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Local HDTV Info and Reception

shoeboo's Avatar shoeboo
06:00 AM Liked: 10
post #181 of 3356
12-12-2005 | Posts: 51
Joined: Jan 2003
Some of the new channels are here. WPSU is the only affiliate, but they have ESPN2, INHD 1&2, discovery, and NFL HD.
Brandon
pulpdog's Avatar pulpdog
09:23 AM Liked: 10
post #182 of 3356
12-12-2005 | Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2005
So to summarize....please advise me if I am correct. Adelphia is advertising locals in HD, but not providing them. Their channel lineup online lists all the networks as well.

I should not then, give up my fight for NY HD locals with Directv and the affiliates yet. Or am I better off switching to adelphia anyway?

Thanks.
slykens's Avatar slykens
11:46 AM Liked: 10
post #183 of 3356
12-12-2005 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulpdog View Post

So to summarize....please advise me if I am correct. Adelphia is advertising locals in HD, but not providing them. Their channel lineup online lists all the networks as well.

I should not then, give up my fight for NY HD locals with Directv and the affiliates yet. Or am I better off switching to adelphia anyway?

As of this morning it appears that Adelphia carries two of the three networks available in HD in our area, being PBS and NBC.

FOX is also available in HD and ABC should be available in HD before the Superbowl.

CBS might make it in HD in June or July on the basis of a previous post by a member here.

As to Adelphia carrying all of that... It was explained to me that Atlantic Broadband in Johnstown makes the fiber connection to WWCP/WATM's studio then transports that to tie into Adelphia's "PONY" (Pennsylvania-Ohio-New York) ring. Atlantic Broadband definitely has FOX-HD available to its customers and at one point some Adelphia customers had it as well. Why this hasn't been reconnected or turned up everywhere available I don't know but I'd like to try to get some answers.

WWCP/WATM does intend to put their HD signals up OTA but they're looking for a cost-effective STL setup as they have to have a total of three STLs, two from their studio to the WWCP transmitter then one from there to the WATM transmitter in Altoona.

My suggestion would be to continue fighting for NY HD for now, at the least you'll get the NCAA Tournament in HD in March, and if you get lucky you could guaruntee yourself BCS and Superbowl in HD as well.

Perhaps some angry calls based on the listing on the website could get someone to give some answers as to when all *available* locals in HD will be on the cable system.
mattbooty's Avatar mattbooty
11:52 AM Liked: 10
post #184 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 76
Joined: Dec 2005
Hello, I just bought my first HDTV and I'm looking into what programming options are available. I found this forum and was hoping someone could give me a comprehensive update as to whats available? I live in Altoona. It seems like most of the posters here are in State College and that most of the stations that are sketchy reception may be better for me as I'm closer to Johnstown. I have DirecTV and plan to get the locals from Off-Air if possible.

Anyways, could anyone give me a list of what networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) I should be able to get and which if any are in HD? And for the ones that aren't in HD now, what the current estimates are for them?

I appreciate any help anyone can give me, I tried reading through the thread, but there is just so much info and its spread out over such a long period of time I started getting lost in it

Thanks
paguy05's Avatar paguy05
03:35 PM Liked: 10
post #185 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 2005
matt just go to this site antennaweb and it will tell your what channels you can get.
mattbooty's Avatar mattbooty
04:01 PM Liked: 10
post #186 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 76
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by paguy05 View Post

matt just go to this site antennaweb and it will tell your what channels you can get.

I went there but I can't figure out how to tell what is HD and what isn't. Is everything on there HD? Because it lists every network there and they are all very close (except for nbc which is 30 miles away in johnstown), does this mean I'll be able to get everythign in HD? I didn't get that impression from the other posts here. Also, why is it that CBS ABC and FOX are all listed as 5.3-5.5 miles away but CBS/ABC I only need a yellow antenna and FOX jumps all the way up to blue?

