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post #9151 of 10120 Old 03-05-2012, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Hess View Post

We use a TVU pack. Google it. We compared with others. This one was by far superior but the technology changes daily. We bought the first one here in this market. Soon you will see all of the local news stations with something similar and most likely multiple units.

Can I have your old one when you upgrade?

Heh heh
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post #9152 of 10120 Old 03-05-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

15 ? (no station ID)

Should be KBSV on Mt. Oso. Language is Armenian.

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19-1 KUVS-DT
19-2 KUVS-DT

Same transmitter site as KCSO so if that's coming in good then KCSO should too.

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28-1 ? tr3s

Yes.

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28-2 (Voice w/ phone number only-shopping)

There shouldn't be a 28-2. I don't know what's up with that.

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post #9153 of 10120 Old 03-05-2012, 10:49 PM
 
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I sometimes get the physical channels for stations appearing in the scan (like channel 46 for 58) and they come up with sound from the station but no picture.

Thanks for the tip on channel 8 adding 2 more channels- now their stuff can be even more overcompressed. They've added this "health and wellness" thing called Telos on 8-4 which has an extremely annoying bug, the infomercials have moved to 8-5 (again, I've NEVER seen a legal station ID shown here, and I'm not sure if the FCC even allows running 100% advertising, but it's fun to check out when I'm bored) and once again I have color bars with silence on 8-6 which will be my default channel setting now until whatever comes along to take that over. Their international stuff on the first channel is interesting but they've had sound coming only out of the right for a few weeks. I was very surprised to see Jimmy Swaggart has his own network which they're carrying 24/7 on 8-3. I used to watch his shows in the 80s for laughs, and thought he was gone for good after getting caught with a hooker (I still have a tape somewhere of the show featuring his tearful confession!) but I guess enough people have forgiven him. Looks like this channel should be in 16x9 as I've seen text cropped out, and again there's way too much compression on all these channels to watch them for too long.

Recently found out the transmitter for channels 8 and 23 is right down the street from me, so don't know why the 8's drop out sometimes. They don't seem to really know what they're doing, but that's part of their charm in a way. Channel 23 (Home Shopping Network) is the best-looking digital standard-def channel I've seen, no noticeable compression on that. (I still lament the loss of their analog station which was the last one with a decent signal.)
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post #9154 of 10120 Old 03-06-2012, 02:45 AM
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I know there is home shopping on KFTL-CD 28-2, that could be it. But in that case, one would expect 28-1 to be religious.

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post #9155 of 10120 Old 03-06-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

Recently found out the transmitter for channels 8 and 23 is right down the street from me, so don't know why the 8's drop out sometimes. They don't seem to really know what they're doing, but that's part of their charm in a way. Channel 23 (Home Shopping Network) is the best-looking digital standard-def channel I've seen, no noticeable compression on that. (I still lament the loss of their analog station which was the last one with a decent signal.)

I suspect some of these LP stations don't monitor what they're putting out on the air. I've seen macro blocking on KLFB for some time now and I've even seen a message on their transmission saying the "Signal is Weak" when the SNR is 25 dB. Eventually they'll fix it.

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post #9156 of 10120 Old 03-06-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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Some of these stations get stuff directly off consumer satellite systems too, which makes for some amusing results. There used to be an analog channel 47 here (which went off the air before the digital switchover, I think they ran out of money) that carried a religious network, and sometimes it would go to a Dish Network "No Signal" screen for several days. I thought it'd be funny if it accidentally got switched to a different, completely inappropriate channel or something.
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post #9157 of 10120 Old 03-06-2012, 09:10 PM
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I've been using one of these for around 2 months now. In one very difficult room, I thought it might help for Fox 40. In addition to getting 40, it also brought in channel 10. In the same room, rabbit ears, a classic bowtie, a Mant 510, a freevision FV30, and a Silver Sensor failed to lock either VHF station.

We've had a couple of folks with VHF difficulties indoors. Provided you can return it, this is one to give a shot.

