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post #5311 of 5659 Old 03-12-2012, 10:24 PM
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Looks like the Dish Network and WISCTV/CBS are in some kind of dispute. We might lose the channel if negotiations are not successful.

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post #5312 of 5659 Old 03-13-2012, 06:19 AM
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State Journal:

Quote:


WISC-TV Channel 3 is appealing to viewers to contact Dish Network and ask the satellite carrier to reach a new contract with the Madison TV station.

Channel 3's contract with Dish expires on Friday, and the two sides have not been able to agree on a new pact that would let Dish continue to carry Channel 3 programming.

"We're interested in settling this before the deadline," Channel 3 general manager Tom Bier said. He said the station completed agreements with about 20 other providers last December.

In the meantime, the station began running a crawl at the bottom of the television screen last Friday, alerting viewers that Dish could stop carrying its programs on Saturday. The warning is run once an hour or so, Bier said.
"It is disruptive; we understand and we apologize for that," he said. "We want to reach the Dish subscribers."

Bier said the company is asking for "a little more than two cents a day" per subscriber from Dish. "Local broadcasters get the most viewers. We feel there should be fair compensation in terms of what we offer," he said.

A spokesman for Dish Network called Bier's estimate of the cost "absurd" and likened it to "charging $12 for a gallon of milk and then saying it is only 'pennies more' per sip."

Morgan Murphy Media, Channel 3's parent company, wants "more than a 250 percent increase, which is unacceptable," amounting to "millions of dollars more" over the life of the agreement, Steve Caulk, of ProConnect Public Relations in Westminster, Colo., wrote in an email to the State Journal.

Bier said the negotiations also include Morgan Murphy's request that Dish carry TVW, its alternative, digital station, aired on some networks as Channel 14. "Obviously, we think it's valuable," he said.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/business...871e3ce6c.html

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post #5313 of 5659 Old 03-15-2012, 05:34 PM
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Thank goodness for my BUD. The new series Missing is something not to miss.

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post #5314 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Thank goodness for my BUD. The new series Missing is something not to miss.

Don't get too attached, ABC has been perennially unsuccessful in launching a new show in that slot. It won't be renewed.

And it's the Magic of March, March Madness is college. This is high school.

FYI: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/...Tournament.pdf and http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/...ys%20Bball.pdf

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post #5315 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

Don't get too attached, ABC has been perennially unsuccessful in launching a new show in that slot. It won't be renewed.

Missing is a short series that won't ever get made into a 22 episode length series. The star will not commit to a lengthy series.

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And it's the Magic of March, March Madness is college. This is high school.

Many consider it all part of March Madness. At least I do. College hoops pre-empts network programming at the network source, while the local HS stuff pre-empts network programming only locally. The rest of the nation gets to see the network programming.

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post #5316 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 09:48 AM
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Just looked at your PDFs. I forgot that Missing is getting a network repeat for the first two episodes on the following Wednesday, even though I have the ABC network grid printed out.

Not the case for episodes of Grey's Anatomy or Private Practice. I don't remember if WKOW is finally airing their delayed broadcast of the network shows in HD, or not. They have the technology, but I remember the delays not being in HD. I might check the delayed shows just to see. But, knowing me, I'll forget.

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post #5317 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Just looked at your PDFs. I forgot that Missing is getting a network repeat for the first two episodes on the following Wednesday, even though I have the ABC network grid printed out.

Not the case for episodes of Grey's Anatomy or Private Practice. I don't remember if WKOW is finally airing their delayed broadcast of the network shows in HD, or not. They have the technology, but I remember the delays not being in HD. I might check the delayed shows just to see. But, knowing me, I'll forget.

Yes, WKOW did air an HD version of Missing later at night. The guide also listed the other two shows.

Sadly, the later broadcast was completely missing the center channel audio on the program and all 5.1 commercials. I guess it was a very good 5.1 mix since absolutely none of the dialogue was present in the other channels!

Thank goodness for the online version at IMDb and the Wed night ABC re-broadcast.

Next week's episode is also listed as being shown later at night on Thursday and ABC is also re-broadcasting it the following Wednesday.

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post #5318 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LoopinFool View Post

Yes, WKOW did air an HD version of Missing later at night. The guide also listed the other two shows.

At least they got that fixed/working.

