Orlando, FL - OTA - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Orlando, FL - OTA
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 04:42 PM 12-22-2004
This just in from Joe Addalia.

WKCF-DT has migrated to the new PIDs. We had a problem with our multiplexer so we had to drop the guide for the time being. We'll have it restored in January.

rich21's Avatar rich21 08:31 PM 12-22-2004
As for the WKMG-DT test tonight
I saw a freeze of the picture/audio at 10:13 for a second or two
I heard very short audio drop-out at 10:25.
saltrek's Avatar saltrek 09:02 PM 12-22-2004
I've got the Channel Master Stealthtenna up along with the 3038 pre-amp and a Channel Master quad di-plexer. I am in Merritt Island, about 30 miles from the digital antennas.

All digital channels are coming in at 85-90.

Analog reception has also improved greatly from the indoor antennas I was using. Only ch.6 is not watchable. Could probably get it to come in, but don't want to mess with it since all the digitals are coming in. Even have a decent picture on ch.2 which I did not expect.
jason_j_a's Avatar jason_j_a 11:59 PM 12-22-2004
Originally posted by Barry928
WRBW and WOFL have chosen to not communicate with viewers via email. My opinion is this FCC R&O will force WRBW to comply.


Can you get more info on the new FCC requirements? Assuming WRBW doesn't fix their mapping problem in time, I'd love to be able to call them back and read that mandate to them
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 07:49 AM 12-23-2004

The FCC R&O is 04-192. I have attached the brief press release that mentions the PSIP requirement in the third bullet. If you want the complete text go to the FCC website and search for document 04-192A1. I had trouble downloading the full text. My computer is reporting a corrupt file for the pdf and word versions. The txt version did open but is almost unreadable with any formatting. If you get a clean version of the pdf please post it here.


doc-250542a1.pdf 118.771484375k . file
Attached: doc-250542a1.pdf (118.8 KB) 
Rojma's Avatar Rojma 07:51 AM 12-23-2004
Looks likes the updates are causing PBS WBCC 68 to finally start mapping correctly, at least partially. I did a rescan last night and 68-3 and 68-4 are showing up in the proper place (instead of at 30-3 and 30-4). However, 68-1 and 68-2 are still not showing up in the correct place. They are still at 30-1 and 30-2. Stranger yet, even though the mapping is working correctly on 68-3 and 68-4, 30-3 and 30-4 are still showing up on my guide on a HD DirecTivo. Could it be because I had them there before on my Channels I Receive/Favorite lists? Maybe I'll just rebuild the whole local channel list tonight. Here's hoping that UPN WRBW 65 is next....
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 05:42 PM 12-26-2004

Originally posted by rich21
As for the WKMG-DT test tonight
I saw a freeze of the picture/audio at 10:13 for a second or two
I heard very short audio drop-out at 10:25.

Thanks to everyone who helped monitor WKMG-DT off air for the BHN glitch survey. We are doing another survey on HBO-HD Wednesday Dec. 29th at 8pm. We need a couple Satellite viewers to carefully watch and log all the glitches during the 1 hour episode of "The Sopranos". Your log posted in the BHN thread will give us a way to compare glitches between the BHN and Satellite HBO-HD feeds.

Also, I heard back from the chief engineer Bill Schwartz at WCEU-DT who reports the status of the PID change over as

It will be after Jan 3, 2004 since we need to coordinate with cable companies, satellite uplinks and viewers like yourself. Home receivers should automatically find all streams, at worst a new scan might be required on some older ones.

FL Surfer's Avatar FL Surfer 11:26 AM 01-01-2005
I called and they said they would ask the engineering dept. to turn on the Citris Bowl game. Iowa VS LSU should be in HD.
FL Surfer's Avatar FL Surfer 12:43 PM 01-01-2005
The game looks great,I'm glad they only took 15 min after the call to flip the switch.Much better reaction then other places around the country.
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 01:05 PM 01-01-2005
It just proves they do not keep track of HD programming or monitor the HD feed.
bgall's Avatar bgall 01:44 PM 01-01-2005
yup, very sad that the people in the control room aren't even watching the HD. If I was in there I'd want to see it in HD.
Eric Busch's Avatar Eric Busch 04:10 PM 01-01-2005

Originally posted by Barry928
It just proves they do not keep track of HD programming or monitor the HD feed.

