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post #10171 of 10199 Old 10-09-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hammerdwn View Post
Sorry to dig up the past, but the issue continues. Center channel dialog is muffled and low, bass is over bearing, background music/sound effects have a reverb echo distortion like a cave. Add shows like "What would you do" and "20/20" to the problem. Don't ever have this on "Jimmy Kimmel".

I have noticed, just within the past several weeks, that I am now having a very similar issue on many (but not all) shows on the Investigation Discovery channel. The difference is these programs don't have background music/sound effects that have the reverb echo distortion like a cave thing. I can rewind the show and have verified the level of the center channel dialog is in the file (it's not my surround system faltering).
I have the same issue. All of the background sound are too loud and very distorted. I've watched the same shows On Demand and can confirm the On Demand sounds perfect while the signal from KXTV are incredibly distorted. It's been this way for years and I thought it was a problem with my system. I finally compared against On Demand it the difference is night and day.
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post #10172 of 10199 Old 10-09-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by keith_benedict View Post
I have the same issue. All of the background sound are too loud and very distorted. I've watched the same shows On Demand and can confirm the On Demand sounds perfect while the signal from KXTV are incredibly distorted. It's been this way for years and I thought it was a problem with my system. I finally compared against On Demand it the difference is night and day.
I've never watched on demand (because I use WMC PC). All I can say is, the audio on KXTV (ABC primetime shows) BITES. It sounds like everything is in an echo chamber or run through a reverb processor.
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post #10173 of 10199 Old 10-09-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hammerdwn View Post
I've never watched on demand (because I use WMC PC). All I can say is, the audio on KXTV (ABC primetime shows) BITES. It sounds like everything is in an echo chamber or run through a reverb processor.
The audio almost sounds like it's encoded at a very low bit rate. The first time I noticed it was during Revenge. I thought it was deliberate to match the dissonance of the show.

Now I want to watch the series over again to hear what I was missing.
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post #10174 of 10199 Old 10-10-2014, 06:00 PM
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The engineer at KXTV must think that on shows like Castle the background music is more important than the spoken dialog. During these moments I try my best at employing dog ears.
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post #10175 of 10199 Old 10-11-2014, 01:17 PM
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I only have stereo for my TV audio and I haven't had a chance to perform this test on an evening network program, but today on the football game I was able to switch rapidly between KXTV, KGO and KSBW. The audio on KGO and KSBW sounded identical but the KXTV audio sounds like the high frequency response is slightly rolled off. It doesn't have the crispness heard on the other two stations.

I suppose this doesn't mean anything but KXTV is a few seconds ahead in time compared to KGO which is a few seconds ahead of KSBW.

Chuck
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post #10176 of 10199 Old 10-11-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I only have stereo for my TV audio and I haven't had a chance to perform this test on an evening network program, but today on the football game I was able to switch rapidly between KXTV, KGO and KSBW. The audio on KGO and KSBW sounded identical but the KXTV audio sounds like the high frequency response is slightly rolled off. It doesn't have the crispness heard on the other two stations.

I suppose this doesn't mean anything but KXTV is a few seconds ahead in time compared to KGO which is a few seconds ahead of KSBW.

Chuck
It's gonna be tough doing any kind of test/comparison just using stereo speakers.

I've heard the KXTV audio problems on these prime time shows - Castle, 20/20, Motive, Revenge, What Would You Do, Forever, Agents of Shield.

Never heard problems on local news, Jimmy Kimmel, Good Morning America, (nightly) ABC World News. In fact the Jimmy Kimmel musical acts sound really great.

Only prime time show that doesn't seem to have the audio problem is How to Get Away with Murder.

I've tried bringing this up in a National ABC topic but it always gets dismissed or ignored...

Last edited by hammerdwn; 10-21-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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post #10177 of 10199 Old 10-17-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KOVR

Looks like KOVR is on the back-up antenna this morning. It's down about 12 dB in signal strength and the SNR is down too. KTFK is normal strength and so is KXTV both on the same tower.

