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post #631 of 2170 Old 02-06-2006, 09:14 PM
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I had to fiddle with an attenuator but WMBD-DT can be viewed, sort of. It seems to be a standard definition broadcast at low power on the HD carrier at half the normal bitrate. On my receiver, at least, any sort of motion is so jerky that it can make me a bit seasick. It's on physical channel 30.

I have had no luck with UPN-DT, also apparently a low power SD transmission but it's physical channel (39) is so close to WHOI-DT (40) that my preamp wipes it out. When the weather gets better I will need to get up on the roof and remove the rest of my preamps and traps that I needed for analog reception. Others report getting UPN OK so my problems are location related.

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post #632 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SINBAD View Post

Watched the game in Carlock at a friends. WHOI HD was beautiful last night I heard the audio drop for about a second once or twice but that may have been the network.

My audio was dropping too, but at lot more than once or twice - maybe more like a hundred times, maybe a hundred and one.

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post #633 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WillH1983 View Post

Hi all, I am new to this forum, and I just got my OTA antenna working here in Peoria. I was curious to find out if anyone else has problems receiving UPN and WMBD-DT (31-3). I have heard the WMBD-DT is not the greatest quality, but I would still like to know if anyone else has been able to view it.

I'm in Eureka.

I cannont get 31-3 ( 30-3 ) at all.

I know it's only an SD pic, but I get nothing, now.

Are they pushing a weak signal, now. I get Fox, ABC, NBC, PBS, and UPN great.

. . . Bud
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post #634 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

I had to fiddle with an attenuator but WMBD-DT can be viewed, sort of. It seems to be a standard definition broadcast at low power on the HD carrier at half the normal bitrate. On my receiver, at least, any sort of motion is so jerky that it can make me a bit seasick. It's on physical channel 30.

I have had no luck with UPN-DT, also apparently a low power SD transmission but it's physical channel (39) is so close to WHOI-DT (40) that my preamp wipes it out. When the weather gets better I will need to get up on the roof and remove the rest of my preamps and traps that I needed for analog reception. Others report getting UPN OK so my problems are location related.


I have a stealth antenna connected to a foam receiver. The stealth antenna is located in my attic. I am in the heart of Peoria. Without the preamp, I receive WHO-19 and WEEK very well (With the pre-amp connected WEEK would loose signal here and then and I would not receive UPN or WMBD), but I do not receive WTVP or Fox at all. With the pre-amp connected I get all the channels well except for WMBD and UPN, WEEK also comes and goes. So I have a feeling that some of my channels are overlapping each other from too much gain. Do they make any kind of Commercial device to pull out specific channels and amplify them? I could design one, because it is up my alley, but it would be easier to purchase one off the shelf.
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post #635 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 05:34 PM
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bsandy, 31 digital is a very weak signal aimed at Peoria (from East Peoria transmitter) Their PSIP info may be wrong, too. Try manually tuning the physical channel 30 if possible.

WillH1983, Weingard has some inexpensive adjustable channel traps/attenuators (UT-2700 model) I get things like this from a company called Centronics (online also but lousy website - catalog OK). I have not seen any cascadable UHF single channel distribution amplifiers. There are VHF devices for use in MATV systems. The normal way to build a system is to equalize all the stations (by lowering the strong ones) and then running through the appropriate amp. The problem with attenuators is the difficulty of picking out a single channel.

In the analog world 38,39,40,41 could never be in the same market because of massive interference. There is normally a gap of at least 6 - ch 47 is an odd man out and it causes problems) It would be almost impossible to drop the level of 40 (strong WHOI digital) without lowering 39 (weak WAOE UPN) also. Some moron must have decided that digital transmissions would not be affected by adjacent channel and co-channel interference. Anyone with a background in UHF signal distribution systems could have told them it wouldn't work right; but they didn't consult me. My knowledge comes from installing UHF systems in the 70's not from engineering texts. Nowhere else in the country are you likely to find a 100% UHF market so there probaly were no "experts" they could consult about UHF transmission problems so they relied on Electrical Engineers who had never set up a UHF antenna in a trailer park. A trailer park is historically the absolute worst place to get TV reception in the world.