I also tried the RS budget with and without the rabbit ears.
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post #9158 of 10120 Old 03-06-2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitbills View Post

Anyone having a problem with KQCA 58-1? I do not get a picture at all, no sound, nothing, just "searching for signal." All the other Sac channels are OK.


58-1 seems normal here.
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post #9159 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 12:08 AM
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8traxrule...

Thanks for the info on channel 8, KBTV. From what you've reported they now have 6 sub-channels. Please confirm the following so that I can update my DTV channel lists:
8-1 Various Ethnic Programming
8-2 HOT - History of TV <-- You didn't mention this but this is what I have listed now
8-3 Jimmy Swaggart Network
8-4 Telos - Health and Wellness
8-5 Infomercials (24/7 ??)
8-6 Color bars, no sound

I had Boraq Net listed for 8-4. Is that gone now?

Thanks for the help.

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post #9160 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

I re-scanned again tonight without adjusting the rabbit ears and I now have 55 channels, including many SF channels!

And for the first time, I'm receiving METV on 20-2!!! Here is a list of the channels I'm receiving. Very few, marked "intermittent", cut out. I am very pleased and can't wait to run my antenna up on a 25 foot mast.

That is amazing reception for rabbit ears and FM loop! When you get your outdoor antenna up you're going to be able receive even more, of course. I'm anxious to see what you get. Let us know!

You listed two channel 42's each with four sub-channels. KTNC, transmitting from Mt. Diablo, I'm familiar with. For the past couple of days they've dropped the "This" movies on 42-3... I'm getting nothing on that channel now... and 42-4 that had the color bars has disappeared.

I only have one channel listed in my channel lists for KMSX and for that I have "Religion" shown. Would you please tell me what's on -2, -3 and -4 so that I can update my list. If 42-1 isn't religion, please update me on that too.

Thanks!

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post #9161 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 12:34 AM
 
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That's right- if you want to be exact, Jimmy Swaggart's network is called the Sonlife Broadcasting Network and I think the main channel is still called "Crossings TV". Seems like each time they add a new channel, the infomercial network gets bumped to the last channel- it seems to be coming from some national feed but again never IDs itself and shows the same 2 commercials in between the infomercials. Wonder how many people tune into that on purpose? Before the extra 2 channels went on, 8-4 was showing the video from that with audio from the Telos channel for a couple days. "TV Hot" seems to have started running infomercials all night too- odd since I suspected that RTV had been dumped because they already ran a lot of infomercials. No big deal since they both have an annoying bug; "TV Hot" seems to mostly show stuff that's in the public domain while RTV had much better shows I would have watched if they had been bug-free. 8-1 used to show infomercials in the overnight hours, but after they added the all-infomercials channel they've switched to something called The Liquidation Channel which always seems to be selling cheap jewelry.

Before they picked up Jimmy Swaggart on 8-3, they were running still pictures from a computer with an announcement saying "Boraq Broadcasting Network coming soon" but guess that didn't get off the ground or Jimmy offered the station more money to put his network on instead. I'm still amazed to see him back on TV at all, let alone getting an entire channel 24/7! (Too bad Dr. Gene Scott is dead, he used to own channel 38 in San Francisco and he was on that 24/7. He would yell at the cameras if not enough viewers were sending in money.)

Speaking of channel 42, their analog station was one of the farthest-reaching in the state (though they never ponied up for a stereo signal!) I take it their digital signal isn't as powerful as I can't pick it up now with my indoor antenna, though my friend with a roof antenna can.

And one last thing- what's the maximum number of sub-channels that's either allowed or the standard is capable of having? I've seen unacceptable amounts of compression on HD stations with NO subchannels (13 and 31), channel 8 has always looked awful with 4 and having 6 and counting should result in even more compression loveliness.
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post #9162 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 01:11 AM
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Thanks for the confirmation, 8traxrule, on the channel 8 programming. I'll use it to update my channel lists.

