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Old 08-25-2004, 10:50 AM
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agregjones,

Although, I was talking a lot about analog signal, I receive the digital OTA signals from 12/48 and the other channels I mentioned. Just wanted to clarify just in case my post was misleading.

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Old 08-25-2004, 11:12 AM
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Periodically I do do make adjustments of our signal usually late night as I have to go off the air to do it. But I have always transmitted 100% power and my adjustments do not have to do with reception issues but with PQ issues. It has been my experience with indoor antennas that you can get a good picture sometimes but unless the transmitter is very close the picture will be unreliable on analog that will cause ghosting or a noisy pic. but on digital that can cause no picture.

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Old 08-25-2004, 04:02 PM
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Ken12,

Thanx for the clarification... I always wondered about strength of signal as compared to signal orientation. Glad to know how that actually works. I'm sure if I had an outdoor antenna, I would get better signal quality (analog wise). Now that I have the digital receiver though, I'm pretty much done with analog. The only time I really have any breakup of 12/48 signal is usually very late at night; usually around 2-4 in the morning. Otherwise, I have a solid picture unless my indoor gets knocked around somehow.

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Old 08-26-2004, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone confirmed UPN 48 on Dishnetwork yet?

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:03 PM
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Anyone else picking up 7.2? It's coming up on my stb as WITN Radar SD. Right now, they are simulcasting regular programming from WITN 7 analog. I guess the radar will come online later. Or does anybody know if they're going to do an additional subchannel?

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:04 PM
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I'm picking up WITN's SD Feed on subchannel 7-2. I've not had a tuner for too long, but have never seen this. It is obviously not very bandwidth-heavy, not to compete with the high-bandwidth Olympic feed on the main channel. I applaud them for this decision not to draw too much off of the Olympic HD coverage and still provide a way for those of use with digital tuners a chance to see the primetime programming.

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:11 PM
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Normally, I'm not that big a fan of subchannels, since they degrade the picture quality of the signals. The exception would be the current situation with NBC (24 hours of HD coverage separate from the primetime lineup, local coverage). Another good example was the coverage of the NCAA basketball tournament on subchannels to show all games concurrently.

In the case of WCTI and the UPN subchannel, I would bet that the UPN subchannel is not getting nearly as much bandwidth as the main one.

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:21 PM
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I agree with you on the use of bandwith to create subchannels. As long as the broadcaster doesn't steal too much from the main HD channel, I feel they are alright. I think WRAL and Capitol Broadcasting has done a pretty good job with both CBS 5 and FOX 50. When I look at their subchannels, they still look better than regular analog and the HD channels are fantastic and very little pixelation. I hope our local broadcasters can find that happen medium as well. I do like the idea of being able to catch the news when it's convienent for me since I'm not always at home during "regular" news broadcasting times. That's why I'd like to see our locals give us a news/weather subchannel. I'm hoping that's the route WITN is going with. I agree with you about UPN 48. The picture is pretty good for a subchannel, but not the cleanest picture I've ever seen.

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:25 PM
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BTW Greg,

Did you have any luck receiving WCTI DT 12/48 with an indoor antenna? Or are you going the other route with an outdoor antenna. I know just the other day you mentioned not having very good reception. Now, you mentioned the pic on UPN 48. Does this mean you're getting the signal now?

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:36 PM
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I can get the analog signal of WCTI fairly well, but get no pic on the digital signal. My receiver sometimes locks onto the signal when searching but never gives a picture for it. Right now, I am using (alternatively) a Terk HDTVi and an RCA 48db amplified indoor antenna. Both get phenomenal signals for WITN and WNCT but nothing else digital. Most of the area analog signals are picked up fairly well but I am hoping to stay with all digital signals.

My next trial was going to be with a Radio Shack 15-2160 or VU-75 XR. I would rather attic mount them but will put up a mast if I have to. I even toyed with the idea of two 15-2160's (with identical cable runs, I know); one pointed at Raleigh and one pointed to New Bern (which from here is the six degrees off the WITN and WNCT tower).

