Johnstown, PA - HDTV - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 3336 Old 06-14-2004, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Central Pennsylvania Digital TV Status (February 11, 2009)

This covers State College, Altoona, Johnstown, and other communities in DMA #98 with a focus on State College.

Contributors: tinyiota, PA_MainyYak, winkydink, golferadam

Where to find HD:

Comcast in State College and surrounding areas offers 28 (or more) HD channels. As of mid February 2009 all broadcast networks are available.

D&E offers an HD package as well including all locals.

Atlantic Broadband offers around 20 channels including all five networks.

(this section is poor at the moment as the nice write up was lost in AVS' db crash... it will be updated with something better soon)



Courtesy of tinyiota:

DirecTV delivers our market's local channels WPSU, WJAC, WTAJ, WWCP and WATM, along with the Pittsburgh CW affiliate WPCW. These channels are available either from the 72.5 Ku band orbital location, which requires a 2nd "small" dish pointed almost due south, or from their Ka band satellites, which requires both an MP4 capable receiver and a newer Ka band dish. It is expected that at some point, the locals on the 72.5 satellite will be phased out and a Ka band dish and receiver will be required for locals in our market.

There is presently no information on when(if) WPSU or WPCW will be available in HD, nor is there any information available on if or when WHVL might be carried.



Commentary:

As of February 23, 2007, all major networks are passing HD over the air in our market, however, not all parts of the market can receive all networks.

Customers of Atlantic Broadband in Altoona and Johnstown can receive all major networks in HD via cable.

Comcast customers in State College and surrounding areas are missing CBS in HD at this time as Comcast has not yet come to agreement with Nexstar for retransmission of WTAJ's high definition service and therefore only provides PBS, NBC, FOX, and ABC in HD. (WTAJ is rumored to come to Comcast on 1/26/09)

D&E Communications in State College offers WJAC, WATM , WPSU and WTAJ in HD and a full HD package.


Status:


WPSU-DT (Analog 3, Digital 15) PBS - Clearfield, PA (Post-transition: 15)

Subchannels: 3.1 PBS-HD, 3.2 WPSU-TV, 3.3 WPSU "Create"

FCC Service Contours: Analog (3) Digital (15)

WPSU, the PBS affiliate owned and operated by the Pennsylvania State University is arguably doing more with DTV than many other stations in the country. WPSU-DT is testing a Single Frequency Network wherein the main transmitter in Clearfield is supplemented by on-channel boosters, which are nearly synchronized with the main transmitter, in State College, Altoona, and Johnstown. This ensures that WPSU-DT can/will be received with even the simplest antenna configuration in each of the major communities of our market. Current WPSX-DT is operating its main transmitter at 537 kW and its on-channel booster in State College at 50 kW, sufficient to provide a city-grade signal in and around State College. WPSU-DT is currently passing the PBS HD Channel. I suggest using a directional antenna as it is possible in areas outside the intended center of the booster's directional beam to receive both signals and have what appears to be a bad multipath problem. For those looking, the on-channel booster is on Pine Grove Mountain.

Plans for deployment of on-channel boosters to Altoona and Johnstown are on hold at this time.


WJAC-DT (Analog 6, Digital 34) NBC - Johnstown, PA (Post-transition: 34)

Subchannels: 6.1 NBC-HD, 6.2 NBC Weather Plus, 6.3 WJAC-TV

State College Translator: Analog 7, Digital 42

FCC Service Contours: Analog (6) Digital (34) Analog Translator (7) Digital Translator (42)

WJAC-DT was first on the air in the market with their digital signal and they passed HD from network immediately. WJAC-DT is transmitting at 1 MW from Laurel Mountain, approximately 65 miles from downtown State College. WJAC also passes DD5.1 from network.

WJAC-DT can be received in State College, however many people have had trouble depending on their exact location. WJAC's channel 42 digital translator is online now and provides a great signal in the area.


WATM-DT (Former Analog 23, Digital 24) ABC - Altoona, PA

Subchannels: 23.1 ABC-HD, 23.2 WATM-TV, 23.3 WWCP-TV

FCC Service Contours: Analog (23) (Off air as of 2/17/2009) Digital (24)

WATM-DT is ABC in HD and over the air. The major area cablecos all carry WATM in HD as well. This channel also includes a FOX SD subchannel.


