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post #10681 of 10706 Old 07-20-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
We are moving to Del Webb community in Lincoln next month. I read in Yelp that all the major network antennas were in Walnut Grove. That looks like it's way southwest of Sacramento. Will I be able to get decent reception with one of the new indoor digital antennas in Lincoln, which is northeast of Roseville? I'm hoping that someone following this thread lives in E to NE Sacramento.
I agree with Chuck - you will have a difficult time receiving the local channels from Lincoln with an indoor antenna.

I live in Lincoln. When I moved here 5 years ago I started out using rabbit ears, but reception was very spotty and some channels I could never get.
I ended up buying a ChannelMaster CM2016 antenna -
https://www.channelmaster.com/Digita..._p/cm-2016.htm
I was renting a home near downtown Lincoln, and mounted the antenna on a brick chimney. After a year, I bought a home (single story) a few miles away west of the 65 and north of Ferrari Ranch Rd. I ended up putting the antenna in the attic, and it worked great. Once settled in, I bought a Winegard HDA-200 Distribution Amp so I could send the antenna signal to multiple rooms -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My TV reception has been rock solid ever since. On rare occasions (weather, temperature inversions, etc), I can receive channels from San Francisco!

I hope this helps.
Ray
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post #10682 of 10706 Old 07-25-2017, 07:55 PM
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KTXL 1.5 Degree Beam Tilt Protest

KTXL, Fox 40, has applied to install a new broadcast antenna with a beam tilt of 1.5 degrees for the FCC repack switch from channel 40 to channel 33. The current channel 40 antenna has a beam tilt of 0.5 degrees. The change to a 1.5 degree beam downward tilt would severely impact KTXL reception in the Sierra foothills due to the foothill elevations being higher than the path and width of the broadcast beam. The area of service contour map provided by KTXL does NOT realistically consider the impact of a 1.5 degree beam tilt, and the reception shown for the Sierra foothill region is HIGHLY optimistic.

UHF broadcast antennas typically have a beam tilt of NO MORE than 1.0 degree, often 0.75 degrees. It is common for VHF broadcast antennas to have a 1.5 degree beam tilt because the beam width of a VHF antenna is usually quite wide compared to UHF antennas. A 1.5 degree beam tilt for a UHF broadcast antenna is extreme.

I earlier emailed Gary Cox, KTXL Director of Engineering, and Bob Karlinsey, KTXL Director of Technology, expressing my concerns and alarm over the choice of a 1.5 degree beam tilt. Below is the text of those emails. Only Bob Karlinsey replied, but not to my second email. I urge all concerned Sierra foothill KTXL viewers to express in emails their own concerns over the loss of KTXL reception following the implementation of the switch to channel 33 due to the choice of a 1.5 beam tilt and demand that a 0.5 beam tilt be retained as is current for channel 40. The FCC repack should NOT result in a loss of service to current viewers of any station. That is just NOT RIGHT!!!

KTXL_Antenna_Information.pdf
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...90942&goBack=N

KTXL_Predicted_Coverage_Contours.pdf
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...90942&goBack=N


-------------------------------------------------
From: Me...
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 7:14 AM
To: Cox, Gary <Gary.Cox@Fox40.com>
&
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 11:41 PM
To: Karlinsey, Bob <Bob.Karlinsey@Fox40.com>
Subject: New KTXL Ch 33 Antenna FCC Minor Modification Application

To KTXL Engineering:

Your FCC Minor Modification Application, granted on 6/16/2017 for a new KTXL channel 33 broadcast antenna, specifies a Dielectric TFU-22ETT/VP-R 3BP250SP with a 1.5 degree Electrical Beam Tilt. Your current channel 40 broadcast antenna is a Dielectric TFU-24ETT/VP-R 3BP250SP with a 0.5 degree Electrical Beam Tilt. I am extremely alarmed and concerned that the new antenna is specified as having a 1.5 degree beam tilt and hope that this is just a specification error.

I am a KTXL viewer in the Pollock Pines area. For the elevation beam width pattern of the new antenna, a 1.5 degree beam tilt would only permit a very small and completely unreliable fraction of the KTXL signal to reach the 3400 ft Sierra foothill elevation where I am located. The bulk of the signal would simply fall upon the slopes of the lower intervening foothills. I already have issues with the KCRA/KQCA/KMAX broadcast antenna which has the highest gain and narrowest elevation beam width in all of California. It has a beam tilt of only 0.75 degrees, and, of all the major Walnut Grove stations, KCRA, KQCA, and KMAX are the only non-viewable stations at my location due to the overly narrow beam. I have the best receiving antennas and systems available including an 8-foot parabolic dish antenna I recently custom built and designed at my own significant cost and labor, all to no avail. KTXL has been one of the strongest and most reliable stations received here, and I would hate to lose that station as a result of an inappropriate broadcast antenna choice.