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:43 PM
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Good luck man. I myself want to get an antenna to mount in my attic with an amplifier. I know I'll never get as good a reception as if it was roof mounted but I've been pretty impressed with what I've gotten with my indoor antenna, so I think an attic install is the way to go for me. See what else if anything I can pull. I'm really crossing my fingers for 22 and 28 out of rdu and maybe some stuff from Wilmington and Norfolk. I've already gotten WWAY out of Wilmington with my indoor antenna, so with an attic mount, I don't think it's too far out of the realm of possibilities.

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Old 08-26-2004, 02:58 PM
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FYI for everyone:

This came from NBC17ENG on the RDU thread-

NBC lost their HD feed from the truck in Athens shortly after 5:00 PM tjhis afternoon. We switched to our News until they can get the signal back up. Presently New York is uplinking some SD filler, but they are dead in the water with HD for a little while. It will be interesting to see how many spare parts they took over there.
We'll punch up the HD feed as soon as it becomes available.

This is unrelated to WITN beginning their multicasting. Just so everyone knows.

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Old 08-26-2004, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I just spoke to Mike Weeks last week GM of WITN about doing a sub channel like a radar or SD of WITN, he said it was coming . Also emailed WNCT and they said sub channel planned some time in 2005

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Old 08-26-2004, 09:04 PM
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Jamielee,

I remember reading your post about talking to the folks at 7 and 9 about multicasting. That's why I got such a kick today when 7.2 came on the air. I was trying like hell to get on here and post about it. It's wild that they did it so soon after you talked to them. That was the first time I've seen a channel come on the air. The main HD channel was breaking up as they were pulling bandwith to create the new channel. I guess this is how it works anyway. At first the picture was real distorted like Realplayer used to be when internet was only 28.8 or 33.6, but over about 20 minutes it became a clear picture and the audio was added. At first they simulcasted the analog feed of Maury and 7 news at 5, 5:30, and 6. Then about 15 minutes in to the 6 o'clock news, it went to the radar. It was really interesting to watch it happen.

Whatever you're saying when you're talking to these folks, keep it up. You are definitely getting some results!

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Old 08-26-2004, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea Mike comes into where I work and I started talking to him one day about HD and told him I had it and we talked for about 15 mins, now when he comes in we talk and email. Hes a real good guy, very interesting to talk to.

I emailed him tonight to thank him about the new channel, also asked was this a 24/7 radar or would some news or other shows air.

let you know.


Seems like our little thread is starting to grow a little.

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Old 08-26-2004, 09:31 PM
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Yeah, the thread here is starting to grow it seems.

I'm glad you asked whether this new subchannel will be only the radar or a combo news/weather channel. If you remember one of my early posts, NBC at the NAB convention this year announced plans for all of it's affiliates to have local weather channels. I wonder if what we're seeing now is the preliminary stages of what is to come.

I know Phillip Williams over at WNCT and have mentioned to him the idea of subchannels. This was at least a couple of months ago. He said, as you've confirmed, that they've been tossing that ball around. At that time, there were no firm plans for anything.

My understanding of Media General, which owns 9, is that they are kind of tight on the purse strings. So, I'm not surprised that it won't be until 2005 or later that they begin the multicasting. But then again, who knows?

I sure didn't expect WITN to pop up a new channel today around 4:30! *lol*

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Old 08-27-2004, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I asked mike about the NBC weather ch he said NBC wanted a high amount of money for this and it was something they could do there self.

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Old 08-27-2004, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Got a email from Mike about Ch 7.2

Glad you liked it. We put it on to make sure we had the technical know how. Will take it down later today as our permanent method of putting 24/7 on the air will go through a different technical method. Now that we can do it we will do more.

We are looking at adding a 24/7 channel. Hope to do so by the 1st of the year... local weather channel on HD as well as cable. SSHHHHH, dont tell my competitors.
Mike D. Weeks

_________________________________________________________

So look for 7.2 to go off later today.

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Old 08-27-2004, 07:21 AM
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Jamielee,

You get all the inside info... COOL! If I'm reading this right, I would assume the radar channel will be taken down until the first of the year when they add their 24/7 channel? Or am I misreading this? Or are they taking down 7.2 to build it into a full fledged weather channel like WRAL 5.2? I wonder how long that will take and when 7.2 will be back online? Interesting information though...

