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post #3331 of 3354 Old 10-20-2014, 05:55 PM
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My elevation is 1,104 feet... a bit higher than LaCrosse, WI.. but dont really see anywhere, where it tells me if that elevation will pick up certain channels. I get the feeling I really need to just try it.. and see.. to find out one way or the other.
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post #3332 of 3354 Old 10-20-2014, 05:56 PM
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My elevation is 1,014 feet... a bit higher than LaCrosse, WI.. but dont really see anywhere, where it tells me if that elevation will pick up certain channels. I get the feeling I really need to just try it.. and see.. to find out one way or the other.
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post #3333 of 3354 Old 10-20-2014, 06:43 PM
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Elevation of your location and the intervening terrain matters

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Originally Posted by ccgaskell View Post
My elevation is 1,014 feet... a bit higher than LaCrosse, WI.. but dont really see anywhere, where it tells me if that elevation will pick up certain channels. I get the feeling I really need to just try it.. and see.. to find out one way or the other.
My home is in west Rochester up on the hill (1,130 feet) above the gravel pit you pass when you approach town from the west. TVFool says I'm 1.7 miles farther from the LAX Fox transmitter than you, and my signal strength of the LAX Fox (channel 17) is shown to be 24 dB stronger than yours. No doubt the 116 ft difference in elevation makes the difference. 'sorry to say this, but don't get your hopes up too much.
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post #3334 of 3354 Old 10-20-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AMF8270 View Post
My home is in west Rochester up on the hill (1,130 feet) above the gravel pit you pass when you approach town from the west. TVFool says I'm 1.7 miles farther from the LAX Fox transmitter than you, and my signal strength of the LAX Fox (channel 17) is shown to be 24 dB stronger than yours. No doubt the 116 ft difference in elevation makes the difference. 'sorry to say this, but don't get your hopes up too much.
May I ask what kind of antenna you have ?
how it is mounted - tri pod vs J bar ?
where it is mounted ? roof top vs attic..
use of AMP, pre AMP or whatever else might affect reception..

THanks for sharing and the heads up on lowering my expectations.. unfortunately, bleakness is setting in...
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post #3335 of 3354 Old 10-20-2014, 09:51 PM
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What matters is not really your elevation, but local obstructions blocking the signal. I would assume the Assisi Heights ridge is in line with LaCrosse.

In case you wanted to know the gory technical details of diffraction:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/siting.html

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/sizing.html
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post #3336 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 06:18 AM
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Thanks Mattdp.. a lot of interesting reading there. I will start researching rotators and the type of base I want.. tri pod vs j bar.. etc , best deals on RG6 cable..how much I need.. amps and splitters... and form a plan. I have watched enough DIY install videos that "maybe" I am willing to tackle this thing myself.. I may call a local place for an estimate.. just to compare. Glad ai happened across this forum, and should i venture into the land of antenna owner, I will be sure to post my results... but will continue to gather data from anyone willing to share..
Thanks
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post #3337 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 11:55 AM
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Hi I am new.
Someone needs to start up a business around Rochester for the set up of antennas and watch the money roll in. Charter has a huge monopoly. The only place I could find is in Byron and they are busy. (go figure). Anyway would I need a Rotator on an antenna if i got a multi-directional antenna?
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post #3338 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 05:13 PM
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Charter Clear QAM

Just noticed tonight my dual tuner HDHomerun can no longer tune to the local clear QAM channels on Charter. At first I thought maybe Charter moved them so did a scan and only 105-1 was found. It appears to be the small video on the previews channel. Anyone else noticing clear QAM issues or have any insight?
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post #3339 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoobella99 View Post
Someone needs to start up a business around Rochester for the set up of antennas and watch the money roll in.
Working on it

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Originally Posted by zoobella99 View Post
The only place I could find is in Byron and they are busy. (go figure).
How busy? Did they give you a "were backed up until.."


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Originally Posted by zoobella99 View Post
Anyway would I need a Rotator on an antenna if i got a multi-directional antenna?
Most every antenna picks up best from the front and has more limited reception from the back. You'll get essentially zero signal from the sides. You wouldn't need a rotor for the Rochester/Austin/Mason City stations because they are relatively close together. You'd get a solid signal on 56 in any direction (because it's so close), but for distant stuff like LaCrosse, Eau Clare or the Twin Cities, you would need a rotor.

Could you post a TVFool.com report? That will determine what's actually available.


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Originally Posted by Xeriph View Post
Just noticed tonight my dual tuner HDHomerun can no longer tune to the local clear QAM channels on Charter. At first I thought maybe Charter moved them so did a scan and only 105-1 was found. It appears to be the small video on the previews channel. Anyone else noticing clear QAM issues or have any insight?
As fortold by another member a page or two back, Charter drops all Clear QAM when they go all digital.