As for how many sub-channels a station can have, I don't know if there is a limit. KKPX 65 (RF 41) has sub-channels 1, 2, 3, 100, 200 and 300, although there's no programming on the last three. (They're using them for testing mobile TV, I understand.)

KAXT channel 1 (RF 42, a low power station on Mt. Allison in the South Bay) has 20! 1 through 12 are video and audio and 13 through 20 are audio only. I've been surprised by the video quality they send out. Some of the channels look really good while others look like VHS video tape.

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post #9163 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 11:56 AM
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Larry:

As of this time in Fair Oaks I am getting This Bay Area on 42-3 and color bars on 42-4. I am also getting a channel 38-1 K04QR-D which is broadcasting an infomercial at this time. This channel has no other subchannels. I do not see this 38-1 on your list. In addition I am getting a 49-5 KSAO and 49-6 AVIVA both transmitting color bars with a "THIS CHANNEL FOR LEASE 559-435-7000" and 'COCOLA BROADCASTING COMPANIES" super over it.

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post #9164 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the info, Rory. I didn't know about K04QR-D and have added it to my lists. I do have KSAO listed. Checking the FCC files, K04QR-D, virtual 38, is licensed to Esparto, transmitting on channel 4 with 300 watts. KSAO is licensed to Sacramento and transmits on channel 49 with 10.3 kW. Both K04QR and KSAO are transmitting from the same location, a site just north of Highway 50 between East Bidwell Street and Empire Ranch Road, southeast of Folsom. K04QR has a directional pattern toward the northwest and KSAO's signal is directed west. Neither station has any signal going to the east.

K04QR-D has applications on file for 5 kW on channel 16 and 1 kW on channel 19 and KSAO has an application on file for 15 kW ERP on channel 49, all from the same location.

If you find that K04QR transmits something other than infomercials, please let me know.

Larry
SF

Edit: Added info. I had no idea where Esparto was located, so did some checking. It's a small town on Highway 16 west of I-505. K04QR's signal does NOT reach that far. From what I've been told, low power stations don't have to cover their city of license and this one sure doesn't.

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post #9165 of 10120 Old 03-07-2012, 02:46 PM
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The channel 16 application was dismissed. The 19 remains pending, but I suspect will also be dismissed because it's an invalid displacement.

- Trip

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post #9166 of 10120 Old 03-11-2012, 08:30 AM
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Bob,

What's up with the commercial interruptions during the middle of scenes? Happened twice during Blue Bloods and happened last weekend during Good Wife? Missed some critical parts of the scenes.

S~

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post #9167 of 10120 Old 03-11-2012, 04:05 PM
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During Blue Bloods, at the mid-point, there was a long stretch of dead air (black screen). Later when those two obvious commercial inserts began my thinking was someone was trying to make up for the previous "lost" commercials. Agree it was very badly handled.
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post #9168 of 10120 Old 03-16-2012, 07:39 PM
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With the help of my brother, I hooked up my antenna (Winegard HD8200U). We used a 1.5 inch recycled water pipe. My brother fabricated super heavy duty mounts. One had an anchor that we cemented in the ground and the other is lag bolted into the 2 x 8 fascia and stud. The antenna is mounted at about 23'.

I receive METV (KCSO) with perfect reception (about 55 signal strength). Its been raining every day since I installed the antenna. Before it started raining, I could receive many Chico, bay area and even a couple of Reno/Truckee channels. I get excellent reception on all the local channels.

Is it normal to lose the extreme distance channels in the rain?

Thanks for all the advice you provided!
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post #9169 of 10120 Old 03-17-2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

Is it normal to lose the extreme distance channels in the rain?

It's the old temperature inversion thing. During periods of fair weather temperature inversions often form over the valley and bend the signals a little more than usual, especially at night and in the morning. This extends their range. Sometimes inversions set up in such a way as to bend signals away from you and you can lose stations at times that you normally receive. That shouldn't happen with any station from Walnut Grove for you.

Storms mostly wipe out temperature inversions and much of the signal bending disappears. I call this situation "nominal" conditions, no signal enhancement or degradation and is a good time to check what you can receive. Consider any stations you receive under better conditions to be a bonus.

