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post #3451 of 3463 Old 03-21-2016, 07:03 PM
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A 60 foot tower would look out of place in my neighborhood, especially with a quad array on top. I agree it would do the job.

The problem I have is that the reception is good (Channel 47) for a few seconds to several minutes and then breaks up. It sort of looks like interference.

Also the problem appears to happen when it is windy.

In the last few months I have only watched the NASCAR races on Sunday afternoon. Channel 47 (Fox) was crap for the first few races which were on windy days and the last couple of races were fine and were calm days. Also Channel 47 cleared up on the bad days when the wind went down later in the day.

It sounds like a 91XG is 2 to 3 db better then my 9032 and a Kitztech KT-200 would be a better amp. Neither is very expensive.
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post #3452 of 3463 Old 03-21-2016, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsas View Post
The problem I have is that the reception is good (Channel 47) for a few seconds to several minutes and then breaks up. It sort of looks like interference.

Also the problem appears to happen when it is windy.

In the last few months I have only watched the NASCAR races on Sunday afternoon. Channel 47 (Fox) was crap for the first few races which were on windy days and the last couple of races were fine and were calm days. Also Channel 47 cleared up on the bad days when the wind went down later in the day.
You're dealing with dynamic multipath interference. Which is the bane of the current ATSC standard. In a few years (unless of course they sell off the whole TV spectrum) we'll be on ATSC 3.0 which is immune to dynamic multipath.

I know that newer tuners handle dynamic multipath better than older models. Don't know if that's applicable or not.

The key is to get the tightest pickup pattern possible in order to maximize the direct:reflected signal ratio. Obviously, dial in that rotor as best you can. And according to these models (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html), the 91XG has a little bit tighter pattern and higher f/b ratio than the 9032, plus another 1.5db gain at ch. 46. Swapping to a Kitztech could get you another 2db.
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post #3453 of 3463 Old 04-03-2016, 02:32 PM
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I know this is way off subject but from what I read ATSC 3.0 will not be compatible with the current standard.
That means that all current ATSC devices will go dark. I suppose there will be some sort of converter box to allow current devices to work with the new standard.
Since most people are satisfied with the current standard it may be a hard sell for ATSC 3.0 unless there is a good reason to change.
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post #3454 of 3463 Old 04-03-2016, 03:03 PM
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The current ATSC standard is actually MASSIVELY out of date.

First off, it uses MPEG 2 and Dolby Digital compression - codecs that were state-of-the-art in 1993. The current industry standard, h.265 is massively (orders of magnitude) more efficient. With h.265, stations can broadcast in 4k and/or offer more subchannels.

Secondly (and probably most importantly), the current ATSC standard uses 8VSB modulation which is very sensitive to dynamic multipath (trees, planes, etc). ATSC 3 uses COFDM which is essentially immune to multipath. This would eliminate issues with trees and airplane. Plus, one could view ATSC 3 in the car.

Converter boxes could conceivably look like a ROKU HDMI dongle. And probably cost something like $50.

With the FCC's whole spectrum buyback deal going on, there's legitimate question as to whether we'll even see OTA TV continuing long enough for ATSC 3 to even be implemented.
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post #3455 of 3463 Old 06-01-2016, 04:01 PM
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I finally did something and got both the Kitztech KT-200 and 91XG. The Kitz came first and it made a big difference! I don't know whether the Kitz is that good or the old Archer amp was that bad.
A few days later the 91XG came and when I put it up I got nothing, no reception. It turns out the power supply on the Kitz went bad, just when I put up the new antenna. A $90 dollar amp with a two cent power supply.
The 91XG did not make enough difference that I could say it is better then the old Winegard 9032. Actually I started with a DB8 which probably is close the both the 91XG and 9032.
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post #3456 of 3463 Old 06-01-2016, 04:12 PM
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I'd call up Kitztech and get them to ship you a new one ASAP.

It's probably that your Archer was, indeed, that bad.
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post #3457 of 3463 Old 06-01-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
Looking at the TVFool report, it looks like Rochester stations are your only option due to geography. KIMT (CBS) and KYIN (Iowa PBS) are getting rather weak, so you will need a decent antenna.

Denny's HD Stacker is a legit antenna, but it's a complete rippoff at that price. And you could get a better performing antenna for less than half the cost.

I'd go with an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp, available at Menards for $20 which is on par with an LNA-200. Set it to separate UHF/VHF inputs and keep the FM trap on. Preamp will cover your splitter and cable losses with plenty of margin to spare.

The best antenna for the money would be:
-Stellar Labs Deep Fringe UHF antenna ($39): http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2415-/30-2415

-Stellar Labs Fringe VHF-Hi antenna ($25):http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2475-/30-2475

I'd always err on the side of having too much antenna rather than too little. And I don't think a Flatwave would cut it.

Mount with a 3ft tripod and 1 1/4" EMT conduit (also available from Menards). I attached a picture of that stack on a 10ft mast. You could probably cut yours down to 5ft.

