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post #361 of 10136 Old 08-14-2004, 05:05 PM
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Looks pretty good right now- not HD, but very nice picture. Would have been nice to see it in HD, but we'll live

Who is the more irrational, the man who believes in a God he does not see, or the man who is offended by the God he does not believe in? -Brad Stine
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post #362 of 10136 Old 08-14-2004, 06:04 PM
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ccallana,

How can you be so calm - don't you know that it's the end of the world if we should happen to miss something we wanted to see in HD. Where's the ranting, and raving? Not even any expletives?

Sorry, I guess I've been spending too much time reading the HD Olympic threads!

Thanks for trying, Rory, I'm sure you all would have liked a different outcome.

Tracey
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post #363 of 10136 Old 08-14-2004, 06:30 PM
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I'm a calm guy by nature I've avoided the HD Olympic threads... I am disappointed by NBC's treatment, but I'm not getting tied in a wad over it

-Chris

Who is the more irrational, the man who believes in a God he does not see, or the man who is offended by the God he does not believe in? -Brad Stine
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post #364 of 10136 Old 08-14-2004, 08:28 PM
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I think avoiding the HD Olympic threads is probably a good idea - there are some majorly unhappy people there - and you need to watch your step - as our own drunkpenguin can testify (hi, Johnny!)

I can't believe people can get their knickers in such a twist over TV - some perspective might help them! If NBC's delayed Olympic coverage is the worst thing in their lives, they ought to be mighty happy people.

Tracey
(who's calmly waiting to record the HD coverage starting at 1am, and very excited to get it)
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post #365 of 10136 Old 08-15-2004, 07:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by brad 54
Residing in Turlock I get KSSE and KCRA's feeds. KSEE's 24.1 is HD 720p and 24.2 is SD (not the same feeds). KCRA's 3.1 is HD 720p with nothing on 3.2. Lots of drops, audio problems... Why can't we get a 1080i feed since 3.2 is not being utilized?

What are you seeing that indicates it is in 720p? Everything I have seen shows it is in 1080i on KCRA.
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post #366 of 10136 Old 08-15-2004, 12:50 PM
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Did anybody watch the Raiders/9ers game on 31-1? I lost signal many many times. I'm wondering if its my reception on that channel.

Johnny
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post #367 of 10136 Old 08-15-2004, 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by drunkpenguin
Did anybody watch the Raiders/9ers game on 31-1? I lost signal many many times. I'm wondering if its my reception on that channel.

Johnny

KMAX is still running very low power. When you got it, was it in HD? The feed on 10-1 wasn't. In the Bay Area, 2-1 was in SD and 5-1 was in HD.
Carl
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post #368 of 10136 Old 08-15-2004, 03:53 PM
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I saw a little bit of the game on 31-1 -- it wasn't HD. However, in the brief amount of time that I was tuned in (less than a minute), I did see two instances of digital freezing/blocking ... not sure if that was a reception issue, or something in the feed they were receiving. This may or may not be the same thing that Johnny (aka: drunkpenguin) was talking about.

--Bill R.
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post #369 of 10136 Old 08-15-2004, 07:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by videojanitor
I saw a little bit of the game on 31-1 -- it wasn't HD. However, in the brief amount of time that I was tuned in (less than a minute), I did see two instances of digital freezing/blocking ... not sure if that was a reception issue, or something in the feed they were receiving. This may or may not be the same thing that Johnny (aka: drunkpenguin) was talking about.

--Bill R.

It was a reception issue and has nothing to do with whether it was 480p, 720p or 1080i.
Carl
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post #370 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 12:15 AM
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Carl,

I think maybe I confused the issue. What I wanted to do first was answer your question as to whether or not the game was in HD on 31-1.

The second thing was just to mention that I saw some digital breakup during the brief period that I tuned in -- but I'm not sure when I implied that this might have something to do with any particular transmission format. What I *was* suggesting is that it's possible the breakup was INCOMING to KMAX -- that is, if they took this off a digital satellite feed, this kind of problem is not uncommon.

--Bill R.
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post #371 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 07:51 AM
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Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

I have no trouble tuning in 3-1 & 13-1, but 10-1 seems to be much more difficult. Is 10-1 also from Pleasant Grove?

Initially I got 40-1, but yesterday I couldnt get it at all no matter where i pointed the antenna??

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

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post #372 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 08:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ileff
Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

It's in Walnut Grove (South Sac Co), not Pleasant Grove. You're a little ways from those transmitters

Dan
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post #373 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 10:39 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by videojanitor
Carl,

I think maybe I confused the issue. What I wanted to do first was answer your question as to whether or not the game was in HD on 31-1.

