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Rochester, NY - HDTV

334K views 3K replies 205 participants last post by  tshaff09 
#1 ·
TW just released their HDDVRs. Their High Def line up locally is HBO, Showtime, PBS, WB, ABC, Discovery, inHD, inHD2.


I'd really love to see CBS and ESPN sometime soon.
 
#2,078 ·
Does anyone have any info on WBGT-CA RF46 signal.

Are they at full power???

Their signal looks like it should be good at 15kw non-directional,

but I have only been able to see this station twice.

While the other low power channels such as RF42 and

RF36 analogue come in crystal clear much of the time.


I am directly across the lake only 58 miles from the transmitter.
 
#2,084 ·
I have to say, I’m pretty impressed by the overall quality of the channel 8 news in HD. I think channel 13 looks crisper, but channel 8 appears richer and has better color definition and saturation. Especially the weather. Damn, their new weather set up is pretty slick!
 
#2,086 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokilarry  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22371481


Yep, It's looking good. However, notice that the commercials are still SD, which also means no syndicated programming (Jeopardy etc.) in HD.
Which makes them the same as WHAM!
 
#2,088 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22373530


What hardware do 8 & 13 lack in order to broadcast syndicated shows in HD? All the Buffalo stations broadcast their syndicated shows like Jeopardy, Dr. Oz, Wheel of Fortune in HD.
It usually is just not a single piece of equipment that any station lacks, but a whole series of things:
  • First, they need to receive the program in HD - meaning that they need a HD satellite receiver for EACH PROGRAM SOURCE (keep in mind that there are many different syndicated program sources). Also note that, even today, there are lots of programs (the some of the "Judge" shows, for example) that are not yet HD.
  • Then the station needs HD servers to capture those shows in HD for playout later.
  • From that point, the station needs Infrastructure (cabling, routers, etc.) that support HD. Often this includes automation systems.


Usually, local stations (including channel 10) have implemented HD in small (even "Jerry-rigged") steps. Back when digital TV started (and most all stations were mostly analog), stations would use simple small switches that would feed the digital transmitter either from the regular SD stream or the network HD feed. Remember all those times that stations would "forget" to "throw the switch" for HD? When the actual transition came (and analog was shut off), other expedient solutions were found.


The addition of HD News often means the rebuilding of the newsroom control room, change in field equipment to HD (though HD field cameras can operate in 16:9 SD mode for transmission via the field truck SD microwave link). But often the newsroom control room is one thing, while the Master Control (and infrastructure) is something else. Like in the early days of HD, a simple switch can be used to used to switch between the HD Network, the HD Newsroom and the regular SD infrastructure.


As I understand it, the costs to change the rest of the infrastructure used to be VERY expensive - so local stations would do the bare minimum. This has been particularly true in a down economy and with increased competition for viewership from cable channels and the Internet. But costs have been coming way down, so we will likely see more total HD integration in the future.


BTW: I do not mean to minimize the addition of HD news - it is a major task, and stations that accomplish that as well as both Channels 8/31 and 13 are to be congratulated. It is a BIG step towards total integration of HD.
 
#2,089 ·
I just read on time warner cable's website for our area they will start offering Digital Adapters around October 10th & they will be free through November 2013. After that each adapter will be $0.99 each month. The site doesn't say when they will stop using analog channels. The Easy Setup guide they posted says the digital adapters they are offering us will support HD because it can be connected to the tv with an HDMI cable or a coax cable. TW never told me they were doing this because i just read the information on tw's website for the very first time. They better tell me soon when they will stop using analog channels because my den tv doesn't have a box & i use it to watch nascar on the weekend or if my box is recording 2 shows at once.


Here is a link to the site: http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeast/support/topic.ashx/Digital+Adapters
 
#2,091 ·
I have a Tivo Series 2 Dual Tuner model hooked up to my basement TV. According to Tivo, most Digital Adapters don't support devices that contain more than one tuner. Tivo says to contact the cable company to discuss options.