Please tell me that the 1.5 degree beam tilt specification is an error!!!!! The 0.5 degree beam tilt you have now for channel 40 is just fine. Why would you increase the beam tilt and kill so much Sierra foothill reception???????

--------------------------------------------------
From: Karlinsey, Bob
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 7:32 AM
Cc: Cox, Gary
Subject: RE: New KTXL Ch 33 Antenna FCC Minor Modification Application

Hello ___,

The information you sent along in the email is correct for the channel change and installation of the new antenna system (FCC Repack).

The documented beam tilt is 1.5 degrees as you have researched and in the documentation provided to us by the manufacturer.

That being said, we are sorry that your reception of our signal may be in jeopardy due to the design and specifications of the new antenna.

We appreciate that you enjoy our programming and are hopeful that you will still have reception and will continue to enjoy our programming after the FCC Repack.

Thank you for contacting us and being a loyal viewer.

Sincerely,
Bob

Robert L. Karlinsey | Director of Technology | 4655 Fruitridge Road, Sacramento, CA 95820

--------------------------------------------------
From: Me...
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 6:56 PM
To: Karlinsey, Bob <Bob.Karlinsey@Fox40.com>
Subject: RE: New KTXL Ch 33 Antenna FCC Minor Modification Application

As I understand, a customer ordering a Dielectric broadcast antenna specifies the beam tilt, and Dielectric builds and provides the antenna to the customer's specification. There is NO reason why KTXL cannot request the new antenna be built with a 0.5 degree beam tilt. YOU have the option NOW, before it is too late, to order an antenna built with the specifications appropriate to properly serve KTXL viewers within your service area, which includes the Sierra foothills. You are NOT locked in to a 1.5 degree beam tilt, which is unnecessarily excessive, and the repack should NOT be cutting off current viewers from OTA viewing! Please reconsider your beam tilt specification BEFORE committing to an antenna order from Dielectric. I refuse to be forced to pay for satellite or streaming TV services, I don't have high speed internet, and I have already shelled out enough dollars for antennas and HDTVs and HDTV PC boards. Please order a broadcast antenna which adequately serves your current viewers. The FCC reimburses KTXL for the antenna cost, and that money should be used to cover and serve all current viewers!!!
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post #10683 of 10706 Old 07-25-2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthemAZ.HDTV View Post
I agree with Chuck - you will have a difficult time receiving the local channels from Lincoln with an indoor antenna.

I live in Lincoln. When I moved here 5 years ago I started out using rabbit ears, but reception was very spotty and some channels I could never get.
I ended up buying a ChannelMaster CM2016 antenna -
https://www.channelmaster.com/Digita..._p/cm-2016.htm
I was renting a home near downtown Lincoln, and mounted the antenna on a brick chimney. After a year, I bought a home (single story) a few miles away west of the 65 and north of Ferrari Ranch Rd. I ended up putting the antenna in the attic, and it worked great. Once settled in, I bought a Winegard HDA-200 Distribution Amp so I could send the antenna signal to multiple rooms -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My TV reception has been rock solid ever since. On rare occasions (weather, temperature inversions, etc), I can receive channels from San Francisco!

I hope this helps.
Ray
Ray,

This is exactly what I was looking for. I am bookmarking your response and once we move in, about two blocks from Ferrari Ranch Rd., I will use it to implement this solution. I believe the home we bought has an attic that will work. No matter what the law says I am not about to try an external antenna and invite the attention of my neighbors and the HOA.
AnthemAZ.HDTV likes this.

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post #10684 of 10706 Old 07-26-2017, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
Ray,

This is exactly what I was looking for. I am bookmarking your response and once we move in, about two blocks from Ferrari Ranch Rd., I will use it to implement this solution. I believe the home we bought has an attic that will work. No matter what the law says I am not about to try an external antenna and invite the attention of my neighbors and the HOA.

You do what you want but just to be fully informed here's the link to the FCC rules regarding installation of TV and other consumer antennas:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...tellite-dishes

Chuck

Last edited by Calaveras; 07-26-2017 at 12:51 PM.
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post #10685 of 10706 Old 07-26-2017, 02:12 PM
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You do what you want but just to be fully informed here's the link to the FCC rules regarding installation of TV and other consumer antennas:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...tellite-dishes

Chuck
Chuck,

I understand fully what you are pointing out. However, as we drove through the neighborhoods looking for a home to buy I do not recall seeing one house with an external Yagi type antenna. There were some Directv antennas but none of the larger Yagi's. I don't think I have the guts to withstand the bad vibes that will emanate from my neighbors. I hope the attic has enough room in it for one. I will be crawling around up there pulling wires for my home theater speakers so I will find out.