Quote:


Sadly, the later broadcast was completely missing the center channel audio on the program and all 5.1 commercials. I guess it was a very good 5.1 mix since absolutely none of the dialogue was present in the other channels!

ABC now sends out separate stereo streams for the audio. The layout is:

1) Left and Right Dolby Surround mixdown
2) Left and Right channels
3) Center and Lfe (.1) channels
4) Left and Right surround channels

That means that someone screwed up and failed to capture the complete mux, leaving out the 2nd audio stream. Either that, our the playout routing of the audio streams was misconfigured. Obviously whoever was in master control would have heard the audio problem.

Quote:


Next week's episode is also listed as being shown later at night on Thursday and ABC is also re-broadcasting it the following Wednesday.

Yep, as indicated in my posting, Missing is repeated on Wed for the first two episodes. I wonder if ABC did that on purpose, as WI is not the only state that has pre-emptions for HS basketball.

Revenge returns to the schedule on Apr 4th with a repeat. No new episodes until Apr 18th.

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post #5319 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Just looked at your PDFs.

They're WKOW's, not mine. Also notice the only programs listed as being in HD.

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post #5320 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 03:53 PM
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Sorry, meant the PDFs that you posted, not that they were actually created by you.

And yes, I noticed that they did not mark network programming as being in HD. Kinda dumb.

Oh, and as for the screwup, the station wouldn't be capturing the complete mux, as it has three programs; east, west and mtn. Their IRD would be tuned to the east program and would only get that output, more-than-likely via ASI, which would then be converted to HD-SDI for the station's plant. Seems really weird that the audio would get messed up, as the same setup is used to put the programming on air. Obviously something to do with the server storage input and output path being different than the live-to-air path.

Before anyone says anything, yes the ASI outpu can contain the complete mux and probably does, but their ASI to HD-SDI conversion would be set for the east programming portion of the mux.

I have a hardware receiver that puts out the complete mux via ASI and another IRD that only puts out the selected program via ASI.

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post #5321 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

And yes, I noticed that they did not mark network programming as being in HD. Kinda dumb.

I meant the other end of the spectrum. They were emphasizing their news as being in HD, which should be somewhat good for business. Everyone should know all of ABC's programming is in HD now, morning, noon and night.

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post #5322 of 5659 Old 03-16-2012, 04:12 PM
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There is that. But still dumb to me not to mark all of the HD stuff as being in HD. Don't assume anything.

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post #5323 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

State Journal:



http://host.madison.com/wsj/business...871e3ce6c.html

I see WISC is off Dish, there is an announcement there now where the station was. I get WISC OTA.

I mostly blame the owners of WISC. It appears Dish offered them the same deal they pay the other locals and what other carriers pay. WISC wanted more (the announcement said 200% more) and for them to carry TVW. Dish carries absolutely no subchannels in this market and carries WPT and UPN 57 in SD.

Of course, the parties will blame each other and the Dish customer gets the shaft. Hopefully, a lot of the Dish subscribers can setup and use an antenna in this area. There is a way to install an OTA module with an antenna on a Dish receiver. It's not expensive and you can then tune in the subchannels.
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post #5324 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 02:50 PM
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You can view each side's latest arguments here and make your own judgement if you care.

http://www.channel3000.com/technolog...19/detail.html

http://www.dishnetwork.com/campaigns...-2012/Morgan2/

After reading all I could about this, and based on how I understand a national service like Dish works, I still tend to side with Dish. Dish can't afford to set precedents for locals that can have such a huge impact nationally. They have to offer market rates for their market, which isn't the same as local cable and Uverse. Those services have localized unique infastructure. Dish is national on a few birds. Sure, I'd like to see them carry all the subchannels. But if you look at that from a national perspective, it would cost a lot for them to do that everywhere. And in my opinion, Dish has the most value for the money compared to Direct TV, Charter or Uverse. I don't want to see my rates go up even more because of a precedent set by this agreement.

Yeah, sure I'd like to see a local business like WISC thrive, but not at the potential cost of seeing my Dish rates go up.

Both sides statements aren't without some hype.

Dish says they've offered fair market, but I understand they offered what WISC is paid by Direct TV under a 2 year old deal. I have to agree that under a new deal WISC should get some nominal increase over what Direct TV pays.

It's likely true that WISC is asking for just over 2 cents, but that's per subscriber per day. That likely does add up to millions for the thousands of subscribers in this market over an agreement that lasts for years.