Does anyone know which analog channels Time Warner is going to shut off? Maybe all of them?


/Don
 
#2,092 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22374436


It usually is just not a single piece of equipment that any station lacks, but a whole series of things:
  • First, they need to receive the program in HD - meaning that they need a HD satellite receiver for EACH PROGRAM SOURCE (keep in mind that there are many different syndicated program sources). Also note that, even today, there are lots of programs (the some of the "Judge" shows, for example) that are not yet HD.
  • Then the station needs HD servers to capture those shows in HD for playout later.
  • From that point, the station needs Infrastructure (cabling, routers, etc.) that support HD. Often this includes automation systems.

Usually, local stations (including channel 10) have implemented HD in small (even "Jerry-rigged") steps. Back when digital TV started (and most all stations were mostly analog), stations would use simple small switches that would feed the digital transmitter either from the regular SD stream or the network HD feed. Remember all those times that stations would "forget" to "throw the switch" for HD? When the actual transition came (and analog was shut off), other expedient solutions were found.

The addition of HD News often means the rebuilding of the newsroom control room, change in field equipment to HD (though HD field cameras can operate in 16:9 SD mode for transmission via the field truck SD microwave link). But often the newsroom control room is one thing, while the Master Control (and infrastructure) is something else. Like in the early days of HD, a simple switch can be used to used to switch between the HD Network, the HD Newsroom and the regular SD infrastructure.

As I understand it, the costs to change the rest of the infrastructure used to be VERY expensive - so local stations would do the bare minimum. This has been particularly true in a down economy and with increased competition for viewership from cable channels and the Internet. But costs have been coming way down, so we will likely see more total HD integration in the future.

BTW: I do not mean to minimize the addition of HD news - it is a major task, and stations that accomplish that as well as both Channels 8/31 and 13 are to be congratulated. It is a BIG step towards total integration of HD.

Dave, thanks for the very detailed explanation. I wasn't aware of the extent of changes required to simply broadcast syndicated shows in HD. I read somewhere recently that the current costs of HD changeover for local stations is just a fraction of what it was a few years ago. Hopefully our local stations will implement the changes required for syndicated HD broadcasts as costs continue to decrease.
 
#2,093 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwgsp  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22376356


I have a Tivo Series 2 Dual Tuner model hooked up to my basement TV. According to Tivo, most Digital Adapters don't support devices that contain more than one tuner. Tivo says to contact the cable company to discuss options.

Does anyone know which analog channels Time Warner is going to shut off? Maybe all of them?

/Don

TW will probably recommend you get a cable card for your Tivo because the digital adapter will only use one of your tivo's tuners while channel changes are made at the Digital Adapter. The Cable Card will use both of your Tivo's tuners & you can still record a show while watching another channel.


Time Warner should tell us in advance when they will start turning off analog channels.
 
#2,094 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPNASCAR24  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22376678


TW will probably recommend you get a cable card for your Tivo ...

You're thinking of Tivo Series 3 and newer models. Tivo Series 2 models are several years old, analog-only, and do not support CableCards. It's likely that there is no good solution, but since this is old technology I won't loose any sleep over it becoming obsolete.


BTW, this issue would also affect analog TVs that have two tuners to support Picture-in-Picture. Does anyone still use that?


/Don
 
#2,095 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwgsp  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22376356


I have a Tivo Series 2 Dual Tuner model hooked up to my basement TV. According to Tivo, most Digital Adapters don't support devices that contain more than one tuner. Tivo says to contact the cable company to discuss options.

Does anyone know which analog channels Time Warner is going to shut off? Maybe all of them?

/Don
Are you still standard def? If so you can use a old Series 2 Dual Tuner TiVo with a digital cable STB (set top box) - the Series 2 does not support cable cards. The series 2 TiVo can control and record from the STB but it becomes a single tuner DVR unless you still have some unencrypted analog channels. If you have gone to a HD TV honestly it is time to retire the Series 2 TiVo and move up to dual or quad tuner TiVo Premiere.