The second thing was just to mention that I saw some digital breakup during the brief period that I tuned in -- but I'm not sure when I implied that this might have something to do with any particular transmission format. What I *was* suggesting is that it's possible the breakup was INCOMING to KMAX -- that is, if they took this off a digital satellite feed, this kind of problem is not uncommon.

--Bill R.

Hi Bill,
Bob Hess is the chief engineer at KMAX, and he checks this forum every so often. He can confirm whether the telecast was in HD.
As far as digital breakup is concerned, there are a number of possibilities:
incoming to KMAX, problems with their digital STL feed or propagation anomalies between their transmitter and you. I watch lots of CBS HD on D*, and there are usually one or two breakups of their digital feed per program. No telling where it comes from. S**t happens!
Carl
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post #374 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 10:53 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ileff
Im in Yuba City, D* just setup an Winegard Sensar II OTA to a Samsung 360 reciever.

I have no trouble tuning in 3-1 & 13-1, but 10-1 seems to be much more difficult. Is 10-1 also from Pleasant Grove?

Initially I got 40-1, but yesterday I couldnt get it at all no matter where i pointed the antenna??

Maybe something else is wrong other than the aim. The signal strength meter on my samsung bounces from 45 to 0, sometimes up to the 70s. Im only 25-30 miles from Pleasant Grove, shouldnt this be pretty solid up in the 90s??

Thanks,

Ian

Ian,
I agree with Dan. Walnut Grove is 25 miles south of Sacramento. Propagation between you and there is likely to be quite variable. There are miles and miles of rice patties. Moisture plus heating and cooling of the air each day produce all kinds of parpagation anomalies. Here in Nevada City, I see tremendous fluctuations in signal levels from Walnut Grove.
Solid digital HD network feeds via satellite from CBS, NBC and Fox will be on next month. You should be eligible for these via D*, E* or V*. If at first you are denied by one or more, you can go the waiver route.
Good luck,
Carl
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post #375 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for the info guys,

I did apply for waivers from all four networks through d*, but they said it takes 30-45 days to hear back.

So they all broadcast from the same tower, funny how nbc and cbs work but i cant get abc. I was doing some searches and I ran across one guy saying the samsung recievers have trouble with the high frequencies (channel 10 uses 61....) hmmmmm.....

Thanks,

Ian

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post #376 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 11:38 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ileff
Thanks for the info guys,

I did apply for waivers from all four networks through d*, but they said it takes 30-45 days to hear back.

So they all broadcast from the same tower, funny how nbc and cbs work but i cant get abc. I was doing some searches and I ran across one guy saying the samsung recievers have trouble with the high frequencies (channel 10 uses 61....) hmmmmm.....

Thanks,

Ian

If you got your Samsung box from D* as part of their $99 HD promotional offer, call them and tell them it's not working properly. They'll take it back in exchange for (hopefully) a Hughes HTL-HD. My son and I have had both, and we feel the Hughes box is superior.
Carl
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post #377 of 10136 Old 08-16-2004, 06:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by carl033
Hi Bill,
Bob Hess is the chief engineer at KMAX, and he checks this forum every so often. He can confirm whether the telecast was in HD.
As far as digital breakup is concerned, there are a number of possibilities:
incoming to KMAX, problems with their digital STL feed or propagation anomalies between their transmitter and you. I watch lots of CBS HD on D*, and there are usually one or two breakups of their digital feed per program. No telling where it comes from. S**t happens!
Carl

The game was not in HD.

We did not have any problems with the incoming feed and we did not have any transmission problems.

- Bob
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post #378 of 10136 Old 08-17-2004, 04:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hammerdwn
I'm getting glitches every so often also. I bet it's not KCRA. Neither my Fusion nor my Dish6000 are seeing a second subchannel, but when the signal is analyzed there are two video streams and one audio stream.

3.1 - 16.22Mbps (87.72%)
3.2 - 1.37Mbps (7.40%)
Audio - 348kbps (1.84%)

Hammer

The HD swimming games showed visible artifacts on the splashes. Why didn't KCRA give the Games full bandwidth?
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post #379 of 10136 Old 08-17-2004, 04:54 PM
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Boy, are you so right! The events on KCRA are really pixellized. The Dish Network HD feed is so much better. And the 5.1 on KCRA seems to be simulated, not getting any rear channels like I am on the Dish feed.

Hammer


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post #380 of 10136 Old 08-17-2004, 09:25 PM
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I'm on Comcast and have noticed the volume on KCRA-DT (185) is very very low - I have to keep changing volume levels between it and KCRA-3 - is this Comcasts problem, or KCRA?