What Dish pays for national cable networks should in no way be the same as what they pay for a local. Sure, a local is watched more locally, but not nationally. Apples and oranges.

My understanding is locals have been included at no charge in most Dish packages for quite some time.
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post #5325 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 03:18 PM
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Interesting. CBS O&O stations get $.75 per subscriber. Just over "2 cents per day" puts them exactly in parity with other CBS affiliates...I'm guessing they want $.75/month per subscriber.

My take on this is simple: WISC and Dish have a lot to lose if both stay off. Dish will lose to DirecTV, and to Charter. WISC will get a bad rap as being greedy. Personally, though, I side with this: get an antenna if you can get the locals. For those folks who are able (which is most of them), Dish makes an antenna jack available to get those channels. If you are able to get ANY Madison stations, whether you have cable or satellite, it behooves you, if nothing else as a backup when those services go out (and they do), to get antenna either on the roof, nominally, or in an attic. Not wanting one on the roof because it's of an "ugly eyesore" mentality just doesn't fly with me. Put it in the attic, or get it outside. When you need it the most, your provider will let you down at times. Simple as that.

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post #5326 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

Interesting. CBS O&O stations get $.75 per subscriber. Just over "2 cents per day" puts them exactly in parity with other CBS affiliates...I'm guessing they want $.75/month per subscriber.

My take on this is simple: WISC and Dish have a lot to lose if both stay off. Dish will lose to DirecTV, and to Charter. WISC will get a bad rap as being greedy. Personally, though, I side with this: get an antenna if you can get the locals. For those folks who are able (which is most of them), Dish makes an antenna jack available to get those channels. If you are able to get ANY Madison stations, whether you have cable or satellite, it behooves you, if nothing else as a backup when those services go out (and they do), to get antenna either on the roof, nominally, or in an attic. Not wanting one on the roof because it's of an "ugly eyesore" mentality just doesn't fly with me. Put it in the attic, or get it outside. When you need it the most, your provider will let you down at times. Simple as that.

I have a feeling that the demand to carry the TVW subchannel may be a bigger issue than the cost per subscriber per day. Dish doesn't want to set the precedent of carrying subchannels.

Yeah, I mentioned the Dish receiver OTA module. It's a card module that slides in, not a jack. Maybe some receivers are different. They used to cost $30 last I checked. There is no rental fee for them.

http://www.mydish.com/support/setup-ota-module
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post #5327 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 03:44 PM
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I most definitely agree with sebenste. With all of the stations in town now bing UHF, you don't need the VHF portion on an antenna, making it a lot smaller and easier to mount on the roof.

If you are on the good side of an apartment, you can mount it on your balcony railing, or even stick a post in the ground and mount it outside your ground level sliding door.

Something like this is all you need:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3766859

And remember, there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna. There are other UHF antennas if you live farther away from the towers.

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post #5328 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whosbest1 View Post

I have a feeling that the demand to carry the TVW subchannel may be a bigger issue than the cost per subscriber per day. Dish doesn't want to set the precedent of carrying subchannels.

It was a local cable/satellite channel first, then when digital 3.1 went live in 2000, they stuck it on 3.2.

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post #5329 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 03:58 PM
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I most definitely agree with sebenste. With all of the stations in town now bing UHF, you don't need the VHF portion on an antenna, making it a lot smaller and easier to mount on the roof.

If you are on the good side of an apartment, you can mount it on your balcony railing, or even stick a post in the ground and mount it outside your ground level sliding door.

Something like this is all you need:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3766859

And remember, there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna. There are other UHF antennas if you live farther away from the towers.

Rat Shack didn't use to sell that model. It might help with my WPT reception issues, so I may try it now that the weather is nice enough for me to climb on the roof again.

In many places in the area if you're close enough to the candelabra even a simple indoor UHF bowtie will work.
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post #5330 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

It was a local cable/satellite channel first, then when digital 3.1 went live in 2000, they stuck it on 3.2.

That was in the day before digital only. Now that it is digital only, to put up one station's subchannel(s) would result in others stations demanding that their subchannels be added as well. The pizza pan dish companies do not have the space to do that, so they draw the line.