Good Luck,
 
#2,096 ·
I don't find the new Tivo models to be very compelling. I already have a Tivo HD with a cablecard as well as the already mentioned Series 2 DT. Tivo finally replaced MRV with streaming to share recordings between devices, which is good, but it seems to me that today a competitive option for time shifted TV viewing is to cut the cord and use a couple Rokus instead. I came really close to doing this about three months ago, but TW gave me a price break so I have stayed with them for the time being.


I should mention that my family watches very little live TV. If we were sports fans or live news junkies, or subscribed to premium channels, then it would be a different story. But in our case, just about all of the programming that we currently watch can be found online for a reasonable price. If the BBC iPlayer was easily available here in the states, we would have already made the jump.


Maybe TW's decision to shut off some of the analog channels will hasten my move. I'd still like to know which channels will be affected.


/Don
 
#2,097 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPNASCAR24  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2130#post_22376678


TW will probably recommend you get a cable card for your Tivo because the digital adapter will only use one of your tivo's tuners while channel changes are made at the Digital Adapter. The Cable Card will use both of your Tivo's tuners & you can still record a show while watching another channel.

.
He will need a CableCARD for anything beyond the local channels because those are encrypted. All CableCARDs being distributed today themselves can decrypt 4 separate channels. So, it is possible to record two HD channels. The catch is that, normally one can't record any programs that are SDV (Switched Digital Video) because the TiVo itself can't send a signal to the local distribution point (neighborhood node) that he wants to see (or record) - that's what the tuning adapter is for. From what he says, apparently the tuning adapter can only request one SDV program at a time - so his ability to record two programs at once is limited to one SDV channel in addition to any non-SDV channel at a time
 
#2,098 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2160#post_22378450


From what he says, apparently the tuning adapter can only request one SDV program at a time - so his ability to record two programs at once is limited to one SDV channel in addition to any non-SDV channel at a time

My original post was about a Series 2 Tivo unit, which is analog only (no digital tuner, cablecard, or Tuning Adapter support). See my follow up post.


As for Tuning Adapters, they can support multiple SDV channels. The TA that connects to my TivoHD handles both of the tuners that the Tivo supports.


/Don
 
#2,099 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwgsp  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2160#post_22378495


My original post was about a Series 2 Tivo unit, which is analog only (no digital tuner, cablecard, or Tuning Adapter support). See my follow up post.

As for Tuning Adapters, they can support multiple SDV channels. The TA that connects to my TivoHD handles both of the tuners that the Tivo supports.

/Don
Sorry, got lost in the posts. Glad to realize that the tuning adapter can handle multiple SDV channels. Curious to know how many?
 
#2,101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2160#post_22378555


Sorry, got lost in the posts. Glad to realize that the tuning adapter can handle multiple SDV channels. Curious to know how many?

My understanding is that this is dependent on the firmware version that is installed on the Tuning Adapter. On some systems, the Cisco STA1520 (which is the TA that TW uses in Rochester) will support up to six streams. TW says that their TA is compatible with the Ceton InfiniTV 4, which I believe implies that their TA supports at least four streams..


/Don
 
#2,102 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatophysics  /t/394083/rochester-ny-hdtv/2160#post_22378588


For time warner, anyone know how many of the digital channels are 5C flagged on the firewire? Is it just HBO or can one expect

discovery channel HD to be 5c/non-copyable?

Sounds like you are talking about the Copy Control Information flag, also known as the CCI Byte . The CCI Byte allows content owners to specify how digital television content can be duplicated.


On most Time Warner systems, including Rochester, local broadcast channels are flagged Copy Freely. This is required by the FCC. Time Warner chooses to flag all other channels as Copy Once, which means that they can be recorded by a DVR, but then the recording on the DVR cannot be copied again to another device.


/Don
 
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