to VHF is an option in this auction, thus people will be paid to move from UHF to VHF. But, of course, it is voluntary--no station can be required to move to VHF.

In addition, stations that have to be relocated in order to clear contiguous spectrum will be paid their reasonable costs of changing channels within UHF.

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The latest projections have stations in Huntsville getting as much as 200 million for giving up spectrum.
$200 million is, of course, an opening bid price. Sort of like a car on eBay starting at $100, and then the price goes up. In this case, the price starts at $200 million and goes down.

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Originally Posted by Anon E Muss View Post
There will still be an incentive auction. It was passed by congress and it mandated to happen by 2022. There will just be less spectrum to auction. The notion that there won't be a incentive auction at all is wrong. Stations will still be repacked.
If no stations show up, then there is no more than 6 or 12 MHz that can be recovered by repacking alone, not even enough to sell a single block in the forward auction. I find it very unlikely that no stations will show up, but that is the case that if nobody came to the auction, nothing would happen.

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So just because a station above 37 didn't sell doesn't mean they won't be moved. They just won't get paid.
They will be paid reasonable costs for relocation.

Quote:
Also this misnomer that all the stations auctioned will be above channel 37. Some above, some below. Also some channels above 37 will stay for TV. Ideally the FCC would like 60 MHz for uplink 60 MHz for downlink. These would be separated by channel 37. So there would still be at least 4 channels above 37 still being used for TV.
The bandplan is contiguous; if 84 MHz is recovered, then all of that spectrum is above channel 37. While the NPRM proposed to split uplink and downlink at channel 37, that was not adopted. At 84 MHz, channel 45 is the duplex gap with uplink above 45 and downlink below 45. (More or less.) Of course, if fewer stations jump in, then it may clear only above channel 41, for example. If a whole bunch participate, it could be cleared down to channel 29 or so.

There's also market variability, but I think that starts to get a bit confusing given that I assume posters here only really want/need a high level understanding.

- Trip

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post #3821 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Almost everything you said is either outdated or wrong.

I keep up on stuff. I'd post the latest info if I had enough posts. Straight from the FCC. Or is the FCC own words not good enough?

Quote:
UHF to VHF is an option in this auction, thus people will be paid to move from UHF to VHF. But, of course, it is voluntary--no station can be required to move to VHF.

Yes. I was making the point more simply without confusing people.

Quote:
In addition, stations that have to be relocated in order to clear contiguous spectrum will be paid their reasonable costs of changing channels within UHF.

Being paid to move it a LOT less than being paid to sell your spectrum. Thus being paid for the cost of moving does not equate to being paid for going off air. And moving to VHF pays a lot less than just simply going off air.

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$200 million is, of course, an opening bid price. Sort of like a car on eBay starting at $100, and then the price goes up. In this case, the price starts at $200 million and goes down.
Yes that's why I said UP TO. Fact is even $50 mil is A LOT more than what profit a station in Huntsville, AL makes in several years. Also sharing means both station split the money and then after that split the cost of operations which saves money. With ATSC 3.0 sharing shouldn't be an issue. So wouldn't a station consider it?

Quote:
If no stations show up, then there is no more than 6 or 12 MHz that can be recovered by repacking alone, not even enough to sell a single block in the forward auction. I find it very unlikely that no stations will show up, but that is the case that if nobody came to the auction, nothing would happen.

The FCC MUST have this auction. It's LAW. The FCC can't disobey the law.

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They will be paid reasonable costs for relocation.

Yes already stated. Not the same as being paid to leave broadcast.

Quote:
The bandplan is contiguous; if 84 MHz is recovered, then all of that spectrum is above channel 37. While the NPRM proposed to split uplink and downlink at channel 37, that was not adopted.

the FCC is looking to get as much as 126 MHz that is going to require going below 37.
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post #3822 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 02:09 PM
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Also the $200 mil for Huntsville was before the AWS-3 auction. I'm sure the values will go up greatly seeing as that auction brought in 4X what the FCC thought.
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post #3823 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Brentwood OTA View Post
Titantv.com now showing schedule for Cozi at 4.3 (and still 7.3). Can anyone near their TV check and see if anything is actually broadcasting at 4.3?
Did a re scan, but no 4.3 yet.
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post #3824 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 03:30 PM
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Thanks for checking, retrotv. Usually we're waiting for the schedule to show up after the channel is already broadcasting. Seems odd seeing the schedule ahead of the channel itself. Maybe the move is imminent.
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post #3825 of 3839 Old 04-08-2015, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon E Muss View Post
I keep up on stuff. I'd post the latest info if I had enough posts. Straight from the FCC. Or is the FCC own words not good enough?
Yes, they are. I'll come back to this.

