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post #3121 of 3306 Old 05-25-2011, 10:52 AM
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Hope that rotor is heavy duty and not one of the cheap ones or an antenna that long is going to torque the bearings within a year... It is a very good hi-VHF performer, though.

If you're going the Winegard route, the 7695 is of similar design, but much smaller (with less gain and F/B ratio to match.). I don't have much experience getting VHF-Hi digitals, so maybe I'm all wrong. The Winegards are well built, though their designs are pretty dated. A Winegard VHF-only preamp could be a good buy - they pass UHF, unlike the Channel Masters. And they are less prone to overload.

Only the Channel Master rotors (9521) have lasted very long for me.
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post #3122 of 3306 Old 05-25-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

I hate to be the party pooper here, but an Antennas Direct V-21 is NOT going to cut it for WKBT at 55 miles. Just to be safe and especially since you probably don't want a pre-amp if the thing is on a rotor, I would go with a Winegard 7698. It's probably one or two sizes this side of overkill, but hey... insurance is paying for it.

I agree that the V-21 is not the antenna of choice here. (too expensive for too little RF gain) Maybe post your TVfool results and we can see what would be a perfect fit. the HD7698 maybe overkill, maybe you would be able to drop a couple of sizes down and still have good results. That said, the Winegard HD76xx series would be a good fit for someone looking to get the stations that you are, and has a rotator.

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post #3123 of 3306 Old 05-26-2011, 11:48 AM
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In order to post TV Fool results, I have to have this post to get the required amounts.

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post #3124 of 3306 Old 05-26-2011, 11:49 AM
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Here is his address. I had to use latitude and longitude in order to get the exact location (Google maps can't resolve the exact location....he lives in the boondocks)

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...574736733573fb

He had a really crappy antenna on a rotor and did not pick up some of the channels. He told me that the insurance company would replace everything (antenna, rotor, and mast) since it was blown off the house (The rotor is still on the house in the pic I attached, but they said they would replace it). I am not sure of the exact model, but it was close to looking like a Wineguard 7010.

Here is a picture of his house after the storm:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1108778...00447666413730

He had a large tree to the south, which I think hindered some of the signal (it covered the house and now it's gone).

Is it better to have a directional or a multidirectional antenna?

Thank you for your help!

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post #3125 of 3306 Old 05-26-2011, 01:24 PM
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If that is what he had, I stand by my second recommendation of the 7695. He has an excellent location for reception, and losing that tree won't hurt.
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post #3126 of 3306 Old 05-26-2011, 01:43 PM
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http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tv...=0&facid=67018

Welp, so much for picking up WEAU on channel 38.
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post #3127 of 3306 Old 05-26-2011, 03:04 PM
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Three Angels may opt to try for a different channel given the petition, since the coverage on that signal would overlap rather significantly. Of course, it would be the third or fourth channel they've tried in the Rochester area.

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post #3128 of 3306 Old 07-04-2011, 09:55 PM
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In keeping with the current theme of antenna troubles...

On November 28, 2010 my wonderful Delhi VU-936SR plus UHF Power Zoom snapped in two after 16 years on the job.

I was in the yard making one last dash to pick up the leaves but didn't look up as I normally do. I was taping the Packers on WLAX for later. I had to leave and didn't come back until after dark. I then noticed WKBT cutting out. I backed up the tape and saw that WLAX started cutting out around 4PM. WKBT never cuts out, so I stuck my head out and looked up. I could see something swinging in the breeze at the top of the tower. When it was light out I saw that the UHF portion snapped and was dangling by the twinlead going to the preamp. It held long enough for me to climb up on a relatively calm day and cut it loose and lower to the ground.

The red circle in the second picture is the twinlead. It was enough that I could still pick up all the local stations. But later KYIN 24 (18) started acting up, do I dug my 20+ year old Radio Shack U-120 out of mothballs and set it up inside. As Doctor Who Series 5 was about to start.

The third picture is the UHF section and shows that it was a bad tear, not a clean break. Not sure what/how it happened.

To "celebrate" the 4th of July I spent three hours unbolting and lowering the VHF section to the ground. Then the rotor as it stopped working also. Being unbalanced like that probably wasn't any good. When I opened the door to detach the wires, all the screws had fallen out.

I then hauled up the aforementioned U-120 and bolted it in. Aimed it towards the WLAX/WXOW/WHLA tower, best guess. Will see how reception holds up over the next several days, but better than I thought. Locals are in the 80s or higher for signal strength including KTTC. (DigitalStream converter)

WLAX and WHLA are now coming in, mid 50s. Even WKBT was coming in (low 40s), not sure how long that will last. WXOW, not very good.

Was picking up TPT 2 (34, 23), WCCO 4 (32) , KMSP/WFTC (29), WUCW 23 (22), and KSTC 45, around 50. Will see how those go over time.