(I did a retrofit install with those same two antennas about a mile west, up the hill from P.I. Very well constructed and they got TCs very well).

Put the UHF on top and the VHF-Hi about 3ft below it. Aim the UHF at KIMT/KYIN (184) and the VHF-Hi at KTTC (167).

Your available channel lineup should be:


3.1 CBS
3.2 MyNet
3.3 ION


6.1 ABC
6.2 ThisTV


10.1 NBC
10.2 CW
10.3 Heroes & Icons


15.1 PBS
15.2 MHZ Worldview
15.3 Create
15.4 tpt MN


24.1 PBS
24.2 PBS Kids/Create
24.3 PBS World


47.1 FOX
47.2 MeTV


58.1 3ABN
58.2 3ABN Proclaim
58.3 3ABN Dare to Dream
58.4 3ABN Latino
58.5 3ABN Radio
58.6 3ABN Radio Latino
58.7 Radio 74
Quick update on my situation, I did everything you told me to do and it all works like a charm. Only ones I can't get are the channel 24 pbs stations. I get the CBS station which is the same direction as pbs and same distance. Not sure why it's not coming in. Maybe I need to fine tune where it is pointing. I did the 2" emt conduit over top my DTV mount cut at 5.5 ft. Went up easier than I thought it would. Thanks for the advice! I owe you a cold one.
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post #3458 of 3463 Old 06-01-2016, 04:55 PM
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I'd like to see a pic of it if you don't mind.

3 and 24 are on the same tower. 3 broadcasts 800kW omnidirectional at 1520ft. 24 is 1473ft and 533kw, but they've got weird oval pattern that puts you right on the fringe. http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1316563&map=Y

For contrast, here's 3: http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1304426&map=Y

The TVFool for your location puts 24 5db below 3.

Is the UHF antenna pointed directly at 3/24? You could swap the UHF for a 91XG or clone which could give you a few extra db of gain: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2370-/30-2370
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post #3459 of 3463 Old 06-01-2016, 05:19 PM
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Yeah from what I can tell it is pointing at 184 degrees. Used phone compass.
Pic:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...c2W5PyvbaYorSc
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post #3460 of 3463 Old 06-02-2016, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
3 and 24 are on the same tower. 3 broadcasts 800kW omnidirectional at 1520ft. 24 is 1473ft and 533kw, but they've got weird oval pattern that puts you right on the fringe.
To answer the inevitable "why do they have a weird oval pattern" question that I'm sure will come up recall that WQOW in Eau Claire was channel 18 in analog, while KYIN digital is also on 18. KYIN had to protect WQOW until the analog went away in 2009.

Recall also that WLAX digital in La Crosse is on channel 17. That's actually the limiting factor today; if you look at the interference analysis that was submitted to the FCC when KYIN asked to boost power in 2008, KYIN causes 0.499% interference to WLAX, just shy of the FCC's 0.5% limit.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #3461 of 3463 Old 06-13-2016, 01:48 PM
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KIMT CBS 3 sold today

With backing from an Atlanta private equity firm, former Gray exec Bob Prather agrees to pay $115 million for five small-market network affils: Nexstar's WFFT Ft. Wayne, Ind. (Fox, DMA 111) and KQTV St. Joseph, Mo. (ABC, DMA 201), and Media General's KIMT Rochester, Minn.; (CBS, DMA 153), WTHI Terra Haute, Ind. (CBS, DMA 155); and WLFI Lafayette, Ind. (CBS, DMA 187).

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/9...xstarmedia-gen

This is part of the Nexstar/Media General buyout.
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post #3462 of 3463 Old 06-14-2016, 06:55 PM
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thats 4 owners in 4 years for KIMT
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post #3463 of 3463 Old 07-06-2016, 10:43 AM
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Exclamation Update On Campion Antenna

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Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
It used to be that Rochester had two antenna installers: Norman Communications (installing Delhi/Jerrod/Wade) and G & S Antenna Byron (installing Winegard). Norman went under ~10 yrs ago and I think G&S hung it up like 3yrs ago. There's now a Campion Antenna in Byron. I would assume they're somehow related to G & S, so I would presume they install Winegard equipment. http://www.campionantenna.com/

Want to post your TVFool.com results or tell us relatively where you are in town? That would give a good idea what you can get. You may be able to get by with an attic install.
Long time since I have been out to look at this website.
Last night's lightning strike to my system, brought me back.
I have a large Rohn tower that is approx. 30 years old now, with a large VHF and UHF antenna on it.
Top of the line system back in the day.
Anyway, my preamp power supply got zapped last night.
Called Dan Campion at Campion antenna, and he was able to find a used preamp power supply, in the array of used items
he has in his garage.
I am back up and running, getting all of the Wisconsin channels I use.
Dan used to install the antennas for G & S back in the day.
Started his own business, I assume Gordy at G & S retired?
So if you are looking for help with new or used antenna equipment, Dan can help you out.
I am not affiliated with Dan at all, just impressed to find someone with his knowledge base that is still in the business.
Nice to have.
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