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post #10141 of 10159 Old 09-24-2014, 07:33 AM
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Crappy reception

Antenna is a deep fringe Weingard with a 7777 preamp on a rotator mounted about 30 agl. Last night when KOVR went bye bye, I changed over to chl 10 and the signal was almost as high as my Sony TV signal meter can go. Click back to KOVR and it dropped by over half. Checked out KCRA and it was almost max too. Something happened last night to KOVR and it wasn't the first time. It will be rock solid all summer long as long as everything is reruns, but as soon and the "new" season starts, the problems crop up. NCIS NO and person of interest were rock solid the entire night. I may go up and check out the connections this weekend as I seem to have lost my rotator meter indicator so I have to eyeball the antenna position. My only other gripe is I can get every SF station EXCEPT KPIX which just happens to be the only other CBS station I can receive. The past few weeks I've even been able to watch KOLO out of Reno with no problems. Oh well...
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post #10142 of 10159 Old 09-24-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slk230 View Post
Antenna is a deep fringe Weingard with a 7777 preamp on a rotator mounted about 30 agl. Last night when KOVR went bye bye, I changed over to chl 10 and the signal was almost as high as my Sony TV signal meter can go. Click back to KOVR and it dropped by over half.
This is just a case of temperature inversions occurring at inopportune times. When you have this problem with KOVR you should check KTFK. It's on RF 26 right next to KOVR and the antenna is on the same tower. I've found both stations to go up and down in unison. If KOVR is bad I would expect KTFK to be bad too. KXTV is also on the same tower but VHF can act different from UHF even from the same location.

I have the same lack of a back-up CBS station. KION is too unreliable and is subject to interference from KEMO on 32 and KPIX is too weak here to be reliable.

I'm still curious if you have LOS to Walnut Grove because LOS is usually quite reliable reception. The fact that your signals go up and down so much suggests you have at least 1 edge.

Chuck


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post #10143 of 10159 Old 09-24-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
This is just a case of temperature inversions occurring at inopportune times. When you have this problem with KOVR you should check KTFK. It's on RF 26 right next to KOVR and the antenna is on the same tower. I've found both stations to go up and down in unison. If KOVR is bad I would expect KTFK to be bad too. KXTV is also on the same tower but VHF can act different from UHF even from the same location.

I have the same lack of a back-up CBS station. KION is too unreliable and is subject to interference from KEMO on 32 and KPIX is too weak here to be reliable.

I'm still curious if you have LOS to Walnut Grove because LOS is usually quite reliable reception. The fact that your signals go up and down so much suggests you have at least 1 edge.

Chuck
I'm 35.92 miles not LOS. I have a ridge less than five miles from QTH blocking LOS.
I have a similar issue going towards SF. There I have two ridges, one at about 5 miles and a second higher one at 11 miles. Sutro is 26.17 miles away. I haven't seen too many issues with temp inversions / ducting or sun bore-sight interference.

I do notice any time KOVR goes on their back-up, I lose them.

Back in the analog days, I could pull in channel 12 from Chico without any problem. Based on testing I performed with a VHF radio system years ago, I discovered that for any given power, the digital signal went half the distance that the analog went. We ended up installing portable repeaters in the staff cars to compensate for the loss. The hand held radios only needed to make it to the cars and the higher power radio in the car would reach the base stations. I expected the same thing to happen with HDTV and it appears to be the case. That's why the deep fringe antenna and the preamp just to get what should be a good signal.

Longest "skip" I ever got was when I lived in Pleasant Hill and got an El Paso, Tx station one night. Came in great. Better than any SF station.

Oh Well
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post #10144 of 10159 Old 09-24-2014, 10:06 PM
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I'm 35.92 miles not LOS. I have a ridge less than five miles from QTH blocking LOS.
I have a similar issue going towards SF. There I have two ridges, one at about 5 miles and a second higher one at 11 miles. Sutro is 26.17 miles away. I haven't seen too many issues with temp inversions / ducting or sun bore-sight interference.

I do notice any time KOVR goes on their back-up, I lose them.

Back in the analog days, I could pull in channel 12 from Chico without any problem. Based on testing I performed with a VHF radio system years ago, I discovered that for any given power, the digital signal went half the distance that the analog went. We ended up installing portable repeaters in the staff cars to compensate for the loss. The hand held radios only needed to make it to the cars and the higher power radio in the car would reach the base stations. I expected the same thing to happen with HDTV and it appears to be the case. That's why the deep fringe antenna and the preamp just to get what should be a good signal.

Longest "skip" I ever got was when I lived in Pleasant Hill and got an El Paso, Tx station one night. Came in great. Better than any SF station.

Oh Well

I know there was fading in the analog days too but we just put up with it and tend to forget the times when the signals were not so good. I think the "digital cliff" gives us a distorted sense of what's going on. I still receive a few analog signals here and they vary hugely in quality.

Unfortunately non LOS invites very large swings in signal strength and if your signals are a bit marginal then you'll have problems during bad times.

I don't think the kind of solar interference you mention is possible on UHF or VHF with the relatively low gain antennas and high power transmitters we have. That problem is mostly confined to high gain dishes receiving weak satellite signals.

If you haven't noticed the effects of temperature inversions it's because your signals have enough margin most of the time. I'm sure if you monitored your signals over time with a spectrum analyzer you'd see quite a bit of variation. I've monitored KSBW here and have seen 30 dB or more total swings in signal strength but the station is so strong and low multipath that it never drops out. If I had never made it a point to look at it I'd have never known what was going on.