What happened?

Chuck

Edit: Back to the main antenna at 8:30 am.
Chuck,

We lost two of our three amplifiers at the main site. Switched to the backup. Sorry, late in reading this.

Bob
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post #10178 of 10199 Old 11-03-2014, 04:00 AM
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I have a DirecTV HR20-700, and I can no longer pick up the ABC and CBS affiliates in my bedroom TV. I kept getting 721...792 errors.


When I reinstalled the guide these two stations do not know appear in the guide. I still get all the OTA stations in my living room HR20-700.


I know the ABC affiliate must be weak because I often cannot pick it up on my PC's Media Center.


Anyone else have this problem? Recommendations? Thanks!
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post #10179 of 10199 Old 11-04-2014, 03:00 AM
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Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1265 Tuner Card Provides the Best Fringe Reception

I have been playing with my new Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1265 single tuner card which has the best tuner sensitivity of any PC ATSC tuner on the market! I have now found its sensitivity is even better than my LG M237WD 23" HDTV/monitor which has been my gold standard for tuner sensitivity....until NOW! The WinTV-HVR-1265 is able to lock onto marginal KCRA signals that my LG M237WD cannot. So now I will be able to watch some KCRA programs at times I would not have been able to due to temperature inversions. It's not a solution for KCRA's overly narrow broadcast antenna beam, but a definite improvement!

The WinTV-HVR-1265 tuner sensitivity beats my LG M237WD HDTV which beats my Hauppauge Aero-m USB tuner which beats the new Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2255 dual tuner card, in that order. The new WinTV-HVR-1265 replaces the old WinTV-HVR-1250 tuner card. The new WinTV-HVR-2255 replaces the old WinTV-HVR-2250 dual tuner card. They have the latest LG3306A demodulator chip. The WinTV-HVR-2255 has a built-in antenna splitter for the dual tuners which apparently very significantly degrades the tuner sensitivity compared to the WinTV-HVR-1265 single tuner card which has no splitter. If you are looking for a dual PC tuner card and want the best tuner sensitivity, get two WinTV-HVR-1265 cards instead. The difference is BIG! (I bought and quickly returned a WinTV-HVR-2255 dual tuner card after finding its tuner sensitivity unacceptable.)
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post #10180 of 10199 Old 11-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoke_signal View Post
I have been playing with my new Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1265 single tuner card which has the best tuner sensitivity of any PC ATSC tuner on the market! I have now found its sensitivity is even better than my LG M237WD 23" HDTV/monitor which has been my gold standard for tuner sensitivity....until NOW!

Are you talking about sensitivity or multipath handling? Tuner sensitivity is pretty much set by its noise figure. If you have a mast mounted preamp tuner noise figure is mostly irrelevant. OTOH, an increase in multipath handling would be a welcome improvement.

Chuck
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post #10181 of 10199 Old 11-04-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by igreg View Post
I have a DirecTV HR20-700, and I can no longer pick up the ABC and CBS affiliates in my bedroom TV. I kept getting 721...792 errors.


When I reinstalled the guide these two stations do not know appear in the guide. I still get all the OTA stations in my living room HR20-700.


I know the ABC affiliate must be weak because I often cannot pick it up on my PC's Media Center.


Anyone else have this problem? Recommendations? Thanks!

No one answered you so I thought I'd at least say something. You're having an OTA issue? Channel 10 is not weak. More information about your antenna and location might be helpful. TV Fool report too.

Chuck
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post #10182 of 10199 Old 11-04-2014, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Are you talking about sensitivity or multipath handling? Tuner sensitivity is pretty much set by its noise figure. If you have a mast mounted preamp tuner noise figure is mostly irrelevant. OTOH, an increase in multipath handling would be a welcome improvement.
We are talking about being able to lock onto a lower level signal given the same noise background, i.e. the demodulator of the more sensitive tuner is able decode a signal in a low signal to noise ratio situation while the demodulator of the less sensitive tuner is unable decode the same signal. Multipath may or may not be a part of the "noise". It's just one form of interference.