Who is the more irrational, the man who believes in a God he does not see, or the man who is offended by the God he does not believe in? -Brad Stine
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post #381 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 10:54 AM
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KCRA OTA Olympics are pixelated when any fast action occurs. Even when NBC rolls the Olympic rings logo across the screen, those are pixelated! They are going to give HD a bad name. How can they expect to wow consumers with HD when there is pixelization? Sports are one good reason to adopt HD and that is where fast action occurs.
Does anyone really know if this is a lack of dedicated bandwidth issue?
If dedicate full bandwidth would the pixelization go away is my question?
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post #382 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 11:47 AM
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It most definitely is a bandwidth related issue. Even the Dish Network HD Olympic channel has minor motion pixellation and they are supposedly running it at 22Mbps. So if KCRA were to give us their max (~18Mbps) you would still see pixellation, it just would not be as bad as it is now.

Hammer


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post #383 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 12:01 PM
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Hammer,
Do you really think 1 1/2 mb more bandwidth will make a difference?

I am surprised there would still be pixelization in bandwidth that is fully allocated. Seems that if at full bandwidth and pixelation/pixelization (sp?) still exist then there is a problem with the ATSC HDTV format.

Where does Dish get their NBC feed from? Don't they take the local KCRA broadcast and just rebroadcast it? I would think if you see the pixelization in the KCRA OTA broadcast you would also see it in Dish's rebroadcast of KCRA.
Bryan
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post #384 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 12:51 PM
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KCRA and Dish Network get the material from the same source, which is the NBC National HD feed. Supposedely the National HD feed is running at ~44Mbps.

I do think that there would be a discernable difference if KCRA sent out 18Mbps. It would only be a minor improvement though. It's more the principle that there is a subchannel sitting there doing nothing.

I agree that with the ATSC standards, sports is best captured and rebroadcast in 720p because you don't see the pixellation at 60fps.

Hammer


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post #385 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 01:22 PM
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Hammer,
I would imagine that even a 720p low bandwidth broadcast would suffer picture quality as well. It just may not manifest itself as a pixelation.

Is the dish HD a national NBC HD feed and not a local KCRA feed unlike the Dish NTSC channels? So are the commercials either national spots or are blank?
Bryan
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post #386 of 10136 Old 08-18-2004, 03:54 PM
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You can go with a lot lower bandwidth with 720p. From what I've noticed on ESPN-HD (Dish), it makes the pixels kinda shift back and forth, or faces become like clay. Hard to describe...

During the Olympics the content that you see on KCRA-DT is identical to what Dish Network HD is showing, unless KCRA cuts into the national feed for a top of the hour local commercial or news insert. Dish network is even letting all the National NBC ads for their new fall shows like Hawaii and LAX through. The national feed allows for locals to cut in by showing the "Athens fly-over" loop over and over... and over.

Hammer


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post #387 of 10136 Old 08-19-2004, 10:44 PM
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Hi All,

I just thought I shared my success story. I finally fisnihed my HD setup. I have and LG LST-3510A and a Silver Sensor antenna sitting on top of my Mits 48-413. I get pretty good results as expected since I am about 13 miles from most towers.

KXTV-DT
KTXL-DT
KVIE-DT
KSPX-DT
KQCA-DT
KOVR-DT
KMAX-DT
KCRA-DT
KUVS-DT (Marginal reception. Maybe when I move the antenna to the attic it will improve)

I do not get the follwing channels though. KTFK-DT ; KTNC-DT ; KSPX-DT. I believe the first one is Telefutura (spanish) and the second is Azteca America (spanish too). I am not too concerned about them right now but I would like to get them to watch soccer games in the future. I don't even know if these spanish stations are transmitting HDTV. KUVS, which is the biggest one, is not so I am assumming the others aren't either. As far as PAX I have not tried again since the first time. All I probably need to do is some minor adjustment. I have a one story home with no major obstructions by the way. I am pretty happy with hte new resolution. I truly feel like I am watching thru a window when on HDTV. Sweeet. Ok now let 's enhoy some HDTV.
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post #388 of 10136 Old 08-20-2004, 05:55 PM
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Enterprise will be delayed tonight (Friday) due to a baseball game. We are taping Enterprise in HD and will be playing back the tape after the game.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX
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post #389 of 10136 Old 08-20-2004, 09:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bob Hess
Enterprise will be delayed tonight (Friday) due to a baseball game. We are taping Enterprise in HD and will be playing back the tape after the game.

Bob Hess
Director of Engineering
KMAX

Thanks for the info, Bob. Also, a quick question. With FSN now broadcasting their Giants home games in HD, is there any chance of the KMAX et al beginning carriage of the other Giants home games?

Thanks for all the great info you pass on here!
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post #390 of 10136 Old 08-21-2004, 06:27 PM
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Man the feed from Oakland looks terrible tonight. Reminds me of what analog tv used to look like.

Hammer

EDIT: Doh... someone must have been listening up there Picture mysteriously fixed itself.


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