Along those same lines, does anyone know if WOFL is ever going to fix their PSIP clock? It's getting pretty annoying to have my TV reset 13 minutes slow everytime I tune to 35.1. Will the recent FCC R&O take care of this situation?
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 06:54 PM 01-01-2005
I don't think the R&O covers accurate time but I did find the network splicer manual FOX gives to the stations. In it they specify the exact time for keying logos and other stuff.

The pdf is too large to post here. (2.4MB) If you want to read it send me a PM with your email.

Operational Timeline
The sample timeline gives a visual interpretation of a typical Fox primetime feed.
It is not strictly accurate to playlist specifications but is appropriate for explaining
how the operations of the splicer should occur.

Breakdown is by time, operation and function.
7:45:00 1st Wake Up Network_Feed_Active
7:46:00 Logo Selected logo_keyer_1 Assign=select logo
7:59:00 Black & Silence
8:00:00 Network Programming GPI 01=Splice to Network
8:00:30 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:04:05 Logo Off logo_keyer_1_off=turn off logo
8:04:06 Network Commercial
8:06:06 Network Programming
8:06:07 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:17:59 Logo Off logo_disable_now=turn logo off
8:18:00 Network Commercial
8:20:00 Network Programming
8:20:01 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:28:29 Local Avail On local_avail_enab=indicate local avail
8:28:34 Logo Off logo_disable_now=turn logo off
8:28:35 Local Commercial GPI 02=Splice to Local
8:29:55 Local Avail Off local_avail_disable=end local avail
8:30:00 Network Programming GPI 01=Splice to Network
8:30:01 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:40:48 Logo Off logo_keyer_1_off=turn off logo
8:40:49 Network Commercial
8:42:49 Network programming
8:42:50 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:52:06 Logo Off logo_keyer_1_off=turn off logo
8:52:07 Network Commercial
8:54:07 Network Programming
8:54:08 Logo On logo_keyer_1_on=turn on logo
8:57:33 Logo Off logo_resets_exit=remove logo from keyer
8:57:35 Local Commercial GPI 02=Splice to Local / Network Inactive
8:57:36 End of Net Programs Network Feed OFF
Eric Busch's Avatar Eric Busch 08:16 PM 01-01-2005
After a little research...

According to the ATSC Standard A/65 for PSIP, the System Time Table (STT) is to be taken from the current GPS time and that:

The count of GPS seconds and leap second count shall be accurate and correct to within plus or minus one second...

Since the recent R&O adopts standard A/65 in its entirety, not only do all mandatory tables and descriptors need to be present in the transport, these tables need to be filled with the correct information. From this one could reasonably assume that an incorrect STT would not be in compliance with the R&O. I guess we'll find out Feb 1st...
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 08:33 PM 01-01-2005

Thanks for digging deep in the R&O. I would be interested in what exactly the FCC requires in the new digital standards. Hopefully WOFL and WRBW have changed their ways over the years. The problems posted in this forum are very reasonable requests.
jason_j_a's Avatar jason_j_a 09:49 AM 01-05-2005
I'm kind of confused. I was expecting that I would have to re-scran the OTA channels on my HD-Tivo when I got back from vacation due to these "PSIP" changes. I didn't do anything but everything still seems to work as normal. So what exactly happened and how does it affect OTA users?
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 11:53 AM 01-05-2005
The newer generation receivers will most likely not need a rescan. There is no way to tell who needs to scan and who does not so a blanket statement is posted for people to expect a possible problem.
Stoodo's Avatar Stoodo 12:01 PM 01-05-2005
Sorry: Somewhat OT:

Anybody here in the Central Florida Area know about FTA DVB Satellite setups?

Please send me a PM. Thanks!
Eric Busch's Avatar Eric Busch 07:19 PM 01-05-2005
I'm not sure when exactly it happened, but it seems that WOFL has now fixed their PSIP clock.
Gator5000e's Avatar Gator5000e 02:36 PM 01-08-2005
Seattle/Rams game - No HD from WFTV??
rolltide1017's Avatar rolltide1017 06:46 PM 01-09-2005
What is going on with WMFE. I get no picture or sound on 24-1 but I do on 24-2. I've rescanned a couple of times and have a strong signal for the channel but just no picture or sound (just a gray screen). Anyone know what is going on. I love watching this channel's HD programing.
Doctor52's Avatar Doctor52 07:48 AM 01-10-2005

Originally posted by rolltide1017
What is going on with WMFE. I get no picture or sound on 24-1 but I do on 24-2. I've rescanned a couple of times and have a strong signal for the channel but just no picture or sound (just a gray screen). Anyone know what is going on. I love watching this channel's HD programing.