Last edited by mattdp; 10-21-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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post #3340 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 06:23 PM
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Thanks, not sure how I missed the clear QAM discussion. Guess it is time to change settings to 100% OTA. It is pretty crappy Charter is choosing to encrypt local channels while claiming they have to make these changes in the transition to all-digital. Cuz everyone knows you can't go all-digital without adding encryption to the existing digital channels!
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post #3341 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 06:28 PM
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I believe they are moving to a completely "switched" system where channels get delivered to a particular node only by request of the cable box. Hence axing fixed Clear QAM assignments is technically necessary.
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post #3342 of 3354 Old 10-21-2014, 08:10 PM
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Understandable, but from a technical standpoint I still wonder if they could have continued with locals in clear QAM and the rest of the channels switched...if they wanted to? That would have allowed people to tune in to local channels on secondary TV's in the household without the need for box.
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post #3343 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 12:14 AM
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So when does our internet speed go up?
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post #3344 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:15 AM
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They just told me it was going to be a while before they could come out and give me a quote of any kind but I was welcome to come in the store and chat.




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Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
Working on it


How busy? Did they give you a "were backed up until.."



Most every antenna picks up best from the front and has more limited reception from the back. You'll get essentially zero signal from the sides. You wouldn't need a rotor for the Rochester/Austin/Mason City stations because they are relatively close together. You'd get a solid signal on 56 in any direction (because it's so close), but for distant stuff like LaCrosse, Eau Clare or the Twin Cities, you would need a rotor.

Could you post a TVFool.com report? That will determine what's actually available.



As fortold by another member a page or two back, Charter drops all Clear QAM when they go all digital.
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post #3345 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:18 AM
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They just told me it was going to be a while before they could come out and give me a quote of any kind but I was welcome to come in the store and chat.
Have any of you worked with Denny's antennas. He recommended two antennas for me, just not sure if there is something better
His message said:

The signals are rated moderate in strength at your location. In the attic I wouldn't go with anything less than the HD Stacker antenna. Along with the antenna I recommend the CM 7777 preamplifier.

Outdoors you can use the EZ HD antenna with the CM 7777 preamplifier.

Install the antenna aiming South.

You can expect quality reception from ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS plus all sub channels offered by these stations. About 14 channels total.

If you have any questions or if I can assist you further please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best Regards,
Denny Duplessis
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post #3346 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:31 AM
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Denny's HD Stacker is his own product. It's a legitimate antenna, but it's a ripoff at $129. Add a 7777 at $72 and you're at $201

Here's a better antenna system:

Solid Signal HDB 91X UHF antenna $46.99

Antennacraft Y-10-7-13 VHF antenna $43.99

RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier $21.99

$112.97

Both antennas I recommended should have more gain than the stacker and from what I know the TVPRAMP1R is actually a clone of the 7777 (per some technical teardown threads on another forum).

Last edited by mattdp; 10-22-2014 at 08:16 AM.
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post #3347 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
Denny's HD Stacker is his own products. It's a legitimate product, but it's a ripoff at $129. Add a 7777 at $72 and you're at $201

Here's a better antenna system:

Solid Signal HDB 91X UHF antenna $46.99

Antennacraft Y-10-7-13 VHF antenna $43.99

RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier $21.99

$112.97

Both antennas I recommended should have more gain than the stacker and from what I know the TVPRAMP1R is actually a clone of the 7777 (per some technical teardown threads on another forum).
Thanks a million.
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post #3348 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 11:09 AM
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The RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier is on sale at Menards through 10/25 for $19.62.

The RCA programmable rotor VH126R is also on sale for $55.59.

(Menards has a 20% off sale on RCA products every so often.)
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post #3349 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 01:27 PM
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Thanks a million.
If you buy those 2 antennas, what brings them together into one ? I have heard the term combiner.. is that an additional cost item ? and do you hook the two antennas together in this somewhere on the roof top ? or is that done in the house where you connect to the splitter ?
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post #3350 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 01:42 PM
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The RCA TVPRAMP1R and CM 7777 can run separate UHF/VHF inputs from or one combined feed. In cases where you don't need a preamp, PICO MACOM makes a $6 passive combiner called a VUSJ. You would install either right at the antenna.
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post #3351 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
The RCA TVPRAMP1R and CM 7777 can run separate UHF/VHF inputs from or one combined feed. In cases where you don't need a preamp, PICO MACOM makes a $6 passive combiner called a VUSJ. You would install either right at the antenna.
I've tried the VUSJ and was disappointed in its ability to pass the UHF side. Is there a better performing one ? It can be more than $6, but let's stay below professional level devices.
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post #3352 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:09 PM
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I need to know your thoughts. I talked to the owner of the only Antenna store in the Rochester area; Campion Antenna Service LLC tonight. I live in the NW part of Rochester near Holy Spirit church, he said ball park figure for an antenna, amp, grounding and hook up would be $450-$500. Seems a bit steep but what are you thoughts? I tried getting out of him what kind of antenna he uses and he didn't say. Just a 6 foot yard antenna and an amp. If I needed something bigger it would be $750. He says I might expect some channels to work real well and some to not work as well some days. Is this just the way of the world of antennas or just his? ( I am from the cities and could get reception using an indoor antenna with no problem ever).
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post #3353 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccgaskell View Post
May I ask what kind of antenna you have ?
how it is mounted - tri pod vs J bar ?
where it is mounted ? roof top vs attic..
use of AMP, pre AMP or whatever else might affect reception..

