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Local HDTV Info and Reception

jl1718's Avatar jl1718
12:49 PM Liked: 10
post #31 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 261
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Quote:


Originally posted by leewcraft
I think so. I'm surprised that NBC is such low power, but I guess VHF must not require as much power as UHF.

Is this why I cant get 4.2? I'm new to Voom from Comcast and still learning OTA's. Thanks.

Jerry
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
01:07 PM Liked: 10
post #32 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 446
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Can you get 4.1 ok? If so, you shouldn't have a problem getting a subchannel. If you can't get either, then you should look into a good VHF/UHF combo antenna. Some UHF antennas will pick up channel 4 ok, but some won't.

Lee
jl1718's Avatar jl1718
01:14 PM Liked: 10
post #33 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 261
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I can get 4.1 okay. I havent been able to receive the HD channell since VOOM put in the antenna. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Jerry
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
01:17 PM Liked: 10
post #34 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 446
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Sounds like more of a configuration problem on your box, maybe (?) 4.1 is the HD channel. 4.2 is the upconvert of the analog channel.
jl1718's Avatar jl1718
02:50 PM Liked: 10
post #35 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 261
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I was able to get the race today in Widescreen on 4.1. At least I get HD content looks like its all on one channel.

Jerry
w9wi's Avatar w9wi
07:27 PM Liked: 10
post #36 of 3675
07-10-2004 | Posts: 268
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There's no such thing as 4.2. You should get the HD content on 4.1.

We had two subchannels for awhile, but shut down the SD simulcast a few months ago so 4.1 is the only one you should get.

(incidentially, last week we hooked up the 5.1 Dolby audio encoder - some of the Olympics will be in 5.1 surround, along with some other NBC programming - we're hoping all is OK with the audio but if it isn't please drop me a line at dsmith1@wsmv.com...)

The 42.whatever kw power we're running is the maximum permitted on VHF channel 10. VHF "gets out" a lot better than UHF for the same power. Among analog stations, the FCC limits channels 7-13 to 316kw; UHF stations are allowed up to 5000kw. They figure both stations will have the same coverage. Our 42kw on channel 10 is analogous to about 600kw on channel 27.

At my location in Cheatham Co., our signal is at a par with WKRN's 900kw on channel 27. (WKRN's DTV works a LOT better than their analog!) WTVF comes in second with their 400+kw on channel 56; then, WB on channel 23, then Pax on 36 (there's a lot of interference from Kentucky on 36 up here), then PBS on 46. Fox and UPN on 15 and 21 can be seen under good conditions but it's tough. I've seen the religious station on 38 and the home-shopping on 44 but both only once. I know the religious station on 51 is on with their 400 watts (seen while visiting the base of their tower!) but not a hint up here.

(but UPN has a directional antenna and has less than 1kw in my direction. A 1kw analog on channel 21 would be completely invisible at this distance!)
dwynne's Avatar dwynne
08:29 AM Liked: 10
post #37 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 677
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Thanks for the info, Doug. My CM amp should show up today and I will see if that helps pick up the 4.1 signal - it comes and goes for me, but I have just a UHF up at this point.

Just curious, did you guys have any say-so in the channel you got for HD? With all the others up on UHF it makes having you on VHF a bit of a pain - antenna-wise.

I had never gotten anything on 4.2 either, my HDTivo "knew" based on my location that it was supposed to be there - but I could never find a signal on it even when I had a solid lock on 4.1 . Now I know why

Dennis
Reagan's Avatar Reagan
08:46 AM Liked: 10
post #38 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 988
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Hey Doug,

Here's yet another signal strength report from me (BG, KY).

I picked up a new STB (the MIT MDR-200) and when connected to my VHF attic mounted antenna I can get WSMV perfectly with no dropouts ever. This is a slight improvement from my Tosh DST-3000 which had the occaisonal dropout (and would never give up the idea that there wasn't a channel 4.2 even after it was turned off).

-Reagan
durl's Avatar durl
10:38 AM Liked: 10
post #39 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 637
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Channel 4 is one of the weakest signals for me and I live just north of Nashville. That power figure explains that one, I guess.

Meanwhile, I anxiously await HD from Fox17.
Reagan's Avatar Reagan
10:48 AM Liked: 10
post #40 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 988
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durl,
Are you using a VHF antenna? It makes a big difference for WSMV.



Doug,
Great news on the 5.1. Thanks for the info.

-Reagan
dwynne's Avatar dwynne
02:28 PM Liked: 10
post #41 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 677
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I am going to try to get by w/o a VHF antenna. I will know if this will work after I hook up the 7777 amp (maybe tonight after work).

Questions:

In 7777 amp pictures I have sometimes seen a weather cover for the unused (for now) VHF input. My 7777 did not include such a device, just f connector weather boots. I assume I need to close off this port with something?