WWCP-DT (Former Analog 8, Digital 8) FOX - Johnstown, PA

State College Translator: Analog 59, Proposed Digital 17

Subchannels: 8.1 FOX-HD, 8.2 WATM-TV

Translators and FCC Service Contours: Analog (8) (Off air as of 2/17/2009)Digital (8) State College Analog (59) State College Digital (17)

WWCP-DT began passing FOX in HD on or around 2/23/07. As this is fed from the FOX splicer it is expected that the audio stream is DD 5.1 during network programming.


WTAJ-DT (Analog 10, Digital 32) CBS - Altoona, PA (Post-transition: 32)

Subchannels: 10.1 CBS-HD

FCC Service Contours: Analog (10) Digital (32)

WTAJ began passing HD and DD5.1 OTA on January 26, 2007. They currently have no plans for subchannels so it looks like we'll see full 19+ Mbps 1080i. While it took a long time to come it appears to be worth it! The picture is spectacular, however, there have been some problems with the DD audio mix.


WHVL (Analog 29, Digital 27) MyNetworkTV - State College, PA (Post-transition: 27)

FCC Service Contours: Analog (29) Digital (27)

WHVL was a long neglected LP broadcasting from Rattlesnake Mountain to the north of State College. In August of 2007 this station was relaunched as the market's MyNetworkTV affiliate. A poster in this thread, 75ohms, has kept us up to date with information regarding WHVL... Rumor is that as of mid February 2009 that WHVL is broadcasting a test signal including its intended final configuration of 29-1 720p MyNTV, 29-2 480i America One.


WKBS-DT (Analog 47, Digital 46) Cornerstone - Altoona, PA (Post-transition: 46)

Subchannels: 47.1 WKBS-DT

FCC Service Contours: Analog (47) Digital (46) STA

As I am generally uninterested in television religion I don't know anything more than the FCC knows about this station. They are currently transmitting with 6.1 kW and can be received in State College using an 8-bay or high gain yagi. Their CP is for 50 kW.


WNEP (Translators in State College on 36, 39) ABC - Wilkes-Barre, PA

FCC Service Contours: Analog (36) Analog (39) Digital Contours Not Yet Available

WNEP has had translators in State College for as long as I can remember. Before WATM become our ABC affiliate in the 80's, WNEP provided ABC service to the State College area (together with WHTM of Harrisburg).

WNEP has translators all over eastern Pennsylvania from Allentown northward and westward to State College.

On March 31, 2006, the FCC received flash-cut applications for both the channel 36 and 39 translators. This would provide State College with two (three) sources of ABC in HD.


Miscellaneous

W13BY, what appears to be a translator for WKBS or the same network WKBS is affiliated with, also has applied for a low-power DTV license for channel 12.

FCC Service Contours: W13BY Proposed LD 12



Reception of anything from Harrisburg is unlikely as stations are either assigned the same freqeuncy as a station in DMA 98 or a translator in the State College area or are more than 80 miles away. The only station on a channel not used in the State College area is WHP-DT on channel 4, at about 59 miles, but WPSU's analog on channel 3 seems to throw off quite a bit of adjacent channel interference and makes it impossible to receive.



Just how local are our "local" stations

I've added this section based on a post by pa_maniyyak that details the ownership of our local broadcast stations.

WJAC is owned by Cox Enterprises, Inc, one of the major players in media, and based in Atlanta. The NBC affiliate is one of 15 Cox TV stations in medium and large markets. The company also owns radio stations, newspapers, a huge cable company, and other media interests.

WTAJ has just recently been purchased by Nexstar Broadcasting, based in the Dallas area, making our local CBS affiliate part of a chain of 32 small and medium market owned stations (along with another 17 stations under operating agreements.)

WWCP FOX8 is owned by Peak Media of Pennsylvania, which in turn, is owned by a holding company based in Tampa that owns ten other small market TV stations and has minority interest in several others.

WATM ABC23 is operated by FOX8, but is owned by Palm Television, L.P., which is controlled by CBIZ Business Solutions of St. Louis, Inc.

WKBS is the religious station in Altoona, operated by Cornerstone Television, Inc, based in a rather well equipped facility near Monroeville, PA, distributing programming to religious stations around the world. While that may be construed as “local”, it is also a rather large enterprise. The company also operates WPCB-TV in Greensburg as well as several low power translator stations scatted across western Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Harrisburg, PA. No HD for them.

WPSU is owned and operated by the Pennsylvania State University.