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Yes. I was making the point more simply without confusing people.
You said "no one is being paid to move" and I pointed out that it wasn't a true statement. I'm all for simplicity, but that sentence was misleading at best.

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Being paid to move it a LOT less than being paid to sell your spectrum. Thus being paid for the cost of moving does not equate to being paid for going off air. And moving to VHF pays a lot less than just simply going off air.
But your sentence stated that stations would be required to move and didn't clarify they would be compensated for it.

"A lot" is a relative term, and is only in the opening prices. The proposed discount are 2/3 off for going to high-VHF and 1/3 off for going to low-VHF. The auction itself will determine whether or not there is a discount when all is said and done. For all you and I know, the prices may equalize as the auction goes on.

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Yes that's why I said UP TO. Fact is even $50 mil is A LOT more than what profit a station in Huntsville, AL makes in several years. Also sharing means both station split the money and then after that split the cost of operations which saves money. With ATSC 3.0 sharing shouldn't be an issue. So wouldn't a station consider it?
"Up to" could just as easily mean that one particular station will get $200 million while others get less. Clarifying that they are opening prices doesn't hurt.

Regarding sharing, there's still a lot of open questions on things like what happens if one of the partners goes out of business or how to divvy up the stream before ATSC 3.0 comes along, if it ever does. (I'll believe it when I see it.)

Quote:
The FCC MUST have this auction. It's LAW. The FCC can't disobey the law.
Yes, a voluntary auction. If nobody shows up, the auction is still run, but no spectrum is available to sell and the stations aren't repacked. The FCC is required by the law authorizing the auction to preserve coverage and population of TV stations, and so if no stations show up, the FCC can't just modify station coverage areas to shoehorn stations closer together.

Quote:
the FCC is looking to get as much as 126 MHz that is going to require going below 37.
Yes, if more than 84 MHz is recovered, it will go below channel 37, but except for market variability which is too complicated to raise here, that does not mean there will be "at least 4 channels above 37 used for TV." The idea is to provide a contiguous TV band and a contiguous wireless band, where possible.

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Originally Posted by Anon E Muss View Post
Also the $200 mil for Huntsville was before the AWS-3 auction. I'm sure the values will go up greatly seeing as that auction brought in 4X what the FCC thought.
The $200 million price is based on the actual FCC proposal. The pro-auction lobbying group EOBC proposed an alternative formula that increases the prices, but unless that or some other modification to the FCC formula is adopted, the prices you see now are pretty close to the opening prices that will be seen in the auction.

Just to clarify, I don't mean to be mean or rude or discourage you from being here on AVS. I'm just a stickler for accuracy, particularly on the things I work on. (See the second line of my signature.) I apologize if I came across in that way!

- Trip

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post #3826 of 3839 Old 04-09-2015, 04:12 PM
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Did a re scan, but no 4.3 yet.
17.2's schedule showed on Titan for about a month before it came on. So it may be soon or a while. These channel changes will happen, but we may not know until they do.
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post #3827 of 3839 Old 04-10-2015, 08:39 AM
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Since the information for the listings comes from the local stations themselves, it means that by the listing's deadline time, WSMV believed Cozi would be up and running by now. But we all know about best laid plans in broadcasting, don't we...
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post #3828 of 3839 Old 04-13-2015, 04:29 PM
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Titan TV is now listing the COZI-TV programming for 4.3. Now for the scan!
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post #3829 of 3839 Old 04-14-2015, 10:18 AM
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I have been looking at Huffington TV listings for Nashville, TN. It appears to be more accurate than TitanTV on what I can receive, especially channel 6 (RF 7). The only thing that looks funny is WJDE, which I can't receive anyway. What do you think?

Nashville, Tennessee TV Listings

Last edited by tomintn; 04-14-2015 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Add link to Huffington TV
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post #3830 of 3839 Old 04-14-2015, 02:09 PM
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Finally, at wsmv.com, the scoop on the debut of Cozi on one of the digital subchannels of... Wait for it...

http://www.wsmv.com/story/28767773/d...oming-to-cbs-5

...channel 5 in Phoenix!!!