With the VHF section on the ground I was able to look at the tear on that section. It snapped right at the support for the upper and lower beams.

Now I will have to find a replacement as those Delhis are no longer made. That setup pretty much brought in everything. The only stations I couldn't get were 18 (15) and 48 (49) out of Chippewa Falls/Eau Claire. WEAU on 13 was spotty. I never had a problem with analog 13 nor the digital transition channel, but when they went back to VHF at hair dryer power levels it became problematic.

Either allow digital VHF stations to transmit full power as before, or drop VHF altogether and use it for emergency frequencies instead of chopping away at the UHF spectrum. No VHF would make antennas easier.

Rarely picked up the Ion Affiliate out of St Cloud, But I could usually pick up KEYC 12 Mankato at night. Clear views of the northern, western, and southern horizons at the top of the tower (Delhi 70 foot).

So I would like to keep that reception. Gangbusters UHF reception is essential as I must get the Packers. As there are no VHF-Low stations in range, I suppose I could settle on a VHF-High antenna. But then I would lose FM reception. I have tuned into the Packers Radio Network out of Eau Claire (100.7) in the past, so I would prefer to keep that ability.

I changed the rotor for the first time in 2010 (it hadn't worked in years). My feet in clodhoppers don't fit well at the top of the tower, so I made a footrest out of a scrap 2x10 and clamped it to the rotor plate. This gave me enough height to maneuver the antenna around.

I don't want to repeat that again, so I thinking of bolting two thrust bearings into the plates and find a way to mount the rotor below. The bearings should extend the life of the rotor, but if I have to replace it, I won't have to be semi-precariously perched on a footrest. Plus I could raise and lower the mast to get access to the antenna as needed. I don't intend the rotor to bear any vertical weight.

Because the holes in the plate have three inch spacings, I think the only bearing that will fit is the Delhi BBMB. Yaesu appears to be metric. If there are alternatives, I am all ears.

I saw some of the posts about masts. Right now Menards has galvanized pipe on sale. My current mast is 1 1/2 inch OD, wall thickness 1/16 inch. The masts on sale are 1 3/8, 1 3/4 and 2 inches OD. About 1/8 inch wall thickness, should be stiff enough. The BBMB bearing max diameter is two inches, but pipe that diameter would be awfully heavy to haul up and maneuver, plus could be difficult finding a rotor and antenna clamps to fit.

So I am wondering if there is anything out there comparable in performance to a VU-936SR???
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #3129 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 01:32 AM
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tachmn, as you no doubt know, location is everything. Looks like you have a pretty good one. Antenna height helps a lot, too.

Every UHF/VHF combination design is a compromise. You won't get the best performance on either end. If it were me, I'd give a serious look at the Winegard HD8200P: http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD8200U.pdf

I had one atop my 54' tower and it was an able performer. Not as good on UHF as my AntennasDirect 91XG, but pretty good. The other one that gets mentioned is the Channel Master 3671. I have never been pleased with the construction and durability of Channel Master antennas, but many people have them and are. They feel cheaper to me than the Winegards. With your location, either should meet your needs, including FM.
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post #3130 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 09:41 AM
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The cheapest and probably the best solution would be to get yourself an Antennas Direct 91XG UHF antenna and a Winegard YA-1719 VHF-Hi antenna. They are $53 and $48 respectively. Remember to get yourself a preamp with this.

The 8200 would be a colossal waste of money. There's a lot of wasted weight and cost in the VHF-lo elements and the UHF gain isn't super compared to a 91XG. Plus, I have seen an innumerable number of those antennas where the UHF director section just snapped off clean. Very poor design for MN weather.

We had a U-120 (along with a sideways y Winegard VHF antenna) at another house. With an Winegard AP-8780 preamp, we could get perfect analog reception in the lower UHFs, but 45 was pretty bad, and there wasn't much of a trace of 41 indicating that the gain dropped off a lot in the upper ch's.

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post #3131 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp
The 8200 would be a colossal waste of money. There's a lot of wasted weight and cost in the VHF-lo elements and the UHF gain isn't super compared to a 91XG.
I would agree, but he specifically mentioned wanting to keep long-range FM as well, which is why I recommended the two I did. There really aren't any good long-distance FM antennas out there, and even so, his tower would look like a Christmas tree with 3 antennas on it. If we're talking TV-only, your pair would be my first choice.
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post #3132 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 12:55 PM
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Sorry... missed that part. Adding an Antennacraft FM-6 would also be an option. Otherwise, the 8200 is the only half-decent antenna I can think of. If you do get one, you may want rig up some way to secure the joint between the UHF director boom and the main boom, so there's no chance of it falling apart.

BTW, isn't that a 937. I have a 936 and I'm pretty sure it's not that long.