Thanks for your response.
tinyiota's Avatar tinyiota
06:19 PM Liked: 10
post #187 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 229
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbooty View Post

I went there but I can't figure out how to tell what is HD and what isn't. Is everything on there HD? Because it lists every network there and they are all very close (except for nbc which is 30 miles away in johnstown), does this mean I'll be able to get everythign in HD? I didn't get that impression from the other posts here. Also, why is it that CBS ABC and FOX are all listed as 5.3-5.5 miles away but CBS/ABC I only need a yellow antenna and FOX jumps all the way up to blue?

Thanks for your response.

If you read through the thread, you will find that all the networks in the market are broadcasting in digital, but currently only NBC and PBS are in HD Over The Air.

In addition, it has also been discussed that since FOX and ABC are owned by the same entity, they are broadcasting both ABC and FOX on channel 24 in Altoona.
CBS is broadcasting on channel 32 in Altoona as well.
TV reception is a very location specific thing, but since you're in Altoona, depending on the terrain at your location, you should be able to get all of the networks in digital (at least).

The Timeframe until the remaining networks are available OTA in HD is known only to the people running the various TV stations. It was posted earlier in this thread that CBS was hoping to have an HD OTA signal by next summer. It was also posted that FOX/ABC wants to do HD, but is working on figuring out a cost effective way to get the HD streams from their studio to their transmitters. When this all actually happens is anyone's guess.

Unfortunately, the only sure-fire way to tell if the station is in HD is to watch it's stream, or ask them. There are a bunch of "lists" around, but they are not always accurate.. As an Example, if you go to the CBS corporate site, they list WTAJ as broadcasting in HD, even though they are not.
mattbooty's Avatar mattbooty
07:16 PM Liked: 10
post #188 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 76
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyiota View Post

If you read through the thread, you will find that all the networks in the market are broadcasting in digital, but currently only NBC and PBS are in HD Over The Air.

In addition, it has also been discussed that since FOX and ABC are owned by the same entity, they are broadcasting both ABC and FOX on channel 24 in Altoona.
CBS is broadcasting on channel 32 in Altoona as well.
TV reception is a very location specific thing, but since you're in Altoona, depending on the terrain at your location, you should be able to get all of the networks in digital (at least).

The Timeframe until the remaining networks are available OTA in HD is known only to the people running the various TV stations. It was posted earlier in this thread that CBS was hoping to have an HD OTA signal by next summer. It was also posted that FOX/ABC wants to do HD, but is working on figuring out a cost effective way to get the HD streams from their studio to their transmitters. When this all actually happens is anyone's guess.

Unfortunately, the only sure-fire way to tell if the station is in HD is to watch it's stream, or ask them. There are a bunch of "lists" around, but they are not always accurate.. As an Example, if you go to the CBS corporate site, they list WTAJ as broadcasting in HD, even though they are not.

Thank you for your help! I did read through the previous posts, but I'm new to HD and was having trouble deciphering all the information.

A follow up question, you said everything is available in digital OTA, would this be any better than the picture quality I'm getting right now from getting my locals from direcTV's satellite? If I do sign up for their HD package would it be worth anything to have them set me up for OTA locals or should I just wait?

Thanks again!
paguy05's Avatar paguy05
09:43 PM Liked: 10
post #189 of 3356
12-17-2005 | Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbooty View Post

Thank you for your help! I did read through the previous posts, but I'm new to HD and was having trouble deciphering all the information.

A follow up question, you said everything is available in digital OTA, would this be any better than the picture quality I'm getting right now from getting my locals from direcTV's satellite? If I do sign up for their HD package would it be worth anything to have them set me up for OTA locals or should I just wait?