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Old 08-27-2004, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Im thinking 7.2 was a test and some sort of news/wx channel will come in January.

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Old 08-27-2004, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder when WNCT DT will fix the very low audio on the local portions of Ch 9.1?

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Old 08-27-2004, 10:01 AM
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I hope WNCT does something soon to fix their local audio portion. It's god awful! I can't change the channels without getting blown out of the room by the other dt stations on my stb. I have to increase the volume on 9 just to hear the local portions, then get blown out of the room when they go back to network.

Likewise, the video content on their local side seems very murky. Is this just me or do other people see it as well. WCTI and WITN do not look this way on my system.

Is Dec 1st the projected date for our local Fox to come online or has that changed as well?

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Old 08-27-2004, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Last I heard still Dec 1st.
Also when WNCT news is on is the picture kinda ghosty. When looking at the anchor look to the right side of the screen beside there head.

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Old 08-27-2004, 10:33 AM
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Jamielee,

We seem to be pretty good at disecting these stations and their subchannels, etc. I guess that's pretty good for a laugh if nothing else. *lol*

I'm kinda curious now to have Ken12 pop in here with commentary on WITN's radar... I wish they would just leave it up until they're ready to bring the 24/7 online. I mean, I know it's just a radar, but something like that can't consume all that much bandwith. I mean, the WITN main HD channel still looks fantastic even yesterday when they were simulcasting the analog feed. I suppose it's a matter of economics, etc.

Back to Ken12 though, I wonder if there is any possible way for him to siphon off a tiny amount of bandwith to give a Skytrak 12 radar. I mean, especially since WITN is going to drop their's later today. I know he's concerned about compression and messing up the HD channel or the SD UPN, but I'd love to see WCTI experiment with it as well.

Since WNCT seems to pay very little attention to the forum and HD inroads, at least as far as we know, I'd like to see the other locals play around with the idea. Honestly, I've never given WITN very much credit as a serious tech competitor around Eastern NC, but they are definitely in the midst of making a run at pushing forward with HD and multicasting. Since WCTI was on the air first around here with digital, I wonder if they're paying attention to 7.2 coming online- if only for one day. Likewise, I've e-mailed Skip a couple of times about getting a local Weatherbug for branded by WCTI for our area. And boom, WITN beats them to the punch there with WITN First Alert for computer users.

To be honest, I'm a tv junkie for sure, I like seeing the locals here expanding their reach and giving their viewers more. I remember Ken12 saying recently that analog is where they make their money and that couldn't be more true, but I definitely think HD is catching on in this area. The time is now to move ahead.

Btw, Ken12, if you do pop into this conversation, are you guys being affected much by the transfer of ownership of WCTI. I remember reading not too long ago that another station group was looking at purchasing WCTI. Is that tying your hands at exploring other options for multicasting? Is there any possibility you might spin off UPN 48 into their own frequency assignment and WCTI will stand alone. This might give you the opportunity to do some of that multicasting that you've maybe been considering. I'm sure there is plenty of red tape and money issues that go along with something like this, but as a viewer, I'm actively interested in this subject. Obviously, since I post as frequently as possible. And so do others... Hit us up and give us the skinny on anything you can.

One final question for anyone who might be exploring our forum, any word on the greenville pax coming online. Jamielee, you've let us know that Fox won't be until Dec 1st barring anything unforseen. Have you heard anything about Pax? Likewise, what's up with our local WB? I know it's a cable only system presently. Any chance they might broadcast OTA?

Btw, these are just some musings... I don't expect you to be like NOVA and have all the answers! *LOL*

Geo
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Old 08-27-2004, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Pax is probally going to be digital 2007 do not even have a ch assigment yet. Back to multicasting, WTVD11 and WRAZ50 have 1Hd and 2SD running HD channels look great and 1ST SD is not bad , 2SD is compressed a bit but for a rad channel or news its okay!!!
KEN12 think about this, Add a 3rd ch, you could air Skip all day, give a expanded Friday night Football show. Even add ABC NOW

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Old 08-27-2004, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Just checked the FCC site PAX out of Greenville has a petition for a digital slot in, Ch 51. I guess next thing is a construction permit then digital programming. Still a few years away.

