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post #61 of 3319 Old 04-14-2005, 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by winkydink
I tried pointing my antenna down there yesterday and last night. I was able to pick up a snowy analog signal for WHP (CBS) at channel 21 and a better (but still snowy) signal for WITF (pbs) channel 33. My TV did not lock in on any digital signals for that area. Putting the digital channels manually did not yield any results either.

As an FYI (again I have no meter to measure signal strength), the analog channels 22 and 28 (wb/scranton) come in much clearer for me (watchable with a little snow) than the Harrisburg stations, even though Scranton is 100+ miles and Harrisburg is 60 - 70 miles away in distance.

Also I only have a UHF antenna and so I do not have the correct equipment to optimally recieve some of Harrisburg's digital stations which are located at 4.1 (WHP), 10.1 (WHTM, ABC).


Bummer on the HBG stuff.. I was really hoping we might be able to get the UPN station here so I could catch the last couple Enterprise episodes..

Did you ever post your general location? If you can get WYOU and WBRE from penobscot, that's pretty impressive.. I haven't had a chance to move my antenna up on the roof, but I might go do that this weekend. (It's been on the deck for the winter.) Maybe if WYOU goes to full power digital we can get CBS-HD from them.... Crud.. It figures they're on 11 and 13.. Now I'll have to go get a VHF antenna.. :\\
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post #62 of 3319 Old 04-15-2005, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
That's very interesting. I spent some time talking to her and she really pushed the economic problems as the reason why they weren't doing anything they absolutely didn't have to with the DTV signal on channel 32.. She also pushed their perception of the lack of interest in HD from Adelphia and the Satellite providers and their belief tha there are hardly any HD sets in the DMA. Anyone have any sway with Adelphia here in town?? I would be interested to see how many subs they have for their HD package on the SC system.

I spent a few hours talking to her as well and that is the story she tells but the reality is that in the next 40 smaller markets the CBS station is passing HD in 34 of them.

I think it is a fair assumption that the income of nearly all of those stations would be smaller than that of WTAJ and they've found ways to do it.

So the economic argument doesn't hold water with me. The owners are simply too cheap to make passing HD a priority and the people operating the station, such as Kathy, may be very well intentioned but can only do so much.

It will have to be a competitive pressure and loss of viewership before they see the economic argument of it.

One would think that facing a maximization order that they would go HD to encourage viewers to switch to digital so they could achieve analog shutdown as soon as possible. Certainly *many* sports fans would go HD to watch the Steelers every Sunday in HD this fall. But it seems they just don't see that far ahead.
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post #63 of 3319 Old 04-15-2005, 10:30 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
Bummer on the HBG stuff.. I was really hoping we might be able to get the UPN station here so I could catch the last couple Enterprise episodes..

Did you ever post your general location? If you can get WYOU and WBRE from penobscot, that's pretty impressive.. I haven't had a chance to move my antenna up on the roof, but I might go do that this weekend. (It's been on the deck for the winter.) Maybe if WYOU goes to full power digital we can get CBS-HD from them.... Crud.. It figures they're on 11 and 13.. Now I'll have to go get a VHF antenna.. :\\



I am located at the edge of the borough near Orchard Park by Blue Course Drive.

Just to make it clear, my "good" reception of WYOU and WBRE (WB/Scranton area) is the analog signals at channels 22 and 28, not the digital signal. My understanding is that neither of these stations is at full power yet (or sending out HDTV). I am hoping since I can get WNEP-DT that I might one day be able to see these stations as well.

As they say in real estate, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. It could very well be that my location has me in a favorable spot with mountain geography to receive WB/Scranton station but not Harrisburg stations. I was hopeful about Harrisburg (and will still check from time to time), but my optimism has faded somewhat.


Quote:


As for WJAC, there is some sort of wicked multipath problem here in State College with their signal. Over the winter of 2003-2004 I could receive it just fine in the evenings with an elaborate antenna setup but as soon as spring 2004 came I never could receive it reliably again. Most other people I ask about it here have the same problem. They're going to increase their transmitter power to 1 MW this spring/summer and that should make a big difference, but we'll have to wait and see to be sure. Adelphia receives it in Philipsburg and transports the MPEG stream down here on fiber to the head end for distribution.