On my TV a reading of 55 would be a very poor signal but your meter must be calibrated differently if KCSO is solid for you.

Glad it all worked out.

Chuck
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post #9170 of 10120 Old 03-25-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Mohu Leaf
I've been using one of these for around 2 months now. In one very difficult room, I thought it might help for Fox 40. In addition to getting 40, it also brought in channel 10. In the same room, rabbit ears, a classic bowtie, a Mant 510, a freevision FV30, and a Silver Sensor failed to lock either VHF station.

We've had a couple of folks with VHF difficulties indoors. Provided you can return it, this is one to give a shot.

I also tried the RS budget with and without the rabbit ears.

So, is a consensus forming that the Mohu Leaf, in spite of looking unimpressive, actually is really good? All the naysayers haven't tried it, and people who've tried it seem impressed.

Living in Morada, it's so close to Walnut Creek that I've been using a Cornet F-645 and been very happy with the results, but if the Mohu Leaf would cut down on some of the drop-outs on windy days, I'd give it a try. The price is right, that's for sure.
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post #9171 of 10120 Old 03-25-2012, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JNinCA View Post

So, is a consensus forming that the Mohu Leaf, in spite of looking unimpressive, actually is really good? All the naysayers haven't tried it, and people who've tried it seem impressed.

Living in Morada, it's so close to Walnut Creek that I've been using a Cornet F-645 and been very happy with the results, but if the Mohu Leaf would cut down on some of the drop-outs on windy days, I'd give it a try. The price is right, that's for sure.

The consensus for omni antennas is that they are usually bad. However, for persons who don't have a need for gain from an antenna, they may actually work. The Leaf doesn't have unshielded twin-lead or rabbit ears which may account for it getting vhf where other antennas don't. I have had some decent results for uhf during wind here also.

As always, indoor antenna reception is a participation sport. Aiming and repositioning the antenna is needed for best performance. My experience with the Leaf has been favorable so far.
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post #9172 of 10120 Old 03-26-2012, 08:18 AM
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A few comments not aimed at anyone in particular......

I have been involved with ham radio and TV antennas for over 40 years and I've found that the search for the "Magic Antenna" never ends. The Magic Antenna is that antenna that is smaller and mounted lower but performs as well as older, larger and higher antennas. Every new design that comes along making amazing claims becomes a candidate for the Magic Antenna. The more obscure the design the better. Some of them become popular, even attract a cult-like following, but eventually reality sets in that smaller and lower really isn't better, they lose their appeal and are forgotten. Sometimes they are rediscovered by a future generation and live to enjoy another round in the limelight as the Magic Antenna.

When the latest Magic Antenna surfaces I always ask myself, "If it's so good, why is not everyone using it?" Invariably the answer is that it's not so good.

I believe that because of the revolution in electronic miniaturization, people believe that there should be an equal revolution in antenna miniaturization. This is supported in average the consumer's mind by the incorporation of antennas inside of cell phones and other portable devices. What's not fully appreciated is that these systems are designed to work with the rather poor antennas contained in these devices, not due to a revolution in antenna miniaturization.

DTV broadcasting is designed to work with a moderate sized antenna mounted outdoors at 30'. It is not designed to work with some miniature antenna sitting next to your TV. If that works for some, it is happenstance and cannot be expected to work in the general case.

In Post #2 of the AVS Official Antenna and Hardware Related Topic Ken H makes a post that pretty much sums it up:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...26#post3552826

and with which I agree 100%.

Consider yourself lucky if you fall into the 0.56% and not because you've found the Magic Antenna.

Chuck
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post #9173 of 10120 Old 03-26-2012, 04:29 PM
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My "Magic Antenna" was recalled

www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml73/73015.html
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post #9174 of 10120 Old 03-31-2012, 11:37 PM
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Tonight and last night, the Fox40 10 o'clock news has been showing people who are Direct TV customers that over the air reception is possible. They have shown the antenna input on the back of a HD television. The antenna that they tested and "works like a champ" is a $8 monopole. They didn't identify the brand. If you're near Fruitridge, this may be worth a try.

