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post #2491 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bigdaveyl View Post
I am here in Rochester, NY. I live up in Greece, near Charlotte.

I would even try an indoors mount in my crawl space if that is any easier.
Unfortunately i don't know anything about installing an outdoors antenna but i've heard it's pretty easy to do. I sent a PM to a guy who may be able to help you, when i hear back from him i'll let you know what he says.
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post #2492 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 07:20 AM
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Unfortunately i don't know anything about installing an outdoors antenna but i've heard it's pretty easy to do. I sent a PM to a guy who may be able to help you, when i hear back from him i'll let you know what he says.
Thanks.

I was either thinking of putting a Winegard 8200 outdoors or getting a Channel Master 4228 with a preamp to put in the crawl space indoors. I bet I could make a PVC stand or something and just place it up there and would need to run coax inside the outside wall or something if at all possible.
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post #2493 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bigdaveyl View Post
Thanks.

I was either thinking of putting a Winegard 8200 outdoors or getting a Channel Master 4228 with a preamp to put in the crawl space indoors. I bet I could make a PVC stand or something and just place it up there and would need to run coax inside the outside wall or something if at all possible.
You may not need a preamp with your antenna setup. I would go to tvfool.com & enter your address & it will tell you what channels you should be able to receive at your address & how strong they may be. That should be enough to determine if you need a preamp or not. My best guess would be no because the through of all the channels overloading keeps coming into my head.
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post #2494 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MPNASCAR24 View Post
You may not need a preamp with your antenna setup. I would go to tvfool.com & enter your address & it will tell you what channels you should be able to receive at your address & how strong they may be. That should be enough to determine if you need a preamp or not. My best guess would be no because the through of all the channels overloading keeps coming into my head.
Well, I have done some playing with indoor antennas (unamplified) with very mixed results even though tvfool says I should be getting decent signal. That's why I was concerned.
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post #2495 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 07:41 AM
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Well, I have done some playing with indoor antennas (unamplified) with very mixed results even though tvfool says I should be getting decent signal. That's why I was concerned.
I currently use an indoors antenna in my bedroom & i can say from experience all indoors antennas are more sensitive to interference because they're so low to the ground so just about anything inside your home can weaken the signals they get. In my experience the microwave, vacuum cleaner & Window Air Conditioner easily weaken OTA signals on my antenna even when they not on the same floor. An outdoors antenna will always be superior because it's normally installed on the roof & not exposed to anything inside the house that could cause interference. The only interference an outdoors antenna can get comes from mother nature. I would try using the antenna without a preamp at first & see if you really need it. If you do need it then install it.
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post #2496 of 2509 Old 06-25-2014, 05:56 PM
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My best antenna is a mohu leaf. I have problems even though I am 4 miles from the hill north and east. I think 590 partially blocks the signal. I have to keep it high and it works quite well. I have a mohu ripoff that works well but is half as big and is not as good.

I have tried many antennas. Amped, yagi (unfotunately uhf only), amped, micro, table top. The mohu is clearly the best. I just got an ultimate for the mother in law in Leroy so we'll see if that is better than the one she has. She lived in Charlotte and I can't remember what we used to give her ota upstairs with a converter box.

If you live north, they send less signal toward the lake as there are not many viewers living in the lake.

I use the Mohu for a media center pc and it has been pretty reliable. My wife agrees that it is better than TW.

I have a cable card tuner too and that works well for recording the world cup but the darn recordings are copyrighted so I can't convert them to mp4.

Good luck!
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post #2497 of 2509 Old 06-26-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
My best antenna is a mohu leaf. I have problems even though I am 4 miles from the hill north and east. I think 590 partially blocks the signal. I have to keep it high and it works quite well. I have a mohu ripoff that works well but is half as big and is not as good.

I have tried many antennas. Amped, yagi (unfotunately uhf only), amped, micro, table top. The mohu is clearly the best. I just got an ultimate for the mother in law in Leroy so we'll see if that is better than the one she has. She lived in Charlotte and I can't remember what we used to give her ota upstairs with a converter box.

If you live north, they send less signal toward the lake as there are not many viewers living in the lake.

I use the Mohu for a media center pc and it has been pretty reliable. My wife agrees that it is better than TW.

I have a cable card tuner too and that works well for recording the world cup but the darn recordings are copyrighted so I can't convert them to mp4.

Good luck!
There is a well known issue regarding WROC in these parts, specifically in NW Monroe county. 104 is the line of reported problems.

I believe a Canadian station has a re-transmitter that occupies channel 8 - I forget if it is a real or virtual station. I believe WROC sends out less power in this direction because of it.

My father lives about 2 miles from me and has an antenna on the roof with a rotor and no preamp. He can get most everything except channel 8. WXXI he can't get reliably in the summer. He has a giant tree next to the garage and the neighbor also has a giant oak tree, which is in the general direction of Pinnacle Hill. Also, I checked TV Fool and he is 2edge where I am LOS.

I have played with the cheap rabbit ears at my place, putting them in several different spots - basement, first floor, second floor.