If you're not getting a taste of the WJAC signal now my guess is that it is unlikely the 6 dB change in SNR you'll see from the 1 MW upgrade will help you.

I was rather discourage by slykens thoughts regarding my possible reception of WJAC-DT. tinyiota, do you have a "taste" of the WJAC-DT? I have contacted WJAC directly and am awaiting a response with regard to their plans on getting a clear over the air signal into State College, and if they are planning to convert channel 7 to DTV.

I have email out to several stations (Fox - WWCP, NBC - WJAC, ABC-WATM)awaiting replies as to their timetables, plans for HDTV, conversions of low power transmitters etc. If I get any responses, I will share these with the forum.
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post #64 of 3319 Old 04-15-2005, 08:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by winkydink
I am located at the edge of the borough near Orchard Park by Blue Course Drive.

Just to make it clear, my "good" reception of WYOU and WBRE (WB/Scranton area) is the analog signals at channels 22 and 28, not the digital signal. My understanding is that neither of these stations is at full power yet (or sending out HDTV). I am hoping since I can get WNEP-DT that I might one day be able to see these stations as well.


Given your location and the location of the mountains, I'm not that surprised can see the antennas on Penobscot knob.

I don't know enough about RF propagation to say anything about what will happen with WBRE and WYOU. I know that 22's -DT channel assignment is 13 and 28's -DT channel is 11. Presumably with a lower frequency the propagation will be better..

Quote:



I was rather discourage by slykens thoughts regarding my possible reception of WJAC-DT. tinyiota, do you have a "taste" of the WJAC-DT? I have contacted WJAC directly and am awaiting a response with regard to their plans on getting a clear over the air signal into State College, and if they are planning to convert channel 7 to DTV.

I have an HD DirecTivo and it can see JAC's -DT signal. At frequent, but apparently random times, it has trouble holding onto the signal, but I can occasionally get through a whole NBC-HD tv show.

Watching the signal strength meter on the tech info page shows the signal strength fluctuates wildly between about 60 and 0.

Right now my yagi is in a suboptimal place. I need to move it up on the roof and I might get a CM 4228 as a test to see if I can catch WWCP or WNEP. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to be able to get them, because MT Nittany is in the way.

People on the HD antenna forums claim that moving an antenna even a few feet on your roof can have profound effects on what you can pick up.
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post #65 of 3319 Old 04-19-2005, 08:58 AM
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I received the following reply from WJAC (NBC-6) regarding HDTV in the State College area. (This was from their Chief Engineer.)

Quote:


WJAC-DT is currently operating with 250KW power. We do have some viewers in the State College area but it is dependent on their location. We plan to quadruple our power (1,000,000 watts) on July 1. Hopefully, that will improve our coverage in State College. Also, we plan to upgrade our channel 7 translator to digital sometime in 2006.

So there is still hope (in 2006) for State College with regard to NBC even if going to full power on July 1 does not improve our local signal enough. Let's hope that Fox also plans to convert over Channel 59.
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post #66 of 3319 Old 04-19-2005, 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by winkydink
I received the following reply from WJAC (NBC-6) regarding HDTV in the State College area. (This was from their Chief Engineer.)



So there is still hope (in 2006) for State College with regard to NBC even if going to full power on July 1 does not improve our local signal enough. Let's hope that Fox also plans to convert over Channel 59.

Well, Channels 51+ are slated to be recovered and auctioned off by the FCC after the DTV transition is over, so I'd guess that they'll have to get a new channel allocation on a lower frequency, but yeah, I suppose we can look forward to that. Too bad it's still 2 years away.
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post #67 of 3319 Old 04-26-2005, 01:40 AM
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I received the following information from the chief engineer of Fox8/ABC23 regarding DTV (HDTV) and going to full power.