Regardless, just accept the fact that a tuner that locks onto a signal that another tuner is unable to lock on is considered to be more sensitive by just about any normal person.

Last edited by Smoke_signal; 11-04-2014 at 10:07 PM.
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post #10183 of 10199 Old 11-06-2014, 10:53 AM
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Retro TV/Heartland and Jewelery TV coming to Sac again.

Within 2-3 weeks KBTV-CD is adding Retro TV and Heartland TV along with Jewelry TV. We will have 7 streams soon. Wizebuys (infomercials on 8.5 is making an exit.) Jewelry TV may be delayed as we need to install a 3.7m C band dish to pick up that network.


Mako, LLC has a mux on G19 for some of the networks that we carry. Luken is providing their networks on the G19 KU mux for us.


Bill Honigs
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post #10184 of 10199 Old 11-11-2014, 10:22 AM
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Within 2-3 weeks KBTV-CD is adding Retro TV and Heartland TV along with Jewelry TV. We will have 7 streams soon. Wizebuys (infomercials on 8.5 is making an exit.) Jewelry TV may be delayed as we need to install a 3.7m C band dish to pick up that network.


Mako, LLC has a mux on G19 for some of the networks that we carry. Luken is providing their networks on the G19 KU mux for us.


Bill Honigs

Well, things change.. 8.2 is a no go for Jewelry TV because we cannot install a 3.7m dish at our transmitter location.


BUT 8.5 and 8.7 will be RETRO and HEARTLAND soon. We have some test video up on 8.7 now (SBN feed) no audio right now. 8.2 will disappear sometime this week.
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post #10185 of 10199 Old 11-11-2014, 01:33 PM
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Well, things change.. 8.2 is a no go for Jewelry TV because we cannot install a 3.7m dish at our transmitter location.

BUT 8.5 and 8.7 will be RETRO and HEARTLAND soon. We have some test video up on 8.7 now (SBN feed) no audio right now. 8.2 will disappear sometime this week.

Since switching to RF 27 KBTV has had a reliable signal even though it only runs about SNR 20 dB. It's rare for me to point over there and not see it.

Chuck
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post #10186 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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Analog signal on RF 22

I'm trying to solve a mystery as to what station is on RF 22. It is an unmodulated analog signal and rather weak. With no modulation all I get is a bit less noise in the picture and quieting of the noise in the audio. The signal has several peaks. One is towards Sacramento, one about 55 degrees and one about 115 degrees. All are about equal in strength. If it's coming from the Sacramento area the latter two peaks are likely to be reflections off the mountains east of me. I see this a lot.

I think it is K22FR located in North Highlands, a station that should have been off the air a long time ago. If you copy and paste these coordinates into Google Earth and go to street view you can see a large tower on the north side of the road.

38 40 21N, 121 19 55W

If anyone closer to this location than I am can take a look at analog 22 to see if the signal is present and post here I'd appreciate it.

If it looks like it is K22FR I'll file a complaint with the FCC to see if they'll contact the owner and get if off the air.

Chuck
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post #10187 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I'm trying to solve a mystery as to what station is on RF 22. It is an unmodulated analog signal and rather weak. With no modulation all I get is a bit less noise in the picture and quieting of the noise in the audio. The signal has several peaks. One is towards Sacramento, one about 55 degrees and one about 115 degrees. All are about equal in strength. If it's coming from the Sacramento area the latter two peaks are likely to be reflections off the mountains east of me. I see this a lot.

I think it is K22FR located in North Highlands, a station that should have been off the air a long time ago. If you copy and paste these coordinates into Google Earth and go to street view you can see a large tower on the north side of the road.