I have found my TV's can at least pick up WHEC, enough to store it, anywhere in the house. WUHF and WHAM tend to be more finicky, but can be received. I can get ION and WBGT on the second floor no problem. WROC is finicky on the second floor. Actually, I have the most problems with WXXI.

I just ordered a Channel Master 4228HD to play with, figuring I can "hide" it somewhere for the time being. If it works on the second floor, I would assume it could work in the crawl space, if we can get it up there. If we can't, or it doesn't work well, I would assume we can either put it outside and it would most likely work there. If it doesn't, maybe I'll get one of the large Winegards then. The hard work of installing a mast, running coax and grounding would be done.

Sorry for the brain dump.
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post #2498 of 2509 Old 06-26-2014, 07:31 AM
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I heard back from my contact & he doesn't know how to help you so i showed your post to my dad & he recommends an outdoor setup over an attic setup because the antenna will work the best when it's on the roof. As for the preamp my dad doesn't recommend it. He says you should try a regular amplifier first & see if that helps improve the reception. If it makes things worse it will be easier to remove since it won't be on the roof. I've read a lot of good reviews about the Channel Master 4228HD so it should work just fine for you. One comment about WXXI, i've heard from a lot of people online that WXXI has bad reception the closer you get to lake ontario so it's no surprise your having the most trouble with that channel. Good luck with your antenna install & let us know how it works out for you.
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post #2499 of 2509 Old 06-26-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MPNASCAR24 View Post
I heard back from my contact & he doesn't know how to help you so i showed your post to my dad & he recommends an outdoor setup over an attic setup because the antenna will work the best when it's on the roof. As for the preamp my dad doesn't recommend it. He says you should try a regular amplifier first & see if that helps improve the reception. If it makes things worse it will be easier to remove since it won't be on the roof. I've read a lot of good reviews about the Channel Master 4228HD so it should work just fine for you. One comment about WXXI, i've heard from a lot of people online that WXXI has bad reception the closer you get to lake ontario so it's no surprise your having the most trouble with that channel. Good luck with your antenna install & let us know how it works out for you.
Yep, the outdoor set up would be optimal, but I am willing to change the parameters of the project if someone would be willing to do an indoor install but not an outdoor install

I may be forced to go with the not optimal solution. The guy that would do the omnidirectional antenna would charge $350 for parts & labor and would install above the roof line so it may be adequate....
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post #2500 of 2509 Old 06-26-2014, 10:49 AM
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Yep, the outdoor set up would be optimal, but I am willing to change the parameters of the project if someone would be willing to do an indoor install but not an outdoor install

I may be forced to go with the not optimal solution. The guy that would do the omnidirectional antenna would charge $350 for parts & labor and would install above the roof line so it may be adequate....
I think I found someone else in town would do it, and use better parts. He could install mine, or he could use his tested system that has worked well in the Rochester area and held up to the winters - he has been installing this since 2009.
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post #2501 of 2509 Old 06-29-2014, 06:05 AM
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So the Mohu ultimate was installed out in Leroy, just to the east of the Thruway exit. It pulls in all the Rochester channels, but no Buffalo, at least not from where my wife mounted it. She attached it, mounted it high on the wall and rescanned (all by herself!). This replaced another amped antenna that only got a couple of the channels as would a regular Mohu. The tv is an older Olevia so the tuner may not be that great.

This antenna would certainly work in Charlotte and should be splittable. That's what I do with mine, I had it running to the tv, fm tuner and media center pc.

The next experiment for her is attaching a w8 tablet to the tv and trying to run watchespn for the World cup games.

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post #2502 of 2509 Old 06-30-2014, 04:24 PM
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Gregoryperkins,
My Dad lives in Leroy south of the village near the Livingston County Border & his traditional outdoors antenna with an amplifier can get all of rochester & most of buffalo so your antenna may need an adjustment if you want buffalo locals.

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post #2503 of 2509 Old 06-30-2014, 06:39 PM
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Yeah I know, I told them to put one outside, but this was easier. It only took 2 years and me ordering it! I just wasn't sure if it would get them or not. I got Buffalo one day in Irondequoit with an outdoor antenna (not very high) and that was it. She's just happy to get the roc locals.

The sad thing is their primary tv is a crappy 26" tube with dish. They still need an antenna to get the locals and this one does them no good since it is on the other side of the house. So one side of the house has HD locals, the other an ancient tv.
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post #2504 of 2509 Old 07-01-2014, 09:57 AM
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All of my dad's tv's are tube tv's & he's so cheap he won't replace anything until it breaks for good. I almost forgot he also has a basic indoors antenna in his bedroom & that antenna will only get rochester locals so that may explain why the mohu antenna is only getting rochester. He says he wants to attach a splitter to his outdoor antenna so he doesn't have to get out of bed to adjust the indoor antenna whenever he changes the channel but he keeps forgetting to buy it.
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post #2505 of 2509 Old 07-03-2014, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
Yeah I know, I told them to put one outside, but this was easier. It only took 2 years and me ordering it! I just wasn't sure if it would get them or not. I got Buffalo one day in Irondequoit with an outdoor antenna (not very high) and that was it. She's just happy to get the roc locals.