Quote:


We will be full power (1000 kw)on both WATM and WWCP by mid June. We will be at this point standard definition on both. We will be muxing the 2 signals together at both transmitter sites. Ex: WATM will have 24.1 as ABC and 24.2 will be FOX both of course in standard definition and WWCP will have 29.1 as FOX and 29.2 as ABC.


When prompted for more information, I then received the following:

Quote:


At this time we are not sure when we will broadcast true HD on either station. For now they will be standard def. As far as the repeater (ch 59) in State College I am not sure exactly what will happen there, as you mentioned the spectrum is going to be reassigned. It is possible that if a translator is needed for the area we will be able to have an on channel repeater. This is yet to be decided. I hope this answers your questions I know it is vague but to many things can and will change in the near future.

So there you have it, standard def for both FOX and ABC for the foreseeable future. One thing is clear (I think) is that they will not have the band width to broadcast both FOX8 and ABC23 at high def from the same transmitter (i.e. 24.1 ABC HD, 24.2 Fox HD). In my "new to the game" opinion, it looks like a long wait until we get FOX HD.
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post #68 of 3319 Old 04-26-2005, 09:06 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by winkydink
I received the following information from the chief engineer of Fox8/ABC23 regarding DTV (HDTV) and going to full power.




When prompted for more information, I then received the following:



So there you have it, standard def for both FOX and ABC for the foreseeable future. One thing is clear (I think) is that they will not have the band width to broadcast both FOX8 and ABC23 at high def from the same transmitter (i.e. 24.1 ABC HD, 24.2 Fox HD). In my "new to the game" opinion, it looks like a long wait until we get FOX HD.


Greaaaaatt.... So come July we might have NBC and PBS in HD and nothing else. Blech.

You might want to call him out on the FOX-HD thing..
I've seen posts on this and other forums that say that the FOX network provides all the equipment the affiliates need to pass the network HD signal right through to their digital transmitter. The local affiliate's content might not be in HD, but the network is.. I wonder if their transmitter down in Ligonier will be in HD, but to transport the network stream up to the Altoona transmitter they'll resample it down to SD.. That would truly suck.

The same frequency repeater thing is interesting.. Someone should get them to call PSX.

Well, Thanks for tracking down the info. The FOX engineer guy just sort of blew me off when I tried to talk to him.
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post #69 of 3319 Old 05-06-2005, 01:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by winkydink
I received the following information from the chief engineer of Fox8/ABC23 regarding DTV (HDTV) and going to full power.



Quote:


We will be muxing the 2 signals together at both transmitter sites. Ex: WATM will have 24.1 as ABC and 24.2 will be FOX both of course in standard definition and WWCP will have 29.1 as FOX and 29.2 as ABC.


As advertised WATM-DT is now broadcasting (in standard def) both WATM (ABC-23) and WWCP (Fox-8). WATM is on 24.1 and 24.3 and WWCP is on 24.4. It does not appear that they have raised their output power yet, as I still get drop outs and pixelation from time to time. I don't know what is happening with the WWCP-DT transmission, as I still am unable to receive it in State College.
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post #70 of 3319 Old 05-13-2005, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by winkydink


As advertised WATM-DT is now broadcasting (in standard def) both WATM (ABC-23) and WWCP (Fox-8). WATM is on 24.1 and 24.3 and WWCP is on 24.4. It does not appear that they have raised their output power yet, as I still get drop outs and pixelation from time to time. I don't know what is happening with the WWCP-DT transmission, as I still am unable to receive it in State College.

Hey, has anyone else been able to tune WWCP on 24.4? My HD tivo doesn't seem to see anything but 24.1..

I thought I did the channel scan again, but guess I can't remember the special incantation I need to do.
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post #71 of 3319 Old 05-18-2005, 02:28 AM
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I noticed that on Monday (5/16) PBS-HD was off the air in State College (3.1 or 15.4-15.6). Last evening I did a channel search and found that WPSX is now being broadcast on channel 15.1 (not currently remapped to 3.1). This was only 480i (standard resolution). If PBS-HD does not come back on the air in the next day or two, I will fire off an email to WPSX to see what is going on.