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post #636 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

bsandy, 31 digital is a very weak signal aimed at Peoria (from East Peoria transmitter) Their PSIP info may be wrong, too. Try manually tuning the physical channel 30 if possible.

WillH1983, Weingard has some inexpensive adjustable channel traps/attenuators (UT-2700 model) I get things like this from a company called Centronics (online also but lousy website - catalog OK). I have not seen any cascadable UHF single channel distribution amplifiers. There are VHF devices for use in MATV systems. The normal way to build a system is to equalize all the stations (by lowering the strong ones) and then running through the appropriate amp. The problem with attenuators is the difficulty of picking out a single channel.

In the analog world 38,39,40,41 could never be in the same market because of massive interference. There is normally a gap of at least 6 - ch 47 is an odd man out and it causes problems) It would be almost impossible to drop the level of 40 (strong WHOI digital) without lowering 39 (weak WAOE UPN) also. Some moron must have decided that digital transmissions would not be affected by adjacent channel and co-channel interference. Anyone with a background in UHF signal distribution systems could have told them it wouldn't work right; but they didn't consult me. My knowledge comes from installing UHF systems in the 70's not from engineering texts. Nowhere else in the country are you likely to find a 100% UHF market so there probaly were no "experts" they could consult about UHF transmission problems so they relied on Electrical Engineers who had never set up a UHF antenna in a trailer park. A trailer park is historically the absolute worst place to get TV reception in the world.

I have heard this before, my question is why this is not FCC mandated. For FM broadcasts there is a +/-25KHz guard band between stations, I would think that they would have a similar separation requirement for geographic markets, analog or digital. It is almost like here in Peoria the closer you are to the transmitters; the worse off you are, because of the signal differences. They should be required to transmit at a certain power level, that way avoiding the issues associated with using amplifiers. Sorry for the rant, but pulling in OTA channels should not require signal amplification and attenuation for channels in the same market area.

It looks like I will be trying the weingard part that you suggested above, thanks for the advice.
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post #637 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 08:36 PM
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I think that a majority of stations will be required to go full power this July (unless they are granted a waiver). UHF is a terrible broadcast method, high power transmissions bounce off every solid object. The river bluffs create a criss cross bouncing effect with signals.

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post #638 of 2170 Old 02-07-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

bsandy, 31 digital is a very weak signal aimed at Peoria (from East Peoria transmitter) Their PSIP info may be wrong, too. Try manually tuning the physical channel 30 if possible.

In the analog world 38,39,40,41 could never be in the same market because of massive interference. There is normally a gap of at least 6 - ch 47 is an odd man out and it causes problems) It would be almost impossible to drop the level of 40 (strong WHOI digital) without lowering 39 (weak WAOE UPN) also. Some moron must have decided that digital transmissions would not be affected by adjacent channel and co-channel interference. Anyone with a background in UHF signal distribution systems could have told them it wouldn't work right; but they didn't consult me. My knowledge comes from installing UHF systems in the 70's not from engineering texts. Nowhere else in the country are you likely to find a 100% UHF market so there probaly were no "experts" they could consult about UHF transmission problems so they relied on Electrical Engineers who had never set up a UHF antenna in a trailer park. A trailer park is historically the absolute worst place to get TV reception in the world.

The idea was that tuners would have enough sensitivity (mandated by the FCC)
to be able to handle adjacents just fine, which they normally do, but hold on. Here in the Chicago market, we have 3 on UHF as adjacents---51 (WPWR-UPN), 52(WLS-ABC), and 53 (WGBO-Univision), and since I am 60 miles west of Chicago, I also get WREX-DT on 54. And I get 'em all without any problems.

Your problem was also seen in Milwaukee. Two DT stations, 33 and 34, are next to each other. 34 was easy to get; they were at 900 kw. 33 was at a measly 6 kw
or something obnoxiously low like that. The FCC says that if you put two adjacent DTV channels at full power on the same tower or within a few miles (I forget what the maximum separation distance allowed is exactly), then you won't have interference problems. But you DO have problems when one of the two adjacent DTV channels is at low power. When 33 went to full power last October, the problem was solved. Nobody in Chicago has problems with 51, 52 or 53 due to intermodulation (overloading). They're all at full and reasonably high power.