Thanks again!

i think its worth it to sign up hd trough directv. and i wouldnt let directv hook up anteena for you it costs to much plus i read there antenna is junk. so just go a indoor anteena to try first to see if you can pick anything up.
mattbooty's Avatar mattbooty
02:41 PM Liked: 10
post #190 of 3356
12-18-2005 | Posts: 76
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by paguy05 View Post

i think its worth it to sign up hd trough directv. and i wouldnt let directv hook up anteena for you it costs to much plus i read there antenna is junk. so just go a indoor anteena to try first to see if you can pick anything up.

Can anyone recommend an antenna to try? Here are the station listings from AntennaWeb:

* yellow - uhf WATM-DT 23.1 ABC ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 24
green - vhf WTAJ 10 CBS ALTOONA PA 350° 7.4 10
lt green - uhf WATM 23 ABC ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 23
* red - uhf WTAJ-DT 10.1 CBS ALTOONA PA 350° 7.4 32
blue - uhf W63AJ 63 FOX ALTOONA PA 351° 7.6 63
blue - uhf W57BM 57 FOX ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 57
violet - vhf WWCP 8 FOX JOHNSTOWN PA 254° 44.5 8
violet - vhf WJAC 6 NBC JOHNSTOWN PA 268° 31.7 6

I'm willing to mount something outside if thats what it takes ( I live in a single story with no attic).

Thanks again for everyone's help!
paguy05's Avatar paguy05
03:52 PM Liked: 10
post #191 of 3356
12-18-2005 | Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbooty View Post

Can anyone recommend an antenna to try? Here are the station listings from AntennaWeb:

* yellow - uhf WATM-DT 23.1 ABC ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 24
green - vhf WTAJ 10 CBS ALTOONA PA 350° 7.4 10
lt green - uhf WATM 23 ABC ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 23
* red - uhf WTAJ-DT 10.1 CBS ALTOONA PA 350° 7.4 32
blue - uhf W63AJ 63 FOX ALTOONA PA 351° 7.6 63
blue - uhf W57BM 57 FOX ALTOONA PA 349° 7.5 57
violet - vhf WWCP 8 FOX JOHNSTOWN PA 254° 44.5 8
violet - vhf WJAC 6 NBC JOHNSTOWN PA 268° 31.7 6

I'm willing to mount something outside if thats what it takes ( I live in a single story with no attic).

Thanks again for everyone's help!

get a channel master from here antennasdirect a db4 model or a db2 model should do you good.
mattbooty's Avatar mattbooty
06:46 PM Liked: 10
post #192 of 3356
12-18-2005 | Posts: 76
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by paguy05 View Post

get a channel master from here antennasdirect a db4 model or a db2 model should do you good.

Great! I called DirecTV today and they are coming out Wednesday to hook everything up (minus the OTA antenna). I'll put in an order this week for the db4 and see what I can get!

Thanks again to everyone who helped out!
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
06:00 AM Liked: 10
post #193 of 3356
12-19-2005 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
Does anyone know if local HD channels are included in Expanded Basic Cable if your TV has an HD tuner (or should they be).

With the recent "upgrade" of Adelphia service for State College, I went through the painfull and long (1 hour plus) chore of scanning the cable signal for digital channels. My TV "found" over 200 plus digital stations. This broke down to about half music stations, and the other half as filler channels that had no signal.

I was able to find, recieve and display PBS HD at (I am guessing the translated channel of) 112.3. I was not able to find WJAC HD (NBC).

The cable listing in yesterday's paper show that at channel 703 there is PBS-HD and at 706 there is NBC-HD, however when I try to tune these in I do not get a signal (I tried 703 and 703.1, 703.3). I do believe however that my TV translated the 703 channel to 112.3.

Do I need a cable card to get these HD stations. Was I just lucky to be able to get PBS-HD without the cable card? Should I be able to get NBC-HD without the cable card.

I am not really interested (right now) in getting other stations in HD but would like to get NBC in HD via cable if this is supposed to be free. I do not want any of aldephia Digital Stuff or their other overpriced HD package.