At this point, we have lost our only HD signal in the State College area(excluding WNEP out of WB/Scranton).
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post #72 of 3319 Old 05-18-2005, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I think WPSX might be in the process of moving to their new studios at Innovation Park. I was at Telcove today for a meeting across the street and they were working on getting their new STLs up and running, it looked like.

Thems some big microwave dishes on the roof up there.
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post #73 of 3319 Old 05-23-2005, 01:49 AM
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I am not sure if this was atmospheric conditions or some engineers just playing around with output power, but ...

On Friday evening I was able to pick up a STRONG WJAC-DT signal (6.1 and 6.2 remapped from 34.3 and 34.4). I was able to view the Tonight show with no drop outs. The strong signal lasted into the daylight the next morning (say 9 or 10 am) before weakening. After that time I have not been able to pick up their signal again.

They were 1080i (HD) on 6.1 and 480i (SD) on 6.2.

This is the first time I have been able to pick up WJAC for any length of time with a solid signal. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.
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post #74 of 3319 Old 05-23-2005, 06:54 AM
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So this weekend I finally decided to buy a cheap $25 UHF antenna from Radio Shack (40" UHF only), and mount it on my roof to see what I could pull in from Denver.

As expected, I got Fox, WB2, and some PBS stuff. Much to my surprise, I also am getting 8 out of 10 bars for NBC 9-1 from Denver.

Have they recently boosted their output power or something. I'm two miles south of Harmony just East of I-25. Everything else I read from people in FC indicated that they couldn't get NBC from Denver. One thing that may help, is that I believe that my area is 100 - 200 FT higher than the Harmony road area.
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post #75 of 3319 Old 05-23-2005, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkydink View Post

I am not sure if this was atmospheric conditions or some engineers just playing around with output power, but ...

I know WJAC is planning to go to 1 MW if they have not already. Their MPEG encoder went screwy last night at 9:00p when network switched to HD. I dunno how long it remained like that.

I doubt they'd power up to 1 MW then drop back down to 250 kW unless there was a problem with the equipment. Perhaps someone with more broadcast knowledge than I might have insight.

I think you were lucky with the atmosphere.
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post #76 of 3319 Old 05-23-2005, 07:33 PM
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I am moving to State College soon, what HD channels can I expect to get from Adelphia?
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post #77 of 3319 Old 05-24-2005, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Adelphia State College:

706 - WJAC-DT (NBC)
750 - HBO HD
751 - Showtime HD
752 - Starz HD
753 - Cinemax HD
770 - HDNet
771 - HDNet Movies
772 - ESPNHD

The system is currently limited to 550 MHz, a 750 MHz upgrade is underway but I don't know when we can expect the rest of the broadcasters in the area to buck up and go HD (other than WPSX - PBS), nor when Adelphia (soon to be Comcast) might add networks.
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post #78 of 3319 Old 05-27-2005, 07:39 AM
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I have nothing but good things to say about Kathy Smith of WTAJ. She did everything that she could to get me a waiver for Dish Network CBS out of NYC. Here are a few quotes from email conversations between us, and I'm curious if anybody has any thoughts on her comments:

"Waivers are granted for HD programming based on your ability to receive our
analog signal with an antenna. Send me your address & I'll research your
signal strength. We will not be broadcasting in HD for approximately
another 12-18 months. You're correct in realizing the cost involved. It's
well over a million dollars to upgrade to full digital & more for high
definition. Plus, we have no committment from the satellite companies to
carry our HD signal when we do convert. We currently broadcast a digital
signal on Channel 32, but you can only pick up WTAJ-DTV with a digital
antenna & receiver. As yet, no cable companies nor either dish company
carries our digital signal."

"Also, the sat carriers do not want to give up the bandwidth it would take to
carry both the analog & the digital (or HD) signals for the local stations.
The cable companies are of the same opinion. It will change as digital
becomes more popular. For your information...of the total number of
television sets in this market, less than 1% are HD capable. We are still
in the stone age of TV around here even though the big tech stores are
pushing them. Analog will become obsolete in the not too distant future, if
the FCC has its way."