Going with another Wade wouldn't be a bad option, either. However, I don't know where you could get one.

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post #3133 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 05:09 PM
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How about rebuilding or repairing the broken antenna? Either replace or patch the boom.
A bit of a project, but it would seem that what makes one antenna better than another is its design, and you already have a design that you know works to your satisfaction.
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post #3134 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 06:46 PM
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Sorry... missed that part. Adding an Antennacraft FM-6 would also be an option.

Losing FM is not a deal breaker as Z-100 can be tough to get at times. I used it more to pick up KQAL out of Winona State. I do have a Channel Master FM antenna in the attic, pointing north only. But would be pushing up the square footage total.

Quote:
BTW, isn't that a 937? I have a 936 and I'm pretty sure it's not that long.

It's listed on the invoice as a 936. Now that both sections are down on the ground I can measure. A little over 17 feet in length total, not counting the UHF Power Zoom (about another 30 inches).

Quote:
Going with another Wade wouldn't be a bad option, either. However, I don't know where you could get one.

As they haven't been made for several years now, not likely. Website has CATV antennas now. Either VHF Low or High. And certainly not real deep fringe.
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post #3135 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 07:01 PM
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How about rebuilding or repairing the broken antenna? Either replace or patch the boom.
A bit of a project, but it would seem that what makes one antenna better than another is its design, and you already have a design that you know works to your satisfaction.

Yeah, that thought is starting to occur to me. The plastic for the VHF elements after being exposed to UV for 16 years is still fine, they weren't brittle when I folded up the elements. One element was bent slightly (as shown in one of the pictures) from a fat bird or owl.

And I was able to get up there before the UHF section fell to the ground and lower it gently down.

I would have to remove one of the top/bottom boom connectors as that is where the UHF section snapped. Ideally I would like to find square aluminum tubing one inch ID to slide over the break.

Replacing the boom itself would be too much. Lots of rivets to pop and then holes to drill for new rivets.

Then I would have to replace the phasing wires (or whatever they're called) on the boom that connected the VHF elements together. Both tore off then the UHF section snapped.
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post #3136 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 08:14 PM
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What kind of CM antenna do you have in the attic? It's not a Stereo Probe 9, is it? (http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/probe.jpg)

I wouldn't think that an FM antenna and a VHF-Hi + UHF antenna would have much more wind load than that 937 monster.

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post #3137 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 10:07 PM
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What kind of CM antenna do you have in the attic? It's not a Stereo Probe 9, is it? (http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/probe.jpg)

I wouldn't think that an FM antenna and a VHF-Hi + UHF antenna would have much more wind load than that 937 monster.

Not sure, as it's been up in the garage attic longer than the tower setup. Plus I bought it used. So 20 years old would not surprise me. And it's been awhile since I last stuck my head up there. Looks similar, probably close to 10 feet long (going from memory). Definitely does not have those diagonal supports going to the mast.
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post #3138 of 3306 Old 07-05-2011, 10:38 PM
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tachmn, as you no doubt know, location is everything. Looks like you have a pretty good one. Antenna height helps a lot, too.

When I was house hunting back in 1993 and was at the open house here, the first thing I did was fire up the TV and rotate the roof mounted antenna towards La Crosse to see if it would pick up WKBT. The NFC at that time was still on CBS. I had a ten foot dish in NYS and watched the backhauls with natural audio there (no way was I going to follow NY teams, two of which do not even play in NYS!). (Don Majkowski Replay Game natural audio backhaul tape anyone?) But CBS started encrypting the backhauls with Videocipher I. The affiliate feeds were still in the clear due to a threatened boycott of beer purchases by sports bar patrons. But I knew the clock was ticking on the affiliate feeds remaining clear.

But I could watch the Packers on WKBT 8. But then Fox got the NFC contract and WLAX picked it up. Phooey! Was snowy at best, even with the tower. But the digital signal bombed in. The transmitter is on this side of the river, I do not know if it is closer than the analog site. But that was one positive outcome of the digital transition.

I made a point to try and find a house that wasn't in the bowl of Rochester. Don't see a whole lot of antennas driving around in town. As I mentioned in a previous post at the top of the tower I have unobstructed views to the horizon N, W, and S. I have to look through trees to the E, but I am still above the terrain.

So that has worked out pretty well. And DX'ing tropo during the summer was a blast. Wichita, Omaha, to name a couple last summer. I recently picked up a couple of Madison stations briefly with that foot or so twinlead remnant.
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post #3139 of 3306 Old 07-12-2011, 07:43 PM
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Has anyone else noticed that a tuner or TV receiving over the air channel 47.2 (MeTV), will occasionally start displaying the video and audio of 47.1 (Fox)? I've been having it happen a lot on my Digital Stream tuner (Radio Shack SD converter box) and a couple of times on my Samsung HDTV. When it occurs on the tuner, it still indicates that it's tuned to 47.2, but the program it's showing is 47.1! I've rescanned both, and it's happened again on both.