(added by slykens 11/24/2007)

WHVL is owned by Channel Communications out of Lewistown
slykens is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 3336 Old 06-15-2004, 07:04 PM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the thorough update on the Altoona-Johnstown DMA. I just moved (about 3 1/2 weeks ago) to State College and am still waiting to get a DirecTV dish setup. It is set for install this Thursday. At this time I'll fire up my HDTivo (HR10-250) and see if I can pickup any of the OTA Digital stations with a pair of rabbit ears. It sounds like I should be able to get the PBS station but that may be it. I'm in a town home so putting up an outdoor antenna of any size is unlikely.

I'm still waiting to hear what kind of setup will be necessary if DirecTV puts the Altoona-Johnstown DMA on a satellite at 72.5 degrees. I told the local dealer (Paul & Tony's) about the news of the stations going up at the new satellite location (new for DirecTV) and they hadn't heard any news. Perhaps I could get waivers to pickup the distant network feeds and at least get the distant CBS HD feed from NYC.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #3 of 3336 Old 06-15-2004, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
According to the guys from WPSX you should be able to get it with a simple indoor antenna and I tend to think that is accurate. That's what the on-channel booster is all about, but you won't get *anything* else until next spring on an indoor antenna and then only WATM unless top 100 maximization is required.

Paul and Tony's is a good place to go. I've bought a lot of stuff from them and recommend them to others but, as always, do your research first.

You want to speak with Kathy Smith at WTAJ about getting the CBS-HD feed from New York. I haven't pushed the issue but she sounded receptive to giving me a waiver for CBS-HD even though I have access to both their analog and digital signals over the air.
slykens is offline  
post #4 of 3336 Old 06-15-2004, 09:47 PM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by slykens
You want to speak with Kathy Smith at WTAJ about getting the CBS-HD feed from New York. I haven't pushed the issue but she sounded receptive to giving me a waiver for CBS-HD even though I have access to both their analog and digital signals over the air.

She mentioned in an email that I should apply for a waiver to get the CBS HD feed from NYC. Once I get the dish installed, I'll ask DirecTV to submit the paperwork for waivers from all the networks. Never hurts to ask, just in case DirecTV puts up a NBC or ABC HD feed as well this year.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #5 of 3336 Old 06-21-2004, 12:50 PM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Paul & Tony's came out to install the dish and found that I can only receive the 101 satellite at my location. The 110 and 119 satellites are blocked by a tree. With all the HD programming now on 110 and 119 I don't have any way to receive HDTV programming from DirecTV. With no HDTV and the Altoona-Johnstown locals likely going on a satellite at 72.5 degrees, it just wasn't worth it to pay for the install.

I signed up with Adelphia cable TV (yes, I held my nose when I placed the order). I just ordered a standalone Tivo box and will be selling my HD Tivo box in the next week. Hopefully Adelphia will have some HDTV programming by next spring.

I had HDTV for 4 weeks and I loved it. Unfortunately, it may be another two years before I get HDTV again.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #6 of 3336 Old 06-21-2004, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Did you buy the townhouse or are you renting?

If you bought it there is a good chance you could put the satellite antenna on the roof under federal law. It might not be perfect but you'll get at least what D* has to offer.

Sorry about your situaiton. Have you tried to receive WPSX-DT with just and indoor antenna?
slykens is offline  
post #7 of 3336 Old 06-21-2004, 02:24 PM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We bought the town home. The dicey part of the FCC law is that the roof and exterior of the town homes are still considered community property and the FCC rule doesn't allow the town home owner to go through community property without the approval of the association.

The time and expense of putting a dish on the roof (might clear the trees but it would be a gamble to get the 119 satellite) just isn't worth it for what is now a little less than 2 years. In hindsight I should have found out before we made an offer but I'm not sure it would have been such a problem to keep us from buying it.

I haven't tried to pick-up WPSX OTA. I need to connect up the HD Tivo and watch some recorded shows before I try to sell it on eBay. My father-in-law just switched from Dish to DirecTV and also got a HDTV this spring. I might lend the HD Tivo to him with the understanding that I get it back when we move.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #8 of 3336 Old 09-15-2004, 09:04 AM
Moderator
 
CPanther95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 23,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Official Johnstown-Altoona, PA DMA thread.
CPanther95 is offline  
post #9 of 3336 Old 09-16-2004, 09:25 AM
Newbie
 
lionsroar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The above research is appriciated.

It is so frustrating have a great HD setup and not being able to watch football on Fox or ABC in HD.

I have Dish Network, and Kathy Smith was great about approving me for CBSHD distant network feed.
lionsroar is offline  
post #10 of 3336 Old 09-17-2004, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Somewhat of an update for those interested.