Also, slykens, when is the next update like your original post?

Thanks,
JP

JayPo
ThePolettos.com
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post #79 of 3319 Old 05-27-2005, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I would love to say soon but it doesn't seem like things are improving here as quickly as I would like them to.

I have to assume that with WWCP going to full power in the next 40 days that Adelphia will pick them up much in the same way they do WJAC and put the FOX-HD content on the State College system.

I am toying with getting some tower space at Wopsy and backhauling the KDKA-DT stream to State College for Steelers games and WTAE for Monday Night Football this fall at 5.8 Ghz. My problem is I don't know how much adjacent channel interference I'm going to get from WATM's TV and DT transmitters right there and I know I cannot get a filter agile enough to cut out 24 but leave 25 alone.

Of the people here with clear line of sight to Pine Grove mountain, is there any interest in participating in such a project?
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post #80 of 3319 Old 05-30-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

I would love to say soon but it doesn't seem like things are improving here as quickly as I would like them to.

I have to assume that with WWCP going to full power in the next 40 days that Adelphia will pick them up much in the same way they do WJAC and put the FOX-HD content on the State College system.

WATM is apparently at full power now. I get almost 100% signal without an amp on 24, plus WATM is on 24-3 and WWCP is on 24-4, both in SD.

Quote:


I am toying with getting some tower space at Wopsy and backhauling the KDKA-DT stream to State College for Steelers games and WTAE for Monday Night Football this fall at 5.8 Ghz. My problem is I don't know how much adjacent channel interference I'm going to get from WATM's TV and DT transmitters right there and I know I cannot get a filter agile enough to cut out 24 but leave 25 alone.

Of the people here with clear line of sight to Pine Grove mountain, is there any interest in participating in such a project?

Eh? TAE-DT shows as being on channel 51.
An alternate option is to just go up on pine grove and point at WNEP-DT, no?

Anyway, I'd be willing to try it, but I'm just on the edge of being able to see Pine Grove.
What about one of the towers on Skytop up towards Bellefonte or down by Warrior's Mark?

Isn't this how the cable TV industry got started??
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post #81 of 3319 Old 05-30-2005, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyiota View Post

Eh? TAE-DT shows as being on channel 51.
An alternate option is to just go up on pine grove and point at WNEP-DT, no?


Duh.. Just picked up on the CBS part.. Nevermind..
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post #82 of 3319 Old 06-01-2005, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

I would love to say soon but it doesn't seem like things are improving here as quickly as I would like them to.

....

I am toying with getting some tower space at Wopsy and backhauling the KDKA-DT stream to State College for Steelers games and WTAE for Monday Night Football this fall at 5.8 Ghz. My problem is I don't know how much adjacent channel interference I'm going to get from WATM's TV and DT transmitters right there and I know I cannot get a filter agile enough to cut out 24 but leave 25 alone.


What exactly is involved in what you are proposing to do and how would this uplink the signal to State College. Would we need special equipment in order to receive this "backhaulded" transmission? I have no HAM or radio experience so I am interested (from an engineering perspective) as to what you plan to do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

I have to assume that with WWCP going to full power in the next 40 days that Adelphia will pick them up much in the same way they do WJAC and put the FOX-HD content on the State College system.

When I emailed the WWCP/WATM chief engineer, he stated that at the present time they would not be going to HD for FOX. So until WWCP is in HD I am assuming that Adelphia would not pick them up.

Is WWCP (29.x) broadcasting at full power? How about WJAC? I can sporadically get WJAC (6.x, 34.X) but have never gotten 29.X. WATM (24.3, 24.4) are now solid, so I would have to agree that they have increased thier power output.
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post #83 of 3319 Old 06-01-2005, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkydink View Post

What exactly is involved in what you are proposing to do and how would this uplink the signal to State College. Would we need special equipment in order to receive this "backhaulded" transmission? I have no HAM or radio experience so I am interested (from an engineering perspective) as to what you plan to do.

When I emailed the WWCP/WATM chief engineer, he stated that at the present time they would not be going to HD for FOX. So until WWCP is in HD I am assuming that Adelphia would not pick them up.