I wonder if their PSIP changes when they broadcast HD programs. I seem to have the same problem, but it only happens on the weekends. I get 24.1 during the week when they show standard def shows.
mdh43's Avatar mdh43 09:51 AM 01-10-2005
I had same problem here in Winter Haven on Sunday, strong signal on 24.1 but no picture. Manually went to 23.2 and got there HD feed. Today Monday I can only get one digital picture on all of Wmfe feeds, FKN. Fortunatly here in WH I can get PBS from Tampa WEDU, comes in good.
crbunz's Avatar crbunz 08:04 AM 01-16-2005
Hi all....I'm new HD....Just got my hdtivo this weekend...My ? is about upn 65....It does not come in where D* says it is (65-1) it is on channel (41-1) and I dont get any channel data about that channel...It just says regular schedule so I can not setup any shows on it....Is this normal or is there something wrong with my hdtivo?
james32746's Avatar james32746 08:49 AM 01-16-2005
WRBW-DT's PSIP system is setup incorrectly which causes program guides on receivers and in your case the HDTivo to think that WRBW-DT is on 65.1 but the channel is tunes on 41.1 (the actual WRBW-DT channel assignment). If WRBW would of setup the PSIP system properly you would be able to view WRBW-DT on 65.1 and be able to record on that channel.

The engineers at WOFL/WRBW are not very friendly about this. Knowing them they probably won't fix the problem. It will probably take an FCC raid for them to fix the PSIP problem at this rate.
CPanther95's Avatar CPanther95 11:10 AM 01-16-2005
We're trying to determine the best OTA HDTV market in the country. We've narrowed it down to Atlanta, Chicago, and Orlando. All three cities offer:

1) All 7 networks in HD
2) The Big 4 networks also must have DD 5.1
3) The Big 4 must have no multicasting that deteriorates the primary HD feed.
4) At least 2 of the 3 other networks must also be DD 5.1 (Atlanta has only 1 of the other 3, but has TBS in HD/DD5.1)

If you guys can provide some local insight to help narrow this down like any low power stations, local engineering problems (not flipping the switch, etc.) or anything else positive or negative that may not be reflected in the criteria mentioned above, it would be appreciated.

Post any comments here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=483294
Rojma's Avatar Rojma 11:44 PM 01-16-2005
Any word with what's going on with WMFE PBS 24 and why since the begining of the year it is not mapping correctly? It is showing up on its broadcasting frequency of 23 (actually 23-2 and 23-4, which is kinda weird) instead of its assigned channel of 24. It was working fine before the end of last year.

This is happening on both my HD Tivo and the built OTA tuner on my TV.

{Edit} Now that I have double checked, my built in OTA receiver on my TV is mapping 23-4 to 24-4, but it is not mapping 23-2 to 24-1. Even stranger, the HD Tivo is not mapping either channel correctly. I have just reran channel scans on both receivers and it has not solved the problem.
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 11:56 PM 01-16-2005

I emailed WMFE during the PID change over and this is his reply. If you have done a rescan and still have problems please contact Mike Simmons.

WMFE changed its PID for its HD program stream on Wednesday, December 22. As you probably already know, digital television is still being tweaked and the PID change was one of those tweaks. I checked our off air receivers here ( two different models ) and they handled the change with no intervention but, of course, that does not mean that all receivers will do that.

Mike Simmons
Director of Engineering
Rojma's Avatar Rojma 12:07 AM 01-17-2005
Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have the contact information for Mike Simmons? Is anyone else with a HD Tivo having this same problem?

I have already completely cleared my scanned channels and did a rescan on my HD Tivo. Was going to do it on my OTA tuner on my TV but WMFE just went off the air so I'll have to wait till the morning to retry on my TV's OTA tuner.
Barry928's Avatar Barry928 12:10 AM 01-17-2005
All contact info for the local stations is on the first page of this thread.
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