I've spoken with Kathy Smith at WTAJ and exchanged email with her several times. She is a great person to talk with, very personable and she has empathy for our situation.

With the recent Big 4/Top 100 maximization order it is *very* likely that WTAJ will comply with maximization but I don't know if they plan to do HD at the same time. I think they may be packaging it that way to their owners so we could get lucky and have everything at full power and HD by next June in this market.

While I am still somewhat frustrated with the owners of WTAJ, Ms. Smith has been nothing but friendly, kind, and understanding. She had no trouble with providing me a CBS-HD waiver on DirecTV and it was activated yesterday for me.

If you're in the DMA and looking for CBS-HD, a kind phone call to WTAJ may very well get you a CBS-HD waiver until WTAJ is passing HD in our market.
slykens is offline  
post #11 of 3336 Old 09-17-2004, 09:34 AM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'd agree 100% about the comments about Kathy Smith and about WTAJ. She has been the best in the area at providing information about WTAJ's plans and problems with providing a HDTV signal OTA. The latest email I received from her this morning states that WTAJ-DT should meet the 1 July 2005 deadline and be broadcasting at full power in HD OTA.

She is aware of the picture problems for WTAJ that exist in State College from Adelphia and is trying to get that improved. However, she noted that WTAJ has not negotiated any HDTV retransmission agreement with Adelphia. This matches what I heard from WPSX that they have had no negotiations with Adelphia to broadcast their HDTV PBS feed to Adelphia's cable subscribers.

I asked her about getting an HDTV CBS signal in time for the 2005 Masters (early April) which is nearly 3 months before the 1 July 05 deadline from the FCC but I haven't gotten a reply.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #12 of 3336 Old 09-28-2004, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know this was really the only thread with information about DMA 96 and as Johnstown was the largest city in the DMA the thread got retitled. But since *I* started it I'll put my State College information in here.

Adelphia is now providing HD service on their State College headend. They have:

Code:
706     WJAC-DT (NBC) Johnstown
750     HBO-HD
751     Showtime-HD
752     Starz-HD
753     Cinemax-HD
770     HDnet
771     HDnet Movies
772     ESPN-HD
It's a start. In talking to the tech he explained that our system is only a 550 MHz system! I thought we were upgraded to 800 MHz a long time ago but that is not the case. He said that they are working on rebuilding the system for 750 MHz with an easy upgrade to 1 GHz in the future. As Adelphia is under control of the bankruptcy court no one really knows when this upgrade will be complete. If Adelphia is bought out I would expect the upgrade to be pushed through quickly or the same if Adelphia emerges from bankruptcy intact.

With an additional 200 MHz of bandwidth and using QAM256 encoding that's 1.3 Gbps of additional bandwidth, or enough to add more than 65 full ATSC bitrate HD channels. An upgrade to 1 GHz would add almost 3 Gbps of bandwidth using QAM256! I'm not suggesting that will happen but the fact that it is a possibility is great news for us HD starved people in State College. With DirecTV subscribers licking their chops in anticipation of the Spaceway launch and talk of 150 national HD networks and nationwide HD LIL it's nice to know that we will likely have a competitive option in State College.

I certainly don't want to sound like an Adelphia cheerleader, they are still not a great company, but they seem to be working on getting better and I think they deserve some recognition for it. Knowing now that we only have a 550 MHz system I am impressed with what they've managed to put on the wire. One more plug for Adelphia, it turns out their top tier package is less expensive than DirecTV's even before accounting for additional receivers. It was surprising to me as Adelphia is wholly uncompetitive on the basic digital package.

Due to my frustration with DirecTV I also sound very favorable to Adelphia, perhaps when the honeymoon is over (both literally and figuratively) I may feel a bit different.
slykens is offline  
post #13 of 3336 Old 09-28-2004, 10:32 AM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I got the Adelphia HD service installed on Monday, September 20th, and have the NBC-HD (WJAC-DT), HDNet, HDNet Movies and ESPN-HD service. Adelphia is using the Motorola 6200 STB and is charging $7.95/month (up from $3.95/month for a normal STB).

I asked the installer about HD STB with recording (the Motorola 6208) but he said they didn't get those and wasn't sure when/if they would. HD is great (even four channels) but it is hard to go back to watching TV exactly when it is shown after having Tivo for over three years.

Hopefully Tivo will go forward with their HD Tivo box using an Open Cable standard. Frankly the Tivo interface blows away anything I've seen from a Cable Company and I'd pay the cost to get Tivo service with HD if Adelphia could provide the HD programming.