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Old 08-27-2004, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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FCC link
www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html
you can then type in a call sign (WITN) etc and see info on it, also has area maps, shows you where the transmitters are.
Once you type in the station letters hit enter , youll see the name of the station in purple on the left. it will show station type TV DT or others, the the channel #s, STATUS Licensed or construction etc.
click on the purple station id call sign, it will bring up all the info on the station and towers and show the maps.

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Old 08-27-2004, 11:20 AM
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Jamielee,

Thanx for that link to the FCC database... I found it once before and haven't been able to find it since. I guess I should have saved it as a favorite.

Isn't that odd about Pax for Greenville though when the Jacksonville station is already up and running? I can't pick it up, but considering both stations are affiliates for Pax, you'd think they'd have their stations up and running at the same time. Weird.

I second your motion for Ken12 to give us one more with news, sports, and weather rotation. Run ABC News Now with weather and/or sports cut ins. Local news updates at the top and bottom of the hour. Just an idea anyway... *LOL* Or just give us a radar with weather, sports, news cut ins. I'll anchor it; I live right down from the Greenville studio! *LOL*

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Old 08-27-2004, 11:26 AM
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I have experimented with adding a third channel (weather and news) and it can be done but not without giving up quality on UPN which I don't want to do and we will not reduce the quality of the HD. That being said the compression technology is getting better all the time and a new option called Statmux which dynamically alocates bandwidth based on content may make that possible.

The ownership transfer is complete here. I don't think there will be much of a change at all. There has been no change in management.

Buying equipment for HD is a little slow for us the stuff is still quite expensive. Just to get on the air with digital was over 2 million. That didn't even count the upgrade to HD. We are still havening to maintain all the analog equipment and replace it as needed. When I buy new I try to make sure it has some type of upgrade path to digital. But I will continue to push for new and better equipment to move us into the future.

What everybody needs to do is promote the hell out of HD. I think that when somebody watches a program or 2 in HD the will never want to go back to sd. I think just seeing it in stores is not enough. I've only had my set a couple of weeks and wouldn't even think of buying an HD set until I could get a HD TIVO. Now that I have it I'll never go back.

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Old 08-27-2004, 12:02 PM
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Ken,

As you can see we have been very busy over the past couple of days discussing the in's and out's of all of this. However, it's nice to get your perspective as you are actually in the trenches doing it every day. I had no idea the transfer of ownership was complete there at WCTI. Likewise, you blew my mind quoting the figure it took to get on the air digitally. I can definitely understand the money constraints. I had read that is why most stations are not producing their local news in hd yet as the equipment prices are off the chart.

It's cool to know that you've at least been experimenting with adding a second subchannel. I hope the Statmux can do what you and other broadcasters are looking to do. I know you mentioned that you know other engineers here in this market, but how about RDU. Is it your opinion that they are already using Statmux and that is why they are able to allocate the bandwith for 3 channels? Could this be why the UNC Network is able to split into 5 channels? I realize their first subchannel is turned off during the day for the other 4 and the other 3 are turned off at night for the second HD channel. I always thought that PBS operated either in or near the red; that's why they always have the pledge drives. How do you think they're doing it?

I agree with you that everybody needs to promote HD. I think major retailers such as Wal Mart are finally getting out there and selling it. I think this will allow the average consumer the opportunity to purchase either a stb or hdtv.

For my part, I don't have an hdtv; I'm using a regular analog tv. I love the HDTV set top box. The only drawback is not being able to see a full picture unless the show is produced in HDTV or unless I'm watching an SD channel. I think this might inhibit some folks from making the leap to HDTV. For instance, my roomate really dislikes watching the little square box when it's in letterbox format or the pillar box when the program isn't hd. I think this may be a turn off for some people. For my part, it doesn't really bother me as the picture is still vastly superior to analog or even my dishnetwork satellite. I thought Dish was the bomb when I got it back in 97, but now that I'm watching super sdtv, I'm hooked. *lol*

Geo
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