Wanna hear something funny? Oh, you're going to just laugh your socks off at this: When WMBD-DT goes full power, they'll be at 1 mw (million watts). Any DTV stations adjacent to them at much lower power will now have the problem WMBD-DT has! Irony can be ironic. WHOI and others are pretty much at full power even though they are much lower than what WMBD will be. WMBD will be a stinkin' blowtorch when they turn on the juice full blast.

All CBS stations will have to be HD and full power by the Super Bowl (2007), if CBS HQ has anything to do with it...WCIA in Champaign will have a blowtorch and a half signal almost to the city limits of Peoria...

Gilbert
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post #639 of 2170 Old 02-08-2006, 06:24 AM
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Guys, don't get all bent out of shape about channel spacing...Most stations in the state or even the country for that matter are operating under FCC STA Licenses (special temporary authority) and when analog is shut off (FEB 2009 for now) will revert to their current analog freqs, with the probable exception of those stations that are currently full power as it would be cost prohibitive to revert to their old freq.
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post #640 of 2170 Old 02-08-2006, 12:04 PM
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Just wanna confirm that here in Normal with the $24 UHF yagi from RadioShack pointed towards Peoria with my HDTV card in my PC, I get WHOI, WEEK, WYZZ, WTVP, and WAOE with good signal. I also get WAND and WBUI, probably from the back-end (I get their analog too). No WMBD-DT at all, but hopefully they'll fix their issues.

So for the B/N people, I'd say the U-75 from RS is an inexpensive and good antenna for HDTV (and analog as well).
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post #641 of 2170 Old 02-09-2006, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

The idea was that tuners would have enough sensitivity

WMBD will be a stinkin' blowtorch when they turn on the juice full blast.

I think you mean selectivity not sensitivity on tuner specs.

Hopefully power increases will help, but I'm not holding my breath. Peoria has an "interesting" Geometry. When the tall towers went up (in East Peoria) along with higher power, the residents along the bluffs had their reception deteriorate. It turns out that if you draw a line from the tower tops to the Peoria river bluff (Moss/Bradley area for instance) it will bounce back to the East Peoria river bluff and then back to the Peoria area. The higher the power the worse the ghosting got in the central parts of the city; and East Peoria below the bluff lost almost all reception due to massive ghosting.

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post #642 of 2170 Old 02-09-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

I think you mean selectivity not sensitivity on tuner specs.

Hopefully power increases will help, but I'm not holding my breath. Peoria has an "interesting" Geometry. When the tall towers went up (in East Peoria) along with higher power, the residents along the bluffs had their reception deteriorate. It turns out that if you draw a line from the tower tops to the Peoria river bluff (Moss/Bradley area for instance) it will bounce back to the East Peoria river bluff and then back to the Peoria area. The higher the power the worse the ghosting got in the central parts of the city; and East Peoria below the bluff lost almost all reception due to massive ghosting.

Actually, I meant both: selectivity and sensitivity. Now, as for the reflections...one thing I note is that even though Peoria stations are at high power, the towers aren't very tall. WMBD's digital at 1 mw will be 144 meters AGL. That's 473'! Their analog isn't much better...it's 600' up. By comparison, WHBF-Quad Cities on channel 58 is at 1,227'. Some people in Rockford can get it; on a good night, in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, you can get it. And I bet, with a very directional and good antenna, you can get it in Peoria.

In any case, unless the signal can get above the river bluffs, you'll get more multipath (analog "ghosting") with the 1 mw DT signal. Better have a very directional antenna, or a 5th generation DTV tuner...

Gilbert
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post #643 of 2170 Old 02-09-2006, 02:50 PM
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I just got an eMail from WMBD that said WMBD-DT is broadcasting at 600 watts.

The kid next door is pumping 5 times that out of his trunk when he comes home at 2am.

. . . Bud
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post #644 of 2170 Old 02-20-2006, 05:52 PM
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Is anyone getting the Olympics in HDTV and Dolby Digital..I don't think WEEK has ever broadcasted Dolby Digital sound have they? I just realized that I have never seen my reciever switch over to DD5.1....the picture quality is good..just wish it were DD5.1
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post #645 of 2170 Old 02-20-2006, 06:24 PM
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DD2.0 here. The only NBC show I watch is Leno and I thought I have seen 5.1 there but I'll have to check again. The receiver is behind my seating positions so I rarely look at it.