In any case, Adelphia moved up a notch by providing HD service to State College while being bankrupt and in the process of being sold. Now all we need is for the CBS, ABC and Fox affiliates in our DMA to start broadcasing in HDTV which probably won't happen until next summer.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #14 of 3336 Old 09-28-2004, 01:42 PM
Member
 
Steve911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bellefonte, PA
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just got "hooked up" with HDTV from Adelphia this morning. First impressions of HDNet on my Toshiba RPTV was WOW! Awesome picture! Unfortunately, I was expecting the local ABC, NBC, and CBS affiliates all to have HDTV signals, but alas, only NBC. I typically watch much more on CBS (primetime) and ABC (sports), but oh well, it's a start. And kudos to the Adelphia installer -- he was on time and very knowledgeable on the high def subject. Very nice for a change.
Steve911 is offline  
post #15 of 3336 Old 09-29-2004, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Steve911
Unfortunately, I was expecting the local ABC, NBC, and CBS affiliates all to have HDTV signals, but alas, only NBC.

Steve, as posted above, I think it will be late next spring before everyone else will be in HD in our market. I don't know if Adelphia plans to carry them as soon as they go HD, they're missing WPSX-DT right now so I would have to assume they are out of capacity.

The best thing to hope for would be for the system rebuild to be completed soon so the capacity exists and for our CBS, ABC, and FOX affiliates to go HD when they maximize next year.

In case you have not, please take a moment and just drop a quick email to the CBS, ABC, and FOX stations letting them know you're looking for HD from them. I don't think the stations realize how many HD capable sets are out there, especially because so many people think that all their HD capable set is good for it watching DVDs!
slykens is offline  
post #16 of 3336 Old 09-30-2004, 01:03 PM
Member
 
Steve911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bellefonte, PA
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Slykens, I have been in contact with WNEP (ABC) and WTAJ (CBS) recently via email. I have not heard back from WPSX yet.

WNEP (Stuart Wilson) responded that they currently have plans to replace their State College analog translators with HDTV translators. However, he did not have a timetable for the conversion, nor did he comment on the availability of the high def signal via Adelphia.

WTAJ (Kathy Smith) responded that they plan to be full power high def by July 1, 2005. They are currently in the process of ordering the transmitter, antenna, etc. Kathy also stated that their Cheif Engineer has had conversations with Adelphia regarding the HD turnover. She expects we will have WTAJ's HDTV signal available through Adelphia soon after the turnover.

Steve
Steve911 is offline  
post #17 of 3336 Old 10-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Member
 
mainecooncat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lebanon, OH
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is anyone else losing sound on WJAC-DT (NBC) through the new Adelphia HDTV service. I'm guessing it has been out at least 6 times that I've checked it over the last two weeks since I've had the HDTV service. It does seem to get fixed within a few hours but I'm wondering if this is a problem at WJAC or with Adelphia (or with my STB)?

A little HDTV is better than no HDTV in State College.
mainecooncat is offline  
post #18 of 3336 Old 10-11-2004, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mainecooncat
Is anyone else losing sound on WJAC-DT (NBC) through the new Adelphia HDTV service. I'm guessing it has been out at least 6 times that I've checked it over the last two weeks since I've had the HDTV service. It does seem to get fixed within a few hours but I'm wondering if this is a problem at WJAC or with Adelphia (or with my STB)?

Yes, this is a known problem by Adelphia. As much as I have disliked Adelphia in the past my recent experiences with the people in the local office has been nothing but impressive and based on those experiences and my recent problems with DirecTV I think I may be a convert.

I had sent email to a local CSR who forwarded the email to their engineer who responded with a very detailed technical explanation. The problem appears to be that WJAC-DT is using a not-exactly-standard way of encoding their audio that the STB can't deal with at times. Adelphia has determined this by using an ASI stream analyzer on the output from the ATSC receiver in Phillipsburg that is used to receive WJAC-DT OTA. I don't know when/if Adelphia plans to move to a fiber feed from WJAC, Adelphia gets WJAC-TV from their NTSC channel 7 translator here in State College, but that wouldn't matter anyway.

My understanding is that WJAC-DT's audio is strange in comparison with that from other broadcasters and the other STBs (than the DCT6200) can handle this audio without a problem. Their engineer states that Motorola, Adelphia, and WJAC-DT are working on a solution.

I've never seen a problem decoding the audio from WJAC using anything I have on linux or in hardware so I've got no idea what the problem might be beyond what has been expressed to me.