38 40 21N, 121 19 55W

If anyone closer to this location than I am can take a look at analog 22 to see if the signal is present and post here I'd appreciate it.

If it looks like it is K22FR I'll file a complaint with the FCC to see if they'll contact the owner and get if off the air.

Chuck
Hmm... Just checked my server to see if 22 registered and it does not. Granted my antenna is 42 miles or so north of North Highlands. I'm in the river district of Sac today and may swing by that location and take a look. Wish I had a portable antenna with my laptop and I would try it out. Maybe I'll re-position my antenna a little east tonight and give it a try.

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post #10188 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 01:28 PM
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Hmm... Just checked my server to see if 22 registered and it does not.
Does it look for analog stations?

Chuck
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post #10189 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 01:33 PM
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Does it look for analog stations?

Chuck
It has been a long time since I've done a channel scan, however, from what I remember when I did a scan using WMC is that it picked up two analog channels. I'm using a Hauppauge WinTV tuner.

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post #10190 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 01:39 PM
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I live in Roseville off Blue Oaks and Woodcreek, and I'd be happy to add an attic antenna and PC tuner card if it would result in better reception for OTA sports, particularly college and pro football. I'd keep the comcast X1 service going, but if adding an antenna and pc card (already setup as HTPC) would improve the signal and offer a noticeable improvement, I'll probably do it.

Anybody compared OTA vs Roseville Digital Comcast? I read through about twenty pages of this thread but haven't come across anything yet.

Thanks. Zac.
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post #10191 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I'm trying to solve a mystery as to what station is on RF 22.
I think it is K22FR located in North Highlands, a station that should have been off the air a long time ago.
If anyone closer to this location than I am can take a look at analog 22 to see if the signal is present and post here I'd appreciate it.
Chuck
I can check this on 11/27 when I am in the area visiting family for the turkey day.
With both a battery tv and the residential OTA set.

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I live in Roseville off Blue Oaks and Woodcreek,
Anybody compared OTA vs Roseville Digital Comcast? I read through about twenty pages of this thread but haven't come across anything yet.

Thanks. Zac.
What are you looking for? ... A specific channel?... or HD picture quality?
Our neighborhood near Silverado middle school uses Surewest Cable not Comcast.

Ben
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post #10192 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I'm trying to solve a mystery as to what station is on RF 22. It is an unmodulated analog signal and rather weak. With no modulation all I get is a bit less noise in the picture and quieting of the noise in the audio. The signal has several peaks. One is towards Sacramento, one about 55 degrees and one about 115 degrees. All are about equal in strength. If it's coming from the Sacramento area the latter two peaks are likely to be reflections off the mountains east of me. I see this a lot.

I think it is K22FR located in North Highlands, a station that should have been off the air a long time ago. If you copy and paste these coordinates into Google Earth and go to street view you can see a large tower on the north side of the road.

38 40 21N, 121 19 55W

If anyone closer to this location than I am can take a look at analog 22 to see if the signal is present and post here I'd appreciate it.

If it looks like it is K22FR I'll file a complaint with the FCC to see if they'll contact the owner and get if off the air.

Chuck
I can see the dead visual and Aural carriers here in Fair Oaks with my spectrum analyzer being fed by a whip antenna with a preamp in the line. If I look at my TV antenna it is there but not very strong so All I can say is that it is not in the direction of Walnut Grove from Fair Oaks.

Rory
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post #10193 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacjones View Post
I live in Roseville off Blue Oaks and Woodcreek, and I'd be happy to add an attic antenna and PC tuner card if it would result in better reception for OTA sports, particularly college and pro football. I'd keep the comcast X1 service going, but if adding an antenna and pc card (already setup as HTPC) would improve the signal and offer a noticeable improvement, I'll probably do it.

Anybody compared OTA vs Roseville Digital Comcast? I read through about twenty pages of this thread but haven't come across anything yet.