Is WWCP (29.x) broadcasting at full power? How about WJAC? I can sporadically get WJAC (6.x, 34.X) but have never gotten 29.X. WATM (24.3, 24.4) are now solid, so I would have to agree that they have increased thier power output.

What I'm looking at is using an Atheros-based 802.11a radio in their "turbo" mode which provides about 50 Mbps in actual UDP throughput. Combine that with an HD3000 card in a PC at Wopsy, dvbstream, and multicast, and assuming the fade margins are not too tight it should be wholly possible to get the streams up here.

WWCP was advertising that they were broadcasting in HD during the Superbowl. Since big-FOX is providing the ATSC stream to WWCP and all WWCP has to do is transport it to their digital transmitter I can't believe they're *not* doing HD. I haven't emailed their engineer in a long time but the last time I did I got no response.

As far as I know WWCP isn't at full power yet. I know WJAC plans to go to 1 MW but I don't think it has happened yet, they may be waiting until July 1 on the nose. I was pleasantly surprised to see WATM at full power already but thoroughly disappointed that they're not passing ABC in HD.

The WATM-DT stream is split at about 9.5 Mbps for WATM-TV and the same for WWCP-TV. The picture is much better than what we get from Adelphia but it still isn't HD. They could put ABC-HD on there at 14.5 Mbps and WWCP-TV at 4.7 Mbps and have the picture look great for both, with a quality encoder.

WJAC-DT's stream is just shy of 15 Mbps for the HD stream, the remainder for the weather subchannel, fwiw. I personally think that's a little tight for a 1080i stream but most of the shows on NBC-HD aren't very motion intensive. I hope the encoder holds up when NBC gets Sunday Night Football next fall.

The whole lack of HD doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you as a station owner were being forced by the government to operate TWO transmitters at full power wouldn't you want to speed up adoption of the new technology so you could turn off one of those transmitters as soon as possible? By offering no improvement to go to digital there is no encouragement for consumers. Just having ths Steelers and Eagles available in HD would sell a ton of sets. Operating at 1 MW on channel 34 has to be significantly more expensive than WJAC's analog transmitter at 70 kW on channel 6. Nearly the same for WWCP and WTAJ. WATM is the luckiest in the market, there really is no material difference between 23 and 24 as far as operational cost so my guess is they'll simply retain 24 after the transition.
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post #84 of 3319 Old 06-02-2005, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by slykens View Post

What I'm looking at is using an Atheros-based 802.11a radio in their "turbo" mode which provides about 50 Mbps in actual UDP throughput. Combine that with an HD3000 card in a PC at Wopsy, dvbstream, and multicast, and assuming the fade margins are not too tight it should be wholly possible to get the streams up here.

And then turn it around on Pine Grove on another set of channels?

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WWCP was advertising that they were broadcasting in HD during the Superbowl. Since big-FOX is providing the ATSC stream to WWCP and all WWCP has to do is transport it to their digital transmitter I can't believe they're *not* doing HD. I haven't emailed their engineer in a long time but the last time I did I got no response.

I thought there were allegations earlier in this thread that they had a fiber connection to a cable headend down near Ligonier somewhere and that's what the HD part was??
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As far as I know WWCP isn't at full power yet. I know WJAC plans to go to 1 MW but I don't think it has happened yet, they may be waiting until July 1 on the nose. I was pleasantly surprised to see WATM at full power already but thoroughly disappointed that they're not passing ABC in HD.

The WATM-DT stream is split at about 9.5 Mbps for WATM-TV and the same for WWCP-TV. The picture is much better than what we get from Adelphia but it still isn't HD. They could put ABC-HD on there at 14.5 Mbps and WWCP-TV at 4.7 Mbps and have the picture look great for both, with a quality encoder.

I was getting what seemed like audio overdrive problems on 24.4 the other night during ST:Enterprise. The problem seems to have subsided since. The picture looks good, but it's still soo crappy when compared to the -HD counterpart, even from DTV.