My suggesting was that WJAC-DT just implement a DD 5.1 encoder and solve the problem that way.

As for WNEP, we will have HD from WATM long before WNEP can get their translators moved to digital. I don't believe the FCC will even accept flash-cut applications on translators for at least another two years, but I might be wrong about that. Further to that, it wouldn't do us any good to get WNEP in HD on cable as WNEP is blacked out during ABC network programming due to must-carry rules involving WATM. Now, WNEP in HD OTA would be nice but I don't think we'll see it before WATM is at full power and in HD anyway. WTAJ and WATM at 1 MW from ~30 miles away should be pretty easy to receive even in our area, even if they aren't on Adelphia right away.

Things are looking up, I would expect that in about six months we might start to see some testing from the local laggards in advance of the July 1 date.
slykens is offline  
post #19 of 3336 Old 10-12-2004, 02:56 PM
Member
 
Steve911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bellefonte, PA
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
slykens, thanks for the update. As mainecooncat posted, a little HDTV is better than no HDTV in State College. And I agree. Although NBC-HD audio dies out here and there, I think I can deal with it for awhile longer.

One question though: Do you know why ESPN-HD (specifically, football) is not broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital audio? It seems to only comes through as 2.0DD. I watched a college football game on HDNet in 5.1DD and was blown away by the difference.
Steve911 is offline  
post #20 of 3336 Old 10-13-2004, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by Steve911
Do you know why ESPN-HD (specifically, football) is not broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital audio? It seems to only comes through as 2.0DD. I watched a college football game on HDNet in 5.1DD and was blown away by the difference.

Yes. ESPN had signed an agreement with SRS Labs to use SRS Circle Surround quite some time ago. If your audio decoder will decode SRS then you will have an experience much like DD5.1. If not use Pro Logic decoding for "as-good-as-it-gets" decoding.

There have been many threads about it in the HD Programming Forum.

There is much speculation but the last I saw is that it is likely ESPN will go to DD5.1 when their contract with SRS expires. No one knows for sure though. It certainly is not an Adelphia issue as the transport stream is encoded in Bristol, CT by ESPN. I think Adelphia does do some rate shaping but doesn't muck with the audio.
slykens is offline  
post #21 of 3336 Old 12-30-2004, 12:44 PM
Senior Member
 
tinyiota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by slykens

The best thing to hope for would be for the system rebuild to be completed soon so the capacity exists and for our CBS, ABC, and FOX affiliates to go HD when they maximize next year.

In case you have not, please take a moment and just drop a quick email to the CBS, ABC, and FOX stations letting them know you're looking for HD from them. I don't think the stations realize how many HD capable sets are out there, especially because so many people think that all their HD capable set is good for it watching DVDs!

Blech.. I'm morally opposed to the son-of-the-son-of-TCI. The absoulte last place I'll go for TV is back to Adelphia.

I've been doing research on various antenna options.. Has anyone looked at or played with the Winegard Square Shooter? Thanks to my location, I pretty much have line of sight to Altoona. I'd buy one and test it out but though the FCC says the NBC affilliate is licensed for 1 MW, I don't know if they're actually running at that power level.
tinyiota is offline  
post #22 of 3336 Old 12-31-2004, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
Blech.. I'm morally opposed to the son-of-the-son-of-TCI. The absoulte last place I'll go for TV is back to Adelphia.

I've been doing research on various antenna options.. Has anyone looked at or played with the Winegard Square Shooter? Thanks to my location, I pretty much have line of sight to Altoona. I'd buy one and test it out but though the FCC says the NBC affilliate is licensed for 1 MW, I don't know if they're actually running at that power level.

While it might be hard to swallow purchasing services from Adelphia they made great strides in improving services here over the last year.

They added HD service about three months ago now, and there have been dramatic improvements in the cable internet service since I last had it eighteen months ago.

I'm not a cheerleader for Adelphia but for $111 a month I'm getting *everything* Adelphia has to offer including cable internet and it is now much faster and more stable than ever, excluding the last days of @Home.

I don't know where you are so I can't say how a Square Shooter will do for you.

Also, don't be fooled by the CP listing for the stations in the FCC database. TODAY, WATM is at 2kW on ch 24, WTAJ is at 3.3 kW on ch 32, and WWCP is at 2 kW on ch 29, and NONE of them are passing HD today.

WJAC is the market leader, they're at 250 kW on ch 34 but receiving them in State College takes a small miracle. I can receive WATM and WTAJ without a problem but they're only 480i.