Any thoughts etc. would be appreciated. Thanks.
slykens's Avatar slykens
07:52 AM Liked: 10
post #194 of 3356
12-19-2005 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
Both WPSU-DT and WJAC-DT *should* be available in the clear. You're right that other than the music channels everything else in encrypted and would need a cable card to receive.

Unfortunately, someone at Adelphia didn't get the memo and WJAC-DT is encrypted. I haven't made a stink about it yet, its not a big deal to me at this point, but you should give them a call and demand to know why it is encrypted, against FCC regs.

The 700 channel numbers are simply mappings Adelphia's cable boxes use, they have no meaning outside of that context. Your receiving WPSU-DT as 112.3 means you're receiving it on RF channel 112 and it is the program stream your tuner maps as 3.

My QAM256 tuner card for PC last night mapped WPSU as 111.5, so it varies based on software implementation.

The upside is that the analog channels look fantastic on my old Trinitron since the upgrade. I know, who wants to watch analog any more?
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
10:26 AM Liked: 10
post #195 of 3356
12-19-2005 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

Unfortunately, someone at Adelphia didn't get the memo and WJAC-DT is encrypted. I haven't made a stink about it yet, its not a big deal to me at this point, but you should give them a call and demand to know why it is encrypted, against FCC regs.

I called Adelphia today. The customer rep told me that WJAC-DT should not be encrypted and this should be available free and clear. They are taking a look into this, but I have no idea when/if this will be resolved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

My QAM256 tuner card for PC last night mapped WPSU as 111.5, so it varies based on software implementation.


I took another look and WPSU-HD is mapped as 111.3 on my TV
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
06:40 AM Liked: 10
post #196 of 3356
12-21-2005 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

Unfortunately, someone at Adelphia didn't get the memo and WJAC-DT is encrypted. I haven't made a stink about it yet, its not a big deal to me at this point, but you should give them a call and demand to know why it is encrypted, against FCC regs.


Slykens or someone else...

Can you point me to where this regulation is (or an article that refers to it). I am in communication with Adelphia at present and would like to have some reference to fall back on as to whether they are required to carry an unscrambled local HDTV signal or not.

Thanks in advance!
slykens's Avatar slykens
08:32 AM Liked: 10
post #197 of 3356
12-21-2005 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkydink View Post

Can you point me to where this regulation is (or an article that refers to it). I am in communication with Adelphia at present and would like to have some reference to fall back on as to whether they are required to carry an unscrambled local HDTV signal or not.

Best I can find is this Report and Order: FCC R&O 01-22. It looks like it is required unless the cable company meets one of the four statutory definitions of being in a competitive market, which I think every single cable company in the country could as Dish and DirecTV are competitors. Search this document on "basic tier" for more information.

I think the proper way to frame it would be to suggest that as the local channels are carried in accordance with sections 614 and 615 of the Communications Act of 1934 and section 623(b)(7) requires any channel carried by way of those sections be carried on a basic tier.

Looks like I got fooled. It is an FCC reg but it doesn't appear to be hard and fast or clear cut. Sorry. :/

While you're beating someone up there can you ask them when they plan to add WWCP-DT? My information seems to indicate that the signal is available to them. I'd like to see 24 in HD next month.
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
03:36 AM Liked: 10
post #198 of 3356
12-22-2005 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
I once again spoke to an Adelphia Cable representative, this time a local one. He told me that I was correct that both WPSU-HD (WPSX) and WJAC-HD should be in the clear (non encoded) on their system. He explained to me that he and others thought that WJAC was, but after my previous phone call they checked and found out it was encrypted.

He told me they are looking into how/why it is currently encrypted, but, by next week it should be in the clear and able to be recieved by anyone with an HD reciever and Adelphia cable. Below are the channels that the "local" HD signals will be on via adelphia.