THanks for sharing and the heads up on lowering my expectations.. unfortunately, bleakness is setting in...
For LAX I have an 8-bay Channelmaster in the attic of my garage looking through the roof towards 105deg, using the Channelmaster 7777 preamp. It receives 17, 30, and 48. The antenna's just resting against a wooden strut holding up the roof, with a couple of nylon tie-wraps to keep it from moving! I've also got a Y10-7-13 to pick up channel 8, but it doesn't work as well now as it did years ago. It's on a J bar in the same attic looking through the roof towards 85deg, but may have shifted a bit.

For Rochester, I have a 4-bay Channelmaster in the same attic looking through the gable end's wood walls with vinyl siding towards 190deg using another Channelmaster 7777. It receives 10, 18, 20, 36, 42 and 46. Like the other UHF antenna, its just resting on a piece of wood, and tie-wrapped to prevent movement. It's a 4-bay because when the digital transition occurred, channel 36 was transmitted from farther west, which required an antenna that could receive well across a span of about 45deg to pick up all of the stations. This restricted me to a medium strength antenna with the broader pickup, thus the 4-bay. Some time later, 36's transmitter was moved to the same tower that transmits 20 and 46. So now an antenna is required to receive across a span of only about 12deg. So if I was to put up a new antenna, I'd probably put in an 8-bay and not need the preamp at all.

If you can put in an 8-bay facing south, it might pick up all of rochester's locals, and you might not need a preamp, depending on how many loads you have.

Last edited by AMF8270; 10-22-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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post #3354 of 3354 Old 10-22-2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoobella99 View Post
he said ball park figure for an antenna, amp, grounding and hook up would be $450-$500. Seems a bit steep but what are you thoughts? I tried getting out of him what kind of antenna he uses and he didn't say. Just a 6 foot yard antenna and an amp. If I needed something bigger it would be $750.
That doesn't include a rotor, correct?

This is what has me thinking seriously about a business. I've heard numbers in that ballpark before.

Let's assume they install Winegard. Their biggest combo antenna is the 7698 ($120). Add on a Winegard Boost XT Preamplifier (their only preamp model) at $52.00 and you're at $172. Figure another $100 for mounting hardware, cabling, etc. So that's ~$300 in materials (for the $750 install). $400 if that includes a rotor.

For reference, I spec'd out a full (no rotor) fringe install for $184. The parts list is attached as a spreadsheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoobella99 View Post
He says I might expect some channels to work real well and some to not work as well some days. Is this just the way of the world of antennas or just his? ( I am from the cities and could get reception using an indoor antenna with no problem ever).
Digital TV requires 16db signal-to-noise ratio to decode. Above 16, it just works. Dipping below 16, you'll get dropouts. And constantly below 16, you'll see a signal on the TV's signal meter but no picture.

Atmospheric noise decreases a tad at night and you will occasionally get some tropospheric ducting to enhance signal. When the leaves drop off the trees, UHF reception in particular can improve (depending on your location). Thus, the worst time for reception the middle of the day in summer.

Any competent installer should be able to install a large enough antenna at proper height/location as to make those small variations unnoticeable (barring really weak fringe stations of course). Looking at your TVFool report, there's almost no way you're not getting Rochester stations no matter what you do.

Windy days and trees can cause variable multipath which can cause breakups. I've never had it be an issue with an outdoor directional antenna. Planes are another source of variable multipath, but again... this has never been an issue for me.

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For Rochester, I have a 4-bay Channelmaster in the same attic looking through the gable end's wood walls with vinyl siding towards 190deg using another Channelmaster 7777. It receives 10, 18, 20, 36, 42 and 46. Like the other UHF antenna, its just resting on a piece of wood, and tie-wrapped to prevent movement. It's a 4-bay because when the digital transition occurred, channel 36 was transmitted from farther west, which required an antenna that could receive well across a span of about 45deg to pick up all of the stations. This restricted me to a medium strength antenna with the broader pickup, thus the 4-bay. Some time later, 36's transmitter was moved to the same tower that transmits 20 and 46.
IIRC, KAAL was on 33 from their old "out west" tower initially, started multicasting on 36, then jacked up the ERP and took 33 offline. Gotta love the old analog days when Rochester had five different towers over a 75 degree span.
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Last edited by mattdp; 10-22-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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