Chuck


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post #10145 of 10159 Old 09-28-2014, 08:00 AM
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KOVR

Looks like KOVR is on the back-up antenna this morning. It's down about 12 dB in signal strength and the SNR is down too. KTFK is normal strength and so is KXTV both on the same tower.

What happened?

Chuck

Edit: Back to the main antenna at 8:30 am.


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Last edited by Calaveras; 09-28-2014 at 08:37 AM.
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post #10146 of 10159 Old 09-28-2014, 12:56 PM
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Hi guys I was wondering if anyone here knows an affordable way to purchase or build a 25-30 foot tower. I see they are pretty expensive when purchased through solidsignal. Any thoughts?

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10147 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Hi guys I was wondering if anyone here knows an affordable way to purchase or build a 25-30 foot tower. I see they are pretty expensive when purchased through solidsignal. Any thoughts?

What do you consider to be affordable?

Chuck


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post #10148 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
What do you consider to be affordable?

Chuck
That's a good question... I think the $600 ones I see on solidsignal are a little pricey for me. I do however like the way a tower looks and wouldn't mind paying around $300 for one. After searching the net all I am really able to find are towers from solidsignal though.

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10149 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 12:35 PM
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That's a good question... I think the $600 ones I see on solidsignal are a little pricey for me.

I'll sell you my 50' Rohn 25 tower plus all the accessories for that much.

Chuck


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post #10150 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 05:41 PM
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KXTV

The FCC finally approved today the KXTV application to operate a channel 36 low power translator station. Looks like the location is the tower next to their building in Sacramento.

Now the question is will it actually be built?

Chuck


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post #10151 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 09:02 PM
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I'll sell you my 50' Rohn 25 tower plus all the accessories for that much.

Chuck
Its tempting... anything in the 30' range? Is the Rohn self supporting?

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10152 of 10159 Old 09-29-2014, 09:51 PM
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Its tempting... anything in the 30' range? Is the Rohn self supporting?
You could house bracket 30' but not 50'. Below is picture of when I had it up. I replaced it with a crank-up tower.

Chuck
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post #10153 of 10159 Old 09-30-2014, 12:27 AM
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Hi guys I was wondering if anyone here knows an affordable way to purchase or build a 25-30 foot tower. I see they are pretty expensive when purchased through solidsignal. Any thoughts?
If you just need a 25-30 foot-plus cable-supported freestanding mast and not a heavy-duty climbable tower, why not go for a Channel Master 25 or 40 foot telescoping mast?
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/An...Masts_s/42.htm

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post #10154 of 10159 Old 09-30-2014, 08:42 AM
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@Calaveras , nice tower! That has quite the antenna mounted onto it. How tall is your current crank up tower?
@Smoke_signal , I was interested in a self supporting tower because I have a little yard and don't want anything attached to the house. Ideally a 30' crank up tower would be great.

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10155 of 10159 Old 09-30-2014, 09:41 AM
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@Calaveras , nice tower! That has quite the antenna mounted onto it. How tall is your current crank up tower?

It's a 55' crank-up/tilt-over. Image with current antennas attached.

A 33' crank-up self-supporting tower is $2000 - $3000. The least expensive good quality tower is Rohn 25 but it's not self supporting and you have to climb it.

A push-up mast is much cheaper and may very well be good enough for you. It's not self-supporting either.

As soon as you mention self-supporting the price goes way up. Towers can be had from estate sales at low cost or even free but you often have to take them down, transport them, and buy a new base.

Chuck
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post #10156 of 10159 Old 09-30-2014, 02:07 PM
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It's a 55' crank-up/tilt-over. Image with current antennas attached.

A 33' crank-up self-supporting tower is $2000 - $3000. The least expensive good quality tower is Rohn 25 but it's not self supporting and you have to climb it.

A push-up mast is much cheaper and may very well be good enough for you. It's not self-supporting either.

As soon as you mention self-supporting the price goes way up. Towers can be had from estate sales at low cost or even free but you often have to take them down, transport them, and buy a new base.

Chuck
Excellent set up!

I'll keep an eye out for estate sales in my neighborhood. I've actually seen quite a bit of the self supporting type in persons backyards that are being un-utilized. I'm tempted to knock and offer. It would be a pain to have to dig up the concrete base... but in the end I think I would save quite a few dollars doing so.

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10157 of 10159 Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
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It would be a pain to have to dig up the concrete base... but in the end I think I would save quite a few dollars doing so.

I don't think that's practical. Most self supporting towers have yards of concrete in the ground. Each of my towers has 5 yards of concrete.

Chuck


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post #10158 of 10159 Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM
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The least expensive good quality tower is Rohn 25 but it's not self supporting and you have to climb it.
Rohn 25 can be self supporting, but only for certain heights and light loads.

http://www.rohnnet.com/filedownload/...m4a7c7dd151123

Ron

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post #10159 of 10159 Old Today, 02:09 AM
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Telephone Pole Antenna Tower

Have you considered having your local utility install a telephone pole for an antenna tower? It's self-supporting, wind-resistant, does not require tons of concrete, and a hinge and pulley system can be used to raise and lower your antenna mast from the ground. If you want to climb it, you can install pole climbing pegs so you don't need spiked boots and climbing belts.

Convert Telephone Pole To Hinged Antenna Tower
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/spe...nna-tower.html

http://www.iw5edi.com/technical-arti...e-utility-pole

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