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WJAC-DT's stream is just shy of 15 Mbps for the HD stream, the remainder for the weather subchannel, fwiw. I personally think that's a little tight for a 1080i stream but most of the shows on NBC-HD aren't very motion intensive. I hope the encoder holds up when NBC gets Sunday Night Football next fall.

The whole lack of HD doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you as a station owner were being forced by the government to operate TWO transmitters at full power wouldn't you want to speed up adoption of the new technology so you could turn off one of those transmitters as soon as possible? By offering no improvement to go to digital there is no encouragement for consumers. Just having ths Steelers and Eagles available in HD would sell a ton of sets. Operating at 1 MW on channel 34 has to be significantly more expensive than WJAC's analog transmitter at 70 kW on channel 6. Nearly the same for WWCP and WTAJ. WATM is the luckiest in the market, there really is no material difference between 23 and 24 as far as operational cost so my guess is they'll simply retain 24 after the transition.

There was an article the other day that said less than 10% of sets in the US are HD and even less of the households with those sets can actually receive an HD signal. I just read the headlines, dunno what their source was, but given that and Kathy Smith's statements that they don't see the economics in running any OTA transmitter, let alone a HD unit and I can understand the locals trying to get through the HD conversion by spending as little money as possible, especially when they plan on switching back to their VHF channels at the end...

The funny part is how little value they place in their OTA viewers.
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post #85 of 3319 Old 06-03-2005, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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And then turn it around on Pine Grove on another set of channels?

No, one would need an 802.11a radio to receive the stream and a PC to decode it. Its a little involved but beer and liquor can solve the problem. The Atheros chipset I am looking to use is capable of providing at least 41 Mbps actual throughput on some low end hardware and as much as 60 Mbps of actual throughput on better hardware. That's actual IP throughput on an air rate of 108 Mbps.

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I thought there were allegations earlier in this thread that they had a fiber connection to a cable headend down near Ligonier somewhere and that's what the HD part was??

That would not surprise me but the fact they only need to purchase a digital STL to get HD on the air would leave me to believe that they can't possible be that cheap! I can buy 300 Mbps wireless links for $20k list, that's enough to carry 15 full rate ATSC streams.

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There was an article the other day that said less than 10% of sets in the US are HD and even less of the households with those sets can actually receive an HD signal. I just read the headlines, dunno what their source was, but given that and Kathy Smith's statements that they don't see the economics in running any OTA transmitter, let alone a HD unit and I can understand the locals trying to get through the HD conversion by spending as little money as possible, especially when they plan on switching back to their VHF channels at the end...

The funny part is how little value they place in their OTA viewers.

A few points on this... Our market has high 80's penetration of cable and DBS, so there's only about 11-13% of the market that is OTA. That may contribute to the not caring about them.

Passing HD has nothing to do with the transmitter itself other than the transmitter must be digital. The transmitter broadcasts whatever it is fed, whether its data, HD, SD, or null data. My point is that starting July 1 they will be required to operate two full power transmitters driving the same exact content. As a consumer there is *NO* benefit to me to change to digital so I might as well hang on to the NTSC set and signal I'm getting now. By passing HD from network they would encourage many sports fans to change to digital and thereby encourage a faster transition.

Steelers in HD on CBS, Eagles and Nascar in HD on Fox, and Monday Night Football in HD on ABC... And with HD capable displays now under $1,000 in Wal-Mart the technology is well within Joe SixPack's budget. It's simply chicken and egg, I believe the broadcasters must provide a service to encourage consumers to change, they believe the demand must exist before the change will occur.

What they may be counting on is the FCC determining that cable and DBS penetration counts towards the 85% figure required to turn off analog in a particular market.

I just don't buy the economics argument when I look at it in the context of what many markets smaller than ours are doing.
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post #86 of 3319 Old 06-03-2005, 08:10 PM
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No, one would need an 802.11a radio to receive the stream and a PC to decode it. Its a little involved but beer and liquor can solve the problem. The Atheros chipset I am looking to use is capable of providing at least 41 Mbps actual throughput on some low end hardware and as much as 60 Mbps of actual throughput on better hardware. That's actual IP throughput on an air rate of 108 Mbps.