84.2 - WJAC-HD (NBC)
111.3 - WPSU-HD (PBS)


I also asked about WWCP (and WATM) and he told me that these are currently not in HD and that when they became HD they would also be put on thier system without encryption. He was unaware of any special direct link to WWCP to get thier HD signal.

FYI - and Merry Christmas
slykens's Avatar slykens
09:01 AM Liked: 10
post #199 of 3356
12-22-2005 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
Grrr. I need to find someone at the local office I can talk to who has a clue.

It was explained to me that during last year's Superbowl that Atlantic Broadband picked up WWCP-DT at the station and interconnected with Adelphia's PONY ring to make the signal available to Adelphia subs. We did not get it in State College because at that point there was a missing link at Central City (unsure of if its the one in Centre or Somerset counties).

If the link between Atlantic Broadband and Adelphia still exists then WWCP-DT should be available to Adelphia and its then only a matter of transporting to our headend.
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
10:09 AM Liked: 10
post #200 of 3356
12-22-2005 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkydink View Post

He told me they are looking into how/why it is currently encrypted, but, by next week it should be in the clear and able to be recieved by anyone with an HD reciever and Adelphia cable. Below are the channels that the "local" HD signals will be on via adelphia.

84.2 - WJAC-HD (NBC)
111.3 - WPSU-HD (PBS)



I just turn on the TV over lunch and at WJAC is now being broadcast unencrypted on 84.2 via Adelphia Cable in State College.
tinyiota's Avatar tinyiota
10:44 AM Liked: 10
post #201 of 3356
01-01-2006 | Posts: 229
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

Grrr. I need to find someone at the local office I can talk to who has a clue.

It was explained to me that during last year's Superbowl that Atlantic Broadband picked up WWCP-DT at the station and interconnected with Adelphia's PONY ring to make the signal available to Adelphia subs. We did not get it in State College because at that point there was a missing link at Central City (unsure of if its the one in Centre or Somerset counties).

If the link between Atlantic Broadband and Adelphia still exists then WWCP-DT should be available to Adelphia and its then only a matter of transporting to our headend.

PONY is a TelCove asset. I presume Adelphia had access to it because of the intertwined history of Adelphia and the Allegheny Hyperion/Hyperion/Adelphia Business/TelCove construct.

With the pending sale of the cable system to Comcast and the fact that TelCove was spun off from Adelphia some time ago, I would speculate that access to the PONY ring is something that will have to be renegotiated by Comcast. Presumably there will be added costs over the old connection agreement, if there even were costs when Adelphia was the parent of both entities..

You have to figure that if that speculation is true then Comcast also has to be considering the cost of running their own fiber vs the costs of connecting to the PONY ring.. It may be cheaper in the long run for them to have their own fiber.

Plus, all of this probably can't officially happen until after the sale of the Adelphia assets completes.. Anyone know when the official day is?
jjg247's Avatar jjg247
10:26 PM Liked: 10
post #202 of 3356
01-01-2006 | Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkydink View Post

I just turn on the TV over lunch and at WJAC is now being broadcast unencrypted on 84.2 via Adelphia Cable in State College.

I don't have an OTA transmitter, but I do have HD service from Adelphia. DO you know when will I be able to receive this channel? Isn't WJAC the local ABC affilaite? If so I hope I will get it before the 3rd.
tinyiota's Avatar tinyiota
01:12 AM Liked: 10
post #203 of 3356
01-02-2006 | Posts: 229
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjg247 View Post

I don't have an OTA transmitter, but I do have HD service from Adelphia. DO you know when will I be able to receive this channel? Isn't WJAC the local ABC affilaite? If so I hope I will get it before the 3rd.

WJAC is NBC, not ABC.
pulpdog's Avatar pulpdog
08:39 AM Liked: 10
post #204 of 3356
01-09-2006 | Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2005
Fortunately I have been granted waivers for ABC/FOX and CBS. WJAC has denied me however. I have previously written the GM, and am looking for someone better to contact. Any suggestions? I refuse to add cable for 1 HD local. So, if anyone has any suggestions for contact people at WJAC, I would appreciate the information.