I can think of another antenna for half that price.
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post #9175 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Tonight and last night, the Fox40 10 o'clock news has been showing people who are Direct TV customers that over the air reception is possible. They have shown the antenna input on the back of a HD television. The antenna that they tested and "works like a champ" is a $8 monopole. They didn't identify the brand. If you're near Fruitridge, this may be worth a try.

I can think of another antenna for half that price.

This morning, of course, Fox 40 was blacked out on Direct. I can still receive OTA through my Direct box, but only usually only use it for the sub-channels that Direct does not carry. Programmed 40-1 into the lineup and it looks as good as ever.

I wonder about Fox 40 showing Direct customers how to receive OTA signals. If they can see the news, they already have the OTA signal. If not, unless the viewer is getting the signal beamed into his head, he'll never know.
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post #9176 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 02:04 PM
 
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Putting broadcast stations on DirecTV is such a waste of bandwidth since their 'exclusive' channels are already overcompressed. If I had it I'd have no problem switching to my TV tuner to watch local stations- is the average cable/satellite user really so dense that they don't know how to use an over-the-air antenna? (KTXL's transmitter of course is in Walnut Grove so that's where their signal comes from, their operations are on Fruitridge but being near there will not have any bearing on your reception.)
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post #9177 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Shakespeare View Post

This morning, of course, Fox 40 was blacked out on Direct. I can still receive OTA through my Direct box, but only usually only use it for the sub-channels that Direct does not carry. Programmed 40-1 into the lineup and it looks as good as ever.

I wonder about Fox 40 showing Direct customers how to receive OTA signals. If they can see the news, they already have the OTA signal. If not, unless the viewer is getting the signal beamed into his head, he'll never know.

Persons without an OTA antenna could see the Fox 40 news on Direct last night. They can't tonight. There's certainly no shortage of persons who are not comfortable in their knowledge about OTA reception. Old antennas do work for HD. Old tvs, without a converter of some kind, don't get digital.
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post #9178 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 10:58 PM
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It would be interesting to know how many people actually go the trouble of attempting to get OTA reception when stations disappear from satellite. I have feeling, it is a tiny number. Even if they manage to plug an antenna into their TV and get something, they'll likely be miffed that they can't record it on their DVR. Unless they have an HR20, none of the subsequent DirecTV DVRs support OTA unless a separate OTA tuner accessory is purchased and installed. I doubt most DirecTV DVR users even know that exists.
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post #9179 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 11:48 PM
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It would be interesting to know how many people actually go the trouble of attempting to get OTA reception when stations disappear from satellite. I have feeling, it is a tiny number. Even if they manage to plug an antenna into their TV and get something, they'll likely be miffed that they can't record it on their DVR. Unless they have an HR20, none of the subsequent DirecTV DVRs support OTA unless a separate OTA tuner accessory is purchased and installed. I doubt most DirecTV DVR users even know that exists.

Having watched HD from nearly the beginning, I replaced my HD Tivo with an HR-20 and added a second about a year after they were released and many of the bugs worked out. When I later added a third box, it was an HR-21, but Direct provided an AM-21 without charge. I'm not sure that they're still so liberal with the OTA tuners, which now can be sought only to receive the sub-channels (those that Direct programs into the box). Direct should be creating awareness of the OTA recording possibilities for its subscribers, but of course, is not.
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post #9180 of 10120 Old 04-01-2012, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Persons without an OTA antenna could see the Fox 40 news on Direct last night. They can't tonight. There's certainly no shortage of persons who are not comfortable in their knowledge about OTA reception. Old antennas do work for HD. Old tvs, without a converter of some kind, don't get digital.

I did not realize that the news was still carried on Saturday. Fox 40's information to its viewers was reasonable. I'd also overlooked the fact that many subscribers use the Direct receiver as a digital converter for their analog TVs and no antenna will help them.
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