Jack
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post #10686 of 10706 Old 07-27-2017, 05:17 PM
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Chuck,

I understand fully what you are pointing out. However, as we drove through the neighborhoods looking for a home to buy I do not recall seeing one house with an external Yagi type antenna. There were some Directv antennas but none of the larger Yagi's. I don't think I have the guts to withstand the bad vibes that will emanate from my neighbors. I hope the attic has enough room in it for one. I will be crawling around up there pulling wires for my home theater speakers so I will find out.
When I moved into my house and put an antenna on the roof, a couple of neighbors commented but it was along the lines "You can still get TV on that?" It seems many confused the digital transition with an end of OTA. They haven't put up antennas yet, but I offered to give them advice if they cut the cord!
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post #10687 of 10706 Old 07-27-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cbandscanner View Post
When I moved into my house and put an antenna on the roof, a couple of neighbors commented but it was along the lines "You can still get TV on that?" It seems many confused the digital transition with an end of OTA. They haven't put up antennas yet, but I offered to give them advice if they cut the cord!

Not surprised to hear this. With years of non-stop ads for cable and satellite TV and seldom a word about OTA, most people have grown up thinking those are your only choices for TV. And now we have internet streaming. You must pay. Haven't I heard millennials hate paying for TV? Someone needs to tell them they can get it for free.

Chuck
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post #10688 of 10706 Old 07-31-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cbandscanner View Post
When I moved into my house and put an antenna on the roof, a couple of neighbors commented but it was along the lines "You can still get TV on that?" It seems many confused the digital transition with an end of OTA. They haven't put up antennas yet, but I offered to give them advice if they cut the cord!
Over the air reception, in the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto television market has actually increased significantly in the past few years.
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post #10689 of 10706 Old 08-02-2017, 06:08 PM
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31.2 LAFF Channel

Should be on prior to the end of this week.

- Bob
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post #10690 of 10706 Old 08-04-2017, 01:12 PM
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Should be on prior to the end of this week.

- Bob
31.2 - LAFF - On the air.
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post #10691 of 10706 Old 08-05-2017, 08:59 AM
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I can sign up for Wave Cable or Directv in the Del Webb in Lincoln Hills. They are both about the same price. Wave uses a Tivo and I am negotiating with Diretcv for free 4K equipment. My question: Is there anyone here with experience with Wave and Directv? Is there a quality difference in their HD transmission. Usually it depends on how much bandwidth they want to dedicate to the channel. Any thoughts?

Jack
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I can sign up for Wave Cable or Directv in the Del Webb in Lincoln Hills. They are both about the same price. Wave uses a Tivo and I am negotiating with Diretcv for free 4K equipment. My question: Is there anyone here with experience with Wave and Directv? Is there a quality difference in their HD transmission. Usually it depends on how much bandwidth they want to dedicate to the channel. Any thoughts?
Direct tv will put a 2 foot "dish" antenna on your roof anywhere that is not blocked by trees and can see the sky. A local tv antenna would be the best picture quality.
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post #10693 of 10706 Old 08-06-2017, 07:10 AM
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31.2 - LAFF - On the air.
The audio and video were so out of sync this morning that words were coming out of the wrong person's mouth!

Chuck
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post #10694 of 10706 Old 08-06-2017, 09:42 AM
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I can sign up for Wave Cable or Directv in the Del Webb in Lincoln Hills. They are both about the same price. Wave uses a Tivo and I am negotiating with Diretcv for free 4K equipment. My question: Is there anyone here with experience with Wave and Directv? Is there a quality difference in their HD transmission. Usually it depends on how much bandwidth they want to dedicate to the channel. Any thoughts?
Wave is probably the best way to go. My stations feeds Wave directly with fiber. DirecTV picks us up off-air.
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Wave is probably the best way to go. My stations feeds Wave directly with fiber. DirecTV picks us up off-air.
Thanks for the info Bob. I was hoping to be able to pick up the local stations with an OTA antenna. What I am most interested in is whether or not there is any difference in the video and audio quality between the two offerings. Wave cable and Directv. They will both cost me about the same amount of money/month so quality of image is the most important question. Another alternative I may explore is Sony Vue, the streaming service. It's much cheaper and quality of picture is very good I believe.

But I'm most interested right now in the quality difference, if there is any, between Wave and Directv. I was hoping that there might be someone out there who has gone through this. I've looked for other forums for this question but unable to find one that fits the question. This OTA Sacramento thread is the closest I could find.

Jack
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
The audio and video were so out of sync this morning that words were coming out of the wrong person's mouth!

Chuck
Friday, when I left the office, lipsync was just fine. You might try changing channels and going back to see if the problem still exists. Common problem with off-air antennas, especially if the signal is fading or flaky. On the other hand, it could be on the origination end. I'll look into it.