Thanks.
tinyiota's Avatar tinyiota
03:17 PM Liked: 10
post #205 of 3356
01-09-2006 | Posts: 229
Joined: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulpdog View Post

Fortunately I have been granted waivers for ABC/FOX and CBS. WJAC has denied me however. I have previously written the GM, and am looking for someone better to contact. Any suggestions? I refuse to add cable for 1 HD local. So, if anyone has any suggestions for contact people at WJAC, I would appreciate the information.

Where do you live? It's likely that you can pick up WJAC-HD via a decent off-air antenna.
uefigs139's Avatar uefigs139
05:01 PM Liked: 10
post #206 of 3356
01-09-2006 | Posts: 34
Joined: Jan 2006
has anyone heard anything more about WATM and the Super Bowl in HD?
pulpdog's Avatar pulpdog
06:03 AM Liked: 10
post #207 of 3356
01-10-2006 | Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyiota View Post

Where do you live? It's likely that you can pick up WJAC-HD via a decent off-air antenna.

-JEff

I am in State College. Before the waivers came through for ABC/FOX I went to purchase an antenna, but was advised by the sales rep that it wasn't worth the trouble.....they assured my I would not get a signal. I may try anyway if you think it's worth it.
slykens's Avatar slykens
08:24 AM Liked: 10
post #208 of 3356
01-10-2006 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
There's a chance you can get WJAC-DT off air in State College.

I have a cheap $20 Radio Shack UHF antenna and a Channel Master 7777 preamp that picks it up fine most of the time. It's at the top of a 10' mast on my roof.

My father has an 8-bay Channel Master UHF five miles closer to WJAC than I but he just doesn't seem to get a clean enough signal for his receiver.

If you want a better antenna, I have a Triax Unix 100A UHF antenna I'm interested in selling. Actually I have a pair... This antenna is tuned for UHF 14-36 or so and should give you about 17 dB gain at channel 34. Combined with the proper preamp, and assuming you're not blocked by geographical features, it should work fine.
slykens's Avatar slykens
08:28 AM Liked: 10
post #209 of 3356
01-10-2006 | Posts: 378
Joined: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by uefigs139 View Post

has anyone heard anything more about WATM and the Super Bowl in HD?

As of early last month WATM planned to have the HD equipment in place to push HD out to cable but no OTA yet.

What that means in terms of the cablecos actually picking it up is a different story.

As noted before, they just don't want to drop the $250k it will take to put in the STLs for HD right now.
winkydink's Avatar winkydink
11:17 AM Liked: 10
post #210 of 3356
01-10-2006 | Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by slykens View Post

There's a chance you can get WJAC-DT off air in State College.

I have a cheap $20 Radio Shack UHF antenna and a Channel Master 7777 preamp that picks it up fine most of the time. It's at the top of a 10' mast on my roof.

My father has an 8-bay Channel Master UHF five miles closer to WJAC than I but he just doesn't seem to get a clean enough signal for his receiver.

If you want a better antenna, I have a Triax Unix 100A UHF antenna I'm interested in selling. Actually I have a pair... This antenna is tuned for UHF 14-36 or so and should give you about 17 dB gain at channel 34. Combined with the proper preamp, and assuming you're not blocked by geographical features, it should work fine.


As Slykens stated location is everything. I believe he is located over in/near Lemont.

I am in State College (Green Tree section of town), and I can ALMOST NEVER get WJAC-DT (less that 0.001 %). I have a Channel Master 7777 preamp (signal booster) with a Radio Shack Yagi and a rotor. Yet with this same setup I have been receiving WNEP-HD (49.3, 49.4) SOLID from Wilkes Barre-Scranton. I am hoping that the good reception keeps up for at least another month as it would be great to have the Super Bowl in HD.

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