Also, anyone knows of a good source for a SMALL channel 10 antenna in case I need one. Stark carries some TACO antennas but they are 5 element - so the channel 10 has a boom of 2' 8". This might be fine for Reagan in KY, but I don't need anything that big

I was thinking just a 2 element antenna would be more than enough and would be a lot smaller.

Dennis
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
02:44 PM Liked: 10
post #42 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 446
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That's the inherent problem with VHF...antennas have to be big to be good. I was able to pick up NBC with one UHF antenna but not with another, so it's sort of a crapshoot whether you can get it with a non-VHF antenna. You can get an indoor VHF antenna, but it's usually the big rabbit ears type.

Lee
Reagan's Avatar Reagan
03:14 PM Liked: 10
post #43 of 3675
07-12-2004 | Posts: 988
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I can also get spotty reception of WSMV with a 3x3 foot CM4228 UHF antenna. Given that you're a lot closer to the tower, it may work for you.

-Reagan
durl's Avatar durl
08:20 AM Liked: 10
post #44 of 3675
07-13-2004 | Posts: 637
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Reagan,

I use an HDTV-UHF antenna. It's a Zenith ZHDTV1 indoor. ABC comes in very strong and CBS comes in good as well. NBC falls in the medium range. Fox, UPN, even the PAX locals come in much better than NBC.

I figured that NBC just didn't hit my house as well as the other channels.
Reagan's Avatar Reagan
08:22 AM Liked: 10
post #45 of 3675
07-13-2004 | Posts: 988
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I'm at a loss for a solution then. Sorry.

-Reagan
dwynne's Avatar dwynne
09:38 AM Liked: 10
post #46 of 3675
07-13-2004 | Posts: 677
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Quote:
Originally posted by durl
Reagan,

I use an HDTV-UHF antenna. It's a Zenith ZHDTV1 indoor. ABC comes in very strong and CBS comes in good as well. NBC falls in the medium range. Fox, UPN, even the PAX locals come in much better than NBC.

I figured that NBC just didn't hit my house as well as the other channels.

NBC is the only local HD NOT on UHF - they are on VHF channel 10. So you (and I) are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole when we use a UHF antenna to pick them up.

There may be only one channel number difference between VHF channel 13 and UHF channel 14 but there is a BUNCH of difference in the frequencies - 211.25 mhz VS 471.25 mhz! So having an antenna tuned to pick up 471.25 mhz to 801.25 mhz is not likely to make a good antenna to pick up 211.25 mhz.

I am going to have to put up some kind of VHF antenna to go with the UHF CM 4 bay - channel 4 (on channel 10) just does not have a solid signal using the UHF antenna - even with an amp. Sounds like you need to do the same.

Dennis
dwynne's Avatar dwynne
09:43 AM Liked: 10
post #47 of 3675
07-13-2004 | Posts: 677
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Quote:
Originally posted by w9wi
The 42.whatever kw power we're running is the maximum permitted on VHF channel 10. VHF "gets out" a lot better than UHF for the same power. Among analog stations, the FCC limits channels 7-13 to 316kw; UHF stations are allowed up to 5000kw. They figure both stations will have the same coverage. Our 42kw on channel 10 is analogous to about 600kw on channel 27.

I think I know the answer to my own question

While being on VHF 10 may not be ideal for folks trying to PICK UP your signal, being limited by the FCC to 42kw is a HUGE bonus to your station in that you have a TON lower costs for amps and electricity.

A friend works at WTVF and he was talking about the water cooled, tons of money stuff they have to run to crank out the power that they have to have on 56. I think they were originally slated to get the channel 10 slot (2 x 5 = 10) but somehow that got changed. We folks trying to watch OTA may be dissappointed, but your station is probably really glad you got the channel that you did

Dennis
w9wi's Avatar w9wi
11:46 PM Liked: 10
post #48 of 3675
07-14-2004 | Posts: 268
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Speaking strictly for myself (as I doubt the company has any official opinion on the matter!) the channel 10 assignment was indeed a financial bonus. We were honestly surprised by the assignment; it wasn't anything we asked for. The assignments were made automatically by computer. After the table came out, stations were allowed to ask for changes.

I don't recall why they did it, but the FCC ran the entire assignment table twice. As I remember it, we drew channel 42 the first time around; then, they reran it and we got channel 10. There were a LOT of other changes, nationwide.

Quite a few stations have successfully petitioned the FCC to change their digital assignments. These changes have all happened after the original table was released. If I recall properly there have been no changes in Middle Tennessee; everyone has built on the channel they were originally assigned.

Actually the channel 10 slot is *not* twice channel 5 -- channel 5 is 76-82MHz, while channel 10 is 192-198MHz.