Huh?!?

Quit toying with us, Meredith!
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post #3831 of 3839 Old 04-16-2015, 08:23 AM
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I emailed WSMV and heard back yesterday. There's still no official launch date for Cozi on 4.3. She asked me to get back in touch in early May. Odd that Cozi has apparently already launched on the other Meredith stations that were announced the same time as Nashville (check out the "welcome" graphic at CoziTV.com) but it won't launch here for awhile yet...
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post #3832 of 3839 Old 04-16-2015, 09:13 AM
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I emailed WSMV and heard back yesterday. There's still no official launch date for Cozi on 4.3. She asked me to get back in touch in early May. Odd that Cozi has apparently already launched on the other Meredith stations that were announced the same time as Nashville (check out the "welcome" graphic at CoziTV.com) but it won't launch here for awhile yet...

.....soon.......more like forever, any word on METV on 2.3 yet....April 15th has come and gone.
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post #3833 of 3839 Old 04-16-2015, 10:55 AM
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More stations dropped Live Well yesterday. Media General seems to be the hold out, and ABC. I don't know why they won't let it go. I also don't know how much longer Live Well will be broadcasting. I've had no luck finding an end date.
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Last edited by retrotv; 04-16-2015 at 11:01 AM.
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post #3834 of 3839 Old 04-16-2015, 11:47 AM
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I don't know anymore than what has already been said here, but speaking from experience with some past situations one would assume the reason for the Cozi delay is either that WSMV doesn't have "4.3" technically teady to go, or there are still contractual or otherwise legal commitments or wrangling that has yet to be ironed out. The contractual or legal angle could also be true of MeTV coming to 2.3, but from other evidence it could also be that the move to MeTV will cost MG more than what LiveWell is costing them now, and MG is holding out to avoid that cost. You will not find an end date for LiveWell because it is continuing on ABC O&O stations, but they have said ithey will no longer offer the diginet outside of the O&Os. With all of the non-attention LW has gotten, do they even know MG is still picking it up? But at least be glad MG has said it plans to pick up the channel for Nashville, because beyond WKRN and WBAY in Green Bay, it looks like MG will take or has already taken the LW-occupied subchannels of its other stations dark.
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post #3835 of 3839 Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
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On May 1 at 0400, Titan TV for the 2.3 schedule data stops for LWN. It is not available for the remainder of that day. Have a great weekend!

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post #3836 of 3839 Old Yesterday, 06:39 PM
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I was told by some satellite tech guys that i know.That the folks that owns Metv will stop the distribution of there channels to local stations via satellite.And will use the internet for distribution to local stations as of April 1. Could this be the cause for the delay?
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post #3837 of 3839 Old Today, 06:55 AM
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MOVIES! Network Coming Soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by retrotv View Post
More stations dropped Live Well yesterday. Media General seems to be the hold out, and ABC. I don't know why they won't let it go. I also don't know how much longer Live Well will be broadcasting. I've had no luck finding an end date.
Looks like METV is really coming to 2.3, WJDE has already found a replacement channel, Movies!


31-131.1480iDD2.0 WJDEMovies! (Soon)
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post #3838 of 3839 Old Today, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hdrick103 View Post
Looks like METV is really coming to 2.3, WJDE has already found a replacement channel, Movies!


31-131.1480iDD2.0 WJDEMovies! (Soon)
Yes, this was supposed to happen back in January when WKRN was first supposed to pick up MeTV. The ID had already been changed to Movies! and 'JDE had started running Heroes & Icons at 31.2 and Binge!/Decades at 31.3. However, at the last minute Media General hung on to LiveWell when ABC O&Os didn't fully kill it off. When it looked like MeTV was going to continue to be around 'JDE for a while longer, they began airing Movies! at 31.2 where it will stay until MeTV finally moves. Good grief, MG, pull the switch already!
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post #3839 of 3839 Old Today, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tomintn View Post
I have been looking at Huffington TV listings for Nashville, TN. It appears to be more accurate than TitanTV on what I can receive, especially channel 6 (RF 7). The only thing that looks funny is WJDE, which I can't receive anyway. What do you think?

Nashville, Tennessee TV Listings
The Huffington Post site seems to be more accurate then Titan TV. However the schedule for 31.2 lists Heros & Icons schedule instead of Movies (the network on this channel). Also it does not extend the schedule as far.
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