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Madison, WI - HDTV

732K views 6K replies 397 participants last post by  avidandrew 
#1 ·
Hey central Wisconsinites. I think we need a thread to discuss HD issues for the Madison, Janesville, Wisconsin Dells areas.


I'm in Sun Prairie, about 20 miles from the Madison towers. OTA, I'm receiving HD ABC, CBS, NBC & PBS and non-hd digital Fox and UPN. Does anyone know if the WB affiliate (out of Janesville I believe) is broadcasting a digital transmission?


Also, FYI, I received an e-mail response from an engineer who works for our Fox Madison affiliate. He states they plan to have their equipment ready to pass along the HD Fox feed scheduled to begin late summer/early fall.


Hope there are a lot of contributors to this thread.


-Chad G
 
#4,711 ·
Hey KOW, that was easily the worst sports broadcast I've ever seen in my life. What genius over there thought it was a good idea to put NASCAR on a 2 megabit SD subchannel? Every single shot on that program was a festival of pixelization.

Since the race ended just after the game started, you should've started the game on 27.2 and then added it to 27.1 when the race ended. It was just a preseason game, after all. How many NASCAR fans in Madison were trying for 12 or 17, just so they could watch the race?
 
#4,712 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA /forum/post/19085389


Hey KOW, that was easily the worst sports broadcast I've ever seen in my life.

I have no idea if anyone from the staff at WKOW even monitor this forum.


You need to call the studio and ask to speak to the program director and voice your complaint directly to her.
 
#4,713 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA /forum/post/19085389


Hey KOW, that was easily the worst sports broadcast I've ever seen in my life. What genius over there thought it was a good idea to put NASCAR on a 2 megabit SD subchannel? Every single shot on that program was a festival of pixelization.

Since the race ended just after the game started, you should've started the game on 27.2 and then added it to 27.1 when the race ended. It was just a preseason game, after all. How many NASCAR fans in Madison were trying for 12 or 17, just so they could watch the race?

Oddly, everyone I talked to thought it was a great picture, for SD. But these were all Charter customers, don't know what bearing that has. If anyone from Charter monitors, you had a competitive advantage over ATT and SAT with this. You should use it!
 
#4,714 ·
Charter had a list of its current channels in a recent bill and I discovered that I should be able to get the TV Guide channel on Channel 89 with a QAM tuner. I was happy to see that because I just read that the TV Guide channel will be airing the "Weeds" series in a couple of weeks, and I would like to check that out. However, when I go to 89 it says channel encrypted. I then started just flipping through the channels my QAM picks up and found the TV Guide channel on 83-7. At least I think that it is the TV Guide channel because it had the icon in the bottom corner. This got me thinking, what are all the QAM channels that are available, and what are the real numbers? Tried searching for it on Google and on the Charter website and found nothing current. Anyone know this info, or where I can find it? Thanks!
 
#4,715 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wimom /forum/post/19091610


This got me thinking, what are all the QAM channels that are available, and what are the real numbers? Tried searching for it on Google and on the Charter website and found nothing current. Anyone know this info, or where I can find it? Thanks!

Silcon Dust has a QAM channel lineup here:
http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/


Now that I look at it, though, it looks a little out of date (e.g., it has WHA (Wisconsin Public Television) at 15-1 ... Charter corrected that flub a while back and WMTV-DT has been at 15-1 and 15-2 for some time now).


Still, it's pretty much all there is as far as listings. Charter, in their infinite wisdom, do not post a listing of clear QAM channels. They probably figure if they make it a big enough pain in the ass to use clear QAM that people will just give up and rent a cable box.


Your best bet is to just have the TV do a full scan and spot check the QAM channels yourself. And repeat a few times a year, as Charter randomly moves stuff around.
 
#4,716 ·
Now that I look at it, though, it looks a little out of date (e.g., it has WHA (Wisconsin Public Television) at 15-1 ... Charter corrected that flub a while back and WMTV-DT has been at 15-1 and 15-2 for some time now).


Actually the Silicondust cable lineup is correct. It is updated on a very regular basis. WHA-DT really IS at 15.1 in clear QAM. When you look at the Silicondust lineup it shows WHADT at 15-1 (clear QAM) with a virtual channel number of 21.1 and WMTV-DT at channel 104-1 with a virtual channel number of 615.1.


We all got used to virtual channel numbers years ago with OTA reception. Most modern

TVs tune WISC-DT OTA at 3.1 even we all know it is really broadcast at 50.1. The clear QAM cable channels work the same way for the local channels. Once the clear QAM tuner has scanned the available cable channels, it then uses the VIRTUAL channel numbers for the Madison stations to make it easy for us users. To tune in WISC-

DT, would you rather remember 106-6 or 3.1? The tuner does the necessary channel number translation. So your TV's tuner finds WHA-DT at 21.1 and WMTV-DT at 15.1, even though they really are actually broadcast at 15.1 and 104.1 respectively.
 