Right now it looks like WTVF will end up moving back from channel 56 to channel 5 at the end of transition; channels 52-69 are going away at the end of analog. However, there may end up being an "out" for that, and they may be able to pick up one of the UHF channels abandoned by one of the other stations.
w9wi's Avatar w9wi
11:53 PM Liked: 10
post #49 of 3675
07-14-2004 | Posts: 268
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Durl, what part of town are you in? There are some pretty dramatic differences in reception depending on terrain. And Nashville is unusual in that the transmitters are spread around town. (in most cities, all TV towers are within 2-3miles of each other)

UHF antennas are going to be hit-or-miss on channel 10. Amplified UHF antennas are less likely to work on channel 10 than unamplified ones. (I'm hard-pressed to think of a place in Davidson County where an amplifier should be necessary)
Reagan's Avatar Reagan
08:18 AM Liked: 10
post #50 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 988
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Hey Doug,

You mentioned that channels 52-69 will be going away, what about 2-6? Any new information on that front?

-Reagan
w9wi's Avatar w9wi
09:23 AM Liked: 10
post #51 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 268
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Quote:


You mentioned that channels 52-69 will be going away, what about 2-6? Any new information on that front?

Nope... right now the official line is still that 2-6 will be staying with us.

There has been a release that suggests stations will be allowed to pick a channel freed up by some other station as their permanent DTV channel.

For example, WTVF's DTV channel is 56 and their analog channel is of course 5. WZTV's digital is 15 and analog 17. At the end of transition, WZTV will be required to return either channel 15 or channel 17.

Since 56 is "outside core", theoretically WTVF will be required to move their DTV to channel 5 at the end of transition.

Under the recent releases, it looks like WTVF will be allowed to request either channel 15 or 17, whichever one WZTV doesn't keep. Or, they can stick with channel 5.
JoeInNVa's Avatar JoeInNVa
09:25 AM Liked: 10
post #52 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 2,165
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Quote:


Originally posted by dkomisar
Nashville Fox 17 Sinclair owned. Now that Fox network has stepped up to the plate with HD football is there anything we can do to hurry along local Fox affiliates owned by Sinclair. Nashville Fox 17 does not have a clue as to when it will be able to pass HD signals from the network.

When does Halley's Comet come back by again???
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
10:54 AM Liked: 10
post #53 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 446
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I just learned a little bit from the Fox HD - Cities that are HD / DD 5.1 Ready thread on HDTV Programming. I think this thread erroneously lists Nashville as broadcasting in 720p w/o a splicer. Someone correct me if we are actually in 720p now.

Fox's priorities for installing the splicers are NFC football cities and Fox O&O stations before other stations (we don't qualify as either). There are 3 NFC cities that still need the splicer (Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit) and 2 additional O&O cities (KC, Salt Lake City) that are definitely ahead of us on the list.

There are also 4 other cities that are bigger than Nashville that don't fall in either category. As of now, Nashville is the 7th largest Fox market without a splicer installed.

So, there are at least 9 stations that have a good likelihood of getting their splicer before Nashville. Of course, that doesn't include any predictions on the Sinclair factor.

Lee
CPanther95's Avatar CPanther95
11:38 AM Liked: 73
post #54 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 23,797
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Quote:


Originally posted by leewcraft
I just learned a little bit from the Fox HD - Cities that are HD / DD 5.1 Ready thread on HDTV Programming. I think this thread erroneously lists Nashville as broadcasting in 720p

Has anyone heard anything from your local Fox engineer? I received a PM from a Nashville resident that stated Nashville went 720p for a day or two. If that's true, they may have decided to keep the 720p signal offline until closer to the scheduled splicer install.

If they never went 720p, let me know and I'll adjust the list.
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
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post #55 of 3675
07-15-2004 | Posts: 446
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I haven't heard anything. I get my locals through Comcast, but I do have a STB. I'll test it out this weekend to see if it's in 720p, but I haven't heard anything about a 720p test.
Southern Soul's Avatar Southern Soul
09:40 AM Liked: 10
post #56 of 3675
07-17-2004 | Posts: 45
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Doug,

The time signature is an hour off on channel 4. Also, there is no PSIP data. Do you know when these things will be addressed? It's not a big deal, really. But, I have to change the channel to 5 before powering off my stb or else I'm late for everything
w9wi's Avatar w9wi
09:34 PM Liked: 10
post #57 of 3675
07-22-2004 | Posts: 268
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Again?.... drat.

I noted a problem with that the other day (a couple of weeks ago) & fixed it - it's off again? Will take a look tomorrow. My PC card at home doesn't look at the STT so I tend not to notice unless someone complains...

I don't know what plans management has for PSIP.
stsrep's Avatar stsrep
07:26 AM Liked: 10
post #58 of 3675
07-23-2004 | Posts: 381
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Anyone spoken to the tech's at Fox lately for an update as to when 720p will be available?
My contact is on vacation.
??????????????????
leewcraft's Avatar leewcraft
05:39 PM Liked: 10
post #59 of 3675
07-25-2004 | Posts: 446
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Sure haven't. We're up to the 3rd largest market that doesn't have the splicer installed. Come on, Fox17.

Lee
Southern Soul's Avatar Southern Soul
05:16 AM Liked: 10
post #60 of 3675
07-26-2004 | Posts: 45
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It's fixed! Thanks, Doug!!!

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