Edit: Since posting the above less than an hour ago, it's occured again to both devices plus another tuner (an HD model, that instead of displaying 47.1, switched to a blank screen with a message about loss of signal). I notice it when I looked up from my work at about 10:02pm, so it may have occured at 10:00pm, if that means anything.
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post #3140 of 3306 Old 08-04-2011, 01:50 PM
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Does anyone have any experience with the HD Stacker antenna from Denny's?
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post #3141 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 10:13 AM
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I just sold my parents my two year old 32" 720p Sharp LCD as I upgraded the TV in my room. They subscribe to basic cable right now, and have no plans to upgrade and have to get cable boxes, etc. They also have a 19" 720p LCD in their kitchen. I think that they should just get OTA antennas, but I know nothing about them. They don't want to have to put anything on the roof or in the attic. They are also extremely cheap, so can't suggest anything too expensive.

They live in the Apple Ridge neighborhood in SW Rochester. Which antennae would be best for them? I was thinking something from Monoprice, but I have no idea which one would be best. Here are the options I'm looking at in order of cheapest to most expensive:

1. HDTV Indoor Antenna
2. Indoor HDTV Antenna with One Rod - Black Color
3. HD Digital Indoor Antenna
4. HDTV Indoor / Outdoor Antenna
5. HDTV Indoor / Outdoor Antenna w/ Low Noise Amplifier
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post #3142 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 11:57 AM
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They live in the Apple Ridge neighborhood in SW Rochester. Which antennae would be best for them? I was thinking something from Monoprice, but I have no idea which one would be best. Here are the options I'm looking at in order of cheapest to most expensive:

Rochester is a poor city for indoor antennas and none of the options you selected are likely to work. Your best bet is the Terk HDTVa, which runs $40 on a popular web site named after a large river. Depending on local topography and location within the house, this probably is not enough.

Cheap I understand, but Charter lifeline is $180/year. An expensive antenna will quickly pay for itself. But almost any digital TV should have a QAM tuner (unless it was so-called "HDTV-ready) which would get the major OTA channels in HD without a cable box with lifeline service.

An attic antenna might work, like the Channel Master 4228. But it depends on how high up they are and how clear their view is to the SSW.
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post #3143 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 12:31 PM
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The clear QAM trick (where you hook the TV up to cable and get un-encrypted local channels, music choice and some other misc.) actually works with just Charter internet service. That would be the most economical route.

Would you post the address results from TVFool.com? That would give a better idea of signal levels. Some of SW is deep in a valley, while others is up at 1200+ ft where reception of Twin Cities, Rochester and LaCrosse is easy.

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post #3144 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 04:25 PM
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They are in the valley. You are probably right that indoor antennae won't work.

Right now they have the basic Charter package for dirt cheap, and when the TV programmed all the channels it did get all the digital ones. They don't have high speed internet right now, but are thinking of getting it. Are you saying that if they go to internet only, they will still be able to get all the digital channels that the TV was able to pick up when it programmed?
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post #3145 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 04:26 PM
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Are you saying that if they go to internet only, they will still be able to get all the digital channels that the TV was able to pick up when it programmed?

Yes.

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post #3146 of 3306 Old 08-21-2011, 04:32 PM
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Yes.

Great, I will pass that info along to them. As long as my Dad gets Jeopardy and the news, and my mother gets Desperate Housewives they are happy.
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post #3147 of 3306 Old 08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
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a popular web site named after a large river.

I thought it was named after the women.
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post #3148 of 3306 Old 09-07-2011, 06:59 PM
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Anybody having problems getting this channel OTA? I was getting it fine until yesterday. Now nothing. I'm getting 3, 6, 15, and 47 fine, but not 10.
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post #3149 of 3306 Old 09-08-2011, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by greiland View Post

Anybody having problems getting this channel OTA? I was getting it fine until yesterday. Now nothing. I'm getting 3, 6, 15, and 47 fine, but not 10.

Looks fine to me. Sometimes equipment problems happen, even at the biggest stations. Still having problems this morning? If so, what is your setup and where (approximately) are you located?
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post #3150 of 3306 Old 09-08-2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Looks fine to me. Sometimes equipment problems happen, even at the biggest stations. Still having problems this morning? If so, what is your setup and where (approximately) are you located?

Yes, still having problems. I think it might be my antenna amplifier. I have another TV that is further away from my antenna and I can now only get channel 6 on that TV. My main TV is getting a signal below 50% for channel 10. I live in Marion (just south of Rochester by I-90). I'm high up on a hill and my antenna is an indoor/outdoor antenna and is located in my attic. It's worked perfectly for the last couple years until now. I may buy a new amplifier and see if that does the trick.
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