Thanks. Zac.
I've compared KCRA (Broadcasts 1080p) with both an antenna and with Comcast. I really didn't see much of a difference. Since I was cutting the cord I may have fooled myself in believing that OTA was better (some have said there is less compression etc.) but in all actuality I think most wouldn't be able to tell the difference even if one was more lossy than the other.

It'd be worth installing an OTA solution if you were looking to cut the cord or if you wanted OTA for a backup but if you are keeping Comcast why go through the trouble?

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post #10194 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory Boyce View Post
I can see the dead visual and Aural carriers here in Fair Oaks with my spectrum analyzer being fed by a whip antenna with a preamp in the line. If I look at my TV antenna it is there but not very strong so All I can say is that it is not in the direction of Walnut Grove from Fair Oaks.
Thanks for the report! North Highlands would be off the back corner of your antenna so that makes sense.

Chuck
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post #10195 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
It'd be worth installing an OTA solution if you were looking to cut the cord or if you wanted OTA for a backup but if you are keeping Comcast why go through the trouble?
I think most people ARE looking to cut the cord and save money, not because they think quality is going to be significantly different. It probably isn't worth it for Zac.

Chuck
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post #10196 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
I can check this on 11/27 when I am in the area visiting family for the turkey day.
With both a battery tv and the residential OTA set.

What are you looking for? ... A specific channel?... or HD picture quality?
Our neighborhood near Silverado middle school uses Surewest Cable not Comcast.

Ben
Mainly just looking for sports picture quality improvement in HD on ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX.

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I've compared KCRA (Broadcasts 1080p) with both an antenna and with Comcast. I really didn't see much of a difference. Since I was cutting the cord I may have fooled myself in believing that OTA was better (some have said there is less compression etc.) but in all actuality I think most wouldn't be able to tell the difference even if one was more lossy than the other.

It'd be worth installing an OTA solution if you were looking to cut the cord or if you wanted OTA for a backup but if you are keeping Comcast why go through the trouble?
Not looking to cut the cord, but I do watch on my 120" projection screen sometimes and any improvements would probably be noticed by me anyway. Even downstairs when I'm pacing back and forth in front of the TV for a big game I tend to stand fairly close, so I think I might notice more than the average person watching from 12-15' away.

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I think most people ARE looking to cut the cord and save money, not because they think quality is going to be significantly different. It probably isn't worth it for Zac.

Chuck
You're probably right. Just to get it out of my system though I may end up buying an antenna locally and trying it out through the TV tuner anyway. I tried an indoor antenna but couldn't get any stations. Next step is temporarily rig up an antenna on the roof or in the attic and see if I can tell any difference.

Thanks for your input guys!
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post #10197 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 06:02 PM
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Good idea... never hurts to try.

Living room theater set-up:  
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1124-K.
Speakers/Sub: (4) NHT Classic Two and an NHT TwoC center + PSA-XV15 subwoofer.
HTPC: z97 mobo, 16GB mem, i5-4440, SSD+HD, LG BD drive, Win 8.1 pro w/WMC + MB3.
Content sources: OTA Winegard HD7698P, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Netflix etc.
HDTV: Sharp LC-60SQ15U (ehhh).
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post #10198 of 10199 Old 11-23-2014, 07:24 PM
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FYI
Most if not all local stations feed Comcast via a direct fiber link. Comcast is not supposed to do anything that would reduce the picture quality but they do process the data stream through something that delays the signal significantly before it ends up at viewers homes. The end result is that OTA viewers see what is happening about two seconds ahead of Comcast customers.

Rory
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post #10199 of 10199 Old Yesterday, 02:36 PM
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Rev'n TV

KBTV now has Rev'n TV on the .7 sub channel. This is a brand new channel. It is scheduled to begin December 1, 2014 at 12 am.

www.revntv.com

The programming is exactly what the name implies.

Chuck
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