Depending on where you are you might get WPSX but they are running a single frequency network and in certain areas this creates severe multipath. I'm not sure they've got it sorted out yet.

So, if you're in or within a few miles of State College I don't think a Square Shooter will do it all for you. It remains to be seen how WJAC will get into our area once they go to 1 MW, which as far as I know is scheduled to occur in June. Your best bet would be to wait until July if you want to try a SS, by then everyone will be at full power in our market.
slykens is offline  
post #23 of 3336 Old 01-01-2005, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
 
tinyiota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by slykens
While it might be hard to swallow purchasing services from Adelphia they made great strides in improving services here over the last year.

They added HD service about three months ago now, and there have been dramatic improvements in the cable internet service since I last had it eighteen months ago.

I'm not a cheerleader for Adelphia but for $111 a month I'm getting *everything* Adelphia has to offer including cable internet and it is now much faster and more stable than ever, excluding the last days of @Home.



Well.. I've had bad experiences with the Corporation. Plus, I've suffered from their cable modem capacity issues.. It seems I always end up on whichever headend gets maxed out. It's sort of a "sum total" thing.. not ncecessarily any one incident..

I'm hooked on TiVO. I have an HD TiVO now. I've seen the current "digital" STBs and I think i'd rather have a VCR.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have the DirecTV ABC-HD, FOX-HD and NBC-HD feeds, but not, as fate would have it, CBS. Since WeatherWorld was effectively canceled , I have no use for PSX.

Quote:


I don't know where you are so I can't say how a Square Shooter will do for you.

Lemont. I'm far enough up on Monut Nittany that I can pretty much see over all of campus and off to the horizon.

Quote:


Also, don't be fooled by the CP listing for the stations in the FCC database. TODAY, WATM is at 2kW on ch 24, WTAJ is at 3.3 kW on ch 32, and WWCP is at 2 kW on ch 29, and NONE of them are passing HD today.

Yeah.. That's why I'm asking..

Quote:


WJAC is the market leader, they're at 250 kW on ch 34 but receiving them in State College takes a small miracle. I can receive WATM and WTAJ without a problem but they're only 480i.

Depending on where you are you might get WPSX but they are running a single frequency network and in certain areas this creates severe multipath. I'm not sure they've got it sorted out yet.

So, if you're in or within a few miles of State College I don't think a Square Shooter will do it all for you. It remains to be seen how WJAC will get into our area once they go to 1 MW, which as far as I know is scheduled to occur in June. Your best bet would be to wait until July if you want to try a SS, by then everyone will be at full power in our market.

Blech.. Hopefully they'll actually follow through with things..
tinyiota is offline  
post #24 of 3336 Old 01-01-2005, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
Lemont. I'm far enough up on Monut Nittany that I can pretty much see over all of campus and off to the horizon.

I live in Lemont as well, down near the highway, however, from my roof I can see over town as well.

Up until I had Adelphia reconnected I had a pair of Triax Unix 100A antennae on the roof to pull in WJAC-DT and even that was a stretch at times. Adelphia is receiving WJAC-DT in Phillipsburg and transporting it to State College via fiber.

These days I'm just running a simple Radio Shack small Yagi. I'm getting CBS-HD, and ABC-HD from DirecTV now and get WJAC-DT from Adelphia. No luck on FOX-HD but I'm still working on that.

With the small antenna I can pick up WTAJ-DT, WATM-DT, WPSX-DT, WKBS-DT, and I get hints of WJAC-DT.

If you don't want a monstrosity on the roof you'll need to wait until July, hopefully at the latest, to try things out. Otherwise if you like you could try one of the Triax antennae I have here.

Make sure you send email or call all the local stations and tell them you're anxiously awaiting on over-the-air HD signal from them in State College..

And you'd be surprised by the quality of the programming on WPSX-DT, it's the PBS-HD feed and is similar in a lot of ways to Discovery HD.

PM me if you'd like to try one of the larger antennae.

As far as your CBS-HD feed is concerned give Kathy Smith a call at WTAJ and explain your situation and that you'd be more than happy to get it from them if they passed HD. She *may* be able to help you out and is a very very kind woman and a pleasure to talk to.
slykens is offline  
post #25 of 3336 Old 01-01-2005, 11:59 PM
Senior Member
 
tinyiota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by slykens

These days I'm just running a simple Radio Shack small Yagi. I'm getting CBS-HD, and ABC-HD from DirecTV now and get WJAC-DT from Adelphia. No luck on FOX-HD but I'm still working on that.