Yeah, I assumed that.. Was just figuring you'd need something like a soekris or WRAP box in pine grove to turn the streams around. I have a couple 4826s around here somewhere.. I'd just have to find some Atheros cards for them and a suitable antenna..

Quote:


A few points on this... Our market has high 80's penetration of cable and DBS, so there's only about 11-13% of the market that is OTA. That may contribute to the not caring about them.

One wonders if that's a result of them never caring about OTA. Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, as it were. Nobody ever bothered trying to do OTA tv here because the signals sucked so bad they had to do sat or cable.
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post #87 of 3319 Old 06-04-2005, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at 4826s for this project. I have a pair of 4501's I'm going to use to test some links with and eventually establish a connection between my house and new office downtown.

I'm also looking at a 4-port MiniPCI board with an Intel 533 MHz processor from Gateworks, but I'm having trouble finding this board in small quantities at the moment.

Pacific Wireless builds a 26 dBi 5.3-5.8 GHz grid antenna for about $70, according to Radio Mobile this is enough to get the link done. Pasadena Wireless offers the Atheros cards for $53, and a 400 mW version for $139.

It will take some testing but that's part of the fun.
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post #88 of 3319 Old 06-09-2005, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey boys and girls...

I stopped at Adelphia yesterday to pick up an HD DVR from them since I'm tired of my current Myth experiement and would like to record premium content on occasion.

Turns out they're dishing out DCT-6412's with the new iGuide interface rather than that old clunky interface with advertisments that sucks balls. While the DVR interface blows compared to Tivo, I like the guide much better. It is actually useful now. I only wish the guide would take up the full 16:9 screen. Oh well, one step at a time!

Just fyi.
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post #89 of 3319 Old 06-09-2005, 11:38 PM
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I have nothing but good things to say about Kathy Smith of WTAJ. She did everything that she could to get me a waiver for Dish Network CBS out of NYC.

Interestingly, in my latest efforts to get CBS-HD, I ended up having D* request HD waviers from all the networks.. I finally got the CBS approval I wanted, with ABC and NBC turning me down, but in an odd turn of events, FOX approved an HD wavier for me.. If you have D*, it's probably worth getting in touch with Kathy and then requesting the wavier from all 4 stations, you might be surprised by what you get.

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Here are a few quotes from email conversations between us, and I'm curious if anybody has any thoughts on her comments:

"Waivers are granted for HD programming based on your ability to receive our
analog signal with an antenna. Send me your address & I'll research your
signal strength. We will not be broadcasting in HD for approximately
another 12-18 months. You're correct in realizing the cost involved. It's
well over a million dollars to upgrade to full digital & more for high
definition. Plus, we have no committment from the satellite companies to
carry our HD signal when we do convert. We currently broadcast a digital
signal on Channel 32, but you can only pick up WTAJ-DTV with a digital
antenna & receiver. As yet, no cable companies nor either dish company
carries our digital signal."

She's said the same thing about satellite commitment to me.. I don't know what "commitment" means to her exactly, but D* has launched one satellite and has another on a pad in French Guyana, each advertised to be capable of carrying 500 HD channels. They've also said in earnings conference calls and the like that they intend to carry HD LiLs everywhere as the satellites are brought online and they roll out their MP4 devices. I suppose she'd like a signed contract, but I don't see how that's possible before the sats are in the sky.. I bet the tune changes in the next 6 months as Comcast completes their purchase of Adelphia and DTV brings both spaceway sats online.
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post #90 of 3319 Old 06-10-2005, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Heh, the whole comment is kinda funny.

On the day of analog shutdown both DBS companies and all cable companies in the area will carry their digital signal. Further, as of today there is no difference in content between their analog and digital transmitters. Saying that DBS won't carry their signal in HD and so they're not going to pass it is just an excuse.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Kathy and so I'm caught between extreme frustration with her station and liking her.

I realize we aren't a huge market, but many stations in many markets smaller than ours are passing HD from network and seem to still be in business.
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