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post #646 of 2170 Old 02-21-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsandy View Post

I just got an eMail from WMBD that said WMBD-DT is broadcasting at 600 watts.

The kid next door is pumping 5 times that out of his trunk when he comes home at 2am.

. . . Bud

Thats hilarious! I make a point every time I meet a theif to tell them where the "thumpers" live. Only problem is the usually get louder stereos the next time....

You know WMBD has fiber run to their doorstep and they still dont have a clue. They have the most oblivious management I have ever spoken to.

Anyway... WMBD sucks.... and they have no desire to not suck!

I am not running through home theater yet so all I see is Dolby Digital. It wouldn't surprise me if it was just 2.0. .... I really hate Peoria.
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post #647 of 2170 Old 02-27-2006, 05:30 AM
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Just to keep things up to date, the PJStar, in Steve Tarter's Sunday column "On The Air" reports that WHOI will "try to delay the switch over from HD to analog as close to 10 p.m. as possible".

This may help avoid losing the last 5 minutes (in HD) of all the 9 p.m. shows. They showed all but the credits of Boston Legal last week in HD. My guess is that the engineer who flips the switch also has to be in the studio for the news and he can't be in two places at one time.

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post #648 of 2170 Old 03-04-2006, 09:45 AM
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I'm in Northeast Bloomington. Anybody have good luck with one of the sat services and ota reception for HD locals?

Seems like it will be years before the Peoria/Bloomington market becomes available in HD. CBS will probably never be locally, based on what I've read about their interest in HD.

I've cosidered the Insight HD package, which at least gives me some HD content. I'm primarily interested in the local network feeds and what "works best" in my area.
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post #649 of 2170 Old 03-04-2006, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by aydu View Post

I'm in Northeast Bloomington. Anybody have good luck with one of the sat services and ota reception for HD locals?

Seems like it will be years before the Peoria/Bloomington market becomes available in HD. CBS will probably never be locally, based on what I've read about their interest in HD.

I've cosidered the Insight HD package, which at least gives me some HD content. I'm primarily interested in the local network feeds and what "works best" in my area.

I can't speak about satellite and HD availability, but as for locals, NBC (WEEK), ABC (WHOI), and FOX (WYZZ) are all broadcasting in HD. Some better than others, but they are broadcasting HD. As for CBS (WMBD), there has been speculation and news that they are planning for HD to begin sometime late spring, early summer. Also, I have heard that it will be immediately available to Insight Cable without the normal delay in waiting for a contract to be worked out.

With the being said, Insight HD carries the three HD local networks (plus PBS - WTVP) on their HD package. Trust me, I'm not a fan of Insight in the least, but lately, they have been picking it up with the recent additions of NBC and FOX to their HD lineup. And cross your fingers that CBS might be coming soon. Too bad it doesn't seem like it will be soon enough for March Madness!

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post #650 of 2170 Old 03-05-2006, 10:18 AM
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As for CBS (WMBD), there has been speculation and news that they are planning for HD to begin sometime late spring, early summer. Also, I have heard that it will be immediately available to Insight Cable without the normal delay in waiting for a contract to be worked out.

I believe that WMBD and WYZZ share some ownership (Sinclair) and the deal reached earlier this year would have covered both stations but WMBD had no HD so they won't show up until they switch the HD on (rumored to be later this Summer). Since the WMBD studios are located a few hundred yards from the Insight facility they have a "Land Line"; so they appear on cable even if their transmitter goes down.

I wouldn't count on instant inclusion in Bloomington/Normal however, since WYZZ-HD (FOX) is not available on Insight Galesburg. You will need to check with local offices. If FOX-HD is currently on Insight Bloomington then WMBD-HD should follow.

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post #651 of 2170 Old 03-14-2006, 02:35 PM
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What's then nearest CBS DT that might be broadcasting the games in HD ?
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post #652 of 2170 Old 03-14-2006, 05:05 PM
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I think WHBF in the Quad Cities is full power HD. (analog ch4 digital ch58) Personally, I have had no luck with reception.