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post #5331 of 5659 Old 03-17-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whosbest1 View Post

Rat Shack didn't use to sell that model. It might help with my WPT reception issues, so I may try it now that the weather is nice enough for me to climb on the roof again.

If you look at the other outdoor antennas, a model that looks like an old sword (point w/ a reflector) might be better in that it would be more directional, which would allow you to point it at an angle to help eliminate reflection issues (maybe).

It is weird that you can get RF26 easily but have issues with RF20. They aren't that far apart in frequency, yet, you do.

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post #5332 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

If you look at the other outdoor antennas, a model that looks like an old sword (point w/ a reflector) might be better in that it would be more directional, which would allow you to point it at an angle to help eliminate reflection issues (maybe).

It is weird that you can get RF26 easily but have issues with RF20. They aren't that far apart in frequency, yet, you do.

But the power difference is big. KOW is higher up the tower, too, IIRC. Those two make all the diference. Peple 35 miles south of Rockford can get KOW
day and night....but not WHA.

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post #5333 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 08:27 AM
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The blackout didn't last long. I guess after playing some chicken they both realized what this would really mean to both sides and hammered something out. No details on what the deal is, but I'd bet TVW isn't going to be on Dish.

http://www.channel3000.com/technolog...19/detail.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

But the power difference is big. KOW is higher up the tower, too, IIRC. Those two make all the diference. Peple 35 miles south of Rockford can get KOW
day and night....but not WHA.

They're both all the way up on top.

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post #5335 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whosbest1 View Post

The blackout didn't last long. I guess after playing some chicken they both realized what this would really mean to both sides and hammered something out. No details on what the deal is, but I'd bet TVW isn't going to be on Dish.

http://www.channel3000.com/technolog...19/detail.html

State Journal:

Quote:


The DISH Network and WISC-TV (Ch. 3) reached an agreement Saturday that will allow Madison-area subscribers to the satellite network to receive the CBS affiliate.
Tom Bier, vice president and general manager of WISC-TV, said he couldn't disclose the terms of the agreement.
DISH stopped carrying WISC-TV at 12:59 a.m. Saturday because the satellite network and Morgan Murphy Media, the Madison-based parent company of the CBS affiliate, couldn't agree on the rate DISH should pay to Morgan Murphy Media to carry WISC-TV.
Bier said he expected DISH to be carrying WISC-TV as early as late Saturday evening.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...871e3ce6c.html

I wonder if WISC was ready to ask NCAA/CBS/Turner to put Thursday's Badgers game on CBS as leverage. CBS had a stake in the impasse as well and DISH viewers still got to see yesterday's Badgers game, as TNT was still on DISH.

I'm still hoping it's on WISC anyway. That's 5 straight Badgers NCAA tournament games I've had to watch on my computer, going back to last year. WISC must be a little ticked off too. All 3 of the Badgers games were in primetime last year, and WISC didn't get to air a single one.

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post #5336 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 View Post

They're both all the way up on top.

OK, good to know. But the power is 150 kw-ish to 900 kw...makes a big difference.

Gilbert
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post #5337 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

OK, good to know. But the power is 150 kw-ish to 900 kw...makes a big difference.

Without a doubt.

Last I heard, WHA is 140kw, and WKOW is 800kw.

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post #5338 of 5659 Old 03-18-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by whosbest1 View Post

And in my opinion, Dish has the most value for the money compared to Direct TV, Charter or Uverse.

I respect that opinion.

For the Madison market, however, note that DirecTV does carry TVW and also carries WHA in HD. Both providers do allow you to hook up an OTA antenna to your receiver/DVR and get the full slate of local HD and subchannels.

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post #5339 of 5659 Old 03-19-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by LoopinFool View Post

I respect that opinion.

For the Madison market, however, note that DirecTV does carry TVW and also carries WHA in HD. Both providers do allow you to hook up an OTA antenna to your receiver/DVR and get the full slate of local HD and subchannels.

- LoopinFool

The collection point in Madison for DirecTV is at WISC... I wonder if that had something to do with their retransmission negotiations whenever that was... well, I think DirecTV has more bandwidth for locals than DISH too..
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post #5340 of 5659 Old 03-19-2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mattymo View Post

The collection point in Madison for DirecTV is at WISC... I wonder if that had something to do with their retransmission negotiations whenever that was... well, I think DirecTV has more bandwidth for locals than DISH too..

DISH is at WKOW, right?

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