#4,717 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhayward12 /forum/post/19095016


Actually the Silicondust cable lineup is correct. It is updated on a very regular basis. WHA-DT really IS at 15.1 in clear QAM. When you look at the Silicondust lineup it shows WHADT at 15-1 (clear QAM) with a virtual channel number of 21.1 and WMTV-DT at channel 104-1 with a virtual channel number of 615.1.

Ah, my mistake. I missed the virtual channel column. Some of those are still off as far as the virtual channel # ... WBUW maps to 57.1, not 57, and most of the local SD feeds are off (e.g., 85-9 WMTV SD feed maps to 5, not 15), but most folks won't care about those, I guess.


Anyway, on a mostly unrelated note, get ready for a massive reduction in PQ on WMSN-DT ... in addition to the already announced plans to add "The Cool TV" subchannel, Sinclair will now also carry "The Country Network" on a second subchannel:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...101317669.html


So ... is there a way for local stations to feed the pre-ATSC encoder signal (before it is compressed to fit within 19 Mbit/s - ~3.8 Mbit/s per 480i subchannel) to Charter and/or Uverse so that we'd get a better picture than what we can get from the OTA signal? Are any local channels already doing this?
 
#4,718 ·
Thanks for the silicondust link! Just what I was looking for. Silicondust did come up on my Google search, but it just looked like a site that was selling stuff and I missed the list. I'm printing it out and will compare with what comes up on my TV. I see it does have the TV Guide channel on 83-8, while I found it on 83-7, so it may be off a little, but it's a great place to start!
 
#4,719 ·
So... I'm finally in the process of ridding my life of the wretched affliction known as Charter Cable. Bought a new TiVo and this antenna: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/RCA+-+Am...nna&cp=2&lp=12


Works great... except... NO FOX! At all. I mean not even a blip. Took it back to the store and they said, "I figured that would be the case." So apparently, FOX problems are not a rarity at all.


Anyhoo... exchanged it for this one: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Antennas...nna&cp=1&lp=14


Hooked it up indoors just to test it out and I got FOX... but pixelated/distorted now and then. The closer I moved it to the ceiling and towards the patio door, the better the signal. So once it's attached to my roof it should work fine.


Thanks FOX for making me spend an extra $60 just to get your lackluster channel full of great shows you'll cancel in their prime.
 
#4,720 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBurgundy /forum/post/19095255


Anyway, on a mostly unrelated note, get ready for a massive reduction in PQ on WMSN-DT ... in addition to the already announced plans to add "The Cool TV" subchannel, Sinclair will now also carry "The Country Network" on a second subchannel:


So ... is there a way for local stations to feed the pre-ATSC encoder signal (before it is compressed to fit within 19 Mbit/s - ~3.8 Mbit/s per 480i subchannel) to Charter and/or Uverse so that we'd get a better picture than what we can get from the OTA signal? Are any local channels already doing this?

I don't know how Sinclair is going to do that at stations that are Fox affiliates, as they have zero control of the incoming feed from Fox.


Fox affiliates get a preconfigured MPEG-2 feed that peaks at 15 Mbps, leaving the rest for any and all subchannels. I'm not sure the splicer setup will even allow two subchannels. The stations do not have access to the network feed.


So no, Fox47 can't provide what they get from the bird because they do not have access (legally) to it.
 
#4,721 ·
They'll just do what other Fox stations with additional subs do, cram the two subs into the 3.5-ish Mbps that the Fox splicer leaves empty. That's what WOLF in Scranton does, and what WRAZ in Raleigh did before dropping their Weather sub.


- Trip
 
#4,722 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA /forum/post/19096324


They'll just do what other Fox stations with additional subs do, cram the two subs into the 3.5-ish Mbps that the Fox splicer leaves empty. That's what WOLF in Scranton does, and what WRAZ in Raleigh did before dropping their Weather sub.

While the splicer system is disliked by a lot of station engineers, it does keep those stations from eating away at the HD bitrate to add more subchannels.
 
#4,724 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19095655


I don't know how Sinclair is going to do that at stations that are Fox affiliates, as they have zero control of the incoming feed from Fox.


Fox affiliates get a preconfigured MPEG-2 feed that peaks at 15 Mbps, leaving the rest for any and all subchannels. I'm not sure the splicer setup will even allow two subchannels. The stations do not have access to the network feed.


So no, Fox47 can't provide what they get from the bird because they do not have access (legally) to it.