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post #653 of 2170 Old 03-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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I have Directv and am getting the Mega March Madness special. They have two of the four games per region are being shown in HD...including the Illinois game.
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post #654 of 2170 Old 03-16-2006, 03:35 PM
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I have Directv and am getting the Mega March Madness special. They have two of the four games per region are being shown in HD...including the Illinois game.

Yeah it is normally good when I have my waiver and I can get CBS in HD from D* but tonight (unless I get the megapass) no Illinois in HD. I'll lump it tonight and watch it in SD.

T

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post #655 of 2170 Old 03-19-2006, 01:04 PM
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So we loose out on Illini NCAA tourney games in HD last year, and Bradley this year (from Detroit which was a HD site). If anything will prove demand for WMBD to go HD, this has to be it.
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post #656 of 2170 Old 03-19-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SINBAD View Post

Guys, don't get all bent out of shape about channel spacing...Most stations in the state or even the country for that matter are operating under FCC STA Licenses (special temporary authority) and when analog is shut off (FEB 2009 for now) will revert to their current analog freqs, with the probable exception of those stations that are currently full power as it would be cost prohibitive to revert to their old freq.

Some will and some won't. If there's only a small difference between the two choices, as there is between WMBD-TV 31 and DT 30, there's no point in moving back. If you're more like WHOI and your choice is between 40 and 19, going back to 19 if you can do so may help your casue. (WEEK-DT 57, of course, will have to move since it's above 51.) And most stations with a high-VHF choice will at least seek that high-V channel since you can get a fairly good signal out with far less power, while low-V stations will usually seek to avoid going back to channels 2 through 6 at all costs.

There are exceptions. If where you live straddles the Quad Cities market, ABC affiliate WQAD plans to stay on 38 and will not go back to Channel 8, while CBS affiliate WHBF, for whatever reason, has elected to go back to Channel 4 after the transition.

For the record, here are the channels Peoria stations are seeking to settle on after the transition, based on FCC Form 382 filings:

- WAOE: 39
- WEEK: 25 *
- WHOI: 19 *
- WMBD: 30
- WTVP: 46
- WYZZ: 28

* - These selections were initially disapproved by the FCC. WEEK and WHOI had to file a Form 383 explaining how they plan to resolve interference issues. Both stations indicated that they would stay with their initial selections, but their forms don't specify how they plan to fix their conflicts.

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"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
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post #657 of 2170 Old 03-19-2006, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

I believe that WMBD and WYZZ share some ownership (Sinclair) and the deal reached earlier this year would have covered both stations but WMBD had no HD so they won't show up until they switch the HD on (rumored to be later this Summer). Since the WMBD studios are located a few hundred yards from the Insight facility they have a "Land Line"; so they appear on cable even if their transmitter goes down.

For the record, WMBD is owned by Nexstar, WYZZ is owned by Sinclair, and WMBD operates WYZZ under a management agreement -- not uncommon in markets around our size. (A similar agreement exists between CBS 2 and Fox 28 where I live.)

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"ItÂs looking more like Y2K than the Bay of Pigs." - FCC Commissioner Adelstein, 6-13-09, on the DTV switch
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post #658 of 2170 Old 03-20-2006, 06:37 PM
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Why oh Why doesn't WYZZ broadcast DT, on Monday nights.
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post #659 of 2170 Old 03-20-2006, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bsandy View Post

Why oh Why doesn't WYZZ broadcast DT, on Monday nights.

Thank god it isn't just me. For months and months, I have never been able to get WYZZ on Monday nights. If you search back far enough in this thread or search my old posts, you'll see me inquiring about it. It is so weird, because on the signal meter, it shows up to be a strong 75-85, with no picture. I thought it was just me going crazy or insane or something, but I'm so glad others have the same issues. Thankfully, Insight has picked up WYZZ-DT, and it works there. But nothing OTA, every single Monday. Anyone have a decent explanation for this?

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post #660 of 2170 Old 03-21-2006, 08:18 AM
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WYZZ came in fine OTA for me last night watching 24 in hd. Im in Bloomington, close to the towers so that probably has something to do with it.
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