With the small antenna I can pick up WTAJ-DT, WATM-DT, WPSX-DT, WKBS-DT, and I get hints of WJAC-DT.


In my latest email exchange with her I asked her about a wavier..
In the abstract, I don't want to pay to get channels I can get OTA for free, assuming I can get them OTA.

But, I don't really want the inferior quality of non-HD, either.

What's the RS part number for the yagi? Are you amplifying it?
tinyiota is offline  
post #26 of 3336 Old 01-02-2005, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
But, I don't really want the inferior quality of non-HD, either.

What's the RS part number for the yagi? Are you amplifying it?

If you want HD for now you'll need to stick with satellite feeds. I feel like we're one of the most neglected markets HD wise, certainly in the top 100 markets, but then I remember tiny little markets probably have it worse.

The positive is that it sounds like you've been communicating with the local stations letting them know there's another HD capable set owner looking for HD from them. Kathy Smith once told me she thinks she knows every HD set owner in the market, a representaiton of two things: One - Most set owners don't know what their set can do, and two - that the local stations vastly underestimate the number of HD sets in place. The problem is that many people think their HD set is designed to show them DVDs not HD content and therefore don't know it can do even more than make that DVD look great and as a result don't demand HD from their local broadcasters.

I've been told in the past but can't get new reconfirmation that our ABC, FOX, and CBS will begin passing HD this spring and summer. From where I sit, with CBS-HD, ABC-HD from DirecTV and NBC-HD from WJAC I'm doing ok. I'd really like to get my waiver situation with WWCP sorted out so I can get the Superbowl but I don't watch much FOX so it's not a big deal for me.

I'm just using a $20 Radio Shack UHF only yagi and running it through a CM 7777 (or 7775, one of these models). I've got no idea on the part number anymore. If you want to receive WATM-DT and WTAJ-DT right now I would suggest something a little bigger so you have some margin. I almost never watch from the yagi and then only to check to see what's coming down the wire so I can't speak to its overall reliability. But receiving them today really doesn't do you any good as they're just SD.

I did have a CM 8-bay bowtie for a few months but it wasn't doing the job on WJAC-DT so I went to a more elaborate solution. My father now has that antenna on the other side of town. It's working great for him but WJAC-DT is still a problem there too.

It's important to remember that for WJAC-DT we are on the edge if not just beyond line-of-sight and according to some reception models we're getting troposcatter dominant reception which explains the variability in it. I'm hoping the extra 6 dB we'll see when WJAC-DT boosts their output helps out.
slykens is offline  
post #27 of 3336 Old 01-20-2005, 11:30 AM
Member
 
jmf243's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pine Grove Mills, PA
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anybody have Atlantic Broad Band in Altoona? If so, what HD are they currently passing down?
jmf243 is offline  
post #28 of 3336 Old 01-21-2005, 07:47 AM
Senior Member
 
tinyiota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by slykens
If you want HD for now you'll need to stick with satellite feeds. I feel like we're one of the most neglected markets HD wise, certainly in the top 100 markets, but then I remember tiny little markets probably have it worse.

And it just got worser for us.. With the updates to the SHVA in December, DTV is refusing to accept waviers from the TV stations if they have LiL in a market. I just talked to 3 different reps over the last 2 days in the HD eligibility department and they all refused to turn on CBS-HD for me, even though Kathy Smith and Channel 10 were kind enough to grant me a wavier.

The only consolation the DTV reps could offer was that DTV is going Mpeg4 with the new sats and will be doing HD in all the locals markets.. Of course we're #97 so it'll be a while for us.

Guess it's time to start seriously shopping for an antenna and amp.. Sigh.
tinyiota is offline  
post #29 of 3336 Old 01-27-2005, 11:21 PM
Senior Member
 
tinyiota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There is a rumor going around that ABC (WATM) is broadcasting a "decent" HD signal..

Can anyone confirm that?? It's been too cold for me to go outside and put up the antenna I bought.. Plus there's the snow..
tinyiota is offline  
post #30 of 3336 Old 01-28-2005, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
slykens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Originally posted by tinyiota
There is a rumor going around that ABC (WATM) is broadcasting a "decent" HD signal..

Heh, where did you hear this rumor?

During the day my small antenna isn't good enough to pull in WATM-DT, so i can't login to my system at home and try. But tonight I'll run a test on it and see what I get.

Last I knew they were passing 480i and this would be a very big surprise.
slykens is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off