Sweet, though, that this will not degrade the PQ on Fox 47 from where it is now (it's mostly looked OK to me, except for the occasional macroblocking during sports, like football).


I still think it'd be cool if the local stations had a way to feed a better signal to cable/sat/Uverse than what goes out OTA, given that we're stuck with the limitations of ATSC ... would've been nice for ATSC to have MPEG4 or H264 or have more bandwidth, or both, but that ship has long since sailed.
 
#4,725 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattymo /forum/post/19098852


On a conference call about Splicer v 2.0, a lot of questions came up from some stations having access to the raw feed.... all met with a "no"

Gee, what a surprise there ... not!


There IS a way to get at the raw feeds... but to do so would put said station into a lot of hot water when Fox found out.
 
#4,726 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBurgundy /forum/post/19099294


I still think it'd be cool if the local stations had a way to feed a better signal to cable/sat/Uverse than what goes out OTA, given that we're stuck with the limitations of ATSC ... would've been nice for ATSC to have MPEG4 or H264 or have more bandwidth, or both, but that ship has long since sailed.

Except for the Fox network feed, all of the other networks have high bitrates: ABC=H.264, CBS=MPEG-2 4:2:2, CW=MPEG-2, NBC=H.264


The MPEG-2 bitrates are in the 30-35 Mbps range and the H.264 bitrates are in the 20-23 Mbps range.


Ya, it really sucks that the OTA transmission gets reduced to 15 Mbps, or worse.
 
#4,727 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBurgundy /forum/post/19099294


would've been nice for ATSC to have MPEG4 or H264 or have more bandwidth, or both, but that ship has long since sailed.

Keep in mind, even if the OTA channel width were to be increased to 9, or 12 MHz, and/or the codec changed to H.264, you can bet that the idiots that control the stations will still eat up the available bandwidth with so many sub-channels that the main HD stream would still end up being crippled.


There would have to be a law/rule that required the main stream to have no worse than a certain bitrate.


Other than that, you are right, that ship has sailed in this country.
 
#4,729 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Smurf /forum/post/19095359


So... I'm finally in the process of ridding my life of the wretched affliction known as Charter Cable. Bought a new TiVo and this antenna: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/RCA+-+Am...nna&cp=2&lp=12


Works great... except... NO FOX! At all. I mean not even a blip. Took it back to the store and they said, "I figured that would be the case." So apparently, FOX problems are not a rarity at all.


Anyhoo... exchanged it for this one: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Antennas...nna&cp=1&lp=14


Hooked it up indoors just to test it out and I got FOX... but pixelated/distorted now and then. The closer I moved it to the ceiling and towards the patio door, the better the signal. So once it's attached to my roof it should work fine.


Thanks FOX for making me spend an extra $60 just to get your lackluster channel full of great shows you'll cancel in their prime.

LOL and they are moving from VHF 11 to UHF 49.
 
#4,731 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren /forum/post/19101987


I did a QAM autoprogram on a friends Samsung HD in McFarland and it didn't pick up WISC-DT nor WKOW-DT. It found WHA fine and some SD digital channels like CSPAN-3,


Weird, his signal is just fine.

Is he paying for cable TV? If he has internet service through Charter but not cable TV, they may have put a trap on his line, which could explain the missing channels.
 
#4,733 ·
Not sure on the upgrade timing, matt seems to have answered your question already that it would be sometime this fall: ( see here )


but you don't even need to wait...if you get an antenna like this: http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1250-Am.../dp/B000063SNE that has both VHS & UHF antennas, you should be able to get it. I live in Cottage Grove & have this exact antenna (on my second floor), and it works great.


I like this model because you can tune the amount of amplification (or turn it off entirely) for both bands independently. Not sure if you can find it locally but I got mine about 6 years at walmart.


One thing to think about is that you can use existing COAX wiring in your house to put the antenna out to all of the coax outlets in your house. Essentially you are creating a 'closed loop' in your house. I can explain this in more detail, but the important part is to unplug any existing charter coax from the loop you put the antenna on.
 
#4,734 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren /forum/post/19102003


Great, more ****** subchannels coming soon. **** this ****ing bull ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you read all of the postings? The added subchannels on Fox47 will not affect the bitrate of the main HD stream.
 
#4,735 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterno3 /forum/post/19104439


Not sure on the upgrade timing, matt seems to have answered your question already that it would be sometime this fall: ( see here )

Yup... wheels in motion! Hopefully by November.


and


our new encoders went online today.


And yes, what was mentioned before, what you see in FOX HD now will be what you see after the music channels start up... probably not great for the PQ of the music channels, but the main channel will be nice.... and related to the new encoders, they'll be set up for stat-muxing too. if you don't know what that is, mrvideo will tell you!
 
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