Bob
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post #10697 of 10706 Old 08-06-2017, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for the info Bob. I was hoping to be able to pick up the local stations with an OTA antenna. What I am most interested in is whether or not there is any difference in the video and audio quality between the two offerings. Wave cable and Directv. They will both cost me about the same amount of money/month so quality of image is the most important question. Another alternative I may explore is Sony Vue, the streaming service. It's much cheaper and quality of picture is very good I believe.

But I'm most interested right now in the quality difference, if there is any, between Wave and Directv. I was hoping that there might be someone out there who has gone through this. I've looked for other forums for this question but unable to find one that fits the question. This OTA Sacramento thread is the closest I could find.
I believe all of the local stations feed Wave via the Comcast fiber backbone. Pretty hard to beat a fiber feed. I have the utmost respect for the local Comcast and Wave cable engineers. They really do care about quality.

I have DirecTV at my house. Reliability is fairly good although when they go down it usually affects all of the locals and is generally associated with some sort of fiber failure from their head-end. Some Sacramento stations feed DirecTV via fiber but I believe they rely on off-air pickup for most. Most of the cable companies have direct fiber feeds from the studios to their head-ends.

Regarding cable vs dish vs off-air, very few of the dot-two off air channels are on cable and none are on DirecTV. Not sure about Dish. Decades is on Comcast. On the other hand, there's plenty more to watch on cable as far as number of channels. You can be the judge on the content.

Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hess View Post
Friday, when I left the office, lipsync was just fine. You might try changing channels and going back to see if the problem still exists. Common problem with off-air antennas, especially if the signal is fading or flaky. On the other hand, it could be on the origination end. I'll look into it.

Bob

The video is ahead by about 1 second on 31.2. It is fine on 31.1. I tried the retuning as that has fixed some issues but not this one.

Chuck
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post #10699 of 10706 Old 08-06-2017, 11:15 PM
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31.2 - LAFF - On the air.
Whatever is happening with the new KMAX antenna that was applied for 7/7/2017? For the repack, KMAX, per FCC Form 399 7/10/2017, is shown staying with the same unreliable, overly-narrow, overly-high-gain KCRA/KQCA/KMAX antenna that remains completely unviewable here 58 miles away in Pollock Pines. If I want to view LAFF, KGO 7-3, 120 miles away, is my best shot and is viewable much of the time.
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post #10700 of 10706 Old 08-07-2017, 04:40 PM
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The audio sync looked perfect this afternoon on 31.2 and it has the correct aspect ratio without having set it unlike KGO 7.3 which defaults to "stretch-o vision."

Chuck
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I see that there's new Google Earth imagery dated 5/19/2017 that covers Walnut Grove. The levee break that flooded the KCRA/KMAX/KQCA tower is obvious. The island was still flooded. Has that levee break been repaired or is it still boat only access to the transmitter site?

Chuck
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A "Modification to Construction Permit" filed by KMAX showed up this morning at the FCC LMS.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...00022&goBack=N

It's for a side mounted antenna near 1800' on the KOVR/KXTV tower and 785KW ERP. I wasn't able to track down the elevation pattern but it looks to be a moderate gain antenna which is probably good for us in the foothills.

It's interesting that the FCC form automatically fills in the repack channel number (24 in this case) so they have to request the FCC change it to 21.

Hopefully this will be granted soon.

Chuck
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post #10703 of 10706 Old 08-10-2017, 02:40 PM
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I see that there's new Google Earth imagery dated 5/19/2017 that covers Walnut Grove. The levee break that flooded the KCRA/KMAX/KQCA tower is obvious. The island was still flooded. Has that levee break been repaired or is it still boat only access to the transmitter site?

Chuck
It is all dry now and capable of vehicle traffic.
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post #10704 of 10706 Old 08-10-2017, 08:39 PM
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A "Modification to Construction Permit" filed by KMAX showed up this morning at the FCC LMS.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...00022&goBack=N
The construction permit applies only to current KMAX pre-repack operation on channel 21. But Form 399 shows post-repack operation on channel 24 will be using the current overly-narrow beam KCRA/KQCA/KMAX antenna. Does this mean after the repack things will go right back to the same lousy reception problems?????
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post #10705 of 10706 Old 08-11-2017, 12:36 PM
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The construction permit applies only to current KMAX pre-repack operation on channel 21. But Form 399 shows post-repack operation on channel 24 will be using the current overly-narrow beam KCRA/KQCA/KMAX antenna. Does this mean after the repack things will go right back to the same lousy reception problems?????
http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ion_id=2006286
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post #10706 of 10706 Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
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I have just updated my TV station lists. Seeing I don't receive many of the Sacramento/Stockton stations, if you see any incorrect information, please let me know. Thanks!

http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

Larry

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.choisser.com/broadcast.html
Live reception scans from my HD Home Run receivers: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/
Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html
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