The sad thing is their primary tv is a crappy 26" tube with dish. They still need an antenna to get the locals and this one does them no good since it is on the other side of the house. So one side of the house has HD locals, the other an ancient tv.
Have you thought about getting an outdoor antenna to use indoors?

I had good luck with playing with a CM 4228HD without amplification in my bedroom. I think with a decent amp and a little more patience, I could have received all locals.

I tried putting it in my garage rafters. Too big, and I would have had issues turning it.

I returned it and ordered it's little brother, the 4221HD. Supposedly, it has almost the same gain but a wider beam width. And it is half the size. I also got two different pre-amps to try. This will be my last ditch effort before bringing in an installer. I did end up finding two locally that will install half decent antennas. The one guy will install a Antenna's Direct 91xg along with an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13. This is supposed to be a well regarded combo along with a rotor, a decent tripod rated for 70MPH winds... Unfortunately the cost is $600. I would rather do the job myself for $100 and maybe call someone to run coax.
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post #2506 of 2509 Old 07-03-2014, 06:23 AM
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Have you thought about getting an outdoor antenna to use indoors?

I had good luck with playing with a CM 4228HD without amplification in my bedroom. I think with a decent amp and a little more patience, I could have received all locals.

I tried putting it in my garage rafters. Too big, and I would have had issues turning it.

I returned it and ordered it's little brother, the 4221HD. Supposedly, it has almost the same gain but a wider beam width. And it is half the size. I also got two different pre-amps to try. This will be my last ditch effort before bringing in an installer. I did end up finding two locally that will install half decent antennas. The one guy will install a Antenna's Direct 91xg along with an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13. This is supposed to be a well regarded combo along with a rotor, a decent tripod rated for 70MPH winds... Unfortunately the cost is $600. I would rather do the job myself for $100 and maybe call someone to run coax.
I have a Channel Master 4221 mounted in my garage rafters using a 7777 Pre-Amp. It's split to handle locals on my 2x TV's for the very rare times where my DirecTV signal fails - and in case I decide to drop DirecTV at some point and use my AppleTV and Roku players along with the antenna for locals. I live in Hilton and have it aimed so that it receives all of the Rochester stations very well. I don't have it on a rotor, so I don't get Buffalo stations - haven't even tried. Of course, YMMV.

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post #2507 of 2509 Old 07-03-2014, 06:34 AM
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I have a Channel Master 4221 mounted in my garage rafters using a 7777 Pre-Amp. It's split to handle locals on my 2x TV's for the very rare times where my DirecTV signal fails - and in case I decide to drop DirecTV at some point and use my AppleTV and Roku players along with the antenna for locals. I live in Hilton and have it aimed so that it receives all of the Rochester stations very well. I don't have it on a rotor, so I don't get Buffalo stations - haven't even tried. Of course, YMMV.
I have a CM7777 coming as well as the RCA preamp that seems popular (handles overload more gracefully, so they say). Amazon took back the 4228HD with no problems and I'm a prime member so I'm paying very little to nothing for shipping to me. It was like $12 to ship back the 4228HD.

I am in Greece so I'm assuming you'll have weaker signals than me. Stupid question, did you have any issues getting WXXI while trying to tune for ION? It seems in my toying around, WXXI seems a bit weak, and I had more of a problem with that than WROC (which has issues getting to these parts). Maybe I need to play a bit more and I'm thinking of building a PVC stand once I know the antenna will fit and get everything reasonably well.
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post #2508 of 2509 Old 07-03-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bigdaveyl View Post
I have a CM7777 coming as well as the RCA preamp that seems popular (handles overload more gracefully, so they say). Amazon took back the 4228HD with no problems and I'm a prime member so I'm paying very little to nothing for shipping to me. It was like $12 to ship back the 4228HD.

I am in Greece so I'm assuming you'll have weaker signals than me. Stupid question, did you have any issues getting WXXI while trying to tune for ION? It seems in my toying around, WXXI seems a bit weak, and I had more of a problem with that than WROC (which has issues getting to these parts). Maybe I need to play a bit more and I'm thinking of building a PVC stand once I know the antenna will fit and get everything reasonably well.
I didn't remember the signal strengths from when I set it up a few years ago, so I just used the signal strength meter on my DirecTV DVR and here's the %-strength readings for the Rochester stations (includes all sub-channels where applicable):
08/WROC - 83%
10/WHEC - 100%
13/WHAM - 100%
21/WXXI - 100%
31/WUHF - 95%


As you can see, the reading on 08/WROC is the lowest of them and it fluctuates more than the rest. However, it still solid while watching it.

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post #2509 of 2509 Old Yesterday, 09:11 AM
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I finally decided to get rid of the 8300 and get a Tivo with the sale they had this weekend. It should pay for itself in a couple of years. Dish and Direct made it impossible to get the channels I want without getting their biggest package.

I have a 2 year old cable card/tuning adapter on my windows PC. Should I get new equipment or has it not changed much? The TA is massive.

Thanks,

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